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Subject: Sierra-259 or Sierra-117? Which SPARTAN do you want to play in Reach?

Et Eärello Endorenna utúlien.
Sinome maruvan ar Hildinyar.
tenn' Ambar-metta!

Posted by: privet caboose
For the 100,000th time, Sierra =/=Spartan!


I wonder why are you so sure that Sierra 259 is not a Spartan, what if he is really a Spartan? what source you truly got that proofs 100% that Sierra 259 is not a Spartan?

You can't! why? cause no one knows until Reach is released! or Bungie release further information.

[Edited on 08.24.2009 4:05 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 4:03 PM PDT

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
*Neuvostoliiton hajoaminen oli vain showta
*Saksa on löytänyt uuden tavan vallata Eurooppa ilman yhtäkään panssarivaunua

Sierra is the only known codename for a Spartan so far used in Halo Universe. Calling Sierra for someone else besides a Spartan is nothing but confusing in Halo Universe right now and I don't think Bungie would do that especially in their trailer where Spartans are in major role. Sierra-259 is informing clearly that he and the Spartans that are on the ground, aren't going anywhere and I really can't figure out why shouldn't I believe him to be a Spartan because that's what you can only assume at the moment and most likely he is a Spartan.

[Edited on 08.24.2009 4:12 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 4:10 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I know that it seems like Sierra 259 is a spartan, but Bungie works like that, they like to confuse and trick people. You are just falling for their game. They are notorious for twisting words.

  • 08.24.2009 4:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: scotsoe
Nothing compared to almost everything that you've said.

Seriously though, why are a few of you so determined that he can't be a Spartan? Honestly, you're saying "This is Sierra 259. You've go Spartans on the ground, sir. We aren't going anywhere" doesn't even make it likely that he's a spartan. That sentence is only just short of complete evidence that he's a Spartan.

I'm not saying that i know for sure that he's a Spartan, but the trailer is quite obviously telling us he is. The only way he wouldn't be one is if Bungie just made the trailer and it has absolutely nothing to do with the game.


It's not that. The title of this thread implies that 259 is a spartan, when we really don't know. There is no evidence that makes spartans a more likely code for sierra than pelicans or a base, etc. Tell me why a spartan would be more likely than an ODST or a marine.

Here's an argument you can use though. The voice sounds very in control in a very hectic time, so it provides evidence to a spartan. But some non spartans have just as much nerves of steel as spartans (Johnson, Keyes, Lord Hood).

And Paladin52, i already debunked your "we" evidence (it's on the first page).

  • 08.24.2009 4:17 PM PDT

Posted by: P3P5I
There is no evidence that makes spartans a more likely code for sierra than pelicans or a base, etc. Tell me why a spartan would be more likely than an ODST or a marine.


Sierra is used previously only to refer to Master Chief (in Halo 3).


And Paladin52, i already debunked your "we" evidence (it's on the first page).


What if Sierra 259 is a marine around a group of Spartans? What pronoun would you use? (The answer is "we")

Spartans have higher ranks. They are far more likely to call in their positions (this is based off of my own military training - the radio operator isn't a lowly grunt). Furthermore, Spartans didn't work with the Marines very often, preferring to keep to themselves. I doubt that they wouldn't call in their own position, regardless if any Marines did.

He uses we because they are all in the same location together (Reach).

Reach is a BIG place. Unless you think that our military goes around yelling about how they are on Earth. The positioning given is always very specific.

[quote]It doesn't have to be a marine either. It could be a squadron of pelicans or longswords, etc. So you don't know if it is a spartan. Nobody does (except Bungie of course).[quote]

A squadron of longswords would have no idea what was going on on the ground. Unless the Pelicans dropped the Spartans off, it wouldn't know of them either. If the pelicans did drop them off, it would have been more like "Drop complete", not "Spartans on the ground". Also, nothing other than Spartans have been referred to by the callsign Sierra before in the games. I'm not claiming that I can fully prove it is a Spartan, but I think it is the likeliest outcome. The point of the thread is that assuming it IS a Spartan, would you rather have played as a new Spartan or MC again.

  • 08.24.2009 4:29 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Paladin52
Sierra is used previously only to refer to Master Chief (in Halo 3).

Sierra is also used for other military units. Just because you only play exclusively as MC and you see that his codename is Sierra, doesn't mean you can jump to that conclusion. It's just as equally likely that it is a marine squad.

Spartans have higher ranks. They are far more likely to call in their positions (this is based off of my own military training - the radio operator isn't a lowly grunt). Furthermore, Spartans didn't work with the Marines very often, preferring to keep to themselves. I doubt that they wouldn't call in their own position, regardless if any Marines did.
Spartan ranks fall under the enlisted ranks for the navy. The most famous Spartan, MC was a Master Chief Petty Officer, which is the highest enlisted rank you can get. Commissioned officer ranks are still higher than MC, that's why you never see MC commanding troops (if at all I believe). There are much higher ranks than MC on the battlefield.

Reach is a BIG place. Unless you think that our military goes around yelling about how they are on Earth. The positioning given is always very specific.
Lol that's not what I meant.

A squadron of longswords would have no idea what was going on on the ground. Unless the Pelicans dropped the Spartans off, it wouldn't know of them either. If the pelicans did drop them off, it would have been more like "Drop complete", not "Spartans on the ground". Also, nothing other than Spartans have been referred to by the callsign Sierra before in the games. I'm not claiming that I can fully prove it is a Spartan, but I think it is the likeliest outcome.
Those were just a few possibilities on what Sierra could mean. They could be a squad of marines, ODSTs, or any number of combat units guarding the MAC generators, but I think you knew that.

[Edited on 08.24.2009 5:03 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 5:02 PM PDT

They act all big and tough when their on camera with their friends and their guns. But when you break into their house in the middle of the night and stick a gun barrel in their face. They cry like babies and and piss their pants.
-U.S. Delta force operator on the Taliban.

It would suck if we played as the master cheif, we would just play one mission on the orbital station and then we would start playing Halo CE again.

  • 08.24.2009 5:15 PM PDT

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Paladin52
Sierra is used previously only to refer to Master Chief (in Halo 3).

Sierra is also used for other military units. Just because you only play exclusively as MC and you see that his codename is Sierra, doesn't mean you can jump to that conclusion. It's just as equally likely that it is a marine squad.


It may be possible, but it isn't as equally likely. Sierra has only ever been used to refer to Spartans in the games. The wording also points towards him being a Spartan (although it may be Bungie misdirection, there). Until more information, this is what I am going with.


Spartan ranks fall under the enlisted ranks for the navy. The most famous Spartan, MC was a Master Chief Petty Officer, which is the highest enlisted rank you can get. Commissioned officer ranks are still higher than MC, that's why you never see MC commanding troops (if at all I believe). There are much higher ranks than MC on the battlefield.


Commissioned officers don't even fight on the front lines very often in today's military. Mostly, you might see an Lt or a Captain, if that. And the radio operator is typically a higher-ranking enlisted personnel. Also, MC commands his Red Team of Spartans in the books, before they die at Reach.


Reach is a BIG place. Unless you think that our military goes around yelling about how they are on Earth. The positioning given is always very specific.
Lol that's not what I meant.


I know. I was being facetious. (lol most people won't even know what that means....)


Those were just a few possibilities on what Sierra could mean. They could be a squad of marines, ODSTs, or any number of combat units guarding the MAC generators, but I think you knew that.


I know. But my point was that, despite the fact that it COULD mean anything, in the PAST it has meant Spartan. It isn't bulletproof evidence, but it does point more towards that. My point is, IF Sierra 259 is a Spartan, would you want to play as him?

Further evidence: Earlier in the trailer, a female voice says, "Sierra 320, prepped for combat insertion." That at least limits it to ODSTs or Spartans, seeing as they are the only ones who are inserted directly into combat with drop pods.

[Edited on 08.24.2009 6:10 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 6:02 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Snipepown
Posted by: Tucker 051
There's a 99% chance that they're not Spartans.
Are you stupid? Read the fall of Reach


I have read all the books. What evidence can you give me that they are Spartans apart from one quote?
"You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." This could easily be a Pelican pilot talking.

  • 08.24.2009 8:47 PM PDT

[quote]Posted by: Urine competent
Playing as the Chief and the Arbiter in Halo 2 was cool, but it was too much of a change in character for my liking (going back and forth between 2 very different characters).

yeah the 1st time i played as the arbitor i shot the hell out of the elites then the grunts killed me and i say my dead body and said ooooooooooooooo

  • 08.24.2009 8:51 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

I would want to play as Sierra 259. John is an awesome character and I can't wait to play as him in some future game or see him in some future story, his involvement in the Battle of Reach is quite limited. The battle went on even after the Pillar of Autumn jumped, and was continuing when John returned.

  • 08.24.2009 9:08 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Snipepown
Posted by: Tucker 051
There's a 99% chance that they're not Spartans.
Are you stupid? Read the fall of Reach


I have read all the books. What evidence can you give me that they are Spartans apart from one quote?
"You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." This could easily be a Pelican pilot talking.
Yes, it could be a pelican pilot, but that still doesn't seem the fill the holes well. During the battle of Reach, most pelicans that tried to go ground-side were shot down (an incident such as this lead to the death of many Spartans). Plus, what would a pilot say "we're not going anywhere", unless referring to more pelican aircraft. In proper english, the word "we" is used to describe a group, including the one speaking.

Since Halo: Uprising and Halo 3, Spartan-117 has been referred to as "Sierra", that being the appropriate military call-sign for a Spartan. The change had little to nothing to do with story purposes, but to make the game seem more realistic. If there is a story reason, it would only have to do with the fact that the covenant would recognize "Spartan" right away. The use of "Sierra" would be an attempt the throw the Covenant off, if only a little.

[Edited on 08.24.2009 9:15 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 9:15 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Paladin52
I know. But my point was that, despite the fact that it COULD mean anything, in the PAST it has meant Spartan. It isn't bulletproof evidence, but it does point more towards that. My point is, IF Sierra 259 is a Spartan, would you want to play as him?

Further evidence: Earlier in the trailer, a female voice says, "Sierra 320, prepped for combat insertion." That at least limits it to ODSTs or Spartans, seeing as they are the only ones who are inserted directly into combat with drop pods.



Not in the past, Sierra wasn't used to Identify a spartan until the second battle for earth, months later.

  • 08.24.2009 9:17 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Snipepown
Posted by: Tucker 051
There's a 99% chance that they're not Spartans.
Are you stupid? Read the fall of Reach


I have read all the books. What evidence can you give me that they are Spartans apart from one quote?
"You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." This could easily be a Pelican pilot talking.
Yes, it could be a pelican pilot, but that still doesn't seem the fill the holes well. During the battle of Reach, most pelicans that tried to go ground-side were shot down (an incident such as this lead to the death of many Spartans). Plus, what would a pilot say "we're not going anywhere", unless referring to more pelican aircraft. In proper english, the word "we" is used to describe a group, including the one speaking.

Since Halo: Uprising and Halo 3, Spartan-117 has been referred to as "Sierra", that being the appropriate military call-sign for a Spartan. The change had little to nothing to do with story purposes, but to make the game seem more realistic. If there is a story reason, it would only have to do with the fact that the covenant would recognize "Spartan" right away. The use of "Sierra" would be an attempt the throw the Covenant off, if only a little.


Yeah, but John has been the only Spartan ever to be called Sierra and either way there has never been a Spartan tag number over 150.
There was NOT a second group of Spartans.

  • 08.24.2009 9:18 PM PDT

@Helveck

Just an Average Joe...

Anyone who selected Sierra 259, is a dirty traitor and a blasphemer.

And a Witch.

  • 08.24.2009 9:18 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Snipepown
Posted by: Tucker 051
There's a 99% chance that they're not Spartans.
Are you stupid? Read the fall of Reach


I have read all the books. What evidence can you give me that they are Spartans apart from one quote?
"You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." This could easily be a Pelican pilot talking.
Yes, it could be a pelican pilot, but that still doesn't seem the fill the holes well. During the battle of Reach, most pelicans that tried to go ground-side were shot down (an incident such as this lead to the death of many Spartans). Plus, what would a pilot say "we're not going anywhere", unless referring to more pelican aircraft. In proper english, the word "we" is used to describe a group, including the one speaking.

Since Halo: Uprising and Halo 3, Spartan-117 has been referred to as "Sierra", that being the appropriate military call-sign for a Spartan. The change had little to nothing to do with story purposes, but to make the game seem more realistic. If there is a story reason, it would only have to do with the fact that the covenant would recognize "Spartan" right away. The use of "Sierra" would be an attempt the throw the Covenant off, if only a little.


Yeah, but John has been the only Spartan ever to be called Sierra and either way there has never been a Spartan tag number over 150.
There was NOT a second group of Spartans.
Well, there was a possible second class of Spartans, but the canon status of this group has not been confirmed.

  • 08.24.2009 9:21 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Snipepown
Are you stupid? Read the fall of Reach


I have read all the books. What evidence can you give me that they are Spartans apart from one quote?
"You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." This could easily be a Pelican pilot talking.
Yes, it could be a pelican pilot, but that still doesn't seem the fill the holes well. During the battle of Reach, most pelicans that tried to go ground-side were shot down (an incident such as this lead to the death of many Spartans). Plus, what would a pilot say "we're not going anywhere", unless referring to more pelican aircraft. In proper english, the word "we" is used to describe a group, including the one speaking.

Since Halo: Uprising and Halo 3, Spartan-117 has been referred to as "Sierra", that being the appropriate military call-sign for a Spartan. The change had little to nothing to do with story purposes, but to make the game seem more realistic. If there is a story reason, it would only have to do with the fact that the covenant would recognize "Spartan" right away. The use of "Sierra" would be an attempt the throw the Covenant off, if only a little.


Yeah, but John has been the only Spartan ever to be called Sierra and either way there has never been a Spartan tag number over 150.
There was NOT a second group of Spartans.
Well, there was a possible second class of Spartans, but the canon status of this group has not been confirmed.


If you're talking about I Love Bees, that's a bunch of non-canon crap. They have been mentioned in the books but they never ended up being conscripted.

  • 08.24.2009 9:26 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Toa Freak
Posted by: Tucker 051
I have read all the books. What evidence can you give me that they are Spartans apart from one quote?
"You've got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere." This could easily be a Pelican pilot talking.
Yes, it could be a pelican pilot, but that still doesn't seem the fill the holes well. During the battle of Reach, most pelicans that tried to go ground-side were shot down (an incident such as this lead to the death of many Spartans). Plus, what would a pilot say "we're not going anywhere", unless referring to more pelican aircraft. In proper english, the word "we" is used to describe a group, including the one speaking.

Since Halo: Uprising and Halo 3, Spartan-117 has been referred to as "Sierra", that being the appropriate military call-sign for a Spartan. The change had little to nothing to do with story purposes, but to make the game seem more realistic. If there is a story reason, it would only have to do with the fact that the covenant would recognize "Spartan" right away. The use of "Sierra" would be an attempt the throw the Covenant off, if only a little.


Yeah, but John has been the only Spartan ever to be called Sierra and either way there has never been a Spartan tag number over 150.
There was NOT a second group of Spartans.
Well, there was a possible second class of Spartans, but the canon status of this group has not been confirmed.


If you're talking about I Love Bees, that's a bunch of non-canon crap. They have been mentioned in the books but they never ended up being conscripted.
Even parts of I love bees was considered canon. Yes, the books say that Halsey's second class was put on hold, and eventually scrapped, but that does not mean that the second class could have happened without Halsey's knowledge. Hell, I've seen a few theories that suggest there were more that 320 original candidates that were cut down to the 150 mentioned in the book. Not a whole lot of support for the theories, but not much to totally trash it, either.

  • 08.24.2009 9:35 PM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
For the 100,000th time, Sierra =/=Spartan!


Actually Yes it does. Sierra is code for Spartan.

It is called using phonetics.

Military Radio Language

[Edited on 08.24.2009 9:39 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 9:37 PM PDT

chris2pher

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
I want to play as Thel 'Vadamee.


you do Halo 2 and 3

  • 08.24.2009 9:38 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: Darklord of Sin
Posted by: privet caboose
For the 100,000th time, Sierra =/=Spartan!


Actually Yes it does. Sierra is code for Spartan.

It is called using phonetics.

Military Radio Language


Just because it was used in one situation doesn't mean it applies to all Spartans.

  • 08.24.2009 10:00 PM PDT

Expressing my strong liberal views without shame. Favorite quotes below:

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"One starts to live when he can live outside himself."

- Albert Einstein

So many people are posting arrogant posts here because they haven't read the books. Look guys, if you haven't read the Fall of Reach, you have no place to argue with those who have read the book. There is a backstory to all this, and theories must be formed according to those, not against those.

I highly doubt that Sierra 259 is a Spartan. Most people who think he is a Spartan think so because of two reasons; one, because "Sierra" is in the phrase. Let's get this clear guys. Sierra doesn't always have to mean Spartan. In this case it isn't because the Spartan IIs only went up to around 150 and Spartan IIIs had different codes. Sierra could also mean sniper or special ops force. The other reason people believe Sierra 259 is a Spartan is because he says "This is Sierra 259. We have Spartans on the ground sir, we aren't going anywhere." Let's interpret this. The first part I already cleared. "We have Spartans on the ground" doesn't mean he is a Spartan. It means their force or faction has the assistance of Spartans, and "we aren't going anywhere" can easily mean that since they and the Spartans have it under control, they aren't retreating.

You aren't going to be playing as Master Chief, or Sierra 259, which makes this thread completely obsolete. Why wouldn't you play as a Spartan (Sierra 259), and the MC wasn't on Reach when it was glassed. You MIGHT play as MC if this game is based on the entire book and not just the ending battle (which I hope).

[Edited on 08.24.2009 10:04 PM PDT]

  • 08.24.2009 10:02 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Posted by: Plasma Prestige
So many people are posting arrogant posts here because they haven't read the books. Look guys, if you haven't read the Fall of Reach, you have no place to argue with those who have read the book. There is a backstory to all this, and theories must be formed according to those, not against those.

I highly doubt that Sierra 259 is a Spartan. Most people who think he is a Spartan think so because of two reasons; one, because "Sierra" is in the phrase. Let's get this clear guys. Sierra doesn't always have to mean Spartan. In this case it isn't because the Spartan IIs only went up to around 150 and Spartan IIIs had different codes. Sierra could also mean sniper or special ops force. The other reason people believe Sierra 259 is a Spartan is because he says "This is Sierra 259. We have Spartans on the ground sir, we aren't going anywhere." Let's interpret this. The first part I already cleared. "We have Spartans on the ground" doesn't mean he is a Spartan. It means their force or faction has the assistance of Spartans, and "we aren't going anywhere" can easily mean that since they and the Spartans have it under control, they aren't retreating.

You aren't going to be playing as Master Chief, or Sierra 259, which makes this thread completely obsolete. Why wouldn't you play as a Spartan (Sierra 259), and the MC wasn't on Reach when it was glassed. You MIGHT play as MC if this game is based on the entire book and not just the ending battle (which I hope).
To start, the quote is "You've got Spartans on the ground," no "we". Since the speak is referring to Spartans at first, logic would dictate that the use of "we" is still referring to the Spartans, and that would imply that Sierra 259 is a Spartan.

Besides, the canon status of the second class of Spartan II's has been in flux since ilovebees. If bungie ever wanted, they could make that second class canon.

For the record, I've read all the books.

  • 08.24.2009 10:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: Simek1
wow dude, in the video, he sayes "This is SPARTAN 259." quit being stupid. they area ALL spartans.


He says Sierra you ignorant knob. Go read the books and brush up on canon before you make idiotic statements. That goes for the lot of you who think they are Spartans.

He does say Sierra in the Video
But in Halo 3 at the begining of the game they call John Sierra 117 so that must meen that 259 is a Spartan

  • 08.24.2009 11:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Who at Bungie stated that Sierra 259 is a Spartan? It could be a Pelican pilot for all we know.

  • 08.25.2009 12:06 AM PDT

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