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  • Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
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You trust halopedia, I website where everyone can edit?

  • 07.27.2011 4:01 PM PDT
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"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

-2 Timothy 4:7


Posted by: grey101
I am with anton, i don't wanna start anything with that statement...


Well you guys posted, so if you didn't want to start anything you shouldn't have posted. So, what's wrong with that statement? People can't go around blaming religion for what's wrong in the world. That's absurd and quite irresponsible. Sure, you have the choice to ignore the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, etc. but please don't tell me that these texts are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world. People need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the texts. What's in the texts themselves is a different issue. That's the part you can decide to listen to or ignore. Responsibility is what we're talking about.

Is the Koran responsible for 9/11? Absolutely not. It's the Radical Muslims that take it upon themselves to murder innocent people. Sure, Muhammed can be seen as quite hostile, but he IN NO WAY is responsible for the choices the Radicals make. That's just silly.

The reason why I went down this road was because I skimmed ROBERTO's post and decided I would chime in.

So, if you're going to blame anybody for this path we're on go ahead and blame ROBERTO for stating his opinion and then go ahead and blame Adam and the mods for allowing other people to digress in this thread as well.

  • 07.27.2011 5:47 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Awx
Well you guys posted, so if you didn't want to start anything you shouldn't have posted. So, what's wrong with that statement?

Okay:

If you think religion destroys people, that's basically saying that people have no free choice
No it is not. People have a choice. They have the choice to commit atrocity X or they have the choice not to commit atrocity X. Faith provided the source of the cognitive bias needed to influence their choice.

Posted by: Awx
People can't go around blaming religion for what's wrong in the world. That's absurd and quite irresponsible. Sure, you have the choice to ignore the Bible, the Torah, the Koran, etc. but please don't tell me that these texts are responsible for everything that's wrong in the world.

They should not blame every wrong in the world on religion, but a great deal of the wrongs are due to it. These texts encourage belief without evidence, (Faith) which cannot be falsified, tested, touched, seen or heard. It is driven by confirmation Bias and the appeals to emotion which makes it a highly capricious fertile ground for extremism. The very nature of religion is to treat faith as a virtue of virtues, which makes reason and evidence based motives secondary. It sets society up for the potential to commit horrible acts.

The very nature of faith is bad, not just the end products of what a few extremists may happen to do.

Posted by: Awx
People need to take responsibility for their own actions instead of blaming the texts. What's in the texts themselves is a different issue. That's the part you can decide to listen to or ignore. Responsibility is what we're talking about.

You speak as if people are choosing to believe or not. You cannot choose to believe in something. These people who choose to commit these acts do so because they have the religious tenets there in which they believe are true and absolute. They believe that what they are doing is righteous. They believe that belief without evidence is the greatest virtue.

To them, what is in these texts is holy, absolute and the word of God. Of course they are going to obey them without question. Without question in the sense that they feel they have no place or option to choose otherwise.

So in a sense your first statement is sort of true, but not with the implication that Human Nature is to blame. It is because of Religion that these people feel they actually have no choice.

I'm really not going to bog down the thread anymore. This group is the place for this level of discussion.

  • 07.27.2011 6:50 PM PDT
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"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."

-2 Timothy 4:7

"No it is not. People have a choice. They have the choice to commit atrocity X or they have the choice not to commit atrocity X. Faith provided the source of the cognitive bias needed to influence their choice."

That's exactly what I was saying but you couldn't connect the dots. So you agree with me that faith itself does not cause people to do what they do? I'm glad we're on the same page.

"They should not blame every wrong in the world on religion, but a great deal of the wrongs are due to it. These texts encourage belief without evidence, (Faith) which cannot be falsified, tested, touched, seen or heard. It is driven by confirmation Bias and the appeals to emotion which makes it a highly capricious fertile ground for extremism. The very nature of religion is to treat faith as a virtue of virtues, which makes reason and evidence based motives secondary. It sets society up for the potential to commit horrible acts."

What wrongs in the world are due to the Bible, itself, for example? If you think the Bible encourages belief without evidence you clearly have not taken a course in Bible studies or have not even read the Bible, period. If that's the case, you are clearly ignorant of the Bible's purpose. We are using the Bible as an example, here, just so you know. Faith is not the only power man has to attain salvation, but his mind (knowledge), his soul (conscience), his heart (morality). You're clearly a materialist. Materialists will agree that their existence is ultimately in vain because they have no higher ground to adhere to. Socrates and Plato, unlike Aristotle, believed in a set of universal, objective set of moral standards instituted by a high power (namely God). These standards gave man a reason, a purpose, to exist. Otherwise, are we here to just smell the roses? What a useless and meaningless life ...

"The very nature of faith is bad, not just the end products of what a few extremists may happen to do."

Please explain to me, logically, how the very nature of faith is bad. You cannot expect to post a ridiculous, ignorant statement such as that and walk away. Outrageous. Faith gives man purpose in life. Faith gives man a reason to become stronger and to grow.

"You speak as if people are choosing to believe or not. You cannot choose to believe in something. These people who choose to commit these acts do so because they have the religious tenets there in which they believe are true and absolute. They believe that what they are doing is righteous. They believe that belief without evidence is the greatest virtue."

People do believe or not. It's as simple as that. I cannot choose to believe in something? Did you really just type that? You're right, the Koran took over the hearts and minds of the terrorists serving within Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is possessed. They have no control over what they say, what they think, or what they do. If that's the case, then why punish them for what they do? They can't help it, so why should we discriminate again the "mentally insane?" I can give you numerous scriptures in the Bible that gives credence to God's existence, not to mention numerous archaeological discoveries that support His existence as well. If you don't want to believe that, well, then that's an entirely different story.

"To them, what is in these texts is holy, absolute and the word of God. Of course they are going to obey them without question. Without question in the sense that they feel they have no place or option to choose otherwise."

Yes, again, you're right. "Without question" must mean that people are being mind controlled by what's in the Koran. I wish I could be mind-controlled by the Koran, as well. I wonder what that feels like?

"So in a sense your first statement is sort of true, but not with the implication that Human Nature is to blame. It is because of Religion that these people feel they actually have no choice."

What do you define as "Human Nature?" People aren't responsible for their own actions, anymore? Why have laws, then? Feeling like you have no choice and actually having no choice are two totally separate things. DO NOT get them confused.

"I'm really not going to bog down the thread anymore. This group is the place for this level of discussion."

Yet you posted, again. Please stop with these types of statements. If you really felt that way, you wouldn't have posted to begin with and would have PM'ed me, instead. You can't expect to make those kinds of statements and just get away with it. I will not let you. You responded to me and now I'm going to respond to you. We can follow the origins of this digression if you'd like to go down that road. If that's the case, blame everyone else before me that digressed, specifically Roberto, and then finally me. I want to be here when you do that.

Food for thought: If you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in Satan. If that's the case, you don't believe in good or evil. Morals come from a higher being (namely God) just as very well known, educated, and intelligent scientists and philosophers - Galileo, Newton, Socrates, Plato, and Kierkegaard (just to name a few) - would also agree.

[Edited on 07.27.2011 10:42 PM PDT]

  • 07.27.2011 10:39 PM PDT

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

We'll continue this on PM's then.

  • 07.28.2011 11:02 AM PDT
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Damn good ideas man . Keep it up !!!

  • 07.30.2011 10:43 AM PDT

"Let the big man do his work"
"Look, Reach has been good to me, time has come to return the favor. Don't deny me this. Tell 'em to make it count." - Jorge 052
Terminus Est- Forward unto the end


Posted by: Awx
Food for thought: If you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in Satan. If that's the case, you don't believe in good or evil. Morals come from a higher being (namely God) just as very well known, educated, and intelligent scientists and philosophers - Galileo, Newton, Socrates, Plato, and Kierkegaard (just to name a few) - would also agree.


Okay. You had me somewhat agreeing with you up until this point. Your line of reasoning in this statement is flawed and your use of these philosophers' names as a false testimony is both falacious and pretentious. From a religious standpoint, you are partially correct about morals. In the book of Genesis in the Old Testament, it says that Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowlege and gained from the knowlege of good and evil (Morality). Since then, however, every human has been born with this concept ingrained deeply in their Psychy. However, Many bible scholars look at the Old testament from an allegorical standpoint. It is almost certain that most of the various characters in the Old Testament never existed and that their stories are used as teaching tools for the concept of morality. The story of Adam and Eve, for example, is probably an allegory for the evolution of humankind from "Cave men".

Furthermore, Satan is not Evil itself, but an embodiment of Evil. The dual concepts of Good and Evil vastly predate the Hebrew faith, never mind its child religion, Christianity. Satan is portrayed in religious texts as a tempter. Someone who constantly tries to convince people to commit evil acts, but he is certainly not the actual sin or crime that is commited, is he?

Lastly I want to tell both you and Anton that Human Nature IS to blame. Human Nature is steeped in the concept of duality. Without Evil, how can you tell what is good? Religion is simply another mouthpiece for the concept of Morality. As humans, we are naturally fallible, this allows outside influences to distort or manipulate our moral compasses. Humans commit Evil acts because they believe them to be good. There is no such creature that does Evil for Evil's sake. These factors allow the good teachings of religion to be distorted by thier followers, whether it be intentional or unintentional.
Religion is no more to blame for this than Morality is. For in many ways, they are one and the same.

[Edited on 08.01.2011 5:20 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2011 5:18 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

I've been saying it for weeks, the story so far in Cryptum represents the beginning of Genesis.

  • 08.01.2011 5:24 PM PDT


Posted by: Awx
Food for thought: If you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in Satan. If that's the case, you don't believe in good or evil. Morals come from a higher being (namely God) just as very well known, educated, and intelligent scientists and philosophers - Galileo, Newton, Socrates, Plato, and Kierkegaard (just to name a few) - would also agree.

Relativistic morality disagrees with you.

  • 08.01.2011 5:27 PM PDT

another dead ailen!

religion...in the fourms? I THINK NOT! *permaban

  • 08.01.2011 5:28 PM PDT

@accordingto343

Your one stop shop for all of 343's fabulous errors and ridiculous notions in the Halo lore.

Posted by: rey s1119
religion...in the fourms? I THINK NOT! *permaban

The thread has been around for 3 years, could you be any slower with that statement?

  • 08.01.2011 5:30 PM PDT

jesus is awesome

  • 08.02.2011 2:58 PM PDT


Posted by: Pokezilla Linked
I agree. I never thought about the "It's finished." part. Nice job.

  • 08.02.2011 3:17 PM PDT

I like this

  • 08.02.2011 3:19 PM PDT

No, I think it's just getting started. Lucky me...

Very well written, and deep. Although I may not believe in god per say, it is a flawless parallel.

  • 08.03.2011 2:56 PM PDT

He makes a very good point. Other than that the entire thread was well written.

  • 08.03.2011 4:03 PM PDT

Dude, in the time it took you to write that, you could have been playing Halo. Also, who cares? Everyone knows that Halo is full of Christian references.


lol 666th reply.

[Edited on 08.04.2011 3:41 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2011 3:31 PM PDT

The Ban Hammer is all that was and all that will be! The Ban Hammer is time and space, life and death! The Ban Hammer can see into your mind! The Ban Hammer can see into your soouull....

I like how I saw this thread and the title, and next to the title it had 666 comments...too bad I just ruined that, lol

  • 08.04.2011 4:12 PM PDT


Posted by: Billy Vandergaw
I like how I saw this thread and the title, and next to the title it had 666 comments...too bad I just ruined that, lol

I know, right.

[Edited on 08.04.2011 4:22 PM PDT]

  • 08.04.2011 4:22 PM PDT

Check out my Fileshare.
The contents of my Fileshare include:
Lockdown
Challenger

This was a good read. Thanks.

  • 08.05.2011 11:26 AM PDT
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Good point on halo.
Even tho I don't believe in god and think that religion is made for money I still like this thread.

  • 08.05.2011 12:12 PM PDT

A MAN CHOOSES, A SLAVE OBEYS.

The covenant are the corrupt authority using religion and their blind faith to manipulate other species into committing genocides. The UNSC are the rational secularists that will kick their ass.

[Edited on 08.05.2011 8:06 PM PDT]

  • 08.05.2011 8:06 PM PDT

Way TL;DR

  • 08.09.2011 8:29 AM PDT

halo 4 is fun why u playing number 3

This entirety is just theory. Everything can almost be entailed or connected to the bible becuase people want to believe it. I mean basically anything can be connected if you think about it for a little while. I could connect Obama to a school teacher becuase they both try to tell a lesson to Americans or I could connect Osama Bin Laden to Moses becuase their trying to lead their people to freedom and conquer those who were conquering them by leading them to somewhere. I could connect a sewing machine to god becuase i sewing machine takes needles and threads a string into a warm and fuzzy shirt and people believe god makes things out of thin air into things that never existed.I could connect narnia to baptism because once theyve entered the door, they became grownups and were enlightened with an entireley new world.

Honestly give it up... Its a videogame. You can connect anything you want to anything. You can especially connect halo becuase it uses a religion thats fighting to take over the universe. Thats what every religion is so its easy to connect it. I mean if i was talking about making a religion you bet your ass i could connect it to taking things from other places becuase their all the same. An imagination that never existed but was created through the human mind into a belief or concept, but in Halos case it was just a videogame. Get over this and if your Christian and believe in the bible then halo would be a sin by this becuase youve been killing Christians...

  • 08.10.2011 10:46 AM PDT