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"I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith."
-2 Timothy 4:7
"No it is not. People have a choice. They have the choice to commit atrocity X or they have the choice not to commit atrocity X. Faith provided the source of the cognitive bias needed to influence their choice."
That's exactly what I was saying but you couldn't connect the dots. So you agree with me that faith itself does not cause people to do what they do? I'm glad we're on the same page.
"They should not blame every wrong in the world on religion, but a great deal of the wrongs are due to it. These texts encourage belief without evidence, (Faith) which cannot be falsified, tested, touched, seen or heard. It is driven by confirmation Bias and the appeals to emotion which makes it a highly capricious fertile ground for extremism. The very nature of religion is to treat faith as a virtue of virtues, which makes reason and evidence based motives secondary. It sets society up for the potential to commit horrible acts."
What wrongs in the world are due to the Bible, itself, for example? If you think the Bible encourages belief without evidence you clearly have not taken a course in Bible studies or have not even read the Bible, period. If that's the case, you are clearly ignorant of the Bible's purpose. We are using the Bible as an example, here, just so you know. Faith is not the only power man has to attain salvation, but his mind (knowledge), his soul (conscience), his heart (morality). You're clearly a materialist. Materialists will agree that their existence is ultimately in vain because they have no higher ground to adhere to. Socrates and Plato, unlike Aristotle, believed in a set of universal, objective set of moral standards instituted by a high power (namely God). These standards gave man a reason, a purpose, to exist. Otherwise, are we here to just smell the roses? What a useless and meaningless life ...
"The very nature of faith is bad, not just the end products of what a few extremists may happen to do."
Please explain to me, logically, how the very nature of faith is bad. You cannot expect to post a ridiculous, ignorant statement such as that and walk away. Outrageous. Faith gives man purpose in life. Faith gives man a reason to become stronger and to grow.
"You speak as if people are choosing to believe or not. You cannot choose to believe in something. These people who choose to commit these acts do so because they have the religious tenets there in which they believe are true and absolute. They believe that what they are doing is righteous. They believe that belief without evidence is the greatest virtue."
People do believe or not. It's as simple as that. I cannot choose to believe in something? Did you really just type that? You're right, the Koran took over the hearts and minds of the terrorists serving within Al-Qaeda. Al-Qaeda is possessed. They have no control over what they say, what they think, or what they do. If that's the case, then why punish them for what they do? They can't help it, so why should we discriminate again the "mentally insane?" I can give you numerous scriptures in the Bible that gives credence to God's existence, not to mention numerous archaeological discoveries that support His existence as well. If you don't want to believe that, well, then that's an entirely different story.
"To them, what is in these texts is holy, absolute and the word of God. Of course they are going to obey them without question. Without question in the sense that they feel they have no place or option to choose otherwise."
Yes, again, you're right. "Without question" must mean that people are being mind controlled by what's in the Koran. I wish I could be mind-controlled by the Koran, as well. I wonder what that feels like?
"So in a sense your first statement is sort of true, but not with the implication that Human Nature is to blame. It is because of Religion that these people feel they actually have no choice."
What do you define as "Human Nature?" People aren't responsible for their own actions, anymore? Why have laws, then? Feeling like you have no choice and actually having no choice are two totally separate things. DO NOT get them confused.
"I'm really not going to bog down the thread anymore. This group is the place for this level of discussion."
Yet you posted, again. Please stop with these types of statements. If you really felt that way, you wouldn't have posted to begin with and would have PM'ed me, instead. You can't expect to make those kinds of statements and just get away with it. I will not let you. You responded to me and now I'm going to respond to you. We can follow the origins of this digression if you'd like to go down that road. If that's the case, blame everyone else before me that digressed, specifically Roberto, and then finally me. I want to be here when you do that.
Food for thought: If you don't believe in God, then you don't believe in Satan. If that's the case, you don't believe in good or evil. Morals come from a higher being (namely God) just as very well known, educated, and intelligent scientists and philosophers - Galileo, Newton, Socrates, Plato, and Kierkegaard (just to name a few) - would also agree.
[Edited on 07.27.2011 10:42 PM PDT]