Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)
  • Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)
Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)

Posted by: llamalizard
It's still uncommon in Covenant society. Elites are relatively likely to...punish grunts when they do something wrong, or make them run errands. Brutes...well, I get the feeling that brutes don't care about grunts at all. We could have brutes that push grunts out of the way, roar in their faces...generally abuse them a heap.

To clarify: Elites 'discipline' grunts. They won't usually beat them up, but if the grunt does something stupid they will.

Brutes abuse grunts. They'd push them away if they got too close, kick them periodically if annoyed, shout in their faces to scare the grunts, maybe even grab them by their feet and drop them if they were really bored.


okay, fair enough

  • 10.18.2009 5:52 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Posted by: llamalizard
(Imagine the OP here)


Brutes: You're more or less completely wrong. Yes Brutes are primitive but their armor is Covenant. They do have a sense of pride, honor, and discipline (not as profound as that of Elite nobles but to say they lack it is idiotic).

Jiralhanae are not just bloodthirsty barbarians, they are sentient beings that built a civilization. They are not mindless orcs who would murder their comrades over a scrap of meat and follow orders only so far as their master's whips reach, they are sociable pack animals that follow a clear hierarchy of command. Case in point: Tartarus killed his uncle Maccabeus in a duel, a lawful ritual.

By the way, Brutes are certainly not clumsy. They are powerful creatures who emphasize power over precision but they are skilled warriors.

Hunters: Take a look at their armor, it's covered in scratches and pits, and when damaged significantly their armor would be repaired. The Covenant are not the UNSC, they value form as well as function. Why do you think that their warships have spacious corridors with artistic lighting and intricate wall etchings?

Elites: In gameplay of Halo 3 Elites were occasional allies, there was very little to be gained by fleshing out their characters. They would stand straight normally but in combat Elites would hunch to minimize their target (unless they need extra height for a better view or something). Sangheili are prideful but they are also smart. It could be nice to see different straight/hunch time ratios for say the foolish young Elites or the regal upper officers.

Grunts: Were you in a contest to see how much trivial minutiae you could obsess over? Their armor is as form-fitting as it is because of performance issues, and why would their voices suddenly change tone?

Jackals: Are you complaining at all about how they look? I can't tell. You seem to be suggesting that they're made less sinister (which seems odd as you apparently want more sinister Grunts). Mercenaries do dress like soldiers you know, and act pretty much like soldiers, and fight like soldiers, the major differences being entirely off the battlefield (so any Jackal you see wouldn't ever show any specific "Merc Signs").

Prophets: Truth was a weak old man and was never meant to appear threatening, are you in a stupid complaints contest too?

Drones: What are you talking about? Drones worked together more than any other Covenant. Even more so in ODST.

In summary: This is a -Blam!- video game and the colorful stylized realism makes the series distinct, if you want gritty semi-hard sci-fi realism there's a bestselling series of novels that I'd like to point you to.

  • 10.18.2009 6:49 PM PDT
Subject: Reach Enemies - how they could look

Giggity Giggity Goo - Quagmire

I love the books but the game was first so Bungie really came up with how the covies look not the authors.

  • 10.18.2009 7:45 PM PDT

Let me hear you sound off
Let them know how you feel
If the anger inside is real
Sound off
Long before the bridges are burned
The powers to be are going to hear your words

Not at one point when I was playing any Halo game did I think it looked cartoony.

That's what I got Team Fortress 2 for.

  • 10.18.2009 8:33 PM PDT
Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: EldritchWarlord
very good rebuttal


I'm going to thank you for actually taking the time to critique this, but a few things:

1. Brutes wore primitive armour during the time period when they were ruled by tartarus. We've only seen them in 'new' armour since a new, unnamed chieftain took his place.

They are violent, not primitive as such, but very violent. Seeing them actually show this in battle, rather than just 'Z0mg I CAN stand adn shewt you then go rawr and be 4shotetd' would be better, but they need to look the part. Maybe I went OTT with the armour, but this is an IDEA.

They're also the creatures that built a spacefaring civilisation, utterly destroyed it back to being hunter-gatherers and learned nothing from the experience. Smart? not exactly.

2. They're really, really minor scratches. At the very least you'd expect ones that had been deployed to a heavily defended human planet for a while and encountered fierce resistance to be at least SLIGHTLY more damaged than some scratches.

It's hardly as if in a major assault, you would pick up your hunters the moment their armour was damaged, transport them back to the ship, take off the armour, put the worms into whatever they're put in, make a new set of armour, put them in it then send them back to a fight that may well have already ended.

3. Elites were dumb in halo 3. ANYONE can see that - case in point, the arbiter. Smily hunchback lizard. They never hunched in H1 or H2 because hunching would affect their ability to move quickly and dodge enemy fire/get behind cover. In H3 they ALWAYS hunched and looked like crap because of it. Maybe some could constantly hunch, sure, but only if they had something heavy enough to warrant it.

4. Their armour in-game is actually mostly recessed onto the skin. That's all that needs to change, making it actually look relatively thick. The grunts in the books barked, and we don't have translation software in this game (canonically), so naturally their voices will be a bit lower.

5. Yes, I am. You'd expect a mercenary to look at least SLIGHTLY different to a normal covenant. They've been seen in other combat situations before (case in point, Fall of Reach - early on) when they used melee weapons of their own design, so why not use them in-game?

6. Whilst it is true that he was weak and old, not ALL prophets would look like this. He didn't look threatening, insane, anything really besides old in H3. It's amazing what slightly different lighting (ODST LE) can change.

7. 40 + drones charging you at once isn't fun, whether they are a hive mind or not. As of now they don't act like a hive mind, they act like a SWARM - you fight so many at once that it's hard to realise they're never all focusing on you. A swarm wouldn't randomly have some fly onto a wall and sit there whilst three flew around and another one walked in front of a ghost that was being driven.

8. I like the stylised realism, it's just that the enemies look terrible compared to H1 + 2 - the distinctly 'grittier' games in the series when you look at them (no brutes that look like comic book villains, no smily hunchback elites). a BIT more realism, not much (nothing like the CoD, Crysis or Killzone artstyle) would be nice if it bought the looks closer to those of H1 and H2.

I do appreciate you giving a decent critique though, really. I get a bit bored when nobody challenges things, gives reasons why they're either wrong or could be different.

Thanks.

  • 10.18.2009 8:56 PM PDT

52,000 kills in Halo 2 and more legendary playthroughs in CE than you can imagine. I am truly a God.
.................................,-;;-=-,_____
,-------------------------.___/-----i````````'\--`\ .
|-------------xvxvxvxvxvxv--o-~~~~~~o--,\======
|_______|_o_./``/--/`;````~----------------~`
....................../_/`` BR-55

Posted by: llamalizard
Posted by: Elite assassin 1
Even in cinematics if it was touched as well, just a general disrespect for each other and some bantering.


Yeah, species rivalry would be great. i only have 40 characters left in the main post though, so I can't include it (sadface).

So essentially, you mean stuff like brutes and elites fighting, jackals perhaps biting grunts, that sort of thing? but minor scuffles, as in they don't kill each other?


Yeah, It would be nice to have that feeling of rivalry. Elites would look down on the barbarian like Brutes and the brutes would hate the arrogant elites. Also I would love to see a brute chieftain and an Elite Zealot argue. Good that would be sweet. Since Jackals speak no English there would be little opportunity of bantering toward the grunts how ever they could just have a pack of jackal sneering and hissing at a group of grunts to show their dislike for one another.

  • 10.18.2009 9:47 PM PDT
Subject: Reach Enemies - how they could look

52,000 kills in Halo 2 and more legendary playthroughs in CE than you can imagine. I am truly a God.
.................................,-;;-=-,_____
,-------------------------.___/-----i````````'\--`\ .
|-------------xvxvxvxvxvxv--o-~~~~~~o--,\======
|_______|_o_./``/--/`;````~----------------~`
....................../_/`` BR-55

Posted by: pudding30000010
Posted by: llamalizard
Currently Halo has a REALLY very cartoony feel to it. This works fine...except the enemies. Where an elite should be a regal, disciplined warrior, he's a hunchbacked smily dinosaur. Where brutes should look primitive, they look like heavily armoured knights with carefully groomed faces. Jackals, i.e. space pirates, look like retarded birds. Hunters look...well, not very dangerous.
...your an idiot...
1. there were no brutes on reach and the reson they act like they do now was because bungie was unhappy with how eisly players could kill them compared to eliets who have energy shields(thus the power armor they now wear)
2. elites havealways had that little hutch on their back(after three games i doubt theyed chandge now)
3. jackels look like birds because theyre -blam!- birds
4.hunters arnt dangeouse not because they gont look it(their walking tanks for crying out loud)but because your faster and can stay behind them unloading your clip...fight one up close and in front and youll be singing a different tune

it dousnt mateer how they look cause theyre -blam!- aliens...


Correction you re an idiot if youre going to insult someones intelligence at least spell correctly dumbass.

  • 10.18.2009 9:49 PM PDT

52,000 kills in Halo 2 and more legendary playthroughs in CE than you can imagine. I am truly a God.
.................................,-;;-=-,_____
,-------------------------.___/-----i````````'\--`\ .
|-------------xvxvxvxvxvxv--o-~~~~~~o--,\======
|_______|_o_./``/--/`;````~----------------~`
....................../_/`` BR-55

I agree with some of these points but more with improvement of A.I. Jackals Elites and Brute all Look great to me. They could be changed a bit but to say they look bad is I little far. Especially considering that the Elites looked sick in the cinematics.

  • 10.18.2009 9:56 PM PDT
Subject: Reach Enemies - How they Could look (updated 12/10/2009)

Cool Idea.

  • 10.20.2009 2:54 PM PDT

I agree, i want it

  • 10.20.2009 3:04 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
This is the way the world ends
Not with a bang but a wimper.
-T. S. Eliot "The Hollow Man"

Id like so see a brute pick up a marine and rip him in half. THat'd be sweet.

  • 10.20.2009 3:22 PM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

ba-ba-boing.

Special combat animations (new post):

Brutes: similar to how they are now, but not such bullet sponges, They'd actually try to evade now, and would have a better berserk animation and wouldn't throw grenades whilst berserked.

Grunts: Skittish, as they are in H1. H3's grunts were considerably less likely to be scared of you. They would usually run if their leader died, but if, for example, one squad contained a grunt deacon or high-ranking grunt (if they're in the game), they would be rallied to him instead of running.

Jackals: Able to bite players and use energy cutlasses. More dangerous up close than they currently are, but still likely to run away if they think they'll be killed otherwise. Maybe a bit faster running away though.

Elites: Ducking, dodging, rolling...like H1, essentially. they should be able to berserk again in that if hurt enough or annoyed enough, they would give up entirely on taking cover and just focus on hunting down their enemy, without regard for themselves. *maybe* dual swords, but then players would demand that too so...

Drones: Good as they are now, but more like a hive. Currently there are lots of them which gives the ILLUSION that they work as a hive. In reality? Out of about 40 on Crow's nest, only 10-15 are ever shooting at you at a given time, even on legendary. Perhaps if on higher difficulties more and more of them would choose to mob the player rather than his allies it could be interesting.

Hunters: ANGREH. they act great now, but aren't that scary in terms of looks. If their berserk when their brother died was a REAL berserk, rather than 'run forward 3 meters and shoot you, then repeat', it would be much better.




FLOOD (for main post):

If in game:

Currently flood are green and not very decayed, somehow spend the majority of their time doing nothing (yes, I know they're zombies, but still), and honestly aren't scary when you see them anymore.

COMBAT FORMS:

Varying states of decay. Ones created right in front of you would not be rotted, whereas ones that may be found underground or elsewhere you have not been may be rotting or damaged. The armour on elite combat forms could be twisted out of shape more as well. Outside of combat they would do a bit more than just walk around. It's hard to think of things for them to do, but maybe if they 'twitched' a bit more. If they collected bodies into piles, maybe infected some.

CARRIER FORMS:

fine as they are, just better textures and maybe rarely popping outside of combat, differing sizes and payloads...yeah. In combat? Just a bit faster, maybe less shots to kill if in the upper area.

PURE FORMS: Fine as they are besides out of combat. Maybe stalker could patrol areas, running through small spaces, and when not doing this could guard entrances. Ranged forms could hide in better places, maybe fold in on themselves outside of combat. Tank forms could wander more than they currently do, and outside of combat could guard certain areas. Maybe in combat they could literally stab you or allies if angered enough, rather than just swipe at you.

Pure forms are pretty good currently though, so they'd be small changes if any like more dangerous-looking ranged forms and more forms of them (carrier etc.)

SENTINELS:

multiple kinds like H2 had (but not H3), multiple ranks like H2 had, sentinel factories if possible, blah blah blah. Not much to change here, or anywhere in the forerunner department, except for variations and maybe repairing stuff outside of combat/accessing terminals.

yep.

  • 10.26.2009 8:39 PM PDT