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Subject: Halo: Reach another bandwagon jump? Or Back to Roots

Being an Elite is its own reward.

Posted by: SiKe X
Well, I obviously see that the Halo 3, and the ODST forums are full of fan boys. However, most of them never laid touch on Halo 1 or Halo 2 and saw the greatness and simplicity of those games.

So this is the question. Will Halo: Reach go back to its roots. Where a skill gap is significant, where the ranking system is more like Halo 2's, and not crap like Halo 3. Will we see simple maps, where there isn't 30,000 cracks a grenade can bounce randomly. Will we see maps with good structure rather then detail. Will we see a gun that is finally consistent, and beat downs that actually go to the person with quicker reflexes.

OR will we follow the nut cases who fell in love with Halo 3 at first sight, that jumped on the Halo series Bandwagon. Will we see more barbie dress up armor permutations, will we see every kid in Halo with a bought 50. Will we see the Halo: Runescape, or Halo with Horde, and Zombies(ODST). Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements. Will we remakes of maps that are terrible, or maps that are two big for competitive play. Will we see a more newb friendly game where anybody can win, hence beat downs where even if you are slow you can kill a pro now. Is Halo: Reach going to have all that extra junk surrounding the actual core gameplay like theater, and forge.

Or will the Halo community finally see that what Halo is, is a fast paced shooter. That doesn't need different armor, 50 weapons, newb friendly gameplay, huge maps, theater, forge, screenshots, firefight, maps with detail, graphics, or achievements.

What made Halo 1 and Halo 2 great was this: Core gameplay was fast paced, competitive for hardcore gamers, and fun for casual. With simple, but with good maps and a huge skill gap.


I love Halo 3, and played my fair share of Halo CE and Halo 2. So don't even start saying that everyone that enjoys Halo 3 doesn't know about the good old games.

Part of making a game is moving forward. Are you saying that everything should be scrapped that wasn't in the first two games? Do you expect a game to be a success if it doesn't have new features? And what's wrong with going achievement hunting?

What's wrong with remade maps? They are just fine. At least you get more maps, you whiners. Halo isn't a game where anyone can win either.

New features are what attracts new and old audiences. So what is wrong with armor permutations? And not everyone has bought a 50, and not everyone who has one has no life.

Your reasons are flawed. All I see is this, someone who is upset with change, and, well, for no good reason, thinks forge, new gameplay options, screenshots, Firefight, and armor perms are somehow completely screwing up gameplay, when in fact, they do nothing to harm it, but rather, inhance it.

Give good reasons as to why these features are apparently ruining Halo.

  • 08.27.2009 10:02 PM PDT
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"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there you will always long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci

Put it this way. I played Halo 1. Finished it. Said cool. Played on Legendary. Said woot finished on highest difficulty.....then forgot about it. Same happened with Halo 2.

Halo 3. Finished it on all difficulties, still use forge, still play co op, still play online. Why? Because there is so much damn variety that its nigh on impossible to NOT find something to do in Halo 3. If core gameplay was the most important thing in games, then Halo 3 wouldn't have sold as much. Extras matter, period.

  • 08.28.2009 12:46 AM PDT

Recruiting for UNAF/United Nations Assault Forces, Message me on here or on Xbox LIVE or check out our Group page here on Bungie.net.
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Elites are better than Spartans, deal with it, and Armour Lock is fine.

Reach shouldn't belike Halo:CE if it was, It wouldn't be a new game or a prequel.
It would be a Remake
Plus if it goes back,Then you're just going to complain about that too.

  • 08.28.2009 2:23 AM PDT
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"I'm not camping, I'm lying in wait..."

"Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements." Or will we see "hardcore" fans, skulking and trolling, instead of just playing Halo CE.
Also, your silly grammar errors completely ruined the whole atmosphere and sophistication of your whole speech.

  • 08.28.2009 2:45 AM PDT

What? You're angry because they added MORE to Halo 3? I can understand where you're coming from on the gameplay and such, since I've also played the Halo series since the beginning and can see the difference. But then you go on to say that all the extra features such as Forge, Theatre, Armour Permutations and whatever else make the game bad. This is retarded. So long as the emphasis is on the gameplay and these features are just added on for the fun of it, there's no issue.

  • 08.28.2009 2:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: SiKe X
Posted by: UrbanSolder000
So you're basically saying that we should strip the game so it has no features whatsoever, while only having a campaign mode and a simple Matchmaking system?

Talk about a step in the wrong direction.


Halo 1 and Halo 2, had none of those features. So how is it "stripping", and I never once said a simple matchmaking system. I even referred to Halo 2 as a better one then Halo 3.

Posted by: matdan
SikeX are you insane! Honestly your complaining about everything! You want to get rid of some amazing features just cause you think halo should go back to it's roots... Sure the beatdowns could definitely use some work but getting rid of forge, theater and firefight?! Those features are amazing! What your asking for will only accomodate to a certain crowd, if Bungie listened to your ridiculous rant they would loose so many fans and Halo's popularity would go down. Because a simple fps is very fun, but old and with new generation gamers who look for things such as cutomization and things like forge, etc. this simple fps you wish for just won't cut it.

Halo Reach can still go back to its roots in certain ways (for example by having faster paced gameplay) but the things Bungie has done with Halo 3 are just amazing and for them to get rid of them, is just plain stupid.


Call me insane, stupid, and dumb. But look around. This community is consumed by this "Extra" stuff that they don't even have a clue what the real gameplay is. I just believe that a game should sell on core gameplay, and not the fact that it has "Forge, and theater".

Halo: CE and Halo 2 were great games. They didn't have that nonsense. They had all sorts of fun things to do for the casual gamer, like exploring maps, glitches and etc. However, it also had a consistent weapon that was used very good for the Competitive crowd, and it had some awesome maps that were great for fast paced gameplay.

Halo 3 may be a "Perfect Game" in the sense that it doesn't have many glitches. But sorry to burst your bubble, glitches actually make a game fun. Especially when it doesn't effect GAMEPLAY. I remember spending hours messing around with friends in all these different maps trying to get out.

So I want you to think. All these games coming out are becoming easier, and easier. Pretty soon every kid who plays a video game will be in the MLG Circuit, and the population will continue to grow obese, and people will start acting like playing video games is a career. Do you want that? Because that's the next generation of gaming. The only games that actually take some skill now are games like Starcraft which is completely different from an FPS.



Ya that makes sense to a certain point but what i'm saying is why not have both the extra features and the more competitive gameplay. Once again that only accomodates to YOUR CROWD, most people I would say would agree with me. Don't take things away from a game unless its something -blam!- like regenerators (I hate those). I think the game is still fast paced maybe not as much as halo 2 but simple changes can be made as by making the character run faster, or switch guns faster, or by reducing auto-aim, etc.

Another thing, about the glitches, there are still tones of glitches in halo 3. Most of those glitches were found in...FORGE. Would you look at that maybe forge is a good thing even for you. Another thing about forge, do not tell me you've never just hung out in forge with your friends just talked and fooled a round like crushing people with tanks, building huge ramps, or wtv.

How can you speak for the community...Saying that they don't know what core gameplay is...Has their ever been a poll where thousands of people were like I don't know what that is.
I don't understand your logic about the whole obese people who play video games like its their job, your saying that happens because of "easy gameplay"?! That's not what's making people obese, video games in general, over eating, and no exercices makes people obese. A combination of those three will do the job.
So using your logic, you believe IF the game is harder people will randomly begin to thin and no longer be obese? Wrong... And MLG if you want to play MLG with people you like instead of kids then make a clan or get together with some friends and go play your MLG. I never understood what was so good about MLG anyways.

And now lastly, halo 3 takes skill, I don't care what you say it just does.

  • 08.28.2009 8:34 AM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

Will we let the MLG competitiveness ruin the fun BTB and Action Sackness that... O wait, that is what you want.

  • 08.28.2009 9:05 AM PDT

Rock Chalk Real Talk
Minnesotan, currently going to school at KU.


@Geegs30

I'm glad you gave us lots of backing for all your assumptions. Well done sir.

  • 08.28.2009 9:12 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Id prefer not to pay 60 euro for a game I already have. Reach needs to be familiar but new at the same time. If you dont like Halo 3 and ODST dont play them. Simple as.

  • 08.28.2009 9:23 AM PDT
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Halo 3 is for noobs. Gg NoRe.

Posted by: TerminAidor
Posted by: SiKe X
Well, I obviously see that the Halo 3, and the ODST forums are full of fan boys. However, most of them never laid touch on Halo 1 or Halo 2 and saw the greatness and simplicity of those games.

So this is the question. Will Halo: Reach go back to its roots. Where a skill gap is significant, where the ranking system is more like Halo 2's, and not crap like Halo 3. Will we see simple maps, where there isn't 30,000 cracks a grenade can bounce randomly. Will we see maps with good structure rather then detail. Will we see a gun that is finally consistent, and beat downs that actually go to the person with quicker reflexes.

OR will we follow the nut cases who fell in love with Halo 3 at first sight, that jumped on the Halo series Bandwagon. Will we see more barbie dress up armor permutations, will we see every kid in Halo with a bought 50. Will we see the Halo: Runescape, or Halo with Horde, and Zombies(ODST). Will we see obsessed 2 year old's and no life 16 year old's stressing there life over precious achievements. Will we remakes of maps that are terrible, or maps that are two big for competitive play. Will we see a more newb friendly game where anybody can win, hence beat downs where even if you are slow you can kill a pro now. Is Halo: Reach going to have all that extra junk surrounding the actual core gameplay like theater, and forge.

Or will the Halo community finally see that what Halo is, is a fast paced shooter. That doesn't need different armor, 50 weapons, newb friendly gameplay, huge maps, theater, forge, screenshots, firefight, maps with detail, graphics, or achievements.

What made Halo 1 and Halo 2 great was this: Core gameplay was fast paced, competitive for hardcore gamers, and fun for casual. With simple, but with good maps and a huge skill gap.


I love Halo 3, and played my fair share of Halo CE and Halo 2. So don't even start saying that everyone that enjoys Halo 3 doesn't know about the good old games.

Part of making a game is moving forward. Are you saying that everything should be scrapped that wasn't in the first two games? Do you expect a game to be a success if it doesn't have new features? And what's wrong with going achievement hunting?

What's wrong with remade maps? They are just fine. At least you get more maps, you whiners. Halo isn't a game where anyone can win either.

New features are what attracts new and old audiences. So what is wrong with armor permutations? And not everyone has bought a 50, and not everyone who has one has no life.

Your reasons are flawed. All I see is this, someone who is upset with change, and, well, for no good reason, thinks forge, new gameplay options, screenshots, Firefight, and armor perms are somehow completely screwing up gameplay, when in fact, they do nothing to harm it, but rather, inhance it.

Give good reasons as to why these features are apparently ruining Halo.


Simple. Let's take away the Bonus feature of Halo 3, and compare the gameplay with Halo 1, and Halo 2.

You would be able to see this. The gameplay is slow. The weapons are inconsistent, the maps are not competitive size except for a few, and the skill gap is less.

Now, re-add all those features. The new kid on the block sees this. Theater, forge, screenshots, level 50s, and recon armor. You see this? All that distracts from the core gameplay. Then you have those people come on here thinking Halo 3 is the best game ever.

Don't tell me that people don't play halo 3 because of these features. Because you and me both know that there are thousands of kids who want to have the "Best armor, the highest rank, the coolest screenshot, and their best film". That's the truth. None of those people will ever see Halo 3 as an FPS shooter. They simply get distracted.

Hell, if you put those features on Halo 1 and Halo 2, that's great, and it would improve BECAUSE the core gameplay is already excellent. But since Halo 3 doesn't have the core gameplay down, I feel as though the "Extras" are gimmicks. It's a sad society. People want to play Halo: Runescape edition. It's all about ITEMS, bragging, and other things. Why do you think the market place has "Avatars with special clothes you can buy". All of it is simply marketing.

The general public here would rather play a game that has all these fancy features, and bad gameplay, then play a game LIKE shadowrun which has awesome gameplay, but not enough marketing.

People want to play easy games, they want to get better QUICK. Unfortunately that means all skill goes out the window.

  • 08.28.2009 3:51 PM PDT

ummm does our signature have to be in cursive because I
don't know how to type cursive
http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/best501st/Group/GroupHome.aspx

Posted by: halo_goof
Personally i think it should go back to its roots, not because i dont like how it is i love it. i just preferrd the or style of Halo CE.
i agree with this guy i like halo 3 i just got bored with it i guess it lost that new game smell. halo 2 is fun but it is a little to simple in my opinion(*raises flame shield*)i mean i still like to play it but i want something to refresh my interest... and i hope reach has a bunch of new features to do that(*sprays anti-troll spray*)so no i don't want halo reach to go back to it's roots. Honestly though I don't see why everyone thinks halo 3 sucks... it doesn't in my opinion... I remember when everyone was like "Oh my god Halo is so awesome!" whatever happened to that mentality?

  • 08.28.2009 4:05 PM PDT
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No.

Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.


Marketing bandwagon?

Mother -blam!-.

Do you have any idea how much TIME it takes to add an entirely new gametype to a firmly grounded framework? It's not something where you can just go "Oh their doin' it, so let's doo it too! *poof* and it's done" NO. This -blam!- takes time. How dare you accuse their actions of being driven by others? You may have the right to speak against the devs, but you have NO idea what you're talking about.

And who cares if they did it because someone else did? This is an EXPASION. NOT A REAL GAME. This is one of the rare times where the developers actually get to -blam!- around with the engine and experiment. Are you seriously trying to "call them out" on THAT? Of all things?

[Edited on 08.28.2009 4:31 PM PDT]

  • 08.28.2009 4:30 PM PDT
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Halo 3 is for noobs. Gg NoRe.

Posted by: master piraka
Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.


Marketing bandwagon?

Mother -blam!-.

Do you have any idea how much TIME it takes to add an entirely new gametype to a firmly grounded framework? It's not something where you can just go "Oh their doin' it, so let's doo it too! *poof* and it's done" NO. This -blam!- takes time. How dare you accuse their actions of being driven by others? You may have the right to speak against the devs, but you have NO idea what you're talking about.

And who cares if they did it because someone else did? This is an EXPASION. NOT A REAL GAME. This is one of the rare times where the developers actually get to -blam!- around with the engine and experiment. Are you seriously trying to "call them out" on THAT? Of all things?


Are you trying to defend Bungie? Bungie makes games, we consume them.

Bungie needs us, as much as we want Halo.

  • 08.28.2009 5:56 PM PDT
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I played Halo CE and halo 2, beat em both on Legendary

walks away insulted and crying.

  • 08.28.2009 6:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: master piraka
Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.


Marketing bandwagon?

Mother -blam!-.

Do you have any idea how much TIME it takes to add an entirely new gametype to a firmly grounded framework? It's not something where you can just go "Oh their doin' it, so let's doo it too! *poof* and it's done" NO. This -blam!- takes time. How dare you accuse their actions of being driven by others? You may have the right to speak against the devs, but you have NO idea what you're talking about.

And who cares if they did it because someone else did? This is an EXPASION. NOT A REAL GAME. This is one of the rare times where the developers actually get to -blam!- around with the engine and experiment. Are you seriously trying to "call them out" on THAT? Of all things?


get ur facts straight dude how can a prequel be an "EXPANSION" it is not an expansion an any person who does is absolutely retarded and should get an IQ test. (no offense really dude i'm not trying to be mean or anything)

  • 08.28.2009 6:03 PM PDT
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No.

Posted by: BIGFT 13
Posted by: master piraka
Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.


Marketing bandwagon?

Mother -blam!-.

Do you have any idea how much TIME it takes to add an entirely new gametype to a firmly grounded framework? It's not something where you can just go "Oh their doin' it, so let's doo it too! *poof* and it's done" NO. This -blam!- takes time. How dare you accuse their actions of being driven by others? You may have the right to speak against the devs, but you have NO idea what you're talking about.

And who cares if they did it because someone else did? This is an EXPASION. NOT A REAL GAME. This is one of the rare times where the developers actually get to -blam!- around with the engine and experiment. Are you seriously trying to "call them out" on THAT? Of all things?


get ur facts straight dude how can a prequel be an "EXPANSION" it is not an expansion an any person who does is absolutely retarded and should get an IQ test. (no offense really dude i'm not trying to be mean or anything)


Bungie has stated FREQUENTLY that it's an expansion you stupid little -blam!-.

Every heard of Half-Life 2: Episode 1/2? Same deal here.

[Edited on 08.29.2009 12:24 PM PDT]

  • 08.29.2009 12:23 PM PDT
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What do you expect? Bungie became the biggest noobs in Gameplay Design and A.I Programming after the release of Halo 1.
No offense Bungie.

  • 08.29.2009 12:35 PM PDT

I am the king of J's
KING J MASTER OF EXPERIENCE

you know...i realy only have 1 thing wrong with halo 3....the blimmen trueskill system i mean what idiot thought of that?!(no offense bungie but common you guys are better that that) i pray to god that reach will have ANYTHING but trueskill

[Edited on 08.29.2009 12:55 PM PDT]

  • 08.29.2009 12:54 PM PDT

I am the king of J's
KING J MASTER OF EXPERIENCE

Posted by: AnthraxRipple
Posted by: halo_goof
Personally i think it should go back to its roots, not because i dont like how it is i love it. i just preferrd the or style of Halo CE.
i agree with this guy i like halo 3 i just got bored with it i guess it lost that new game smell. halo 2 is fun but it is a little to simple in my opinion(*raises flame shield*)i mean i still like to play it but i want something to refresh my interest... and i hope reach has a bunch of new features to do that(*sprays anti-troll spray*)so no i don't want halo reach to go back to it's roots. Honestly though I don't see why everyone thinks halo 3 sucks... it doesn't in my opinion... I remember when everyone was like "Oh my god Halo is so awesome!" whatever happened to that mentality?


boosters,account sellers and rank locks came along...thats what happend man :(

  • 08.29.2009 12:59 PM PDT
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No.

You really can't do anything about that. Neither Bungie nor Microsoft can.

[Edited on 08.30.2009 7:56 PM PDT]

  • 08.30.2009 7:55 PM PDT

This is just like when a smaller band becomes popular. Once you become successful, everything you produce after that is automatically just considered "saturated marketing horse -blam!-", and its usually not.

[Edited on 08.30.2009 8:11 PM PDT]

  • 08.30.2009 8:10 PM PDT

..And you're dead serious aren't you? -.-

I "jumped on the bandwagon" with Halo 2. I thought the game was phenomenal. I bought halo 2 while 360 was out. Then halo 3 came out, and as much as i wanted it i couldnt afford a 360 yet. so i bought The first Halo game. Halo is -blam!-1NG epic I love it.


But i feel like youre being whiny, and your not considering the game industry. It costs money to make games. do you think halo would make just as much money by sticking with original xbox standards? No.I actually think acheivements add even more fun to a game. I think the ranking system is fine. Its better than COD. You can rank upfaster in Halo 3.


However. I will admit that there was something about halo 3, that i just didnt like. I still cant put my finger on it.


But dude seriously, Halo is one of the most (if not THE most) successful game series out there. Though Halo is pretty damn cliche nowadays, Im still a Halo fan til the end.

And I have to admit, im a little worried bungie might screw up and do something stupid with halo reach. like, idk, mess up the story line when it comes to weapons. Its based BEFORE Halo:CE so it should have the weapons in Halo :CE. No halo 2 or 3 weapons. Equipment? maybe. Better armor permutations and more broad customization would be nice.


But for now we'll just have to wait and see. The anticipation is already intense enough. Lets not ruin the purity of it.

  • 08.30.2009 8:25 PM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Reach will have a ton of Bandwagon jumpers as has every Halo. Who cares? Sure they come here and post and act like they know all, but they aren't hard to ignore, and they are all going to suck anyways.

I'm more annoyed that these people are going to be the ones who love the game simply for aesthetics and understand nothing about how the other Halo's were. Or even worse "variety" when pretty much all of the weapons in Halo 3 have a counterpart that accomplishes the exact same thing.

  • 08.30.2009 8:47 PM PDT
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No.

Posted by: SiKe X
Posted by: master piraka
Posted by: Reptilian Rob
Posted by: Leader AleX
ODST did NOT make Firefight because of N4zi's or Horde.

Yes they did.

They jumped on the marketing band wagon.


Marketing bandwagon?

Mother -blam!-.

Do you have any idea how much TIME it takes to add an entirely new gametype to a firmly grounded framework? It's not something where you can just go "Oh their doin' it, so let's doo it too! *poof* and it's done" NO. This -blam!- takes time. How dare you accuse their actions of being driven by others? You may have the right to speak against the devs, but you have NO idea what you're talking about.

And who cares if they did it because someone else did? This is an EXPASION. NOT A REAL GAME. This is one of the rare times where the developers actually get to -blam!- around with the engine and experiment. Are you seriously trying to "call them out" on THAT? Of all things?


Are you trying to defend Bungie? Bungie makes games, we consume them.

Bungie needs us, as much as we want Halo.


If you understand this, then why are you -blam!-ing? Get the hell off this forum. You're just as bad as the kids who keep comparing this game to COD.

  • 09.01.2009 1:57 PM PDT

I don't see you doing anything to help our country.
Except sitting at home, naked, eating twinkies, rubbing your hands together going "Heh. Target Destroyed. Mission Accomplished." Oh wait. that's not helping.

So pretty much you want a piece of crap game with just multiplayer and campaign. Sounds like a great game! No, i love forge, it lets us create all kinds of cool maps to play on. Custom games is amazing and fun, i see no reason to take it out. Theater is perfect and is what makes halo a great game for machinima. Weapons are perfect, they're realistic with spread, we don't make real guns that shoot perfect every time. Also without good graphics halo wouldn't survive on the 360, same with varying map sizes and styles. So let Bungie make the game and shut up about what you want in it.

  • 09.01.2009 2:10 PM PDT

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