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Subject: Halo: Reach - The Next Starting Weapon

Just so everyone understands, this is about creating a versitile weapon, in between close to medium range, that would not overpower other weapons in their optimum range. Names of weapons are just in reference to how they stand now.

In the Halo series, we have had three weapons that have been considered "starting" weapons for multiplayer. These three being the Assult Rifle (Halo 1 & 3), the SMG (Halo 2), and in some cases, the Battle Rifle (Halo 2 & 3). Each of these guns were considered prime starting weapons for various reasons.

The Assult Rifle
The Assult Rifle is an automatic gun, chosen for a starting weapon because it provides a useful weapon, that anyone can use, regardless of skill. Additinally, it is fairly balanced when compared to other weapons. Optimum use at semi-CQC range, and becomeing less effective when entering medium ranges.

The SMG
The SMG was chosen for the starting weapon of Halo 2, largely because of the introduction of duel wielding. Similar to the Assult Rifle, the only differences are a shorter range, larger ammo clip, and ability to be duel wielded. The advantage as a starter weapon, is the collection of two of these guns, leads to greater damage at all ranges, simply due to twice the number of bullets being put out.

The Battle Rifle
Although not the major starting weapon of Halo 2 & 3, the popularity of this weapon lead it to become a starting weapon in many gametypes. Unlike the Assult Rifle and SMG, the Battle Rifle shoots a three round burst. With a large clip, four shot kill ability, and long range, this weapon is prefered because of its versatility and skill gap. The versatility comes from being able to be used in almost any range, and possibly get a kill. The skill gap makes allows this gun to be used by anyone, but the best can dominate with it. Additionally, unlike the other two guns, the Battle Rifle has a 2x scope. However, some view the versatility of this gun as a negative because it can get a kill at virtualy any range.

Now, I will be speculating on the starting gun for Halo: Reach. I will begin with a few assumptions.

1. The main starting gun should be fully automatic. This is because burst/single shot weapons tend to be highly accurate. Although starter weapons should still be able to compete with other weapons, it should only within their specific ranges.

2. The main starting gun should not be duel wielded. Bullet output shoudn't be the main advantage. However, current assult rifle/SMG rate would be good.

3. The range of this weapon should be semi-CQC to semi-medium. This allows the weapon to be versitile, to an extent. It can be used close up, or up to a range, however, the automatic fire makes the damage drop off quickly passed its max range.

Now, I was going to create a new kind of a gun, that would fit these standards, but earlier today, I saw that it might already exist. This gun is the S-SMG, which will be used in the campaign of Halo 3: ODST.

From gameplay footage, this gun seems to fit the role of a versitile yet balanced starter weapon perfectly.

The S-SMG
The S-SMG provides automatic fire, making it easy to use for all players. However, when combined with a 2x scope, this gun become useful at medium ranges. The varying range makes this gun handy in a variety situation, but the range limit of automatic fire restricts it to this range. This prevents it from overpowering weapons that are optimum at medium to long ranges, such as the Battle Rifle or Carbine. Additionally, the SMG like power makes it less effective at semi-CQC, so it does not beat out weapons such as the assult rifle or plasma rifle at their optimum range.

This limited versitility would create a skill gap where skill would have a greater impact than with the assult rifle or SMG, but not as much as the Battle Rifle or Carbine, so situation of attack would still play a role.

Posted by: MickelPickel
Having played with the S-SMG, I'd have to say that it would be a good weapon for multiplayer. Why? Because it is a versatile close-medium range weapon that doesn't require too much knowledge to use, but has some setbacks ( recoil) that can be taken advantage of against the inexperienced enemy. Just take away the silenced part, and I'm okay with it as a starting weapon.

Discuss your thoughts on the S-SMG being made the starting weapon of Halo: Reach.

[Edited on 08.23.2009 11:02 AM PDT]

  • 08.22.2009 5:46 PM PDT
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the battle rifle wasn't around when Reach was fought.
god don't people pay attention to the games that the battle rifle only came out about the time that Halo 2 took place

  • 08.22.2009 5:50 PM PDT

Posted by: BIGFT 13
the battle rifle wasn't around when Reach was fought.
god don't people pay attention to the games that the battle rifle only came out about the time that Halo 2 took place

actually there was a prototype battle rifle in harvest which im pretty sure was before reach. So the Spartans most likely were allowed to use the prototyp BR

  • 08.22.2009 5:54 PM PDT
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but they didn't in the book soooo? now what? i don't think that the battle rifle will be in Reach.
personally i think they should put it in MP but make variants like a BR that can switch between 3 shot burst and single shots, this would be great with the AR.

  • 08.22.2009 5:59 PM PDT

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I will give my thoughts on how I hope these weapons will end up in Halo Reach.

Assault Rifle
45 rounds/magazine. 10 rounds/second ROF. automatic. 20 head/10 head shots to kill. accurate as Halo 1 AR in full auto, pulsed it is 2x as accurate as the Halo 3 AR pulsed, single shot it is more accurate than the H3 BR (but 3x weaker). 2x scope.

Battle Rifle
12 rounds/magazine. 2.5 rounds/second ROF. semi-auto, single-shot. 9 body/3 head shots to kill. accurate as Halo 1 pistol when fired slowly (no spread), fired fast is as accurate as Halo 3 BR (with random spread on each consecutive shot). 2x scope.

Magnum
10 rounds/magazine. as fast as you can pull the trigger ROF. semi-auto. 12 body/6 head shots to kill. accurate as Halo 3 magnum. 1.5x scope. silencer.

SMG
60 rounds/magazine. 20 rounds/second ROF. automatic. 30 body/15 head shots to kill. accurate as Halo 3 ODST SMG. 1.5x scope. silencer.

[Edited on 08.22.2009 6:16 PM PDT]

  • 08.22.2009 6:15 PM PDT

You all seem to be missing the point. I am asking if you think the S-SMG should be used as Reach's starting weapon because it could fill the role of a versitile, but limited, medium range weapon.

This is not about if the Ar or Br should be used or not. Just if this new weapon should be added.

  • 08.22.2009 6:19 PM PDT

Nice to see you again Cheehwawa. Although I would love to see some new adjustmets to H3 weapons in Halo: Reach. This is about adding a new weapon, that would keep balance with all current weapons, and provide the versitile, yet limited, starting weapon we need.

  • 08.22.2009 6:23 PM PDT

Friggin deal with it

Actually, Johnson's weapon of choice when he boarded the Kig-Yar ship was the BR-5 in Contact Harvest.

  • 08.22.2009 6:27 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

Honestly, I still prefer the Battle Rifle, although the S-SMG would be a nice weapon to have as a starter at sometimes.

  • 08.22.2009 6:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Council Elite 12
Honestly, I still prefer the Battle Rifle, although the S-SMG would be a nice weapon to have as a starter at sometimes.


I understand many prefer the BR because if its versatility, I like it too. But I feel it overpower other weapons, in the sence that it is too versitile. The S-SMG would still provide a BR-like skill gap, but would be limited. This would make room for other weapons (like the BR, plasma rifle, and mauler) to shine in their respective optimum ranges.

  • 08.22.2009 6:53 PM PDT

How bout we change the starting weapons depending on the map?

Honestly. There doesn't need to be one official starting weapon. Small maps could have AR Pistol starts, Large maps can have BR AR starts, and medium sized maps could have both. Or whatever equivilants of those weapons that are in the game. There, problem solved.

  • 08.22.2009 6:55 PM PDT

Touchdown! Hit it Marines!!

The Silenced SMG in ODST seems like it has the qualities of a good starting weapon. We'll have to see how it fairs in ODST before we can pass judgement though.

How about the weapon on the front of The Ghosts of Onyx? Does anyone remember that? The MA5K, I think? Not sure if that's what it's called. From what I remember it was a variant on the Battle Rifle, but wasn't as accurate or as powerful - more of a short-medium range weapon.

On a side note, I want to see some sort of secondary fire mode for some weapons, specifically shredder rounds for the AR that are mentioned in the novels. Anyone agree?

  • 08.22.2009 7:11 PM PDT

Posted by: Shane A175
The Silenced SMG in ODST seems like it has the qualities of a good starting weapon. We'll have to see how it fairs in ODST before we can pass judgement though.

The Silenced SMG? Yeah, its not in multiplayer for a reason, its broken.

Its a combination of the Spiker and the SMG, with no weakness of either weapon mixed in (the SMG's huge spread cone and the Spiker's bullet velocity).

Not a good multiplayer weapon. A great weapon to give for a shieldless wimp who is trying to go head to head with shielded close quarter combat minded enemies and survive.

  • 08.22.2009 7:15 PM PDT
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  • 08.22.2009 7:18 PM PDT

well the s-smg would be a good starter weapon for sure, but i believe that you may start with no weapon (as the planet is sneak attacked while your casually are walking down a hall) and you grab the first gun you get i.e. magnum off dead marine, plasma pistol from a grunt you beat to death. if you play the missions consecutively the guns you had carry over to the next level (certain restrictions of course, because a weapon may be brought into a level that can be broken by set weapon). if you start any mission besides the 1st one from the menu, you begin with a simple AR, or a long range weapon as the mission calls for. just my opinion.

  • 08.22.2009 7:23 PM PDT

Posted by: Shane A175
The Silenced SMG in ODST seems like it has the qualities of a good starting weapon. We'll have to see how it fairs in ODST before we can pass judgement though.

How about the weapon on the front of The Ghosts of Onyx? Does anyone remember that? The MA5K, I think? Not sure if that's what it's called. From what I remember it was a variant on the Battle Rifle, but wasn't as accurate or as powerful - more of a short-medium range weapon.

On a side note, I want to see some sort of secondary fire mode for some weapons, specifically shredder rounds for the AR that are mentioned in the novels. Anyone agree?


I'd love to see something with a grenade launcher, the brute shot is nice but its ONLY a grenade launcher. or like a silenced mode on some guns

  • 08.22.2009 7:26 PM PDT

Posted by: gil demoono
Posted by: Shane A175
The Silenced SMG in ODST seems like it has the qualities of a good starting weapon. We'll have to see how it fairs in ODST before we can pass judgement though.

How about the weapon on the front of The Ghosts of Onyx? Does anyone remember that? The MA5K, I think? Not sure if that's what it's called. From what I remember it was a variant on the Battle Rifle, but wasn't as accurate or as powerful - more of a short-medium range weapon.

On a side note, I want to see some sort of secondary fire mode for some weapons, specifically shredder rounds for the AR that are mentioned in the novels. Anyone agree?


I'd love to see something with a grenade launcher, the brute shot is nice but its ONLY a grenade launcher. or like a silenced mode on some guns

Why would you ever want a silenced mode on your guns? What gameplay purpous does that serve?

Are people not going to notice you are shooting them in the back of the head?

Are they not in communication via mics with their allies or are they not going to notice the orange flashes beneath the call sign of their ally to show they are getting shot?

If you want silenced weapons, mute your TV.

  • 08.22.2009 7:30 PM PDT

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Shane A175
The Silenced SMG in ODST seems like it has the qualities of a good starting weapon. We'll have to see how it fairs in ODST before we can pass judgement though.

The Silenced SMG? Yeah, its not in multiplayer for a reason, its broken.

Its a combination of the Spiker and the SMG, with no weakness of either weapon mixed in (the SMG's huge spread cone and the Spiker's bullet velocity).

Not a good multiplayer weapon. A great weapon to give for a shieldless wimp who is trying to go head to head with shielded close quarter combat minded enemies and survive.


This thread is about of the S-SMG being a good starting weapon for Halo: Reach because it would allow for everything from close to medium range combat, without overpowering another weapon when in that weapons optimum range. With SMG power, and a 2x to 3x scope range, it would create a versitile weapon, without messing with the already delicate weapon balance.

Each weapon has its own optimum range. Be it the BR at mid to long, the AR at semi-close to medium, or the shotgun at close. The SMG could put a threat to anything from close to mid, without overpowering anything that has the S-SMG its optimum range. Jack of all trades, master of none.

  • 08.22.2009 7:35 PM PDT

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: gil demoono
Posted by: Shane A175
The Silenced SMG in ODST seems like it has the qualities of a good starting weapon. We'll have to see how it fairs in ODST before we can pass judgement though.

How about the weapon on the front of The Ghosts of Onyx? Does anyone remember that? The MA5K, I think? Not sure if that's what it's called. From what I remember it was a variant on the Battle Rifle, but wasn't as accurate or as powerful - more of a short-medium range weapon.

On a side note, I want to see some sort of secondary fire mode for some weapons, specifically shredder rounds for the AR that are mentioned in the novels. Anyone agree?


I'd love to see something with a grenade launcher, the brute shot is nice but its ONLY a grenade launcher. or like a silenced mode on some guns

Why would you ever want a silenced mode on your guns? What gameplay purpous does that serve?

Are people not going to notice you are shooting them in the back of the head?

Are they not in communication via mics with their allies or are they not going to notice the orange flashes beneath the call sign of their ally to show they are getting shot?

If you want silenced weapons, mute your TV.


This isn't about making a silenced gun. I call it the S-SMG because thats what it is called in Halo 3: ODST. Bungie could easily rename it the Tactical SMG, or even Scoped SMG. It is about having a versitile, but not overpowering, starting weapon.

  • 08.22.2009 7:37 PM PDT

Posted by: Pocket Syndrome
This isn't about making a silenced gun. I call it the S-SMG because thats what it is called in Halo 3: ODST. Bungie could easily rename it the Tactical SMG, or even Scoped SMG. It is about having a versitile, but not overpowering, starting weapon.

I wasn't quoting your OP was I? I was specifically talking to the guy who was saying...

Posted by: gil demoono
I'd love to see something with a grenade launcher, the brute shot is nice but its ONLY a grenade launcher. or like a silenced mode on some guns


Hence I quoted him before I talked. I realize that your Super SMG idea isn't silenced, I am simply explaining to this one guy why silenced weapons make no sense for multiplayer.

  • 08.22.2009 7:45 PM PDT

Hylebos:

I understand you were not quoting me, but with some of the "selective" reading some forums users tend to use, I wanted to make sure everyone understands that this is not about making silenced gun or classes. All it takes is a few confused posters to turn this place into a flame war.

  • 08.22.2009 7:50 PM PDT

Vancouver BC, Canada.

I sure hope it's not the Battle Rifle.

  • 08.22.2009 7:50 PM PDT

It would certainly provide a Battle Rifle like skill gap, but to a limit. The battle rifle is good because it is highly versitile, that is, effective at virtually any range. The Tactical SMG (lets call it this from now on) would be a versitile weapon, but only from close to medium ranges. Beating no gun in that guns optimum range, but providing a threat to it outside of its optimum range.

  • 08.22.2009 7:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: BIGFT 13
but they didn't in the book soooo? now what? i don't think that the battle rifle will be in Reach.
personally i think they should put it in MP but make variants like a BR that can switch between 3 shot burst and single shots, this would be great with the AR.


Ya but it was in another book that happened before the fall of Reach called "Contact Harvest" so obviously it existed.

  • 08.23.2009 7:30 AM PDT

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