Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Halo: Reach another bandwagon jump? Or Back to Roots
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Reach MMO. Here's to hoping.

And the people that believe "the hardcore playlists would be more popular if the rules were strictly MLG" can come off it, now. If you're not willing to support something close to your own setup, there's no reason for us to believe that cloning our own lists and stripping the variety down will attract more people. -- Shishka, Bungie.net

People who started on Halo CE think it's the best.

People who started on Halo 2 think it's the best.

People who started on Halo 3 think it's the best.


Why? Not because one of the games is "better" than another, but the absolute euphoria you get from playing Halo for the first time. They really are great games. However, every subsiquent Halo game that comes out just can't restore that same feeling that they got with that first Halo game that they played.

I have news for you...that feeling is never gonna come back, even if they made a Halo game that is exactly like the one that you enjoyed best and fixed all the flaws that you thought there were.

But there is great news, there is a way for you to get a that feeling again! Bungie needs to make a totally new, revamped Halo game. That is the only thing that give you that first time, this is amazing, euphoria fix that all of these Halo CE lovers are seeking.

Instead of trying to move backwards and try and recreate an experience that you will never have again, Bungie needs ot create the NEXT great gaming experience.

  • 08.27.2009 7:23 AM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.

I actually think Campaign should be priority. All this guys gives a -blam!- about is multiplayer, so I don't really agree with him.

  • 08.27.2009 11:20 AM PDT

Posted by: SiKe X
Well, I obviously see that the Halo 3, and the ODST forums are full of fan boys. However, most of them never laid touch on Halo 1 or Halo 2 and saw the greatness and simplicity of those games.

So this is the question. Will Halo: Reach go back to its roots. Where a skill gap is significant, where the ranking system is more like Halo 2's, and not crap like Halo 3. Will we see simple maps, where there isn't 30,000 cracks a grenade can bounce randomly. Will we see maps with good structure rather then detail. Will we see a gun that is finally consistent, and beat downs that actually go to the person with quicker reflexes.

OR will we follow the nut cases who fell in love with Halo 3 at first sight, that jumped on the Halo series Bandwagon. Will we see more barbie dress up armor permutations, will we see every kid in Halo with a bought 50. Will we see the Halo: Runescape, or Halo with Horde, and Zombies(ODST). Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements. Will we remakes of maps that are terrible, or maps that are two big for competitive play. Will we see a more newb friendly game where anybody can win, hence beat downs where even if you are slow you can kill a pro now. Is Halo: Reach going to have all that extra junk surrounding the actual core gameplay like theater, and forge.

Or will the Halo community finally see that what Halo is, is a fast paced shooter. That doesn't need different armor, 50 weapons, newb friendly gameplay, huge maps, theater, forge, screenshots, firefight, maps with detail, graphics, or achievements.

What made Halo 1 and Halo 2 great was this: Core gameplay was fast paced, competitive for hardcore gamers, and fun for casual. With simple, but with good maps and a huge skill gap.


Obvious that you can't play halo 3 is 100%

Obvious troll is obvious

you are FAIL

  • 08.27.2009 12:14 PM PDT
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  • Veteran Legendary Member

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.
Actually "Survival mode" gametypes existed longe before either of those two. Bungie used it before in Marathon, so it was actually Gears and CoD stealing from them.

  • 08.27.2009 12:36 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: CrazyJediMaster
Really, clearly someone doesn't spend enough time around casual players.
Most of my friends on Xbox LIVE are casual. That's why I don't have a 50.Most of them think Halo 3 is catered to the Hardcorist.But they have a limited scope on gaming since they are not very serious about it. So why believe what they say if they have nothing to form their opinions on other than "hay this is hard 4 me what the hells bungie lol im gonna sue lol jk jk i love u."Just because a weapon has a spread does not make it inconsistent.Yes it does. You can land 5 perfect shots on someone's head, while someone else can be aiming at you but his aim is slightly off. Maybe his final bullet from his 4th burst will randomly curve to the left and hit you in the head, while your third bullet may have shot clear of his head. You had better aim but he killed you. Thus the game is random/inconsistent.And I have always that Halo 3 has had some of the most unique weapons, by comparison.Unique looking? Yes, there are a ton of weapons in Halo 3, most of which look very unique.

But the way they act? They're all so similar. Halo 3 has two midrange guns (BR and Carbine), while the majority of the rest (except the Sniper and Laser) aren't worth using past close range. This should be fixed so the BR isn't overused as it was in Halo 2 and 3.

  • 08.27.2009 1:07 PM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

I don't see anything wrong with different armour permutations.

  • 08.27.2009 1:10 PM PDT

Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
I don't see anything wrong with different armour permutations.


Yeah I know. Why is that even a complaint?

Also like someone else said why does he only have one question mark?

  • 08.27.2009 1:15 PM PDT

Unfortunately, I don't believe the current Bungie team even has the ability to craft a truly competitive game like Halo CE. Even if they wanted to, I honestly do not think the gameplay team has the skill to make a game that caters to both crowds.

Bungie has a great team of artists, programmers, and feature designers. They created awesome features like forge and theatre. Unfortunately, Bungie's gameplay design is sorely lacking.

[Edited on 08.27.2009 1:25 PM PDT]

  • 08.27.2009 1:25 PM PDT

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: TheBigShow
Unfortunately, I don't believe the current Bungie team even has the ability to craft a truly competitive game like Halo CE. Even if they wanted to, I honestly do not think the gameplay team has the skill to make a game that caters to both crowds.

Bungie has a great team of artists, programmers, and feature designers. They created awesome features like forge and theatre. Unfortunately, Bungie's gameplay design is sorely lacking.

It went downhill RIGHT AFTER Halo: CE.

I think $ had something to do with it, money changes people.


Actually, a lot of the team that did Halo CE left.

Thats why Halo 2 and Halo 3 are garbage by comparison.

  • 08.27.2009 1:44 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

I find it funny when people chastise those that prefer H3 gameplay over H2 gameplay, and give them grief for preferring a "simpler" system. Being as H2 simplified the great balance and high learning curve of Halo CE, and openned the floodgates for the biggest killer of balance (BR), I don't see why H2 gameplay is hearlded as a "better" choice.

In regards to Reach, I want it to be it's own game, and not just a new coat of paint on the same old. I would love for them to capture the same feel that CE had, with a more appropriate learning curve that rewards actual aiming and tactical gameplay that goes beyond spawn camping/trapping, but I don't want a CE clone to be made.

We'll see what Bungie does, i'm sure whatever it will be it will at least be entertaining on some level. But you can't pleae everyone.

[Edited on 08.27.2009 1:54 PM PDT]

  • 08.27.2009 1:53 PM PDT

H2 Forever

Im gonna break this down a step by step and present my case
Posted by: SiKe X
Well, I obviously see that the Halo 3, and the ODST forums are full of fan boys. However, most of them never laid touch on Halo 1 or Halo 2 and saw the greatness and simplicity of those games.


I played both Halo 1 and 2 just for credibility reasons



So this is the question. Will Halo: Reach go back to its roots. Where a skill gap is significant, where the ranking system is more like Halo 2's, and not crap like Halo 3. Will we see simple maps, where there isn't 30,000 cracks a grenade can bounce randomly. Will we see maps with good structure rather then detail. Will we see a gun that is finally consistent, and beat downs that actually go to the person with quicker reflexes.


I agree somewhat on the skill gap ( the only reason halo 3 is like it is now is to attract a wider range of casual gamers who feel they can compete) (P.S I loved Halo 2's ranking system)
Your idea on simple maps threw me off; although my favorite maps were Sanctuary, Midship, and Lockout, I see where you are coming from how a simple map can be great (Blood Gulch/Coagulation) but sometimes you need a map that you can just admire it's beauty and also have fun. I'm gonna ignore the comment about the cracks because I'm not a game developer so i cant explain a way to fix or explain it to you. I do admit to some point Detail > or = Structure of maps in Halo 3.

Maybe you missed the whole Beat down dilemma but due to The Halo 3 Population and servers and lag the compromise of "Who has more Health wins" or else you get the "I definatley beat that guy down first but because he is host i died."




OR will we follow the nut cases who fell in love with Halo 3 at first sight, that jumped on the Halo series Bandwagon. Will we see more barbie dress up armor permutations, will we see every kid in Halo with a bought 50. Will we see the Halo: Runescape, or Halo with Horde, and Zombies(ODST). Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements. Will we remakes of maps that are terrible, or maps that are two big for competitive play. Will we see a more newb friendly game where anybody can win, hence beat downs where even if you are slow you can kill a pro now. Is Halo: Reach going to have all that extra junk surrounding the actual core gameplay like theater, and forge.


I agree with the nutcases and Band-wagoners. As for the Armor Permutations i thought was a beautiful addition. Although they are never mentioned in the Halo-verse if you read their descriptions you will find out some of them are rejected armor permutations. Ignoring Halo Runescape Horde and Zombies remark unless you don't recall the only reason for zombies being added in Halo 3.

Haha Never have i seen a two year old on halo. Achievements Have nothing to do with Bungie or Halo other than they make them. this was an Xbox 360 idea. BTW achievements increase the replay value by ALOT. No comment on my precious Lockout disaster but the Midship remake looks quite amazing. Too Big for competitive play? I hope you don't mean Sandtrap or anything like that especially when you know those are for BTB. BTB was great in Halo 2 but there are only oh i cant remember.. 3.. that were big enough. Ascension, Coagulation, Contamination. terminal maybe, headlong, that underground one, Oh wait that's 6.

Lol hope you aren't referring to yourself as pro. Also Forge and Theater are great. If you played customs games in Halo 2 as i did then you would know the limited amount of options made making new games hard although we had many. tremors,Lava Man, Infection, Cat and Mouse just to name a few.




Or will the Halo community finally see that what Halo is, is a fast paced shooter. That doesn't need different armor, 50 weapons, newb friendly gameplay, huge maps, theater, forge, screenshots, firefight, maps with detail, graphics, or achievements.

What made Halo 1 and Halo 2 great was this: Core gameplay was fast paced, competitive for hardcore gamers, and fun for casual. With simple, but with good maps and a huge skill gap.


Different Armor = Yes, 50 Weapons = not seen in Halo CE Halo 2 or Halo 3 but im guessing that is just a hyperbole Huge Maps = seen in Halo CE and Halo 2 haha, Theater= Yes, Forge = Yes, Screenshots = Yes, Firefight = Yes to a degree, Maps with detail= hope you aren't serious, Graphics= No because i prefer 8-Bit Halo haha, Achievements= Yes Competetive for Hardcore Gamers = Play MLG playlist. Fun For Casual= It's Called social Slayer or BTB. Huge Skill Gap= Possibly, Simple Maps= if they are like Midship i will take them

After reading through your post the real question is Did you play Halo:CE and Halo 2

  • 08.27.2009 2:30 PM PDT
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  • Honorable Heroic Member

Halo 3 is for noobs. Gg NoRe.

Posted by: ZHomitz9229
Im gonna break this down a step by step and present my case
Posted by: SiKe X
Well, I obviously see that the Halo 3, and the ODST forums are full of fan boys. However, most of them never laid touch on Halo 1 or Halo 2 and saw the greatness and simplicity of those games.


I played both Halo 1 and 2 just for credibility reasons



So this is the question. Will Halo: Reach go back to its roots. Where a skill gap is significant, where the ranking system is more like Halo 2's, and not crap like Halo 3. Will we see simple maps, where there isn't 30,000 cracks a grenade can bounce randomly. Will we see maps with good structure rather then detail. Will we see a gun that is finally consistent, and beat downs that actually go to the person with quicker reflexes.


I agree somewhat on the skill gap ( the only reason halo 3 is like it is now is to attract a wider range of casual gamers who feel they can compete) (P.S I loved Halo 2's ranking system)
Your idea on simple maps threw me off; although my favorite maps were Sanctuary, Midship, and Lockout, I see where you are coming from how a simple map can be great (Blood Gulch/Coagulation) but sometimes you need a map that you can just admire it's beauty and also have fun. I'm gonna ignore the comment about the cracks because I'm not a game developer so i cant explain a way to fix or explain it to you. I do admit to some point Detail > or = Structure of maps in Halo 3.

Maybe you missed the whole Beat down dilemma but due to The Halo 3 Population and servers and lag the compromise of "Who has more Health wins" or else you get the "I definatley beat that guy down first but because he is host i died."




OR will we follow the nut cases who fell in love with Halo 3 at first sight, that jumped on the Halo series Bandwagon. Will we see more barbie dress up armor permutations, will we see every kid in Halo with a bought 50. Will we see the Halo: Runescape, or Halo with Horde, and Zombies(ODST). Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements. Will we remakes of maps that are terrible, or maps that are two big for competitive play. Will we see a more newb friendly game where anybody can win, hence beat downs where even if you are slow you can kill a pro now. Is Halo: Reach going to have all that extra junk surrounding the actual core gameplay like theater, and forge.


I agree with the nutcases and Band-wagoners. As for the Armor Permutations i thought was a beautiful addition. Although they are never mentioned in the Halo-verse if you read their descriptions you will find out some of them are rejected armor permutations. Ignoring Halo Runescape Horde and Zombies remark unless you don't recall the only reason for zombies being added in Halo 3.

Haha Never have i seen a two year old on halo. Achievements Have nothing to do with Bungie or Halo other than they make them. this was an Xbox 360 idea. BTW achievements increase the replay value by ALOT. No comment on my precious Lockout disaster but the Midship remake looks quite amazing. Too Big for competitive play? I hope you don't mean Sandtrap or anything like that especially when you know those are for BTB. BTB was great in Halo 2 but there are only oh i cant remember.. 3.. that were big enough. Ascension, Coagulation, Contamination. terminal maybe, headlong, that underground one, Oh wait that's 6.

Lol hope you aren't referring to yourself as pro. Also Forge and Theater are great. If you played customs games in Halo 2 as i did then you would know the limited amount of options made making new games hard although we had many. tremors,Lava Man, Infection, Cat and Mouse just to name a few.




Or will the Halo community finally see that what Halo is, is a fast paced shooter. That doesn't need different armor, 50 weapons, newb friendly gameplay, huge maps, theater, forge, screenshots, firefight, maps with detail, graphics, or achievements.

What made Halo 1 and Halo 2 great was this: Core gameplay was fast paced, competitive for hardcore gamers, and fun for casual. With simple, but with good maps and a huge skill gap.


Different Armor = Yes, 50 Weapons = not seen in Halo CE Halo 2 or Halo 3 but im guessing that is just a hyperbole Huge Maps = seen in Halo CE and Halo 2 haha, Theater= Yes, Forge = Yes, Screenshots = Yes, Firefight = Yes to a degree, Maps with detail= hope you aren't serious, Graphics= No because i prefer 8-Bit Halo haha, Achievements= Yes Competetive for Hardcore Gamers = Play MLG playlist. Fun For Casual= It's Called social Slayer or BTB. Huge Skill Gap= Possibly, Simple Maps= if they are like Midship i will take them

After reading through your post the real question is Did you play Halo:CE and Halo 2


To answer your question. I have.

Name one "good" competitive map in Halo 3, that is just as good as an MLG Halo 2, or Halo:CE map.

You can't.

Why is it that so many kids are playing in the MLG circuit now? I wonder, right after the addition of Halo 3. Why do so many people have a level 50? When in Halo 2, a 32 was equivalent.

  • 08.27.2009 5:23 PM PDT

So you're basically saying that we should strip the game so it has no features whatsoever, while only having a campaign mode and a simple Matchmaking system?

Talk about a step in the wrong direction.

  • 08.27.2009 6:39 PM PDT

Posted by: UrbanSolder000
So you're basically saying that we should strip the game so it has no features whatsoever, while only having a campaign mode and a simple Matchmaking system?

Talk about a step in the wrong direction.


QFT.

Seriously.

  • 08.27.2009 7:03 PM PDT
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SikeX are you insane! Honestly your complaining about everything! You want to get rid of some amazing features just cause you think halo should go back to it's roots... Sure the beatdowns could definitely use some work but getting rid of forge, theater and firefight?! Those features are amazing! What your asking for will only accomodate to a certain crowd, if Bungie listened to your ridiculous rant they would loose so many fans and Halo's popularity would go down. Because a simple fps is very fun, but old and with new generation gamers who look for things such as cutomization and things like forge, etc. this simple fps you wish for just won't cut it.

Halo Reach can still go back to its roots in certain ways (for example by having faster paced gameplay) but the things Bungie has done with Halo 3 are just amazing and for them to get rid of them, is just plain stupid.

  • 08.27.2009 7:11 PM PDT
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Posted by: SiKe X
Well, I obviously see that the Halo 3, and the ODST forums are full of fan boys. However, most of them never laid touch on Halo 1 or Halo 2 and saw the greatness and simplicity of those games.

So this is the question. Will Halo: Reach go back to its roots. Where a skill gap is significant, where the ranking system is more like Halo 2's, and not crap like Halo 3. Will we see simple maps, where there isn't 30,000 cracks a grenade can bounce randomly. Will we see maps with good structure rather then detail. Will we see a gun that is finally consistent, and beat downs that actually go to the person with quicker reflexes.

OR will we follow the nut cases who fell in love with Halo 3 at first sight, that jumped on the Halo series Bandwagon. Will we see more barbie dress up armor permutations, will we see every kid in Halo with a bought 50. Will we see the Halo: Runescape, or Halo with Horde, and Zombies(ODST). Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements. Will we remakes of maps that are terrible, or maps that are two big for competitive play. Will we see a more newb friendly game where anybody can win, hence beat downs where even if you are slow you can kill a pro now. Is Halo: Reach going to have all that extra junk surrounding the actual core gameplay like theater, and forge.

Or will the Halo community finally see that what Halo is, is a fast paced shooter. That doesn't need different armor, 50 weapons, newb friendly gameplay, huge maps, theater, forge, screenshots, firefight, maps with detail, graphics, or achievements.

What made Halo 1 and Halo 2 great was this: Core gameplay was fast paced, competitive for hardcore gamers, and fun for casual. With simple, but with good maps and a huge skill gap.
I noticed that you didn't mention campaign...I don't need another reason to get REACH.

  • 08.27.2009 7:32 PM PDT

"I only speak two languages: English and Bad English,"
-Bruce Willis, The Fifth Element

I escaped into the waves. The waves...
I went Underground!

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.

True, but you got to admit, Zombies is fun and Bungie knows it. If they took out Firefight, Bungie would lose more half of their customers for ODST.

  • 08.27.2009 7:51 PM PDT
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  • Honorable Heroic Member

Halo 3 is for noobs. Gg NoRe.

Posted by: UrbanSolder000
So you're basically saying that we should strip the game so it has no features whatsoever, while only having a campaign mode and a simple Matchmaking system?

Talk about a step in the wrong direction.


Halo 1 and Halo 2, had none of those features. So how is it "stripping", and I never once said a simple matchmaking system. I even referred to Halo 2 as a better one then Halo 3.

Posted by: matdan
SikeX are you insane! Honestly your complaining about everything! You want to get rid of some amazing features just cause you think halo should go back to it's roots... Sure the beatdowns could definitely use some work but getting rid of forge, theater and firefight?! Those features are amazing! What your asking for will only accomodate to a certain crowd, if Bungie listened to your ridiculous rant they would loose so many fans and Halo's popularity would go down. Because a simple fps is very fun, but old and with new generation gamers who look for things such as cutomization and things like forge, etc. this simple fps you wish for just won't cut it.

Halo Reach can still go back to its roots in certain ways (for example by having faster paced gameplay) but the things Bungie has done with Halo 3 are just amazing and for them to get rid of them, is just plain stupid.


Call me insane, stupid, and dumb. But look around. This community is consumed by this "Extra" stuff that they don't even have a clue what the real gameplay is. I just believe that a game should sell on core gameplay, and not the fact that it has "Forge, and theater".

Halo: CE and Halo 2 were great games. They didn't have that nonsense. They had all sorts of fun things to do for the casual gamer, like exploring maps, glitches and etc. However, it also had a consistent weapon that was used very good for the Competitive crowd, and it had some awesome maps that were great for fast paced gameplay.

Halo 3 may be a "Perfect Game" in the sense that it doesn't have many glitches. But sorry to burst your bubble, glitches actually make a game fun. Especially when it doesn't effect GAMEPLAY. I remember spending hours messing around with friends in all these different maps trying to get out.

So I want you to think. All these games coming out are becoming easier, and easier. Pretty soon every kid who plays a video game will be in the MLG Circuit, and the population will continue to grow obese, and people will start acting like playing video games is a career. Do you want that? Because that's the next generation of gaming. The only games that actually take some skill now are games like Starcraft which is completely different from an FPS.

  • 08.27.2009 9:45 PM PDT

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