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This topic has moved here: Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?
  • Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

OH-EM-GEE!!! Somebody give this man the worlds biggest cookie!

  • 07.18.2010 5:05 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

Delta. Alpha. November. Indigo. Echo. Lima.

I like this theory, very credible. The only thing I don't like is the devolution of the precursors. Surely a race as such would have measures in place to maintain their technology? Sure, something catastrophic is usually unforseeable but that doesn't mean that they hadn't thought of the possibility. I'm on the fence...

Aside from devolution, I love how this all fits. Perhaps the precursors, not the forerunners, chose humanity as their heirs? Or even created humanity as a sub-species to carry on their own - providing those blueprints to match their own evolution (Ancient Japanese buildings may be abstract but they're incredibly low-tech.)

Please correct anything I'm wrong about.

  • 07.20.2010 8:00 AM PDT

I imagine it happening in a similar way to the precursors of humanity in Douglas Adams' "The answer to Life, the Universe and Everything."

Imagine a Precursor ship is fleeing from whatever catastrophe has ravaged their people. It's been damaged, and contains perhaps just over 50,000 Precursors on. Eventually the ship crashes on Earth. The systems are completely dead, and no technology works.

Without the resources they are used to, the Precursors are forced to turn to more archaic methods of survival. Over generations, more and more knowledge is lost, until eventually they become little more than pre-historic humanity.

Of course, that would invalidate the "Earth is their homeworld" line of thought, but that doesn't matter so much. It's a pretty open theory, and the important part of it is that Humanity are the Precursors.

The rest is flexible.

  • 07.20.2010 10:57 AM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

lol, I couldn't come up with a good signature.

What you are saying reminds me of mass effect, technology thought to be from the protheans result being from someone before them, the reapers.

And your post above mine reminds me of another mass effect mission about jacobs loyalty.

[Edited on 07.20.2010 11:11 AM PDT]

  • 07.20.2010 11:10 AM PDT

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If you treat Halo legends as canon it completley blows your theory out of the water. The one where cortana explains the flood and everything else.

  • 07.26.2010 4:39 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

Anti-Teabag self-destruct mechanisms ftw


Posted by: Gdude
Posted by: P3P5I
Agustus, I have one problem with your theory: how did the forerunners find a way to defeat the flood and the pecursors (who were far more advanced) couldn't?
.


Then how did humanity defeat the flood, despite the forerunners not being able to?
The forerunners did defeat the flood. The flood humanity fights, is one, much weaker than the ancient flood because it is less spread and the things it consumes aren't as advanced, and 2, the flood humanity fought were specimens that the forerunners left as specimens for study which escaped because of covenant/human/monitors failing.

  • 07.26.2010 4:58 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

Don't worry, you're still your mom's favorite Bnet member.

Remember, Spark also says in the library: "I am pleased to see that some of you survived to reproduce!" Meaning he might have thought Chief was literally a Forerunner, meaning that him "reclaiming" halo would make sense, being that Halo would have once been theirs.

  • 07.29.2010 12:53 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

Give me a minute and I'll change your mind
Give me a bullet and I'll change your life

cool cant wait to see how it unfolds good read

  • 07.29.2010 7:22 PM PDT


Posted by: walshypru
Good point about the " Reclaimer" thing, I never really thought about it like that before.
But wouldn't Guilty Spark have said " You are precursor " and the end of halo?


he was rampant, what if he had said you are banana?

  • 07.29.2010 9:00 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

I'm an armed noob.

The name's kinda stupid, but this is what shows up in MatchMaking:
an armed noob sniped you.
an armed noob has the flag!
you splattered an armed noob.

Posted by: walshypru
Good point about the " Reclaimer" thing, I never really thought about it like that before.
But wouldn't Guilty Spark have said " You are precursor " and the end of halo?


Simple: The Precursor were to the Forerunner as the Forerunner are to humanity. There was no older than the oldest to the Forerunner, just the older.


My response to the theory: It seems well-written and well thought out, but the problem you have with explaining the Precursors disappearance doesn't seem right. If they were an intergalactic species, and transsentient, wouldn't they be able to create a weapon to destroy the Flood?

I personally think that the Precursor did in fact destroy the Flood. They most likely discovered the Flood while exploring a different galaxy, and then the Flood spread among different galaxies, before the Precursor wiped them out with a weapon operating similarly to the Halos, and leaving the galaxy in self-exile, similarly to the Forerunner. As to how the Flood got back to start the Forerunner-Flood war, I do not know. Maybe they slipped back on a ship, and crashed on some backwater planet. The Precursor might have left Humanity, part of themselves, as a reminder of their reign.

This is sort of an interesting thought I just had, with the Precursor being transsentient - you know how there are "Psychics" and such in modern-day society? Along with... I forget the acronym, but people will dream about things that will come true shortly... But what if the Prercursors evolved into such level of transsentience? They can accelerate evolution, why not reverse it? They left us, the beings they used to be.

Anyways, I'm writing a story sorta including the story about the Precursors. They created a weapon kinda like Halo, which emitted a frequency that would pretty much shake apart and destroy the Flood, then left the galaxy. The Forerunner found the device, but it had succumbed to time, as everything shall. They based off the Halos of what little they understood about how it worked...


[Edited on 07.29.2010 10:00 PM PDT]

  • 07.29.2010 9:46 PM PDT

Some call me crazy........ They're too modest.

Wolverfrog your a nutter, but seriously this makes more sense than any forerunner theories i have seen.

  • 07.29.2010 10:41 PM PDT

Any civilization capable of accelerating the evolution of intelligent life and traversing separate galaxies (the Beastarium [sic]) has already moved beyond war. If a species cannot transcend war then it is impossible for it to survive to this level. Unity through cooperation breeds the immortality of a species IMO.

  • 07.29.2010 11:11 PM PDT

If the Precursors had transcended war, then would a warring species of similar might not easily topple them?

The important part of this theory is that there is strong evidence suggesting that the Precursors are humanity. The rest is just speculation and conjecture, and can be altered and changed to better fit the overall theory.

  • 07.30.2010 8:35 AM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

Join the Spartan 1 Project, those 2nd versions of us are just copies, we are the real masterminds, join us and together we should rule the "gaming" world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Muhahahahahhahahahahaaaa

Honestly good theory but i thing spark meant reclaimer as in for 117 to take back halos and the ark from the covenant, because in every halo game MC gets used by spark to almost destroy the universe or to get to get the covenant off the ark.

  • 07.31.2010 9:39 PM PDT

What a waste....

I love your theory, Wolvers, but there is a problem. Reach still had to undergo extensive terraforming for humanity to be able to inhabit it. Also, I remember reading somewhere, I believe the oh-so-reliable Halopedia, that Reach was a mere 1 billion years old. Your "Mass Effect" Reaper theory might help explain the environment, but what about its age? I think this may be a canon mistake, but... eh?

  • 07.31.2010 9:46 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
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I just realized something. When people say that the only reason Spartans could wear armor is because of the genetic enhancements and practical steroids, why did Guilty Spark tell Master Chief in The Flood , "I suggest you upgrade to at least a Class Twelve Combat skin. Your current model only scans as Class Two."?

I think the Humanity followed the same path as Precursors, Creating Mjolnir armor. And he said at least Class twelve , so they had at least 6 times better armor than Chief. I think The Flood had taken the Precursors by surprise and, same as Forerunners, by the time they reacted it was too late. Maybe they had created Humanity after themselves, in both physical and genetic traits. Why else would Precursors, Forerunners, and Humanity have such close relations?

Precursors either are Humanity, just de-evolved like others said, or a sort of child experiment. It also explains why the Forerunners thought studying humans would explain their past.

[Edited on 07.31.2010 10:29 PM PDT]

  • 07.31.2010 10:26 PM PDT

I read up to "flood forced Precursors into hiding"

Your theories are good, but you have to remember this: Precursors are Gods, beyond the comprehension of mortality. The odds of mortals such as the flood driving the Precursors into hiding is rediculous. It'd be like the Flood driving Q from Star Trek into hiding a billion times over.

While it can be argued the Gravemind is a God himself, it's one vs billions. Who wins?

  • 08.01.2010 7:52 AM PDT

Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Precursors are Gods


Give me a source where it says "Precursors are Gods." They've been called Trans-Sentient, but the enemy is even more so, then what chance do you have?

And with the Flood, it isn't one vs billions. One mind, but not one body.

  • 08.01.2010 8:26 AM PDT

What a waste....


Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: ROBERTO jh
Precursors are Gods


Give me a source where it says "Precursors are Gods." They've been called Trans-Sentient, but the enemy is even more so, then what chance do you have?

And with the Flood, it isn't one vs billions. One mind, but not one body.
It's more like, Pentillions (Flood) vs. Trillions (Precursor)

  • 08.01.2010 2:37 PM PDT


Posted by: machine nine

Posted by: Wolverfrog

I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors.

Man kills Man,Apes do not kill Apes.


yeah they do, in fact, they're the only other species on the planet to do it.

and wolverfrog, Transentient means beyond sentient (I'm probably spelling that wrong). What else do you know that is beyond sentient? It has been theorized countless times over that they are in fact beyond mortality

It's common sence.

And when I said one vs billions, I meant one collective Conscience vs billions of individual consciences on a similar plane.

[Edited on 08.01.2010 4:46 PM PDT]

  • 08.01.2010 4:41 PM PDT

Quia ego sic dico.

I can't remember where I read it (could anyone help me out on this?) but I've seen somewhere, in one of the books most probably, that humans and forerunners are almost identical at the genetic level (For reference, it's a commonly quoted fact that humans and chimpanzees are 98% identical (but by this measure, humans and cabbages are 60%. Once you have a method for converting energy the rest is gravy)).
Perhaps, if this is true, the forerunner fascination with humans is due to us being a 'control' race, one that they can use to investigate themselves, removing baggage like culture from their findings.
Either this, or, if humans are so similar to forerunners, we are somehow proof that evolution is convergent, and that by comparing forerunner and human DNA it might be possible to 'solve for x' as it were to determine the exact science of evolution and life itself.

Of course, it's still possible that humans are precursors even if the above are true. 'Precursor' may be genetically different from forerunner, and any difference between it and human DNA might mark us as precursors. The forerunners would have been very interested in a race that exhibited evolutionary convergence or species-resurrection.

  • 08.05.2010 2:39 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]

"Find where the liar hides, so that I may place my boot between his gums!" - Rtas 'Vadum

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: flamedude
Well the first one would be..... Forerunners would probably recognise Precursors if they encountered them. We also don't know what constitutes a Precursor or even a Forerunner, we just don't know enough, they could be individual species like Humans or could be a group of advanced races like the Covenant. And as far as we've seen there are no Precursor artifacts on Earth, so far anyway.

Well there would be Precursor artifacts on Earth, but we'd think them to be human artifacts.

Perhaps all these mythological weapons that have appeared throughout the ages, such as Thors Hammer "Mjolnir" and King Arthurs "Excalibur", are in fact pieces of Precursor technology. The technology being so ridiculously complex and almost arcane in nature, especially to an undeveloped civilisation like ancient Humanity, may be perceived as magical in nature.

Posted by: Nocbl2
I love your theory, Wolvers, but there is a problem. Reach still had to undergo extensive terraforming for humanity to be able to inhabit it. Also, I remember reading somewhere, I believe the oh-so-reliable Halopedia, that Reach was a mere 1 billion years old. Your "Mass Effect" Reaper theory might help explain the environment, but what about its age? I think this may be a canon mistake, but... eh?

No, it is true. Reach is less that 1 billion years old. It is also remarked that for a planet of this age, Reach is rather stable. This, combined with Wolvers theory about the tunnels and Crystal being Precursor, made me think about something. Perhaps the Precursor just didn't colonise Reach, but created it? Of course it is a long shot, but it has appeared in other media, this whole idea.

Don't know if any of you watch Stargate Universe, but in an episode, I think it was called Faith, they discover a whole Star System that was not mapped by the preceding ships, meaning it did not exist then. The star is 200 million years old, and has an Earth like planet in orbit, which is impossible since the planet should still be molten. The star itself is said to be artificial. Rush speculates that the whole system was created, and whoever did had far surpassed the Ancients and would be considered the "All time Civilisation" or something. Similar to Halo with respect that the Ancients are like the Forerunner, but then this "world builder" could be like the Precursor, with greater world building techniques and more power than the Forerunner, obviously.

The Forerunner created Onyx. However when they did so, I imagine all that it entailed was mass producing trillions of sentinels, stacking them one on top of the other over the slipspace portal and then slapping on a biosphere and atmosphere and letting life take over. The Precursors, being more advanced, may have actually been able to surpass Astro-engineering and go onto full stellar-engineering by creating a fully living, breathing, churning planet that if cut down the middle would be mistaken as natural. Perhaps they created the whole system. The Forerunner created small scale stars, like the one in the heart of the Shield World in Halo Wars. It may be possible that the Precursor created a full, main sequence star. They would then create the tunnels as they built the planet.

A bit of a longshot maybe, but the whole "Reach being too stable for its age" might prove beneficial to your theory Wolvers.

In short: Reach is a young world > too stable > As Wolvers suggested, Precursor left from Earth, but rather didn't colonise Reach, but instead created it > thus explains Reach stability, tunnels and the stuff Wolvers suggested about the tunnels being nonsensical to be Forerunner due to the war etc.

Basically the only thing new here I brought to the table is the stability issue. ;)

  • 08.05.2010 5:15 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

im an average person to play halo with. im not the best player youll ever see, but im working on it :)

"change is inevitable, except from a vending machine"

wolverfrog youre theory seems completly solid but it isnt.

if the precursors were more advanced then the forunners why did they need rescuing from the flood by being taken to the ark?

also gdude said about the graveminds quote "child of mine enemy...". the forunners were the enemy of the flood, as was any life form that resisted the hold of the flood. that must mean that we are NOT! biologically forunner but bieng a special species to the forunners they may have "adopted" us as the heirs to all that they created.

they saw our potential and here is my theory to the first activation of the hola array.

the forunners see our potential and take us to the ark to store us. but i think that they draw the flood away from earth acting as our scape goat.

with the forunners gone no one can reactivate the halos in the rise of another flood threat. so the forunners use the humans to activate the rings (sort of giving our species the security clearance if you like) so that we may one day reach the ark and reclaim what was once handed to us like a family heirloom.

after this the forunners flee bringing the flood away from earth after the first firing. then the forunners on the ark take the humans and recolonise the earth with its original species. then they leave for good.

now here is the part how john 117 is referred to as "forunner" to spark. the human that they used to fire the rings somehow has a biological fingerprint (dna records perhaps) and these are recognised by the systems of the ark and the other halo's. and that the human used is one of johns ancestors (biologically). there fore when activating the first halo (installation 04) his "biological fingerprint" is recognised by the halo from the arks systems and installation 04 (being the ring of guilty spark) shares all data with its respective monitor (spark). this leads spark to believe that john is forunner.

this may not explain entirly that the original theory in this thread is wrong but it may not be right either.

[Edited on 08.08.2010 3:12 PM PDT]

  • 08.08.2010 3:10 PM PDT