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Subject: Halo: Reach to be the first FPS in TRUE 1080p?

Every time you sneeze into an open Febreze portal the boner-tree drive shaft will spin into ketchup. But it doesn't stop at the number two pizza bell, not even close. It continues into the seventy eight minute long pile of green, sobbing cheese trains with no more butter, but more like the steak owed the tin cans some lovin'.

Posted by: headcrab53
Posted by: Shadowz O Death
To determine if an image has an aspect ratio of 16:9, simply divide the number of horizontal lines of resolution by 16 and the number of vertical lines of resolution by 9. If both quotients are the same, then it has an aspect ratio of 16:9. For example, an image with a resolution of 1920x1080 has an aspect ratio of 16:9, because 1,920 divided by 16 equals 120 and 1,080 divided by 9 equals 120 (notice how both quotients are 120). Halo 3 has a resolution of 1152x640, so 1,152 divided by 16 equals 72 and 640 divided by 9 equals approximately 71.1. Both quotients are different, meaning that it does not have an aspect ratio of 16:9.
The image can still be 16:9 even though the resolution itself isn't. It just needs to be rendered so that the image will be the correct shape when scaled to 16:9.
Ok, I've made an example of this concept.

Here is a simple little cube I rendered at 640x480, which has a 4:3 aspect ratio.

Here is the same cube rendered with a 16:9 aspect ratio, but at 640x480, which is 4:3. It looks squished.

Here is the previous image scaled to a 16:9 resolution. It looks normal now.


Posted by: Paladin52
Downscaling the picture makes it look like crap. Most people don't have awesome 1080p TVs to play Xbox on.
If it's done properly, downscaling would actually be a form of anti-aliasing called supersampling.

  • 08.25.2009 11:29 PM PDT

"This is the definitive Halo made by the people who created Halo."

- Martin O'Donnell

Posted by: headcrab53
Posted by: headcrab53
Posted by: Shadowz O Death
To determine if an image has an aspect ratio of 16:9, simply divide the number of horizontal lines of resolution by 16 and the number of vertical lines of resolution by 9. If both quotients are the same, then it has an aspect ratio of 16:9. For example, an image with a resolution of 1920x1080 has an aspect ratio of 16:9, because 1,920 divided by 16 equals 120 and 1,080 divided by 9 equals 120 (notice how both quotients are 120). Halo 3 has a resolution of 1152x640, so 1,152 divided by 16 equals 72 and 640 divided by 9 equals approximately 71.1. Both quotients are different, meaning that it does not have an aspect ratio of 16:9.
The image can still be 16:9 even though the resolution itself isn't. It just needs to be rendered so that the image will be the correct shape when scaled to 16:9.
Ok, I've made an example of this concept.

Here is a simple little cube I rendered at 640x480, which has a 4:3 aspect ratio.

Here is the same cube rendered with a 16:9 aspect ratio, but at 640x480, which is 4:3. It looks squished.

Here is the previous image scaled to a 16:9 resolution. It looks normal now.


Posted by: Paladin52
Downscaling the picture makes it look like crap. Most people don't have awesome 1080p TVs to play Xbox on.
If it's done properly, downscaling would actually be a form of anti-aliasing called supersampling.

Thank you for the excellent example. Couldn't Bungie just make it easier on themselves by making the native aspect ratio 16:9?

  • 08.26.2009 9:48 AM PDT

Check out my youtube channel. http://www.youtube.com/user/ultratog1028

Posted by: Po0f MoNk3y
Sure would be fun for all the people who only have 1080i and below.

/sarcasm

  • 08.26.2009 12:03 PM PDT

4-1 Fenkell

???

  • 08.26.2009 12:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shadowz O Death
Hello everyone! As far as I know, there hasn't been a SINGLE FPS game for the Xbox 360 that is in TRUE 1080p high-definition. What I mean by TRUE 1080p is a NATIVE resolution of 1920x1080 (1,920 horizontal lines of resolution by 1,080 vertical lines of resolution, resulting in 2,073,600 pixels total). EVERY FPS game for the Xbox 360 that says "HDTV 1080p" on the back of the case actually has a lower resolution that is upscaled to 1920x1080. For example, the actual NATIVE resolution of Halo 3 is 1152x640, but it is upscaled to 1920x1080. As far as I know, the ONLY Xbox 360 games that are in TRUE 1080p high-definition are Fifa Street 3, Sacred 2: Fallen Angel, and Virtual Tennis 3 (Demo), none of which are FPS games. This is the PERFECT opportunity for Bungie to make a breakthrough and make Halo: Reach the VERY FIRST FPS game for the Xbox 360 that is in TRUE 1080p. If not true 1080p, then at least maintain an aspect ratio of 16:9. If it doesn't have an aspect ratio of 16:9, then the image would be stretched when being upscaled to 1920x1080, causing the image quality to degrade and circles to look like ovals. To determine if an image has an aspect ratio of 16:9, simply divide the number of horizontal lines of resolution by 16 and the number of vertical lines of resolution by 9. If both quotients are the same, then it has an aspect ratio of 16:9. For example, an image with a resolution of 1920x1080 has an aspect ratio of 16:9, because 1,920 divided by 16 equals 120 and 1,080 divided by 9 equals 120 (notice how both quotients are 120). Halo 3 has a resolution of 1152x640, so 1,152 divided by 16 equals 72 and 640 divided by 9 equals approximately 71.1. Both quotients are different, meaning that it does not have an aspect ratio of 16:9. Please Bungie, take this into consideration. This took me a while to type. I know TRUE 1080p might take up a lot of resources, so atleast maintain an aspect ratio of 16:9. What do you guys think...?

what he said..

  • 08.26.2009 12:37 PM PDT

Posted by:ScubaToaster
Posted by: HipiO7
This man, this man right here put it so eloquently that I actually cancelled my own 2000+ word long post.
/slow clap for respect


:)
The person who said participating is important, not winning, obviously never won anything.

I have a 1080p tv that i just bought sooo...yeah

  • 08.26.2009 12:40 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Considering the fact that the distinction between 1080P and 1080i/720p is negligible to most people, and the fact that unless your tv exceeds the typical 30"-40" range all that resolution is somewhat wasted, I doubt this would happen.

MS catered to the market with the 360, which is why HDMI inclusion happened later, as well as the 1080p patch. The system upscales very well to 1080p, but again most people really don't notice the change. As the market progresses i'm sure we'll see this, but I think next year is too soon.

Add to that the software issue, and the limited disk space. This is why the BD drive for the PS3 is benficial to the games, because they have the storage space for that type of information. Not to say the PS3 is fully superior to the 360, but that is one of the perks.

Besides a native 720p/1080i upconverted to 1080p is incredibly close, and most devs design the games so that they don't suffer graphically from the upconversion like some older games and movies do.

  • 08.26.2009 12:50 PM PDT

"This is the definitive Halo made by the people who created Halo."

- Martin O'Donnell

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Considering the fact that the distinction between 1080P and 1080i/720p is negligible to most people, and the fact that unless your tv exceeds the typical 30"-40" range all that resolution is somewhat wasted, I doubt this would happen.

MS catered to the market with the 360, which is why HDMI inclusion happened later, as well as the 1080p patch. The system upscales very well to 1080p, but again most people really don't notice the change. As the market progresses i'm sure we'll see this, but I think next year is too soon.

Add to that the software issue, and the limited disk space. This is why the BD drive for the PS3 is benficial to the games, because they have the storage space for that type of information. Not to say the PS3 is fully superior to the 360, but that is one of the perks.

Besides a native 720p/1080i upconverted to 1080p is incredibly close, and most devs design the games so that they don't suffer graphically from the upconversion like some older games and movies do.

I didn't think that games on the Playstation 3 were actually on blu-ray discs...?

[Edited on 08.26.2009 5:59 PM PDT]

  • 08.26.2009 5:53 PM PDT

Yes, PS3 games are actually on blu-ray discs.

  • 08.26.2009 6:32 PM PDT

Every time you sneeze into an open Febreze portal the boner-tree drive shaft will spin into ketchup. But it doesn't stop at the number two pizza bell, not even close. It continues into the seventy eight minute long pile of green, sobbing cheese trains with no more butter, but more like the steak owed the tin cans some lovin'.

It seems that it needs to be pointed out again. Using 1080p instead of 720p DOES NOT require more disc space.

  • 08.26.2009 6:37 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: headcrab53
It seems that it needs to be pointed out again. Using 1080p instead of 720p DOES NOT require more disc space.


Your correct from a hardware playback standpoint, but HD content does require more storage space. If the game is going to have any kind length to it with stunning visuals, good physics, etc, etc, it will require more space. A good example is MGS4, that thing made good use of the BD format.

  • 08.27.2009 11:00 AM PDT

Every time you sneeze into an open Febreze portal the boner-tree drive shaft will spin into ketchup. But it doesn't stop at the number two pizza bell, not even close. It continues into the seventy eight minute long pile of green, sobbing cheese trains with no more butter, but more like the steak owed the tin cans some lovin'.

Things like textures, models, sound, and prerendered videos will require more disc space. Things like physics and shaders do as well, but not as much. But simply having more disc space won't improve the graphics if the GPU itself isn't fast enough to render these things or if there's not enough RAM to actually store it. And both the 360 and PS3 are very limited when it comes to RAM. But for games with a lot of content, more disc space can be useful.

But a game rendered at 1080p will use no more space than it would at 720p, since the image is created in real time by the GPU. With movies, the images are stored on the disc and played back, so movies do require more disc space for higher resolutions.

  • 08.27.2009 11:37 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: headcrab53
Things like textures, models, sound, and prerendered videos will require more disc space. Things like physics and shaders do as well, but not as much. But simply having more disc space won't improve the graphics if the GPU itself isn't fast enough to render these things or if there's not enough RAM to actually store it. And both the 360 and PS3 are very limited when it comes to RAM. But for games with a lot of content, more disc space can be useful.

But a game rendered at 1080p will use no more space than it would at 720p, since the image is created in real time by the GPU. With movies, the images are stored on the disc and played back, so movies do require more disc space for higher resolutions.


I agree, you pretty much just elaborated what i said.

  • 08.27.2009 11:46 AM PDT

Isn't 640p the Halo standard? :P

  • 08.27.2009 11:53 AM PDT

Every time you sneeze into an open Febreze portal the boner-tree drive shaft will spin into ketchup. But it doesn't stop at the number two pizza bell, not even close. It continues into the seventy eight minute long pile of green, sobbing cheese trains with no more butter, but more like the steak owed the tin cans some lovin'.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
I agree, you pretty much just elaborated what i said.
Ya, but there's a lot of people on the forums that don't understand these things so it can be good to elaborate.

I once saw someone post that actually believed XBox 360 games couldn't be rendered in HD because they use DVD's. I died a little inside...

  • 08.27.2009 12:03 PM PDT

"This is the definitive Halo made by the people who created Halo."

- Martin O'Donnell

Posted by: GanonSmash
Isn't 640p the Halo standard? :P

Yes, 1152x640 is 640p (640 horizontal lines of resolution).

[Edited on 08.27.2009 2:48 PM PDT]

  • 08.27.2009 2:47 PM PDT
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If they have enough disc space, then yes. But I wouldn't want them to sacrifice something else to fit the game in 1080p on the disc.

More importantly, I'd rather they focus on the gameplay, story, music, and multiplayer. Graphics are a nice touch if they have extra time, but gameplay is more important.

  • 08.27.2009 2:55 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: headcrab53
Posted by: SweetTRIX
I agree, you pretty much just elaborated what i said.
Ya, but there's a lot of people on the forums that don't understand these things so it can be good to elaborate.

I once saw someone post that actually believed XBox 360 games couldn't be rendered in HD because they use DVD's. I died a little inside...


Hahaha, fair enough. It is very amazing some of the misconceptions that are to be had on these forums.

Posted by: Shadowz O Death
Posted by: GanonSmash
Isn't 640p the Halo standard? :P

Yes, 1152x640 is 640p (640 horizontal lines of resolution).


I cannot remember the exact explaination, but Bungie said in an old update that the game runs two layers. The guy jokingly said it's technically 1280p. If I can find the update i'll insert it.

  • 08.27.2009 2:59 PM PDT

"This is the definitive Halo made by the people who created Halo."

- Martin O'Donnell

Posted by: Goalie Master 8
If they have enough disc space, then yes. But I wouldn't want them to sacrifice something else to fit the game in 1080p on the disc.

More importantly, I'd rather they focus on the gameplay, story, music, and multiplayer. Graphics are a nice touch if they have extra time, but gameplay is more important.

Again, whether it would fit on the disc is not the problem. The problem is whether or not the GPU would be able to handle all of the resources.

  • 08.27.2009 3:19 PM PDT

Estne volumen in toga an solum tibi libet me videre?

Nothing suits me like a suit.

Nothing is true. Everything is permitted.

Posted by: Goalie Master 8
If they have enough disc space, then yes. But I wouldn't want them to sacrifice something else to fit the game in 1080p on the disc.
... Did you not even read the explanation about why 1080p won't take up any more disk space?

  • 08.27.2009 4:33 PM PDT

Every time you sneeze into an open Febreze portal the boner-tree drive shaft will spin into ketchup. But it doesn't stop at the number two pizza bell, not even close. It continues into the seventy eight minute long pile of green, sobbing cheese trains with no more butter, but more like the steak owed the tin cans some lovin'.

A PC version of the game would be nice. Call of Duty 4 runs at 1024x600 on the 360. I have the PC version and play at 1680x1050. That's almost 3 times higher.

  • 08.27.2009 4:35 PM PDT

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