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Subject: will halo reach be 'dumbed down' like halo 3?

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I personally agree with a lot of the OP, but I do understand where the other side stands. On the other hand though, I really would like for them to tone it down with the magnetism. Really, when I'm aiming and someone else jumps by, I hate when my view literally shifts away. This truly does take away from the game's experience. You cannot debate this.

Also, I find it annoying how they simplify the melee for beginners. Not only is the lunge so dramatic for any weapon, but there's so much auto-aim for this as well. Being a long time Halo veteran, only recently I went back to playing Halo CE and played a match with a friend of mine. He was never too fond of Halo CE or Halo 2.

I'd recall numerous times we would get into a firefight where I'd begin strafing and then go in for a melee. He too would attempt to melee but could never land it like myself. He would complain saying "WHY CAN'T I HIT YOU!?"

Of course we all know the answer. There's zero auto-aim for the melee system in Halo CE. I found this as a welcome invitation and it really helps close the skill-gap between those who are truly talented and those who aren't. If he's not facing me, there's no reason for him to be landing a melee.

I personally think this same method should be emphasized a little more with shooting as well. I can agree, some auto-aim should be allowed, but there comes a point where it's excessive. I strongly feel Halo 3 is excessive.

I won't say how Halo 2 is in comparison. I haven't played that in an even longer time. To be honest, I dislike that game most out of the three. I've felt it was too jumpy and all the skill rested in the weapons (unless you knew BXR and other glitch/combos). That's just my opinion, so don't ignore my whole post to crucify me for that one paragraph.

Also, I do agree that more larger maps are needed, along with some more mid to long-range weapons. I in no way am saying to reduce the close quarters of the game, but to at least balance the amount of gameplay between the two. Just put in your mind the image of those larger battles on the original Bloodgulch. By balancing gameplay like so, we can have more matches like those days.

  • 08.29.2009 11:28 PM PDT

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Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


halo 2 has the biggest skill distinction out of any game yet. it also has no crutches for new players.


Instead, the Battle Rifle (and the ridiculous auto-aim, anyone?) was the crutch for all players.

  • 08.29.2009 11:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: CANNON 117
Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


halo 2 has the biggest skill distinction out of any game yet. it also has no crutches for new players.


Instead, the Battle Rifle (and the ridiculous auto-aim, anyone?) was the crutch for all players.


a crutch? because it showed your actual skill? not just your connection like in halo 3..... i also love all the comments saying im bad cuz i cant adapt. i have adapted. doesnt mean i have 2 like it.

  • 09.04.2009 11:20 AM PDT

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Posted by: DreadSK
It's pretty sad we fight amongst ourselves over our amazing games. I think that all Halo fans, Gears of War fans, all other Xbox fans should all team up against our common enemy. The PS3 :D

This would be amazing if we crushed sony into the dirt and go into people house and throw there ps3's into the street and then set them on fire and when all of them are just balls of melted plastic we'll make black wii's out of them.

  • 09.04.2009 11:44 AM PDT

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Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: Shai Hulud
I personally don't see that Halo 3 was "dumbed down" for more casual gamers. I'd be interested to know why you think that.


increased auto aim, a vastly larger selection of CQB weapons, the addition of the br spread, easier to rank up in as opposed to halo 2, shotguns in team snipers, equipment thrown in to save ppl who are about to get out bred for example.

all this stuff dumbs the game down.


The vast majority of the players that plays any game are "casual". In lieu of the "competitive" Bungie has created the MLG playlist. I think, it is more fair for you to ask for more customization; ie: less auto aim, less CQB and easier to rank up in. Like the custom games now, you can customize it however you see fit.

The bottom line is, Bungie is a company, while they love the community and wants to make us happy, they too have to think about survival in the ever growing industry. Thus, the "dumbing" down.

Though, in my mind, Halo 3 is fine the way it is.

  • 09.04.2009 12:17 PM PDT

when people complain about Halo 3 being "dumbed down" its pretty safe to say that they didn't see the imbalances in previous games that made them think they were so good. Halo 3 was just more balanced.

the only problem i have is with magnetic melee lunge and the melee damage thats really the only thing i would consider "dumbed down" the game.

  • 09.04.2009 12:38 PM PDT

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Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


halo 2 has the biggest skill distinction out of any game yet. it also has no crutches for new players.


Energy sword.

  • 09.04.2009 12:39 PM PDT
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Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


halo 2 has the biggest skill distinction out of any game yet. it also has no crutches for new players.

Actually Halo CE has a higher skill gap than Halo 2 and Halo 3.

  • 09.04.2009 1:01 PM PDT
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Posted by: Lies
Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


halo 2 has the biggest skill distinction out of any game yet. it also has no crutches for new players.

Actually Halo CE has a higher skill gap than Halo 2 and Halo 3.


true but it lacked online, so skill was only relative to you and your friends not the whole world

  • 09.05.2009 5:11 PM PDT

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The main thing that's more like "dumbed up" is the fact that a melee, takes away a whole shield layer and can even kill at just a quarter and sometimes almost half shields.

  • 09.05.2009 5:39 PM PDT

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OP: I just want to let you know that you are completely on target. Halo 3's skill gap was far lower individually that Halo 1 and 2's were, and, a skill gap actually makes a game better as you don't get Harcore players beating up on casual weekend players just there for fun, and the game is more enjoyable for the hardcore players. Bungie needs to realize that it's possible to take care of both types of players and work to make the game enjoyable for everyone.
Note: I didn't even bother to read past the first page of posts in this thread because I know exactly how the majority of people will react;

"What are you talking about Halo 3 is great the BR is overpowered what are you talking about your shots don't register you're just bad."

/anger.

  • 09.05.2009 6:43 PM PDT

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Posted by: HackingDarko
Like other people are saying. Halo 3 actually became a harder game to play competitively. The biggest change from Halo 2 to Halo 3 is the speed of the game. It doesnt feel as fast as Halo 2 was. They are both great games in their own respective sense, but they are both different games. Not wildly different, just a different experience.


Whats funny is in this forum most people play and like halo 3. Not saying all but most. Most people that dont like halo 3 have sort of given up on it and looked for other competitive games because of the changes to it. The br spread is not a good idea anything, probability that the player cannnot control is NOT good.

The truth is Halo 3 has made many competitive people that played halo 2 move on. Which shows the lack of support for OP because some of what he says is very true.

  • 09.05.2009 7:39 PM PDT

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Posted by: frogpjb
OP: I just want to let you know that you are completely on target. Halo 3's skill gap was far lower individually that Halo 1 and 2's were, and, a skill gap actually makes a game better as you don't get Harcore players beating up on casual weekend players just there for fun, and the game is more enjoyable for the hardcore players. Bungie needs to realize that it's possible to take care of both types of players and work to make the game enjoyable for everyone.
Note: I didn't even bother to read past the first page of posts in this thread because I know exactly how the majority of people will react;

"What are you talking about Halo 3 is great the BR is overpowered what are you talking about your shots don't register you're just bad."

/anger.


QFT

  • 09.05.2009 7:41 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

The game is solid. I like the changes they made.

If you really want a competitive version, just ask for a carbine that has no spread as a starting weapon in Reach, either as a setting or to be included in Matchmaking.

  • 09.05.2009 7:51 PM PDT

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
The game is solid. I like the changes they made.

If you really want a competitive version, just ask for a carbine that has no spread as a starting weapon in Reach, either as a setting or to be included in Matchmaking.


In response to your earlier statement to me, about power weapons in Halo 1 and equipment, the weapons took much more skill to use.
With equipment, you face the hallway, throw it down, and bang, you're good until it runs out. Shield, Regen, Drainer, keeps your enemies away from you and you're safe.

With power weapons, you have to know how to use them, they require more skill. The rockets require the least, arguably, but still need aiming precision, and knowhow of when to use them and where to aim. The sniper, much more aiming precision, a small reticule, if you miss, you pay, end of story. Likewise for the plasma pistol, it's only overpowered in Halo 2. In the other games you actually had to aim. Long story short, you cannot deny that equipment takes less skill then controlling power weapons.

  • 09.05.2009 8:26 PM PDT

I fail to see how Halo 3 is "dumbed down" when compared to Halo 2? Is it because Halo 3 isn't riddled with button combo glitches like BXR? Where's the logic?

  • 09.05.2009 8:44 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shishka
Everything will be gone long before me. When the first living thing was born, I was here, waiting. When the last living thing dies, my job is finished. I'll put the chairs on the tables, turn out the lights and lock the universe behind me when I leave.

I just hope there is no BR in Reach, so people stop -blam!-ing about it.

  • 09.05.2009 9:01 PM PDT

Halo 2 definitely took more skill.

I wonder why Bungie keeps dumbing down Halo. They made the Sniper Rifle have recoil, decreased the auto-aim across the board, made the Battle Rifle non-hitscan and harder to use, decreased the grenade explosion radius to prevent spamming, added Forge so we can tweak maps competitively, added more options...

HOW DARE THEY DUMB DOWN THIS GAME?

  • 09.05.2009 9:17 PM PDT

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Over at HFCS we're constantly hard...

Wait...
What?

I'm not quite sure what the OP means by 'Dumbed Down'. Perhaps the initial learning curve isn't as steep, which I only see as a positive to help ease new players into the game. However, as you advance, you quickly find that there is quite a bit of strategy and technique required to be successful. For example, knowing when to use equipment, learning what weapons to use in specific situations, and other techniques like 3 shots body one shot head.

There are some additions that do help the player, like magnetism, auto aim, and melee range, but those were added because of the XBL environment (thus why they weren't in Halo:CE). Without these features, I guarantee you would be frustrated out of your mind any time you played online with someone who was even mildly laggy. It is also important to note that these effects were drastically reduced from Halo 2 to Halo 3.

As for weapon damage, I think it's all pretty well balanced. If anything, I'd like to see the AR be a tiny bit more powerful so it can compete better with the BR in mid-short range. I think spread is fine on all the guns, as I find it realistic. Yes, it can screw up someone's shots because they can't be 100% sure of where the bullets will land at a certain distance, but it's like that with real weapons. Even an expert marksman could not tell you exactly where a bullet will land with an auto or burst weapon at 50 yards.

Though I can't say any of this even really matters. I have a hunch that Halo:Reach will be a very different experience from Halo 3.

  • 09.05.2009 9:57 PM PDT

I'm out.

Posted by: CANNON 117
Posted by: zFearIess
Posted by: TheBigShow
Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2.


Halo 2 is worse than Halo 3.


halo 2 has the biggest skill distinction out of any game yet. it also has no crutches for new players.


Instead, the Battle Rifle (and the ridiculous auto-aim, anyone?) was the crutch for all players.


Yeah, because people picked up Halo 2 and could double shot and BXR on their first day.

Edit: Why is it that everyone who thinks Halo 3 wasn't dumbed down is a brigadier or lower?

[Edited on 09.05.2009 11:42 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2009 11:42 PM PDT

sup

Posted by: zFearIess
ive noticed that halo 3 has a 'dumbed down' feeling as opposed to halo 2. it seems bungie is accomodating begginers and casual players, and forgetting about the competetive ones. while this is obviously better for the Bottom Line, ive noticed a kinda segregation in the population of halo 3. im wondering if this will carry on to reach


any your proof for this is...?

they fixed the glitches that ruined the br in h2, so now it takes less skill?

  • 09.05.2009 11:43 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: FFSalt
With equipment, you face the hallway, throw it down, and bang, you're good until it runs out. Shield, Regen, Drainer, keeps your enemies away from you and you're safe.
Have you ever missed with a power drainer? Equipment takes skill. If you need another example, take being on the shotgun spawn on Isolation. You start taking BR fire, and deploy your Regenerator. As you press the button, you die to a headshot. The regenerator falls as you die. The enemy team occupies the regenerator, and then uses the equipment to pin your team down. Equipment takes timing, tactics, and communication.

With power weapons, you have to know how to use them, they require more skill. The rockets require the least, arguably, but still need aiming precision, and knowhow of when to use them and where to aim. The sniper, much more aiming precision, a small reticule, if you miss, you pay, end of story. Likewise for the plasma pistol, it's only overpowered in Halo 2. In the other games you actually had to aim. Long story short, you cannot deny that equipment takes less skill then controlling power weapons.Bullcrap. With Power weapons, you pick it up, and no one on the other team can use it until they kill you, and physically pick it up from your body. Power weapons help the individual more, and reward personal skill, while Equipment rewards the team, communication, and tactics. A bubble shield can completely negate the advantage provided by a sniper rifle, for example, but only if deployed right and your team knows about it.

  • 09.05.2009 11:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: frogpjb
OP: I just want to let you know that you are completely on target. Halo 3's skill gap was far lower individually that Halo 1 and 2's were, and, a skill gap actually makes a game better as you don't get Harcore players beating up on casual weekend players just there for fun, and the game is more enjoyable for the hardcore players. Bungie needs to realize that it's possible to take care of both types of players and work to make the game enjoyable for everyone.
Note: I didn't even bother to read past the first page of posts in this thread because I know exactly how the majority of people will react;

"What are you talking about Halo 3 is great the BR is overpowered what are you talking about your shots don't register you're just bad."

/anger.


nice post lol. and for the ppl who say theres less autoaim in h3, you are a complete idiot. there is wayyyyy more in halo 3. also if you cant throw equipment its not a lack of skill its a lack of brains.

also i believe the skill gap should be increased like in halo 2, because i have ppl in the 40-50 lvl on my team who play like they just bought the game.

[Edited on 09.07.2009 12:02 AM PDT]

  • 09.07.2009 12:00 AM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: zFearIess
nice post lol. and for the ppl who say theres less autoaim in h3, you are a complete idiot. there is wayyyyy more in halo 3. also if you cant throw equipment its not a lack of skill its a lack of brains
Anyone can throw equipment, like anyone can pull a trigger. Getting those bullets on target, or appropriately using the equipment, is where the skill is involved.

  • 09.07.2009 12:02 AM PDT
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Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Posted by: zFearIess
nice post lol. and for the ppl who say theres less autoaim in h3, you are a complete idiot. there is wayyyyy more in halo 3. also if you cant throw equipment its not a lack of skill its a lack of brains
Anyone can throw equipment, like anyone can pull a trigger. Getting those bullets on target, or appropriately using the equipment, is where the skill is involved.


are you kidding me? you press one button, in the direction of your enemies(power drainer). all the other ones help you, and only take timing.

  • 09.07.2009 12:03 AM PDT

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