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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
  • Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory

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It is threads like these that keep me coming back to b.net regulary. Awesome work OP.

  • 08.13.2010 4:54 PM PDT

"You are a good person, and people say nice things about you"

great thread...I never thought of Halo like that.

  • 08.15.2010 9:00 PM PDT
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Be nice to noobs..Remember even MLG players were noobs at one point.

Great Job my friend. Thanks for everything you did in this thread to educate us on Halo's theories. And I must compliment on you being so educated about the bible.

  • 08.15.2010 10:25 PM PDT

"Let the big man do his work"
"Look, Reach has been good to me, time has come to return the favor. Don't deny me this. Tell 'em to make it count." - Jorge 052
Terminus Est- Forward unto the end


Posted by: Pokezilla Linked
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
In terms of when the Religions showed up and also the way that the factions act within Halo... I always paralleled

God = Precursors
Jews; Jesus, Noah, etc. = Forerunners
Christians = The Covenant
Muslims = Humanity

The Covenant-Human war parallels the Crusades, with the Covenant (Christians) trying to re-take Forerunner relics from the humans.


Wait, you're meaning to say that Halo is anti-Christian? From what I read on Halopedia, it appears as though you're wrong.

Well boys and girls. That argument is best left out of this discussion. The creator of the thread put a lot of thought into his hypothesis and I beleive that all of you are entitled to your opinions. As to the quote above, I don't think he was saying that it's anti-Christian. As a matter of fact, You can interpret the Crusades either way. There were actually 9 different crusades. The first and second are seen as "The Crusades". The 1st when the European Christians went to take Jerusalem, and the 2nd when Saladin and his Saracens went to re-take Jerusalem. In this way, both of you are correct. However, it is very presumptuous to assume that he was remarking that Halo is steeped in anti-Christian rhetoric.

[Edited on 08.23.2010 4:40 PM PDT]

  • 08.23.2010 4:35 PM PDT

Good read.

  • 08.23.2010 5:31 PM PDT

"The Internet is a hostile and unforgiving place. Avoiding a flame war is like trying to walk unscathed through a minefield with a blindfold on. Likely it isn't going to happen."

OMX Mag, had a 17 page blow out on Reach. With a interview With Frank O' Connor about the community. He talked about this thread!
OT It really made me think about the way I play Halo.

  • 08.26.2010 12:32 PM PDT

"Let the big man do his work"
"Look, Reach has been good to me, time has come to return the favor. Don't deny me this. Tell 'em to make it count." - Jorge 052
Terminus Est- Forward unto the end


Posted by: Halflingforever
OMX Mag, had a 17 page blow out on Reach. With a interview With Frank O' Connor about the community. He talked about this thread!
OT It really made me think about the way I play Halo.

Yo thanks for the headsup! Can we get a link?

  • 08.26.2010 2:55 PM PDT

"Let the big man do his work"
"Look, Reach has been good to me, time has come to return the favor. Don't deny me this. Tell 'em to make it count." - Jorge 052
Terminus Est- Forward unto the end


Posted by: Vox SoIa

Posted by: AI carsaib
This thread does NOT deserve flames as the discussion is rather intelligent and on topic.


If by flames you mean criticism, then I would have to disagree. EVERYTHING deserves criticism especially dogmatic ideologies. It seems faith is the only thing not criticized these days and that is to bad....


Yes, Dogma should be questioned by any intelligent and rational person, but I think you stray from your intentions when you call religion a dogmatic ideologies. First off, the whole purpose of religion was to explain those things that we don't have understanding of. So it was with the Greeks, the Mesopatamians, the Chinese, the Indians, and every other ancient civilizaion. A great example is the question of "Is there a higher power?". Humans as a species can't stand uncertainty and chaos. We need to know things, this is why we are curious. Understand this, Religion was made to serve a purpose and those who fall under the spell of dogma that is a deviation from the intentions of the founders of said religion are not truly practicing religion. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but it has long been known that there are things that are not acceptable and are known to be gross fallacies in logical debate. As such, hypocrasy such as the kind you have unknowingly exercised in this thread is sickening to say the least. The belief that religion is a dogmatic ideology is in itself dogmatic. I refuse to believe that any truly logical person can fall victim to such dogma.

[Edited on 08.27.2010 2:38 PM PDT]

  • 08.27.2010 2:30 PM PDT

Hey, you're right, Frank definitely does talk about it as a Christian allegory! As far as I can tell, this is the primary means of talking about the subject on all of the big, bad internet. Thanks a lot for your contribution guys! People notice!

  • 08.27.2010 7:44 PM PDT

Most stories can find a branch to the bible. it being one of the best and oldest stories of all time. i believe in god dont call me a troll

  • 08.27.2010 7:54 PM PDT

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Posted by: Adam 36O
Hey, you're right, Frank definitely does talk about it as a Christian allegory! As far as I can tell, this is the primary means of talking about the subject on all of the big, bad internet. Thanks a lot for your contribution guys! People notice!
I can't believe this thread has lasted a year, good job.

I totally disagree with the theory that this is an allegory for the crusades with the Convenient representing the Christians. There are a number of holes in this argument. First, the Crusades were not a war of total religious fanaticism (the counter jihad on the other hand was), but it was more like a preemptive strike/ war of liberation. Crusaders were the medieval equivalent to neocons, where the saw themselves as liberators and killing on this war of liberation as an act of mercy (almost like American exceptionalism today).

The Convenient definitely parallel the ideological strain of Islam which viewed that the end of the world was imminent and the arrival of a crusader army was one of the signs. Some also saw Saladin as the warrior that would defeat the armies of Gog and Magog (akin to how the Arbiter was supposed to defeat the Humans).

I've attained these sources directly from the books The Oxford History of the Crusades (and also God's Battalions). I'm not in any way partial or inclined to believe in a religion, but I think the pluralistic view needed to be presented. I think in this way it can almost be discerned as a "Christian" allegory is almost like the Song of Roland, or other epic poems (Gawain and the Green Knight, Beowulf, even the allegory of St George) where a chivalrous Christian knight, the hero, defeats or remains steadfast against the hordes of a satanic force. I would note that like those epic poems, this story does follow the monomyth (as someoneelse mentioned in here), and Halo definitely follows Campbell's model.

You could also discern the franchise from the perspective of the Bhagavad Gita (an Indian Epic Poem describing an epic battle between good versus evil) and it's correlation with the Manhattan Project (the Halo rings?).


[Edited on 08.29.2010 3:19 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2010 3:15 AM PDT

Nice. That's some seriously insightful stuff, Cr4sh. You defintiely did your research. I definitely agree about the Covenant correlation to Islam. I mentioned their correlation to Judaism, but Islam and Judaism are so connected that it makes perfect sense to correlate them both. As for the other tales and fables you mentioned, many of those too were no doubt influenced by Christian culture, even if it is ancient Christian culture (particularly Gawain). Looks like Halo might be our allegory tale for the modern age!

  • 08.29.2010 7:08 AM PDT
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Very well put, it is cool how all of it fiys so nicely together.


-X

  • 08.30.2010 1:35 AM PDT

I am a practicing traditional Catholic.


Posted by: Adam 36O
As for the other tales and fables you mentioned, many of those too were no doubt influenced by Christian culture, even if it is ancient Christian culture (particularly Gawain).


Actually I'm glad you picked up on that last part Adam, many times people quote other religions and cultures and are amazed by their close similarities with Christianity but often there is very clear evidence that these cultures actually based their beliefs upon Christianity. For example the Vikings had a tale that one of their gods (Thor or Odin) nailed himself to the "life tree" in order to gain immortal life. Well I think it is very probably that the Vikings just took the idea from Christians that they came across (and likely killed). So I'm sure we can construe from this and other examples (I could give more if asked) that a lot of cultural beliefs and religions are actually taken from Christian teachings (hideously mashed up and contorted, but still based). Even pre-Christian (BC) faiths could easily have been derived from Jewish beliefs of the Old Testiment which of course was fulfilled and perfected by the New Testament. Just a thought. (takes history cap off and sits down exhausted)

JOIN THE SANGHEILI REVOLUTION AND PREPARE THIS WORLD FOR THEIR CONTROL!

  • 09.04.2010 1:02 AM PDT

question everything...truth has no pedigree

This is a pretty good analysis. The allegorical nature of the Halo saga is pretty obvious. Although, I think I would interpret things a bit differently.

  • 09.04.2010 10:22 AM PDT


Posted by: Magna117

Posted by: Adam 36O
As for the other tales and fables you mentioned, many of those too were no doubt influenced by Christian culture, even if it is ancient Christian culture (particularly Gawain).


Actually I'm glad you picked up on that last part Adam, many times people quote other religions and cultures and are amazed by their close similarities with Christianity but often there is very clear evidence that these cultures actually based their beliefs upon Christianity. For example the Vikings had a tale that one of their gods (Thor or Odin) nailed himself to the "life tree" in order to gain immortal life. Well I think it is very probably that the Vikings just took the idea from Christians that they came across (and likely killed). So I'm sure we can construe from this and other examples (I could give more if asked) that a lot of cultural beliefs and religions are actually taken from Christian teachings (hideously mashed up and contorted, but still based). Even pre-Christian (BC) faiths could easily have been derived from Jewish beliefs of the Old Testiment which of course was fulfilled and perfected by the New Testament. Just a thought. (takes history cap off and sits down exhausted)

JOIN THE SANGHEILI REVOLUTION AND PREPARE THIS WORLD FOR THEIR CONTROL!


As it is many things can be related. There are things that seem similar. If one has some history of religion before Christianity, one would see that even many of it's stories are not original. (i.e The Book of the Dead) Every now and then I come back to this topic and read. Adam it is a great topic and I hope it continues. If I find or think of other similarities that are not posted, I will of course add them.

  • 09.05.2010 8:41 PM PDT

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Good OP/Discussion. I'm glad to find it all summarized in one place. Whether or not the entire Halo Series is meant to be an allegory, there are definitely multiple Biblical connections/influences present, which being a Catholic, I think is pretty cool.

  • 09.05.2010 8:59 PM PDT
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Lulz.


Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
In terms of when the Religions showed up and also the way that the factions act within Halo... I always paralleled

God = Precursors
Jews; Jesus, Noah, etc. = Forerunners
Christians = The Covenant
Muslims = Humanity

The Covenant-Human war parallels the Crusades, with the Covenant (Christians) trying to re-take Forerunner relics from the humans.


I would say that the covenant are a more muslim group.Through the use of halos they plan on firing them and becoming gods,though if you knew the the truth you would say the covenant are on suicidal path to kill themselves in order to become a higher form of beings.which is similar to the muslim religion

  • 09.05.2010 10:18 PM PDT

I am a practicing traditional Catholic.

Posted by: WT NITE

As it is many things can be related. There are things that seem similar. If one has some history of religion before Christianity, one would see that even many of it's stories are not original. (i.e The Book of the Dead).


This is not really surprising. Man's natural reason will lead him to hold certain universal truths e.g a belief in a supreme creator(s). It is more than likely that putting such beliefs into metaphorical forms will generate similarities. The same essential truth can be recognised by all at different periods without negating the fact that this partial revelation is simply a preparation for the full revelation which came via first Judaism and then Christianity. If one views early rather clumsy attempts at using man's natural reason as preparing him for full understanding by direct revelation than the issue is resolved. It may seem natural to say that many faiths are not "original", even Christianity. On the other hand if one has faith then saying it is not "original" would be saying and believing that it is a mere story or fiction which was based upon previous "authors" ideas. This is not the case among the faithful and if older religions appear to have vague similarities (and often it is only vague) with the true faith than this is because God allowed them to receive some glimmer of truth that they then clumsily mis-interpreted. I would add that Christianity as a truth did not begin with the birth of Christ because unlike acient pagan faiths Christianity has a legitimate origin and unbroken link with the revalation and promise given to the parents of the human race Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. Furthermore God's revelations continued via Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob etc and men of faith were waiting for Christ centuries before Our Lord was actually born. Origins that religions such as Buddhism lack. It is a shame that modern man tends to abandon the little that even ancient pagan cultures had and that is the recognition of *some* creator. Ultimately it will always come down to each individual's receptiveness to truth.

JOIN THE SANGHEILI REVOLUTION AND PREPARE THIS WORLD FOR THEIR CONTROL!

[Edited on 09.06.2010 1:34 AM PDT]

  • 09.06.2010 1:25 AM PDT


Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
In terms of when the Religions showed up and also the way that the factions act within Halo... I always paralleled

God = Precursors
Jews; Jesus, Noah, etc. = Forerunners
Christians = The Covenant
Muslims = Humanity

The Covenant-Human war parallels the Crusades, with the Covenant (Christians) trying to re-take Forerunner relics from the humans.



THANK YOU!.....Im Muslim btw...

  • 09.12.2010 6:52 PM PDT
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Wow. this is AMAZING! My Bible teacher would be proud btw.

  • 09.13.2010 6:06 PM PDT

Truly great work here and good use of references from the Bible. I think this is the best and greatest comparison of a video game to that of religious text.

  • 09.20.2010 4:30 PM PDT


Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
In terms of when the Religions showed up and also the way that the factions act within Halo... I always paralleled

God = Precursors
Jews; Jesus, Noah, etc. = Forerunners
Christians = The Covenant
Muslims = Humanity

The Covenant-Human war parallels the Crusades, with the Covenant (Christians) trying to re-take Forerunner relics from the humans.


Then who, or what is the Gravemind?

  • 09.22.2010 1:46 AM PDT

I'm going to go off topic here but, whatever. i think halo should have its own college course like harry potter and zombie lore...it would kinda focus on the religious aspects of the game itself and the effects on society and so on and so forth....just saying

  • 09.26.2010 6:03 PM PDT