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Subject: will halo reach be 'dumbed down' like halo 3?

personally, i would prefer that they dumb the br down a bit more to make other weapons more useable. the br beats just about everything as it is now, but sometimes i'd like to use other weapons. the problem is if i do, im more than likely to not get nearly as many kills as i would with the br so its not as enjoyable.

  • 08.29.2009 1:17 AM PDT
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Why would you want the BR to be dumbed down even more? CQB is where Halo 3 lacks. The skill gap is very small.

If the BR is dumbed down, the sniper would be even more ultimate.

  • 08.29.2009 1:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: Shai Hulud
I personally don't see that Halo 3 was "dumbed down" for more casual gamers. I'd be interested to know why you think that.

Most of the weapons in the game are short ranged, which coupled with the noob-tacular melee, makes most of the short range combat worthless and generally unsatisfying. The melee is way too overpowered, able to hit anyone within 5ft, taking off full shields. The auto aim is also pretty damn annoying. Having a half decent starting weapon might be nice. Halo Reach needs a weaker melee, a mid-ranged but not powerful starting weapon. And then most of all, an overall better weapon balancing. I don't mind equipment, as long as it's not in certain gametypes (bubbleshield-oddball). I don't know if dumb-downed is the right word, but the overall gameplay has suffered over the years.

  • 08.29.2009 8:23 AM PDT
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What is with you people who want a smaller clip. I always need to reload before i kill anyone or i come close to a empty clip, i just run out of ammo on one person when there is 3 guys to worry about or they move too much and no i do not have bad aim, but you can't be on target all the time. Tht's why i liked the halo 1 ar it had 60 bullets in a clip.

  • 08.29.2009 8:45 AM PDT

7even is Darker

Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheUseless0ne
Many would tell you that Halo 2 was "dumbed down" from Halo: Combat Evolved.

It's actually gotten harder to play, placing more emphasis on skill than weapons like the earlier games. This is evident in how much more difficult it's gotten to get multikills in normal game types.

And if you think long range is a problem in 3, you should go back to Halo 2, when the sniper shot faster, and had little to no recoil (or again, the same in Halo 1, with the pistol in place of the BR).

CQB was popular in Halo 2 because in most of the game you spawned with a duelwieldable weapon, and a second handfull of gun was never far away, and range on such weapons that are to be dueled is never really very good at all.

It's also of note that you claim Bungie is catering to the casual/ beginner players, and then ask for a LESS competitive playlist. Contradicting ideas and so forth, not very good for your argument.

Sure, you can't practically snipe with a shotgun with a ton of shells in it, and no, there is no fast shooting, shield dropping, head popping M6D, or a rocket launcher that can track vehicles that you can switch out for another gun on the fly... Or BXRing, super jumping or the such (that's asinine and uncouth, not "pro"), but there is a solid gameplay model unique to Halo, consisting of a stripped down FPS that works and places emphasis on balance and technique rather than having the bigger stick. Every weapon has it's place, you just need to learn to use, and counter them.

I suppose the only argument you have that holds weight is the one about the lack of vehicle maps. At a whopping 3, yes, there are fewer than in Halo 2, and I'd like to see more.


you didnt even understand my first post. or any other so im not gonna waste my time correcting your big post.



...You just got intellectually destroyed I'm sorry to say, it'd be smarter to claim defeat over ignorance or try to counter his points.

  • 08.29.2009 8:51 AM PDT
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Posted by: CP0 Fraser
Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheUseless0ne
Many would tell you that Halo 2 was "dumbed down" from Halo: Combat Evolved.

It's actually gotten harder to play, placing more emphasis on skill than weapons like the earlier games. This is evident in how much more difficult it's gotten to get multikills in normal game types.

And if you think long range is a problem in 3, you should go back to Halo 2, when the sniper shot faster, and had little to no recoil (or again, the same in Halo 1, with the pistol in place of the BR).

CQB was popular in Halo 2 because in most of the game you spawned with a duelwieldable weapon, and a second handfull of gun was never far away, and range on such weapons that are to be dueled is never really very good at all.

It's also of note that you claim Bungie is catering to the casual/ beginner players, and then ask for a LESS competitive playlist. Contradicting ideas and so forth, not very good for your argument.

Sure, you can't practically snipe with a shotgun with a ton of shells in it, and no, there is no fast shooting, shield dropping, head popping M6D, or a rocket launcher that can track vehicles that you can switch out for another gun on the fly... Or BXRing, super jumping or the such (that's asinine and uncouth, not "pro"), but there is a solid gameplay model unique to Halo, consisting of a stripped down FPS that works and places emphasis on balance and technique rather than having the bigger stick. Every weapon has it's place, you just need to learn to use, and counter them.

I suppose the only argument you have that holds weight is the one about the lack of vehicle maps. At a whopping 3, yes, there are fewer than in Halo 2, and I'd like to see more.


you didnt even understand my first post. or any other so im not gonna waste my time correcting your big post.



...You just got intellectually destroyed I'm sorry to say, it'd be smarter to claim defeat over ignorance or try to counter his points.
This.

Oh and O.P, Ouch.

THATS GOTTA BURN!

  • 08.29.2009 8:55 AM PDT
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Posted by: zFearIess
forgetting about the competetive ones.

You're right! MLG has virtually no presence in Halo 3 at all. It's not like they have their own playlist or throw around tens of thousands of dollars in competitions or anything!

  • 08.29.2009 11:03 AM PDT

There are three things that I think dumbed Halo down.

-All weapons besides BR and sniper need a beat down in order to get a quick kill
-The amount of auto-aim is ridiculous
-The melee (this goes a long with auto-aim)

Besides that, I think it is fine.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
I personally don't see that Halo 3 was "dumbed down" for more casual gamers. I'd be interested to know why you think that.

  • 08.29.2009 11:07 AM PDT

signatures are for fa- wait

Posted by: Deathtrap462
Lemme guess: Your idea of what Halo Reach should be like is:

Weapons:
BR
Sniper

Maps:
Anything suitable for MLG

Vehicles:
Removed

Equipment:
Removed

  • 08.29.2009 11:08 AM PDT

-blam!- Was that actually blammed out? Or did I just type it? You'll never know.

Oh, I thought we were speaking Campaign-wise. I think the Halo 3 multiplayer is much more complicated than Halo 2. Which is really why I like Halo 2's better. They just overcomplicated things with all the equipment and weapons and such.

Also, non-dual wieldable Needler?! Am I the only person still miffed about this?

[Edited on 08.29.2009 11:10 AM PDT]

  • 08.29.2009 11:09 AM PDT

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
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Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


Don't give me that crap ever again... just please..

  • 08.29.2009 11:11 AM PDT

http://www.halo-forum.com

Posted by: TheUseless0ne
Many would tell you that Halo 2 was "dumbed down" from Halo: Combat Evolved.

It's actually gotten harder to play, placing more emphasis on skill than weapons like the earlier games. This is evident in how much more difficult it's gotten to get multikills in normal game types.

And if you think long range is a problem in 3, you should go back to Halo 2, when the sniper shot faster, and had little to no recoil (or again, the same in Halo 1, with the pistol in place of the BR).

CQB was popular in Halo 2 because in most of the game you spawned with a duelwieldable weapon, and a second handfull of gun was never far away, and range on such weapons that are to be dueled is never really very good at all.

It's also of note that you claim Bungie is catering to the casual/ beginner players, and then ask for a LESS competitive playlist. Contradicting ideas and so forth, not very good for your argument.

Sure, you can't practically snipe with a shotgun with a ton of shells in it, and no, there is no fast shooting, shield dropping, head popping M6D, or a rocket launcher that can track vehicles that you can switch out for another gun on the fly... Or BXRing, super jumping or the such (that's asinine and uncouth, not "pro"), but there is a solid gameplay model unique to Halo, consisting of a stripped down FPS that works and places emphasis on balance and technique rather than having the bigger stick. Every weapon has it's place, you just need to learn to use, and counter them.

I suppose the only argument you have that holds weight is the one about the lack of vehicle maps. At a whopping 3, yes, there are fewer than in Halo 2, and I'd like to see more.


This man is a genius. If he hadnt already posted it I probably would have.

  • 08.29.2009 11:20 AM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: Shai Hulud
I personally don't see that Halo 3 was "dumbed down" for more casual gamers. I'd be interested to know why you think that.


increased auto aim, a vastly larger selection of CQB weapons,
And how many of those weapons are top tier? None of them. There are only so many weapons that can headshot and have a scope.

the addition of the br spread, Oh no. It is *sightly* harder to get a 4 shot. It takes more skill! I want easy mode!

easier to rank up in as opposed to halo 2,Don't care about rank. Also, every single game on Xbox 360 that have Matchmaking use the same Trueskill system. Halo is just the only one that shows this rank.
shotguns in team snipers,Skipped after veto, only 2 gametypes in the playlist, and you have a sniper rifle, which is a shotgun but at any range.
equipment thrown in to save ppl who are about to get out bred for example.You mean tactical strategy? Equipment is more balanced than weapons. Equipment can be used by either team, and cause accidental damage. Weapons can only cause accidental damage, and be used by the other team when they kill you and take it. Just because someone has a way to avoid getting shot by your top tier weapon doesn't dumb it down, it deepens the variance and tactics.

all this stuff dumbs the game down.I see. Sounds more like "all of this stuff changes the gameplay in a way I'm not comfortable with, so its bad."

  • 08.29.2009 11:43 AM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

We probably will see more equipment, but equipment doesn't help just one player, it helps all the players in the vicinity of the equipment. A "competitive" player will know what to do when a "casual" player throws out a bubble shield. Although a "competitive" player should be more likely to use the bubble shield.

If by "competitive" player you actually mean, "player from Halo 2 that is way too stubborn to learn to adapt to new situations and evolve in skill, but is good at BR-ing", well then I understand where you are coming from.

But a good, competitive player will use equipment and he/she will use close quarter combat weapons.

I think your definition of a "Competitive" player is someone who is good at using the sniper and the BR.


Anyways, there is nothing wrong with a more wide variety of playlists. MLG, SWAT, Snipers, Squad battle are just some playlists that tend to the more competitive players. If you don't like the casual aspect of the game, stay out of the social playlists.

  • 08.29.2009 12:08 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
If by "competitive" player you actually mean, "player from Halo 2 that is way too stubborn to learn to adapt to new situations and evolve in skill, but is good at BR-ing", well then I understand where you are coming from.

But a good, competitive player will use equipment and he/she will use close quarter combat weapons.

Anyways, there is nothing wrong with a more wide variety of playlists. MLG, SWAT, Snipers, Squad battle are just some playlists that tend to the more competitive players. If you don't like the casual aspect of the game, stay out of the social playlists.

  • 08.29.2009 12:43 PM PDT

@ TheUselessOne, i fail to see how it has gotten harder to play. I'm not taking sides because this is a stupid argument, but i thought i'd put my 2pence in. Halo 1 was by far the fastest playing, and hardest one. You had things like fall damage, different run speeds, much different gameplay, etc.
In Halo 2, you claimed that the emphasis is on the weapons, and not skill. I don't see how you can say that. In Halo 2, it was all about skill, you had to know how to do things, timing for things like BxR/Doubleshot so you wouldnt reload, or cancel the beatdown. You also had to time the BxB so you wuoldn't cancel that. In Halo 2, the sniper had less power. Only headshots counted, and if you shot someone with even semi-full shields for the most part it would only take down their shields. In Halo 3, it kills them. You had to get a headshot in Halo 2 for a sniper kill unless you wanted 2 body shots.

People who didn't have the skill to learn to play a certain way couldn't doubleshot, and lost, end of story.

In Halo 3, whoever sees the person first wins, how is that fair? What if someone has invis, or is crouching in a hard to reach spot. Not to mention the autoaim in Halo 3. I've played loads of Halo 2 customs recently and haven't had any problem nor too much aid. In Halo 3, i play on 10 sensitivity, same as in H2. In H2 i will die if im not warmed up. In Halo 2 i can spaz the BR/gun all over the place to get a kill, and it works. In addition, the autoaim is too much. I'll be about the get a headshots, and someone will run slightly by, barely going near to my target, and the reticule will be dragged away, making me miss the headshot.

Halo 3 requires less skill then Halo 2, and Halo 2 less then Halo 1. I would be incredibly happy if Reach played like Halo 1, and wasn't weighed down by things that slow it down like Equipment. (Don't feel like writing an argument for this but it gives one player an unfair advantage, stops gameplay, blocks off areas of a map, etc.)

  • 08.29.2009 1:14 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: FFSalt
I would be incredibly happy if Reach played like Halo 1, and wasn't weighed down by things that slow it down like Equipment. (Don't feel like writing an argument for this but it gives one player an unfair advantage, stops gameplay, blocks off areas of a map, etc.)
Those also happen to be qualities associated with Power Weapons.

Except that equipment can benefit and harm both teams easily, much more so than a Power weapon.

  • 08.29.2009 2:31 PM PDT

Posted by: Deathtrap462
Lemme guess: Your idea of what Halo Reach should be like is:

Weapons:
BR
Sniper

Maps:
Anything suitable for MLG

Vehicles:
Removed

Equipment:
Removed


There will be one vehicle...

  • 08.29.2009 3:40 PM PDT
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get on topic guys. do any of you know anything about reach? i dont. i was hoping for some clues. its inarguable that the games have taken a turn towards the casual players, we dont need to debate that point. i wanna know what you would or wouldnt like 2 see in reach, or if you know what is going to be there.

  • 08.29.2009 9:40 PM PDT
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i hope not i want a fast passed multiplayer again like halo 2 and halo ce halo just feels slow and noobish so anyone can pick it up and be a 50

  • 08.29.2009 9:42 PM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: zFearIess


increased auto aim The autoaim is practically nothing compared to COD's 'hold down this button and tap this to jump between enemies' heads'. and the only ammo that autoaims is the spartan laser, and even then only within a few centimetres[/i

a vastly larger selection of CQB weapons [i]How is this bad? are you seriously complaining that they put the mauler and Gravity hammer in?shotgun beats EVERY other CQB weapon when used properly, and a good player would kill someone with these before they got close enough to use it.[i/

the addition of the br spread [i]been there since H2 post-patch. Not bad, adds an element of skill besides 'z0mg guyz I got a NO SPRED LONG RAENG WEPPIN![/i

easier to rank up in as opposed to halo 2 [i]complain about this to MS, it's their ranking system.


shotguns in team snipers would you really rather have NO CQB weapon? they don't affect the game, because if you love snipers so much you should easily be able to kill someone with a shotgun before they get to you...

equipment thrown in to save ppl who are about to get out bred makes you have to adapt to different gameplay styles, which takes another type of skill. If they're about to get out BRed and throw a bubble shield, it's more tactical than noobish - if you aren't smart enough to use equipment to save your own skin, don't complain about it.

all this stuff dumbs the game down.



All this stuff enhances the gameplay when used properly.

  • 08.29.2009 9:58 PM PDT

Are You Serious?

Don't talk about shotties in the snipers playlist, that's something in itself entirely.

Halo 3 wasn't dumbed down, it's just a change. Whether or not it's good or bad comes down to personal preference.

  • 08.29.2009 10:42 PM PDT
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You can't kill what's dead.

Stand. Fight. Resist. S2F.

It was not dumbed down for the casual player. How can you make a game geared towards professional players? You can't make a game better for pro players. It just doesn't make sense to me. You're either good or bad. The game can't be geared to make good players better.

[Edited on 08.29.2009 10:54 PM PDT]

  • 08.29.2009 10:53 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

You can make a game bad (Smash Brothers Brawl) but that wasn't done for the newboot community, it was a choice by the lead designer. And that game is terrible.

Halo 3 is different than Halo 2, but has more features, depth, and replayability. Therefore, I accept these changes as good.

  • 08.29.2009 10:59 PM PDT

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