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This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
  • Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory
Subject: Halo as a Christian Allegory

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

What do you mean by randomness?

  • 04.06.2012 1:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: jack0fhearts
What do you mean by randomness?
Well I had games in mind more than real life.

[Edited on 04.06.2012 11:53 PM PDT]

  • 04.06.2012 4:40 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

To specify, what did you mean about randomness existing in the Halo games?

  • 04.07.2012 1:52 AM PDT
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Posted by: jack0fhearts
To specify, what did you mean about randomness existing in the Halo games?
Well in H3, detonating a dropped grenade by shooting it or hitting it with an explosive shot results in nearby dropped grenades to go flying then detonating it. But meleeing it results in a chain reaction detonation.

In H1 and H2, throwing a grenade into a pile of dropped grenades (or shooting the grenades with a rocket) just results in a chain reaction.

Hence, H3 seems a lot more random to me.

  • 04.07.2012 11:26 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

That would be mechanics, not randomness.

  • 04.07.2012 1:54 PM PDT

Eskimo

Bungie's awesome right. They can hide all of this under a game about killing aliens. Me and a few others have tried to understand most of the meanings behind this stuff but you looked a little deeper. This is why I love Bungie though is the creativity but also how they make it enjoyable. I can't wait to see their next move.

See You Starside.

  • 04.07.2012 3:38 PM PDT


Posted by: SubjectNameHere
I would like to preface what I say by saying that I am both an agnostic atheist and an antitheist. I do agree, that in many places, the storyline within the trilogy parallel the Bible. This is undeniable. I do not believe, however, that Bungie meant this to be any kind of "spiritual" connection, merely a literary one. They do the same thing by lifting elements of Dante's Inferno for Halo: ODST, and (to a much, much, much lesser extent) Seven Samurai/Magnificent Seven and other Western movies for Halo: Reach. It is often cited that the names for certain people or groups are a hint at the religiosity of the games (for example, the Flood). I would argue that this could be the writers using imagery and wording that, while is by all rights Bungie's own creation, a common and recurring story in most people's lives. Indeed, a small reason why I like Halo so much more than Marathon is because Halo is not plagued with hard to pronounce alien names that hold little meaning for the average person.

I would also like to say that contemporary religion (that is, the blood-spattered three Abrahamic religions and Hinduism) are essentially thrown out in the Halo universe, by pretty much directly claiming that the Forerunners are the inspiration for the old gods of the world. If they do not directly inspire Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, they most certainly inspire the old religions they evolved from and take from; Summerian, Egyptian, and various other pagan mythologies.

The UNSC is secular, only a few characters are ever exhibited with any religion at all, and the smartest human ever (aside from the ancient human civilization), Dr. Catherine Halsey, is an atheist. Conversely, the Covenant is portrayed as an evil (as they usually are) theocracy. Thel 'Vadamee also goes through a Christ-like death (public stripping of armor, branding of Mark of Shame) and rebirth as the Arbiter, a messiah-like sangheili that is created and destroyed in times of great stress to help hold the Covenant together.

To briefly summarize, I am of the opinion that while Bungie uses literary themes and elements that parallel those of the New Testament, within the "reality" of their universe, they almost condemn religion in any place other than within the confines of your own skull. I wouldn't say that Bungie is necessarily trying to convey some religious message, merely using recognizable aspects of religion to provide a framework to their games.


This was my original post in this thread, under a different username, and I'd just like to repeat it.

  • 04.07.2012 4:06 PM PDT

It's great to see the discussion on this thread continue. I'm sure that we're all anticipating (and perhaps dreading, to an extent) Halo 4 and the new revelations that will come along with it. I fear that Bungie's original story arc (which I feel my allegorical argument lines up nicely with) will probably not continue on with 343 Industries, but rather a new one will be formed. Will 343 take a similar approach to the analogies that I've brought forth or will they make it something altogether different? I suppose only time will tell, but regardless of the answer or even the quality of the future Halo trilogy, I will always hold the original Halo trilogy's story up as a masterpiece of video game story telling and I'm certain that Bungie will continue to produce such masterful work outside of this franchise. Now is it time for them to turn this original trilogy into a movie or what? Sheesh.

  • 04.14.2012 10:51 PM PDT

I'm glad to be of assistance, cabid! It's quite a tale, and regardless of the story writer's intentions, there are certainly great pictures of heroism and sacrifice to be found in the Halo universe!

  • 04.14.2012 10:57 PM PDT

Also, I applaud Sliding Ghost and jack0fHearts (not to mention countless others)for keeping up a civil and intelligent discussion about this topic. This sort of thing is truly the exception to what you'll find on most message boards around the world wide web, and it's a wonderful and inspiring example of where I hope video game discourse is headed. Keep it up, folks!

  • 04.14.2012 11:01 PM PDT

I LOVE HALO! Better than any other game.

But I love Halo 3 and Combat Evolved - never got the chance to play Halo 2 :(

Damn, nice work.

  • 04.15.2012 8:55 AM PDT

play halo get kills


Posted by: SandAardvark
Nice job never really noticed any of that it surprised me though wont take it that the covenant are christians because id feel bad after killing a grunt.
i wont or wouldnt cause they tryed to kill us frist and we tryed to make a truse so they must die

  • 04.20.2012 8:19 PM PDT

'Κύριε Ἰησοῦ Χριστέ, Υἱὲ τοῦ Θεοῦ, ἐλέησόν με τὸν ἁμαρτωλόν.'

I actually think that the Arbitor represents the Jesus Christ figure because he was betrayed and dishonored by his own people, believed to be dead but then came back and saved the world by stopping installation 05 from being fired.

  • 04.22.2012 12:10 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Actually Thel was never believed to be dead. The council demanded his death, but the Prophets instead made him the Arbiter. Further, he didn't stop Installation 05 from firing, Miranda Keyes did. This didn't "save the world," it actually only prolonged disaster, as the Halo Array was then put on "standby mode."

So the Arbiter in no way resembles Jesus any more than any other great mythological hero.

  • 04.22.2012 3:19 AM PDT


Posted by: jack0fhearts
Actually Thel was never believed to be dead. The council demanded his death, but the Prophets instead made him the Arbiter. Further, he didn't stop Installation 05 from firing, Miranda Keyes did. This didn't "save the world," it actually only prolonged disaster, as the Halo Array was then put on "standby mode."

So the Arbiter in no way resembles Jesus any more than any other great mythological hero.


I think different members of the Covenant have believed him dead at different times. He was disgraced, stripped of his rank, and tortured in front of the Covenant (for heresy, no less). When he was dragged away, the general assumption was that he would die (the minor prophets of the council wanted his corpse paraded). He "died", having all his prestige removed, and was "reborn" as the Arbiter. He was believed to be killed by Tartarus when he met the Gravemind. He was present for much of what the Chief did to stop the Covenant and the Flood, and he was the one that killed Truth.

I actually think that the Arbiter more accurately parallels with Jesus that the Chief does, but both heroes have characteristics not at all unique to Jesus, being present in other mythological deities.

  • 04.22.2012 12:31 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

And how many times has the Chief been assumed dead? Or Johnson? How many times has every member of the UNSC "saved the Earth"?

To bring up the punishment of the Arbiter, consider Heracles. After being driven mad by Hera and killing his family, he was punished by Hera. Stripped of his good name and heroism through the atrocious act that she caused, and declared a defiler, blasphemer, heretic, etc etc. To atone for this, he had to complete several life-threatening tasks in Hera's service. Does this make the Arbiter Heracles?

Simply "believing he's dead" does not parallel a soldier to Jesus. Many in the Halo Universe were thought to be dead. Jesus was not "thought to be dead," he died. They took his body down from the cross and laid him in his grave. Only later (according to belief, it's not a fact,) did he "rise from the dead."

To further juxtapose the two characters, Thel' was not sentenced to death for upsetting the religious balance of the Covenant, he was sentenced because he failed to save Halo from the UNSC, allowed it to be destroyed, and didn't die honorably defending it. Jesus died for upsetting the religious balance of the Jews at that time and location, and for "blasphemous" claims and displays. Thel then went on as the Arbiter to wage war against the Covenant Loyalists, peaking when he killed the last remaining Hierarch and upset the Covenant balance. Jesus never waged war against the Pharisees, taught only peace, and never killed anyone. (and before Revelations is brought up, we're speaking on what happened, not what "might" or was believed would happen.)

The parallels between Jesus and the Arbiter are thin, sketchy at best. They stretch the seemingly desperate need for Halo to match up with the bible just as badly as "parallels" between John and Jesus, or especially the passages of the "highway" in Revelations mirroring Tsavo Highway. It's quite ridiculous.

  • 04.22.2012 1:53 PM PDT

I started up the heated debate on whether the SPARTAN-II in the cryo tube near the end of Reach is really Linda.
I created the Moa XING avatar pic.
Also I earned the All Star nameplate with this submission to Week 14 All Stars http://www.bungie.net/images/News/Inline11/bwu_0415/art/likea boss.jpg

Halo is not necessarily a CHRISTIAN allegory.
The story of Noah and the Flood is not exclusive to Christianity.
I'd say that Halo has some heavy Abrahamic influences in it, but not an allegory.

  • 04.22.2012 2:17 PM PDT

jack:

The Arbiter's inability to protect Installation 04 was deemed heresy, and that's what he was tried for. As for the Heracles thing: Bungie may very well have drawn some inspirations from that myth, or they may have lifted them from the Jesus myth, or, even likelier, they lifted them from the Jesus myth which was also influenced by previously existing and contemporary myths.

Also, to get a better idea of how I view this thread, check out my previous post on this page, reposted from my other username, originally posted under "SubjectNameHere".

The point I'm making is that of the characters, Thel is the superstitious religious leader who is tortured and "dies" for "heresy" by the local religious clerics. He is reborn as the Arbiter, more ideal than individual, and he becomes the member of the Covenant with the REAL revealed truth, not the Prophets. Again, you should read my previous post on the subject to get an idea of what I think about this thread. In writing the stories of this universe, the developers very clearly lifted archetypes and themes from the Bible. This wasn't to proselytize or send some message (I think the secular UNSC beating the theocratic Covenant is one proof of this), it was done merely for literary purposes.

  • 04.22.2012 2:51 PM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

Posted by: CavemanBCE
or, even likelier, they lifted them from the Jesus myth which was also influenced by previously existing and contemporary myths.


Very doubtful. There are very few foundable parallels between Jesus and Thel. Jesus was not a leader, was not a warrior, and did not answer to the religious and social authorities. He may have been deemed a heretic, yet how many others have as well? Joan of Arc was branded a heretic, was a leader, and was a warrior. She parallels Thel better than Jesus, actually.

The point I'm making is that of the characters, Thel is the superstitious religious leader who is tortured and "dies" for "heresy" by the local religious clerics.

He was not a religious leader, as he was not San Shy'uum. If you meant that he was a leader who was also religious, again I bring up how many have been religious leaders deemed heretics and later then heroes.

In writing the stories of this universe, the developers very clearly lifted archetypes and themes from the Bible.

What themes intrinsic to the bible? Sacrifice? Retribution? Salvation? Themes that permeate more religions than Christianity alone. There are some strong parallels to Abrahamic figures, such as the "flood" "ark" and a few others, but these hardly make Halo a "Christian Allegory." If anything, it makes it a "Religious Allegory" spanning many religions and cultures.

  • 04.22.2012 11:52 PM PDT
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Posted by: jack0fhearts
Actually Thel was never believed to be dead. The council demanded his death, but the Prophets instead made him the Arbiter. Further, he didn't stop Installation 05 from firing, Miranda Keyes did. This didn't "save the world," it actually only prolonged disaster, as the Halo Array was then put on "standby mode."

So the Arbiter in no way resembles Jesus any more than any other great mythological hero.
Except that he tried to reason with Tartarus and he killed Truth with a sword. But I admit, that's all he did. He was sidelined after H2 and was more like a partner than a significant character.

  • 04.23.2012 5:55 AM PDT

"Where ere thou hast been, here or in yon world manifest? Canst thou tell what is, or what was, or what is to come? No thing shall last. Yet there are some things that will never change. History is written in blood, yet are battles really lost on the battlefield? Canst thou tell me where thou comest, and where thou goest, and what is, or what was, or what will be? For everything remains, AS IT NEVER WAS."

He did try to reason with Tartarus, true. But did this stop the Halo from firing? No. True, he distracted Tartarus enough that Miranda could pull the plug, so to speak, but even considering that it was Miranda who stopped the Halo from firing.

Thel also killed Truth with a sword, yes. But for both of these instances, how would they parallel him to Christian mythology?

  • 04.23.2012 5:55 PM PDT

<3

Cool story, bro

  • 04.23.2012 6:20 PM PDT
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I'm Filipino!

So you're saying that Chief is going to die in the future since you're referring him to Jesus? Jesus got resurrected for 3 days and then went to heaven. So that means somewhere along the line, Chief is going to come back, be a badass and then eventually die...

  • 04.25.2012 9:56 PM PDT
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MLG Cheehwawa, are you retarded? Everything you said makes NO SENSE. NONE OF THESE PARALELL!
In what way are the humans muslim? You are a freaking idiot and you shouldn't just say stuff you don't know anything about.

  • 04.26.2012 3:09 PM PDT

http://www.GetMyMicrosoftPoints.com/?i=359103

  • 04.28.2012 2:56 AM PDT