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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
  • Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
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"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein


Posted by: Cowgoesmoo
Halo can also be an allegory to many other religions, that's a little self-centered.


Please, PLEASE don't start a religion flame-war on such a delightful read :(

  • 01.07.2012 12:13 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Too late. Read further back.

  • 01.07.2012 2:12 AM PDT

this is a cool idea and all but i dont think it is true at all, and a religious argument would not be cool







Click Here!!!

  • 01.07.2012 11:11 AM PDT

"We shall name him... Steve..."

must. not. congratulate...
atheism. will. not. ALLOW!

  • 01.12.2012 8:18 PM PDT

YENO

Ming = Blown

  • 01.13.2012 3:04 PM PDT

I don't see it as an allegory.

It's more a story rooted very much in a Euro-American base. Therefore heavily influenced by Christian thought, and with more conscious trappings of religious romanticism/symbolism/language.

There's sacrifice, for sure, but I don't see Gravemind and the Flood as sin. It's far too clumsy.

  • 01.15.2012 12:50 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: RedSparrows
There's sacrifice, for sure, but I don't see Gravemind and the Flood as sin. It's far too clumsy.

Point of interest, Christianity isn't the only one - or even the first - with sacrifice. Lest we forget Odin, Tyr, Heracles, Persephone and many, many other sacrificial deities.

  • 01.30.2012 5:58 PM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

wwmcd

  • 01.30.2012 6:49 PM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

Just realized something. Someone could have already mentioned it in this thread, but it would take too long for me to be sure so I'll just say it. Halsey, Miranda, and Cortana form the female version of the Holy Trinity. Halsey is the Mother, Miranda is the Daughter, and Cortana is the Holy Spirit.
And Spartans are Angels, which I am sure someone definitely must have said in this thread.

[Edited on 02.20.2012 10:09 AM PST]

  • 02.20.2012 10:06 AM PDT

I acknowledge my user name is stupid. However, I promise I'm not.

Disclaimer: The latter is a lie.

Definitely. That is absolutely brilliant stuff, mate.

I'm sure I've posted here in this thread before congratulating the OP, but I'll do it again: Thank you! This read was absolutely brilliant.

Posted by: CoRaMo
Just realized something. Someone could have already mentioned it in this thread, but it would take too long for me to be sure so I'll just say it. Halsey, Miranda, and Cortana form the female version of the Holy Trinity. Halsey is the Mother, Miranda is the Daughter, and Cortana is the Holy Spirit.
And Spartans are Angels, which I am sure someone definitely must have said in this thread.

  • 02.20.2012 11:02 AM PDT

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!


Posted by: MadGiggy
There's no doubt there are references to the bible in the Halo series. Garden of Eden? Turned out to be a Forerunner installation. John 1:17? Another obvious reference. But perhaps the most obvious one of all is the existence of the Ark: the only safe haven from the Flood. As an allegory though? It seems plausible.


The Covenant = The crusades.

  • 02.20.2012 6:49 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: CoRaMo
Halsey, Miranda, and Cortana form the female version of the Holy Trinity. Halsey is the Mother, Miranda is the Daughter, and Cortana is the Holy Spirit.

Actually the "holy trinity" isn't exclusive to Christianity, and is a concept predating it. This "female trinity" that you've describe would actually much better the Tri-Goddess concept of Paganism.

Not to mention that Miranda isn't the savior figure, therefore wouldn't be a good comparison to "The Son," nor are the three considered the same individual while separate.

Not trying to be a constant negativity, just putting my perspective on it.

  • 02.22.2012 4:39 PM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

Posted by: jack0fhearts
Actually the "holy trinity" isn't exclusive to Christianity, and is a concept predating it. This "female trinity" that you've describe would actually much better the Tri-Goddess concept of Paganism.

Not to mention that Miranda isn't the savior figure, therefore wouldn't be a good comparison to "The Son," nor are the three considered the same individual while separate.

Not trying to be a constant negativity, just putting my perspective on it.

I never said it was exclusive to Christianity. I took mythology. I know about the many different trinities out there (the Norns; Osiris, Isis, Horus; etc.). But the thread though is about CHRISTIAN ALLEGORY, so I'm trying to stay as much on topic as possible.

  • 02.22.2012 7:07 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Yes, however if it's about Christian Allegory, then why not leave it to the things that are decidedly Christian Allegories? I've seen multiple people practically grasping at straws to show how this game not only has allegories, but is a Christian game. I've seen people insinuate that Tsavo Highway is a reference to "the highway" in Revelations, and you made the connection that the Spartans are "angels." (On that point, I am more than certain that the Spartans do not represent angels in any way, and more represent the spirit of the Greek Spartans, hence they're naming.)

Now, if you want to see Halsey, Miranda and Cortana as the "Holy Trinity," then have at it. But them in and of themselves are not a Christian allegory in Halo.

  • 02.22.2012 7:36 PM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

There has been a misunderstanding. I misinterpreted the meaning of Christian allegory for Christian MOTIFS (sorry). I was drawing strong PARALLELS; I was NOT saying they LITERALLY represented the Holy Trinity. I have never thought of it as a Christian game/franchise.

Can you at least agree that my main topic has most of the hallmarks of the Holy Trinity? The only real big thing missing is that Miranda hasn't been resurrected in any way, at least not yet.

Most of the Covenant literally believes the Spartans to be demons. Much of Humanity would view them as warrior angels. Halsey, the "God" of my parallel Trinity, is their creator. See the connection? This was more of an afterthought by the way.
And of course they are the rightful inheritors of the Spartan name! No one is denying that. That is the strongest motif in the game.

[Edited on 02.22.2012 10:07 PM PST]

  • 02.22.2012 10:05 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: CoRaMo
Can you at least agree that my main topic has most of the hallmarks of the Holy Trinity? The only real big thing missing is that Miranda hasn't been resurrected in any way, at least not yet.


That and Halsey isn't a Goddess, and she was the one giving birth to Miranda, rather than parenting her spiritually. Cortana is not a spirit, nor matches the nature of the holy spirit (the "spirit of god" within us all.) The three are not considered the same person in the slightest, though Cortana is cloned from Halsey's mind. Halsey is also not an authority figure, nor will Miranda inherit anything from Halsey.

It's honestly a loose association at best.

Most of the Covenant literally believes the Spartans to be demons. Much of Humanity would view them as warrior angels.

The Covenant believes the Spartans to be "Demons" because they were faceless "humans" possessing the strength of a Sangheili. To their knowledge no human was ever capable of such strength, and so they must have been something else.

I am fairly certain that much of humanity would view the Spartans as what they are: super-soldiers and living weapons. We cannot project our beliefs onto game characters and then make a connection as fact. Could they perhaps view them as angels? Perhaps, but this is never said. Most of the UNSC and civilians know for a fact that the Spartans are not supernatural, so it's unlikely. They remain viewed as only super-soldiers in the canon because this is all that is ever mentioned.

  • 02.22.2012 11:23 PM PDT

You know our motto, We deliver!

This really is impressive. To be honest, the Halo story/ universe is what motivates me a lot. I find it inspiring

  • 02.23.2012 2:06 AM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

@jack0fhearts
You just completely ignored what I said about not viewing it is as allegory.

[Edited on 02.23.2012 9:58 AM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 9:58 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

You asked if I agreed that the Trinity motif was somewhat present with Halsey and her "family." I explained why I do not. You brought up the Sangheili's belief that Spartans are demons, I explained that belief. You made a claim that much of humanity would view the Spartans as warrior angels, I explained why this is not a good claim to make.

  • 02.23.2012 10:19 AM PDT
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I came for Halo, but I heard the Tru7h, fought thru Carnage, and stayed for Bungie.

No one cares how much you know, until they know how much you care.--Teddy Roosevelt

It still seems you have not seriously taken in account my amendment statement. And you obviously didn't catch how I used quotes around "God" to indicate that I wasn't saying Halsey was literally a goddess. Of course she isn't! But Halsey is an authority figure! Up until Glasslands really, she was in charge of the biggest and most important projects and would have more impact on the FATE of Humanity than anyone else.

The mother being the one that gives birth to Miranda is irrelevant in this context. She is still a PARENT of Miranda. I will concede that Halsey wasn't present in Miranda's upbringing though. There's no way around that one.

All three have almost the exact same minds and physical features. Cortana has the same exact neural patterns as Halsey, and she decidedly made her avatar embody a combination of Halsey and Miranda. And neural pathways are passed down genetically, so Miranda also applies to this (at least 50% the same). This is as close to a mortal parallel of the Holy Trinity as you could possibly get in the Halo Universe! To be clear, they aren't an allegory for the Holy Trinity, just a parallel of it. But it is more than a "loose association" as you put it.

You actually agree with me on the demon matter. The Covenant servant species believed/feared the Spartans as real demons. As for the Elites' belief in particular, I have no opinion. You brought them into this.

And what I meant was that much of Humanity would COMPARE the Spartans to guardian angels (the opposite of demons) sent down from on high (figuratively speaking), performing miraculous feats in battle to stave off our Armageddon. In the short story, Dirt, ODST Gage actually makes a similar comparison when a Spartan leaps into his foxhole to help out. This comparison works in conjunction with the Covies' reversed adamant belief (which is of course false) about the Spartans.

  • 02.23.2012 12:36 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

No, I quite get that you amended the statement and aren't arguing that these are allegories. But right now I'm simply debating the theories themselves, not as their admittance as a Christian allegory. Hell, the nature of Halsey's "trio" doesn't even qualify her as a good allegory to the Tri-Goddess.
Posted by: CoRaMo
But Halsey is an authority figure!

Not really. She had several influences and was an overseer to the Spartan project, but ONI ultimately made the calls on the Spartan project. Halsey, as a civilian assistant to ONI, had no real authority. What she did that might seem authoritative was her own initiative, and was only allowed because she was "the only" expert in the realms she was working with. No one reported to her, and she had no authority to issue any form of orders to anyone - even the Spartans.


All three have almost the exact same minds and physical features.

Only Halsey and Cortana share an "exact" image, Cortana being more of a young adult Halsey. Miranda would only share partial physical appearance with Halsey, and she shares almost nothing mentally with her. She has no knowledge of Forerunner lore or artifacts, is not scientifically inclined, and is far more military than Catherine ever will be.

You actually agree with me on the demon matter. The Covenant servant species believed/feared the Spartans as real demons. As for the Elites' belief in particular, I have no opinion. You brought them into this.
The Elites don't see them as "demons" as you or I would. That is just the "closest translation" in the English language for their superstition. They believe that - as the Spartans are "Faceless," they are thus souless. This is a hint at their association of "demon." To clarify, of course.

And as a hind-sight, if we're going with the "warrior angel" motifs, then the Spartans would too also parallel the Valkyries of Norse lore.

[Edited on 02.23.2012 4:00 PM PST]

  • 02.23.2012 3:59 PM PDT

Press any key to continue, or any other key to cancel.

jesus sounds like sausage backwards

  • 02.26.2012 9:52 AM PDT

Femme fatale; oh snap. | Halo vet since 2003.

You are way over thinking a work of fiction. Nice theory though.

  • 02.26.2012 12:38 PM PDT

We can only speculate as to what the writers' intentions were, but you make some very good points. I wouldn't be surprised because the New Testament is so ingrained in North American culture and thought that sometimes, even unconsciously, writers make stories that resemble it in many ways. Also, the image of a selfless hero who risks his/herself for the "good of the many" is what people like to see; it's satisfying and a psychologist might say that's why so many people idolize Chief (even more so than his Eastwood-esque demeanor ;)).

Halo is undoubtedly a commentary on the nature of religion to some extent. The story of the Covenant is clearly a criticism of fanaticism, and the Elites could be a representation of the upsurge of dissent in the 20th and the 21st centuries.

All in all, Bungie has created one of the best stories in gaming, and has made beautiful games that do it justice. But we all know it's not worth playing because of "stupid controls."

[Edited on 02.26.2012 5:24 PM PST]

  • 02.26.2012 5:20 PM PDT