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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
  • Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory

Godspeed.


Posted by: xXAmozonessXx
Few years late but A for effort.

One thing to note is that the connotations of the number 7 are generally something like 'perfection' or 'the divine.'


Or the Seven Spirits of God.

And while we're on it...

  • 09.10.2011 5:19 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Seven Celtic Nations too.

  • 09.10.2011 7:56 PM PDT


Posted by: jack0fhearts
Posted by: Righteous Fury19
If Halo is a Christian/Biblical allegory then what is the underlining message? what is the moral message? 'Might is Right' perhaps? or 'an eye for an eye'?

This is what I have been getting at; there is no underlying "moral message." It's a story of survival and war. Are there lessons to be learned? Several. But it doesn't have one definitive "this is what this game is saying." It's not like movies such as (first that came to mind,) The Craft, where the message is not to abuse power because the consequences are very real.

Is it fine to see your faiths' iconography and parallels in Halo? In some instances it's hard not to. But it is not a game with one declarative message.

EDIT: And before anyone gets bent out of shape, this is not said in spite. I am not angry, offended, or "trolling." Read the above as in a calm voice.


So? Just because the author didn't have any clear intent or moral message to give does not mean a particular work is not allegorical, and if someone does call it allegory, so what? Just because one person views it as allegorical does not mean that they think it's absolute and the only meaning or application that can be found, because often that isn't the case, even in works that are intentionally written as allegory.

And that verse from Revelation is actually quite applicable to John. It's heavily implied that John was the first Spartan, he was the first that Doctor Halsey personally interviewed and assigned to the Spartan Project, so he is technically the first Spartan. Likewise he is technically also the last as all of the other Spartan IIs that we currently know of are either washouts and thus not really Spartans, or they are outright MIA or dead. So he technically is the last as well. Being numbered 117 also really doesn't have anything to do with it as not all those 150 candidates were accepted, Halsey wanted to interview them in person so she could pick 75 out of the 150 that she thought were best suited for the project. Which is why the graduated Spartans have such randomly numbered callsigns.

I also don't mean any offense or mean to really intone any anger or aggression in my post. I'm just providing my thoughts for civil and intelligent debate.

[Edited on 09.10.2011 8:04 PM PDT]

  • 09.10.2011 8:03 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: OrderedComa
So? Just because the author didn't have any clear intent or moral message to give does not mean a particular work is not allegorical, and if someone does call it allegory, so what?

I don't really care if people see it as a Christian allegory, it doesn't bother me usually. But I have met the minor few who insist that Halo is a "Christian message" game. All I'm getting at is that while the allegories are there, they aren't there, if you get the meaning. To try and clarify, the Forerunner architect of the Ark Installation isn't named Noah, but it's an obvious reference to the Hebrew tale.

Posted by: OrderedComa
And that verse from Revelation is actually quite applicable to John...Likewise he is technically also the last as all of the other Spartan IIs that we currently know of are either washouts and thus not really Spartans, or they are outright MIA or dead.

Not really. The dates don't match up for John to have been the "first." He was Halsey's favorite, yes, but I have a feeling only because he was the main character of the first game. A hero needs back-story. Spartan Candidates were inspected on dates from 2511 to 2517, John was interviewed in 2517. So there were six years where they did nothing? Sounds too much like a college freshman before mid-terms.

John is also not the last Spartan, as there are several Spartan II's still alive. We know this, he knows this, ONI knows this. Only in the first game is it implied that he's the "last Spartan." He may be one of the few still active, but there are more. Hence, the verse isn't applicable.

  • 09.10.2011 10:03 PM PDT

You know, for all of the stupid dumbasses who keep praising this dude for body of text (which is quite of feat) need to go post somewhere else. This dude meant to have a serious converstion about this topic and instead he got a bunch a praise he didn't want just because he is a good writer. If you cant something about this thread topic, then F yourselfs you stupid bastards.

Anyway, ya I totally agree with you on this one.

They have put John-117 on a pedestal to make him look like the saviour of Humanity. Honestly all of the paraells between Old Catholic as well as New Baptist religious views and that of the Halo Series are quite obvious in there own... to the intellegent eye I mean.

I originally thought that the center of the religious views were that of the Covenant reigion. Over time however, I began to see the religious paraells for the fictional Human race in the Halo series and the non-fictional human religion.

It is not as if, however that the religious paraells are that hard to locate. Some of them , in fact are thrown right into our faces.

The allegory that this has arisen has not without a price in the religous community, however. As a matter of fact, at my local church and some churches in the local area have warned people not to play games with their own religious timelines such as the Halo series. The minister at one the churches in my town explained this to me, as at first I did not understand.

He said that the primary reason for such heresy to play such games is because of the fact that they suggest other religious views. He even used Halo as an example. They advised to not Halo because it suggested that an ancient alien race was responsible for all creation.

I thought this over many times, then realized that the creation of the fictional Halo universe was a huge paraell to the alledged creation of our own universe. Doesn't count as an alien if he created all life. Wouldn't he possess the makeup of all life in the universe. Then the other similar paraell hit me. The precursors were described as being there whilst not being there. Meaning that were ghost like in their own way. Isn't this the same that we deescribe our own God. Not as a physical creature whilst being a physical creature at the same time.

If you were to have the intellegence to see it, then you could probaly find religious paraells in many fictional works.

  • 09.11.2011 12:55 AM PDT

"Let the big man do his work"
"Look, Reach has been good to me, time has come to return the favor. Don't deny me this. Tell 'em to make it count." - Jorge 052
Terminus Est- Forward unto the end


Posted by: xAwesome Saucex


You seem to be a rather intelligent fellow, so let me give you some philosophical food for thought. I vehemently disagree with your minister's belief that such games are heresy. It sounds ( and do not mistake my tone for condescending) as if he and you are probably Babtists. That aside, such beliefs are the reason why us Christians are stereotyped as fire and brimstone, bigot Evangelists. The idea that there is only one correct way to worship the higher being and that all other beliefs are wrong is highly ignorant and actually contradictive of Christian doctrine. If God is so loving, so willing to forgive your sins if only you ask for forgiveness, then how does it make sense for him to condemn those who interpret the Bible differently than you do, or praise him by a different name (Allah, Yahweh, etc.). Jesus preaches tolerance of other beliefs, so a Minister of Christ who claims that to play a video game, which is COMPLETELY fictional, is heresy because such fiction does not line up with his own beliefs is highly intolerant. I have read the Koran, The works of Confucious, The doctrines of Buddha, and have even started to research Wiccan beliefs. So believe me when I say that you can be a staunch believer in Christianity without condemning other beliefs. On the contrary, it is a testament to one's strength of faith if he can observeother beliefs while still maintaining his own. I know that I'm kind of ranting here, so forgive me. If you have any questions, Feel free to PM me.

[Edited on 09.11.2011 9:15 AM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 9:13 AM PDT


Posted by: jack0fhearts
Posted by: OrderedComa
So? Just because the author didn't have any clear intent or moral message to give does not mean a particular work is not allegorical, and if someone does call it allegory, so what?

I don't really care if people see it as a Christian allegory, it doesn't bother me usually. But I have met the minor few who insist that Halo is a "Christian message" game. All I'm getting at is that while the allegories are there, they aren't there, if you get the meaning. To try and clarify, the Forerunner architect of the Ark Installation isn't named Noah, but it's an obvious reference to the Hebrew tale.

Posted by: OrderedComa
And that verse from Revelation is actually quite applicable to John...Likewise he is technically also the last as all of the other Spartan IIs that we currently know of are either washouts and thus not really Spartans, or they are outright MIA or dead.

Not really. The dates don't match up for John to have been the "first." He was Halsey's favorite, yes, but I have a feeling only because he was the main character of the first game. A hero needs back-story. Spartan Candidates were inspected on dates from 2511 to 2517, John was interviewed in 2517. So there were six years where they did nothing? Sounds too much like a college freshman before mid-terms.

John is also not the last Spartan, as there are several Spartan II's still alive. We know this, he knows this, ONI knows this. Only in the first game is it implied that he's the "last Spartan." He may be one of the few still active, but there are more. Hence, the verse isn't applicable.


Yeah, I get what you mean, I think what you're saying is basically that while some symbolism or what can be read as allegory may be there, it's not necessarily something deliberately put in by the creators of the story/series. Is that right?

They may have been observed all throughout that time, but none of them were personally inspected by Halsey until 2517, and what I got from the opening chapters of TFoR was that John was the first candidate that Halsey personally inspected and thus the first to be officially cleared for the project. I didn't say that they did nothing between 2511 and 2517, it's implied from TFoR that non of the candidates were officially selected as members of the program until Halsey had approved them, and as she felt she needed to see each candidate in person before doing so. That's why I am saying John is technically the first, because he was the first Halsey interviewed and approved for the project.

I guess you missed the "technically" in the part about calling him the last as well. As I said, and this is from an in universe perspective, by Halo 3 Master Chief is the last Spartan again as all of the others have been killed or are actually MIA.

  • 09.11.2011 12:11 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: OrderedComa
Yeah, I get what you mean, I think what you're saying is basically that while some symbolism or what can be read as allegory may be there, it's not necessarily something deliberately put in by the creators of the story/series. Is that right?

Precisely. :)

Posted by: OrderedComa
That's why I am saying John is technically the first, because he was the first Halsey interviewed and approved for the project.

I guess you missed the "technically" in the part about calling him the last as well. As I said, and this is from an in universe perspective, by Halo 3 Master Chief is the last Spartan again as all of the others have been killed or are actually MIA.

But see, being MIA would mean that they are still out there, especially since we know them to be alive. The fact that John is not the last Spartan - for me - shatters any relevance to the Bible passage.

More so, looking at this from a biblical perspective, the term is "The Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end," right?
John is not the beginning of the Spartan Project, the first subject of ORION is. Both individuals cannot be the end of the Spartan Project, whoever is the last Spartan produced will be, whether it is a Spartan III or IV or what have you. John would not be the "Alpha and Omega" of the Spartan II Project either, as he did not start it. Whoever on ONI - or even Halsey - would be this "Alpha and Omega." They were the literal creation and eventually termination of the Spartan project, whether it be the project as a whole or the Spartan II's. They funded it's creation, and they terminated it's funding to effectively end it.

  • 09.11.2011 12:26 PM PDT

Posted by: FaJiTa TuEsDaY
only eat one small snack a week to save money on food and just have water toilet and lights to save money thats my plan

Though the Earth is dying we must enrich her body, for the ground we tread is hφly.

I'm a lion in a world where everybody's content with being cats. ☥

Posted by: Spazpuma
Posted by: xXAmozonessXx
One thing to note is that the connotations of the number 7 are generally something like 'perfection' or 'the divine.'
Or the Seven Spirits of God.

And while we're on it...
Uh, yeah, those exist because of the connotations.. Umbrella factor and all, you know.

  • 09.11.2011 12:45 PM PDT

Nice read. It sounds like something I read once... oh yay, The Bible.

[Edited on 09.11.2011 1:03 PM PDT]

  • 09.11.2011 1:02 PM PDT

Progo, Shrew, Chryso, all are the same.

I've always thought that it was, after all, the flood lives to distort, it cannot create, the same applies to evil/sin/satan in this world.

I'm not one of those people who believes in shredding pages of the bible with computers to get a prophecy about the world trade centers, but the bible touches on every subject in a manner that makes it apply to every walk of life, every person, and every belief, whether or not you are a christian this is obviously true just by reading the New Testament. so it is perfect for the subtext of a plot.

Also perhaps the Prophets in the Halo universe reflect the belief in created things, above what created them, as they no nothing about the forerunners, like the humans do.

In the Bible it states man is made in Gods image, Guilty spark seems to think MC is a forerunner, showing that humans must be very much like the forerunners, but perhaps that is another idea for another thread! :)

  • 09.22.2011 1:09 PM PDT

HELL OX77

good job., i all ready know that but good job dude

  • 09.22.2011 1:12 PM PDT

Progo, Shrew, Chryso, all are the same.

As I once heard a christian speaker say to a crowd of young people, "I love a game of halo 3!" buthe then went on to say that we could also be doing greater things with our computer skillz, anyhow I thought it was funny lol!

  • 09.22.2011 1:15 PM PDT

Halo 3 ODST is on the way and I am extremely excited. You should pre-order today to be able to play as Sargent Johnson. Im going tolink my gamertag to this account soon. In the meantime my gamertang is FA18FA22.

Okay, first of all, wow. That was very well written and you stated your point and backed it up flawlessly. So for that I applaud you. But the references to the bible in Halo are quite clear. I mean, something even as simple as using the Ark to escape the Flood is a quite obvious reference. I'm sure Bungie knew about all these things when they were writing Halo but in the end it's all about how deep you want to go into the story. Some people just play games for the fun of it. I do that too, but I do look for a good story in a game and I love Halo's story. Although it has many references to the bible in the game and I'm Buddhist, I still love it. But any who, great job I'm sure you did a lot of research to write this so well. Just keep doin what you're doin. We need more gamers like you!

  • 09.27.2011 9:46 PM PDT

Yay yuh!!!!!

that... or bungie just made a game up and it was a huge hit and ten made the story deeper. kinda like christianity...

  • 09.28.2011 8:41 AM PDT

Can't touch my awesomeness!!!!

not a bad thread, but be carefull, the internet is filled with trolls.

Besides that, good job putting this together and the various tie-ins are suprisingly close, but i dont think of the Forerunners as evil, they mearly wanted to save humanity and all of sentient life in the galaxy from the flood, but they sacrificed themselves in order to fulfill this. They left everything they made to the humans(reclaimers).

  • 10.01.2011 2:04 AM PDT

Can't touch my awesomeness!!!!

true, but Bungie has placed 7 everywhere, they're kinda crazy about the number 7...

  • 10.01.2011 2:08 AM PDT

He who cannot command himself should obey. And many can command themselves, but much is still lacking before they can obey themselves.
--Thus Spoke Zarathustra

You're reading into something that isn't there.

Christ says, "Father, why have you forsaken me?" That doesn't "line up" with Halo at all. Master Chief doesn't die as a sacrifice, he sleeps. Again, has nothing to do with Christ's death and resurrection.

  • 10.05.2011 7:01 PM PDT

If you love Jesus and wanna talk about it I could care less. As long as you do it where it's appropriate. There is a time and a place for everything and this is not it.

  • 10.05.2011 11:09 PM PDT

Im an athiest but this post was awesome.

Master Chief Jesus.

  • 10.06.2011 9:27 AM PDT

JESUS IS MY MASTER CHIEF!
When jumping feet first into the battle, remember to grab your gun!
One shot and they're dead,miss and you best be running.
Shooting five elites in a row is easy, but make sure you hear "Killing Spree."
Wake me when you need me, but I might blow your darn head off if you do at four in the morning!

Another thing is, Master chief destroys the flood and there is an ark which destroys some of them, in the Bible Noah saves humanity with an ark from a flood, so Master chief is like Noah


JESUS IS MY MASTER CHIEF!!!

  • 10.06.2011 10:24 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Yeah, except John-117 isn't a drunk, didn't build the Ark, and it's partially unknown if the Flood is entirely defeated. In fact, I would bet money that they're not. The Gravemind was defeated, yes, but that doesn't mean every trace of the Flood is gone from the universe.

More ridiculous parallels... /le sigh

  • 10.06.2011 10:34 AM PDT

"We cheat Death from his rightful victory. No one can defeat us. We are glad to plunge feet first into hell in the knowledge that we will rise again."

Really interesting...

[Edited on 10.06.2011 12:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.06.2011 12:12 PM PDT

Okay, listen, we should get our stories straight, all right? If anyone asks, and no one's gonna ask, don't worry, but if anyone asks, tell them as far as you know, the last time you checked, everyone looked pretty much alive, all right? Not dead.

My Stats And Armor

Hmmmm... Interesting...

  • 10.12.2011 5:14 PM PDT

Now, I don't know if Bungie actually meant for ALL of this to line up so nicely, but some of the more obvious things were probably on purpose. Like someone already said, biblical allegories are pretty much inevitable. They are too useful of a tool to be ignored.

OT...You lost me when you said the Covenant was representative of the "law"...after I read some of your earlier points, I saw them more as heretics or pagans, not a representation of an intangible entity.

  • 10.12.2011 6:43 PM PDT