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This topic has moved here: Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)
  • Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)
Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)

I wish I was still legendary.



Currently Halo has a cartoony feel to it. This works fine...except the enemies. Where an elite should be a regal, disciplined warrior, he's a hunchbacked dinosaur. Where brutes should look primitive, they look like heavily armoured knights with carefully groomed faces. Jackals look like retarded birds.

here's what I think should change for Reach:

Brutes currently are too disciplined looking, too much like they have a sense of honour. From what the bestarium says, they are a MUCH more primitive and violent society then one that has a rigid class system without conflict, grooms their faces and cooperates with others.Hell, in the books they quite happily kill one another to gain power (tartarus killed his uncle to become chieftain). IF they are in the game, they should have much rougher armour, held together by leather straps.

For example, Brute minors would have little more than a headpiece and a shoulderpad. Bodyguards would have armour made from painted metal plates, held together by leather. Chieftans would have primitive, but still more ornate armour. Jetpack brute would have a bulky jetpack like they have now, but otherwise would just be brute minors.

Any of them with shields would, to put it simply, have a visible shield emitter somewhere on their armour. Not a big one, possibly just something that looks similar to a Jackal's gauntlet strapped around their arm. In halo 3, their armour doesn't fit with the aesthetic style of the rest of the brute sandbox - brutal and primitive is what it should look like, instead we get cleanly made, shiny...well, toys.

Hunters are basically a shiny bunch of worms that look like they just came off a factory line. All that's really needed here is more worn, damaged looking armour. Something like scratches and scorch marks, if anything, or worms that fall out when they die. Different hunter ranks, such as the gold ones in ODST and the silver ones mentioned in (I think) one of the comics, could also be interesting - out of all covenant species, other then engineers, hunters are probably right down near the bottom of the list of how fleshed out their society is.

Elites are splitfaced, hunchbacked dinosaurs. They should reflect their sense of honour, pride and courage more - standing tall, commanding large amounts of units in battle. Zealots and commanders could have subtly different armour. Zealots = gold with one larger shoulderpad, for example.What we had in Halo 3 was a crappy excuse for an Elite.

Grunts should have armour that actually looks plated on more, that sound more like how they were described in the books. They'd shuffle around and make a few less funny comments, with a slightly deeper pitch. They would be seen in situations OUTSIDE of standing behind an elite for no reason - maybe pre-defined animations for certain areas, like a grunt carrying a motion scanner or a couple scouting through some trees on their own.

They'd still be cowards, but wouldn't hesitate to try and kill you from a distance. It would be really cool if running into certain grunt squads (ones doing a job like hailing approaching phantoms) and not killing the quickly could result in them alerting a phantom to your current position, dropping off more enemies.

I should stress that these are PRE DEFINED - they are NOT enemy behaviours. They are simply atmospheric stuff, like the whole interactive cinematic at the end of sierra 117 but can be interrupted at any point. Their motion tracker would NOT detect you, for example.

Jackals that are actually scary, and somehow reflect their mercenary heritage - maybe they could have a belt or bandolier with grenades or an energy garrotte on it. I'm reasonably sure that as mercenaries, they must have weapons OTHER than the covenant plasma pistols and needlers as well...Their armour would likely look slightly different too. What we have not is a retarded rat-bird, not a space pirate. Instead of jackals at extreme close range using a plasma pistol, they should take out an energy cutlass (basically a needler sword, actually) and try and gut you.

Prophets that looked more sinister then they currently do, but still regal - for example, Truth didn't look evil as such in Halo 3. He just looked like another alien. they could have gaunter faces or something, I don't really know. Truth looked like a weak, old man, more than anything else, hardly threatening at all.

Drones that act like a proper hive mind rather then independent creatures, and have armour of sorts that looks more like natural plating - the shield generator thingies would have cracks and stuff around them, to look like they were placed into the armour by force.

Look at them in Halo 3: they NEVER act like a hive. There's just a whole pile of them at once shooting aimlessly. A hive would be more coordinated than this. not necessarily 20 drones piling on you at once, but maybe breaking into squads of four who attacked a specific target.

So, to sum up:

brutes should look more brutal

Elites should be prouder than they currently are

Grunts should be slightly more menacing, but still kind of funny

Jackals should actually look like mercenary space pirate bird-lizard things

Hunters should be more fleshed out

Drones should act like a hive

Prophets should be sinister

Some enemy 'encounters' would have enemies playing out a preset animation that could be interrupted at any time

From random points in thread:

the possibility of danger from not killing things fast: For example, say you ran into grunts near a covenant encampment hailing approaching phantoms and banshees. If these grunts noticed you, and weren't killed off within 20 seconds, they would send off a distress call and a phantom would arrive and drop off some more enemies. Gives the feel that the covenant are actually dangerous and numerous rather than pockets of 3-6 grunts, a brute and not much else.


Updated:

ENEMY BEHAVIOURS

By this I mean special behaviours for enemies, like Oblivion's fleeing deer or Fallout's sleeping Yao Guai.

What these essentially are is a set of special animations and behaviours for characters.


Grunts: Shuffling as they do already. Sleeping like they do already. Fiddling with each other's packs could be interesting, as could having conversations with each other. A bit more frightened of their superiors than they currently are. They could also shoot at random human objects when bored.

Jackals: Shields down whilst not fighting, they would sometimes be seen scavenging for meat and fighting each other. These would be small preset animations of the two sighting a dead marine and attacking each other for it, the loser walking off sulking for a bit before coming back. Beyond eating and scrapping animations, they could also have a much better 'alarmed' animation than turning around or waving their arm. Perhaps instinctively ducking and turning on their shield whilst looking toward where the noise that alarmed them came from.

Elites: Abusing their soldiers. Grunts are cannon fodder, elites should treat them as such. Kick them to keep them moving, and punish them for failing to do something. push them out of the way if they need to. Elites could also have 'sparring' animations, where two elites will draw energy swords and spar with one another. Their animations for combat could consist of more than just strafing and rolling; ducking under bullets, diving whilst returning fire, generally the sort of thing you see commandos do in films. Berserk elites would draw swords.

Brutes: should be...well, brutal. Idle animations and behaviours would be abusing grunts and jackals. They wouldn't care about either - if a grunt got in their way outside combat, they would push it out of the way. brutes sparring could be interesting too, along with chieftains conducting sermons of the Prophet's glory.

In Combat they would be slightly clumsy and slow, but not dumb. They would try and dodge bullets, and have a considerably shorter 'berserk' animation - rather than bend down, roar, then run, they would begin running, bend down as they went, and start roaring. If another covenant got in their way during this, for example a grunt, they would THROW it out of the way.

Hunters: They don't care about most other Covenant, and have an odd culture. Seeing these creatures simple trample covenant stupid enough to stay in their way could be interesting. Enemies would ALWAYS try and get out of their way and stay far away from them. Hunters would sometimes be seen 'mumbling' - in the books, they are cited as sometimes randomly reciting poetry. In combat, hunters would act similar to what they do now. When berserked, however, they would run faster, NEVER shoot, and roar a lot more. They would also run differently - not stopping to throw stuff out of their way, but hitting it as they ran.

Drones: Sleeping would be cool, as would drones on patrols. Drones could also carry stuff in their mandibles or be caught feeding. In combat, they would stick together as much as possible.

Prophets: Well, we'll probably never fight prophets. But just in case, they conduct sermons outside of combat.

Engineers: Inside and outside of combat, so long as they are not shot, Engineers will fiddle with machinery. They will be able to take certain things apart and put them back together. They can also be seen 'talking' to one another with their cilia. When shot, the engineer will rise rapidly and hide from you until it reaches another piece of machinery it likes. They will not care if their squad is killed, and would be capable of repairing broken enemy armour, recharging your shields and producing minor amounts of ammo for Covenant guns/replacing a plasma weapon's battery.

Any further ideas contained in another post.

better grenade physics

[Edited on 10.13.2009 8:51 PM PDT]

  • 08.21.2009 4:30 PM PDT
Subject: Reach Enemies - how they could look

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I like your ideas for making the enemies look and act more serious.

  • 08.21.2009 5:15 PM PDT

Were it so easy.

Cool idea, it would be cool to see Elites look cooler and stronger, I really hope Bungie listens to you!

  • 08.21.2009 5:36 PM PDT
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I would love if these ideas would be implemented into Halo: Reach. It would certainly make it more satisfying if you kill scary looking enemies rather then toys.

You would feel a sense of accomplishment.

[Edited on 08.21.2009 5:38 PM PDT]

  • 08.21.2009 5:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: LinkLegend0
Cool idea, it would be cool to see Elites look cooler and stronger, I really hope Bungie listens to you! Bump


Me too!

  • 08.21.2009 5:53 PM PDT

THIS SUMMER...

Yes, I fully agree with your thoughts about the way the Covenant should look and act, especially the Brutes and Jackals. With today's video game graphics capabilities, Bungie should be able to add detail to the enemies in Halo: Reach. Aside from the visuals, it would take longer to code more canon-following AI intelligence... of course,we could also just leave the game to be a game and save the details for a Halo movie or the books. Hey, it's up to Bungie.

  • 08.21.2009 6:15 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

I definitely agree. I already think that the elites are great, but a few improvements would make them excellent. With the Brutes, I'm thinking they should look much more uneven than they are as of now. They really look too even, and not as rough around the edges. I also really have to agree with you with the Jackals on their exaggerated reactions when you hit their arm. It's like they're having a seizure or something, I mean, when you hit a brute, he doesn't even flinch at all, I know that they're a lot bigger than Jackals, but that's just pushing it far.

  • 08.21.2009 6:21 PM PDT

AGREED

  • 08.22.2009 12:53 AM PDT

Every night at the stroke of twelve, McHenry would lurch from his grave, REEKING OF ASS AND DEATH

I disagree one the character design, its quite good in my opinion. The elites look bad-ass in Halo 3, especially in the cut-scenes. You mentioned how they live by a strict code of honor: I really felt that coming from them.

But one thing that would be great would be more unique animations.

All the little nuances you spoke about like squads calling support, thats a great idea, but that adds so much complexity to the game that while awesome, requires a S--t ton more work.

[Edited on 08.22.2009 2:42 AM PDT]

  • 08.22.2009 2:38 AM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: Lord Joseifius 2
I disagree one the character design, its quite good in my opinion. The elites look bad-ass in Halo 3, especially in the cut-scenes. You mentioned how they live by a strict code of honor: I really felt that coming from them.

But one thing that would be great would be more unique animations.

All the little nuances you spoke about like squads calling support, thats a great idea, but that adds so much complexity to the game that while awesome, requires a S--t ton more work.


Ehh...I didn't really notice it with anyone beyond Arby, seeing as he was pretty much the ONLY elite in cutscenes - and in almost every cutscene you see him in, he's standing upright anyway.

The few times you saw them in campaign, they seemed to be focused less on honourable victory and more on simply slaughtering the brutes and flood.

And it doesn't require too much work to code the phantom drops, I think... You can do it with a script saying something along the lines of 'if X squad is not killed by Y seconds after first contact, spawn phantom out of player view and move to to point Z.'

Basically, if grunt = x and y = 20 seconds, the player has 20 seconds to kill the grunt before phantom (p) is spawned off-screen. If the player kills the grunt BEFORE 20 seconds the phantom does not appear.

  • 08.22.2009 2:50 AM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

Elites have to look how they did in Halo 2 and talk like they did in Halo CE

Woort Woort Woort!

  • 08.22.2009 5:29 AM PDT

yup! they HAVE to look like the halo 2 elites. the ones in halo 3 look so.....pathetic but the ones in halo 2 looked at least honorable.

  • 08.22.2009 5:32 AM PDT

help this guy keep this thread alive.... he's got a ton of great ideas. bungie really needs to see this

  • 08.22.2009 5:35 AM PDT
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Posted by: HipiO7
Elites have to look how they did in Halo 2 and talk like they did in Halo CE

Woort Woort Woort!


Yeah, they looked better in Halo CE

  • 08.22.2009 5:52 AM PDT

agreed

  • 08.22.2009 7:07 AM PDT

I agree with you completely. The enemies AI and appearance are in need of a desperate overhaul. Everything you mentioned in that huge wall of text is roughly what I would like to see as well. Nice job and keep this thread alive!

  • 08.22.2009 7:29 AM PDT
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Posted by: Council Elite 12
I also really have to agree with you with the Jackals on their exaggerated reactions when you hit their arm. It's like they're having a seizure or something, I mean, when you hit a brute, he doesn't even flinch at all, I know that they're a lot bigger than Jackals, but that's just pushing it far.

How about you get hit by a guy who can run and jump in half ton armor like its nothing.

  • 08.22.2009 8:32 AM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Brutes won't be in Reach. They weren't "In power" yet.

  • 08.22.2009 8:34 AM PDT

Try to keep up!

Posted by: llamalizard
Currently Halo has a REALLY very cartoony feel to it. This works fine...except the enemies. Where an elite should be a regal, disciplined warrior, he's a hunchbacked smily dinosaur. Where brutes should look primitive, they look like heavily armoured knights with carefully groomed faces. Jackals, i.e. space pirates, look like retarded birds. Hunters look...well, not very dangerous.
...your an idiot...
1. there were no brutes on reach and the reson they act like they do now was because bungie was unhappy with how eisly players could kill them compared to eliets who have energy shields(thus the power armor they now wear)
2. elites havealways had that little hutch on their back(after three games i doubt theyed chandge now)
3. jackels look like birds because theyre -blam!- birds
4.hunters arnt dangeouse not because they gont look it(their walking tanks for crying out loud)but because your faster and can stay behind them unloading your clip...fight one up close and in front and youll be singing a different tune

it dousnt mateer how they look cause theyre -blam!- aliens...

  • 08.22.2009 8:35 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

1. Brutes could be on Reach, although it isn't likely.
2. Brutes were given power armor because Bungie felt they were easier to kill in Halo 2....But now it's easier to kill them in Halo 3......
3.Elites didn't have that Hunch in Halo 2, it got worse as the games went on.
4.Don't have much to say about Jackals...
5.Hunters should be more fearsome, like how they were described in the books.

Don't be so cocky.

  • 08.22.2009 9:01 AM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: pudding30000010
Posted by: llamalizard
Currently Halo has a REALLY very cartoony feel to it. This works fine...except the enemies. Where an elite should be a regal, disciplined warrior, he's a hunchbacked smily dinosaur. Where brutes should look primitive, they look like heavily armoured knights with carefully groomed faces. Jackals, i.e. space pirates, look like retarded birds. Hunters look...well, not very dangerous.
...your an idiot...
1. there were no brutes on reach and the reson they act like they do now was because bungie was unhappy with how eisly players could kill them compared to eliets who have energy shields(thus the power armor they now wear)
2. elites havealways had that little hutch on their back(after three games i doubt theyed chandge now)
3. jackels look like birds because theyre -blam!- birds
4.hunters arnt dangeouse not because they gont look it(their walking tanks for crying out loud)but because your faster and can stay behind them unloading your clip...fight one up close and in front and youll be singing a different tune

it dousnt mateer how they look cause theyre -blam!- aliens...


1. We've only seen...a tiny part of the battle for reach. Brutes could well be there, fighting someone else. And the reason they have power armour is NOT how easy they were to kill, it's because they wanted to flesh the brutes out more. They were actually harder than elites to kill in H2.

2. No, they haven't. They were 8'6 in Halo: CE, they're now about 7 feet because of the hunchback.

3. Yeah, they are...but still. Would you rather fight a retarded spacebird or a scary spacebird?

4. Hunter's aren't threatening as they currently are. Read the books. They're faster in those, can survive being crushed under like, a ton or rock, and freaking MELT people when they shoot them. All I suggested for them was more damaged looking armour, even just a few scorch marks on the shields, to show they were veterans of many fights rather than something that just came off an assembly line.

And on the topic of Brutes: just because they weren't in power doesn't mean they weren't deployed. Read Contact: Harvest.

  • 08.22.2009 4:42 PM PDT
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WHAT DO YOU MEAN HUNTERS ARENT DANGEROUS? THEY CAN KILL EVERYTHING WITH EITHER THIER MINI SCARAB GUN OR BY PUNCHING YOU!!!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY ON LEGENDARY!!!!!!!!!!

[Edited on 08.22.2009 5:33 PM PDT]

  • 08.22.2009 5:32 PM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: silverwolf01
WHAT DO YOU MEAN HUNTERS ARENT DANGEROUS? THEY CAN KILL EVERYTHING WITH EITHER THIER MINI SCARAB GUN OR BY PUNCHING YOU!!!!!!!!!! ESPECIALLY ON LEGENDARY!!!!!!!!!!


I never said to make them MORE dangerous, just more threatening LOOKING. As they are now, they look like a brand new toy, not a battle-scarred living tank.

  • 08.22.2009 5:43 PM PDT