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  • Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

Posted by: T4NGLEWOOD
wolverfrog youre theory seems completly solid but it isnt.

if the precursors were more advanced then the forunners why did they need rescuing from the flood by being taken to the ark?


Because at that time they were advanced no longer. I state this clearly in the theory.

also gdude said about the graveminds quote "child of mine enemy...". the forunners were the enemy of the flood, as was any life form that resisted the hold of the flood. that must mean that we are NOT! biologically forunner but bieng a special species to the forunners they may have "adopted" us as the heirs to all that they created.

Your opinion. I'd argue that the Gravemind was once in conflict with the Precursors, and with you being their descendants, then it stands to reason that he'd call your the child of his enemy.

they saw our potential and here is my theory to the first activation of the hola array.

the forunners see our potential and take us to the ark to store us. but i think that they draw the flood away from earth acting as our scape goat.

with the forunners gone no one can reactivate the halos in the rise of another flood threat. so the forunners use the humans to activate the rings (sort of giving our species the security clearance if you like) so that we may one day reach the ark and reclaim what was once handed to us like a family heirloom.

after this the forunners flee bringing the flood away from earth after the first firing. then the forunners on the ark take the humans and recolonise the earth with its original species. then they leave for good.

now here is the part how john 117 is referred to as "forunner" to spark. the human that they used to fire the rings somehow has a biological fingerprint (dna records perhaps) and these are recognised by the systems of the ark and the other halo's. and that the human used is one of johns ancestors (biologically). there fore when activating the first halo (installation 04) his "biological fingerprint" is recognised by the halo from the arks systems and installation 04 (being the ring of guilty spark) shares all data with its respective monitor (spark). this leads spark to believe that john is forunner.


Cool story bro. I don't see how it's relevant to this theory though. Maybe you should make your own thread.

this may not explain entirly that the original theory in this thread is wrong but it may not be right either.

That's why it's a theory, and not fact.

  • 08.09.2010 5:13 PM PDT

excellent theories BUT this entire universe is subject to the will of Bungie they ultimately decide. Is Humanity Precursor or Forerunner? then how could the Prophets use the ship on their homeworld if you needed a Biological fingerprint wouldn't that make the Prophets and Humans related? whether we like it or not Bungie could pick any theory and make it the truth in the Halo Universe but i do agree with the genetic memories quite a good argument and if it wasn't up to Bungie i would whole-heartedly agree with you i just simply believe that Bungie can create anything in this Universe and it would be fact maybe the Precursors didn't just own an Empire in the Milky Way? What if it spanned a couple of Galaxies and in one of these Galaxies an Rebellion against empire created a new biological weapon... The Flood so the Precursor Empire (Precursors possibly have their home world in the Milky way) Have sinned by trying to Control other Galaxies and all that submit to them must be cleansed (Forerunners could* descend from these Rebels) and they wish to research what happened to their previous power or something along those lines.

EDIT: Forerunners being these descendents of the Floods Creators, The explanation would be the flood gain sentience by 'Infecting' the Loyal Precursors

[Edited on 08.10.2010 2:05 PM PDT]

  • 08.10.2010 2:02 PM PDT
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Posted by: ninjaz
excellent theories BUT this entire universe is subject to the will of Bungie they ultimately decide. Is Humanity Precursor or Forerunner? then how could the Prophets use the ship on their homeworld if you needed a Biological fingerprint wouldn't that make the Prophets and Humans related?


Huragok - Engineers, whatever you want to call them. They could pilot the ship.

Great theory OP. It seems pretty sound to me, and that comment by Frankie does seem to suggest those ruins were Precursor. One thing though - those statues of animals that apparently look like our own (I wouldn't know, never seen it) were quite possibly made hundreds of thousands of years ago. Animals would look nothing like they do today back then.

Other than a few things, your theory makes the most sense to me. Good to see someone really thinking :)

  • 08.11.2010 9:17 AM PDT

Space. The Final Frontier. These are the voyages of Murphy's Laws on the StarShip Enterprise

We don't exactly know the numbers of the precursors to the exact degree, but they may have seen the flood as beneath them if they created the flood. They then could have moved around galaxies spreading their DNA to different planets, creating most of the bipedal species (apart from the forerunners, who were in a low tier stage, say about tier 6,) in part due to the flood trying to take over them. They then left something to the forerunners, which then spread across the galaxy using some of the advanced technology. The forerunners eventually could have implanted some of their DNA into the human race, seeing them as some kind of descendant of the precursors. Also, the flood in the milky way could have been used as a scientific experiment to find the best way to destroy them. As we don't know how the forerunners discovered the flood, or how the flood got to the milky way, they were likely brought here and over-ran the installation by the forerunners messing something up and letting the flood escape before they knew how much of a menace they could be.

  • 08.11.2010 2:27 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

"You were weak... and gods must be strong."


Posted by: Wolverfrog
Spark was rampant. And even before then he was confused. In Combat Evolved, he believed you were the Forerunner who had activated the ring the first time around. And he admitted himself he knew nothing more about Forerunner culture than what he needed to know to run Installation 04.


Erm, he was referring to his previous superiors. He didn't actually think Chief was the Forerunner responsible for firing the rings.

"You once asked me," Refers to those who were in charge of firing the rings/the owners of the Forerunner tech. In that case, the Forerunners. Since humans are Reclaimers, they now own the Forerunner tech or the rings.

Since they're in the superiority position, 343 was referring to the last activation more in this way:

"You (Forerunners and eventually reclaimers) once asked me if I would do it. Having had considerable time to ponder your query, my answer remains unchanged." (Pardon if the quote wasn't exact).

But no, it's always been pretty obvious to me he's just considering John an honorary Forerunner; he assumes humanity has some of the wisdom of the Forerunners and thus would understand the reference.

  • 08.11.2010 2:34 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]


Posted by: H3 Crimson
Huragok - Engineers, whatever you want to call them. They could pilot the ship.


They had not discovered the Engineers remember they were not a part of Prophet society but a part of Covenant Society the first alien race the Prophets came into contact with were the Elites.

[Edited on 08.12.2010 4:01 PM PDT]

  • 08.12.2010 4:00 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]
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( Í¡° ͜ʖ Í¡° )

Wait- he's blacklisted?

  • 08.14.2010 12:03 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

Love you Bungie...

I have doubts that humanity is precursor but they are forunner because Halo Wars has Anders activate more than one forunner devices which only forunner not precursor could access.


Love you Bungie...

  • 08.19.2010 4:23 PM PDT

im an average person to play halo with. im not the best player youll ever see, but im working on it :)

"change is inevitable, except from a vending machine"

err... ninjaz he may be right about the engineers. they had been discovered. in halo 2 before the forerunner ship is lauched new mombassa is destroyed, ODST's are sent in to retrive the SI vergil, in halo 3 ODST whiich takes place at the same time and after the slipsace event (which is before the forerunner ship launch) there are engineers. so it could be possible that engineers with their skills with all technology launched the ship.

  • 08.20.2010 10:05 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

Cool One,,,
Thanks For Share..!!
Friendship SMS

  • 08.21.2010 12:47 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

By the power of truth, I, while living, have conquered the universe.

Posted by: Gigglesticksnot
I have doubts that humanity is precursor but they are forunner because Halo Wars has Anders activate more than one forunner devices which only forunner not precursor could access.


Love you Bungie...


*Faceanvil.*

Did you even read the theory? The reason that humans can use Forerunner technology is because the Forerunners passed down the Mantle to them, as the Precursors handed down the Mantle to the Forerunners.

  • 08.21.2010 2:22 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

"Bacon-There is no cure."

Wolverfrog you should totally just write a book and then tell bungie to make it canon...your theories are way better than the lame books

  • 08.22.2010 6:47 PM PDT

For those who dare to read this long wall of text:
I'm gonna go out on a wild stretch here so bear with me. We have to wonder about the Neolithic origins in the Halo Universe, and how and why the Forerunner and/or the Precursors fit into this picture. Let's look back at our past. How is it that our species acquired such a great amount of intelligence in such a short amount of time? According to a man famous for rather wild and interesting theories, Terence McKenna mentions in one of his lectures that the human neo cortex is "the most dramatic transformation of a major organ of a higher animal in the entire fossil record." Now I know mushrooms aren't really mentioned in the Halo Universe and I don't want you guys to think of me as a hippie or anything but check out his theory:

"McKenna hypothesized that as the North African jungles receded and gave way to savannas and grasslands near the end of the most recent ice age, a branch of our tree-dwelling primate ancestors left the forest canopy and began to live in the open areas outside of the forest. There they experimented with new varieties of foods as they adapted, physically and mentally, to their new environment.

Among the new food items found in this new environment were psilocybin-containing mushrooms growing near the dung of ungulate herds that occupied the savannas and grasslands at that time. McKenna, referencing the research of Roland L. Fisher, claimed that enhancement of visual acuity was an effect of psilocybin at low doses, and supposed that this would have conferred an adaptive advantage. He also argued that the effects of slightly larger doses, including -blam!- arousal, and in still larger doses, ecstatic hallucinations and glossolalia gave selective evolutionary advantages to members of those tribes who partook of it. There were many changes caused by the introduction of this psychoactive mushroom to the primate diet. McKenna hypothesizes, for instance, that synesthesia (the blurring of boundaries between the senses) caused by psilocybin led to the development of spoken language: the ability to form pictures in another person's mind through the use of vocal sounds.

About 12,000 years ago, further climate changes removed psilocybin-containing mushrooms from the human diet. McKenna argued that this event resulted in a new set of profound changes in our species as we reverted to the previous brutal primate social structures that had been modified and/or repressed by frequent consumption of psilocybin." -Wikipedia.org

This man believed that these mushrooms were essentially some kind of universal teaching device, and let's be fair here, quite a few different cultures integrated them into their society, such as the Mayans, Indians (no not the Native Americans though some are included), and several African cultures, but to expand on this theory here's basically what he had to say about the mushrooms' purpose:

"I am old, older than thought in your species, which is itself fifty times older than your history. Though I have been on earth for ages I am from the stars. My home is no one planet, for many worlds scattered through the shining disc of the galaxy have conditions which allow my spores an opportunity for life. The mushroom which you see is the part of my body given to sex thrills and sun bathing, my true body is a fine network of fibers growing through the soil. These networks may cover acres and may have far more connections that the number in a human brain. My mycelial network is nearly immortal, only the sudden toxification of a planet or the explosion of its parent star can wipe me out. By means impossible to explain because of certain misconceptions in your model of reality all my mycelial networks in the galaxy are in hyperlight communication across space and time. The mycelial body is as fragile as a spider's web but the collective hypermind and memory is a vast historical archive of the career of evolving intelligence on many worlds in our spiral star swarm. Space, you see, is a vast ocean to those hardy life forms that have the ability to reproduce from spores, for spores are covered with the hardest organic substance known. Across the aeons of time and space drift many spore-forming life-forms in suspended animation for millions of years until contact is made with a suitable environment. Few such species are minded, only myself and my recently evolved near relatives have achieved the hyper-communication mode and memory capacity that makes us leading members in the community of galactic intelligence. How the hypercommunication mode operates is a secret which will not be lightly given to man. But the means should be obvious: it is the occurrence of psilocybin and psilocin in the biosynthetic pathways of my living body that opens for me and my symbiots the vision screens to many worlds. You as an individual and man as a species are on the brink of the formation of a symbiotic relationship with my genetic material that will eventually carry humanity and earth into the galactic mainstream of the higher civilizations.

Since it is not easy for you to recognize other varieties of intelligence around you, your most advanced theories of politics and society have advanced only as far as the notion of collectivism. But beyond the cohesion of the members of a species into a single social organism there lie richer and even more baroque evolutionary possibilities. Symbiosis is one of these. Symbiosis is a relation of mutual dependence and positive benefits for both of the species involved. Symbiotic relationships between myself and civilized forms of higher animals have been established many times and in many places throughout the long ages of my development. These relationships have been mutually useful; within my memory is the knowledge of hyperlight drive ships and how to build them. I will trade this knowledge for a free ticket to new worlds around suns younger and more stable than your own. To secure an eternal existence down the long river of cosmic time I again and again offer this agreement to higher beings and thereby have spread throughout the galaxy over the long millennia. A mycelial network has no organs to move the world, no hands; but higher animals with manipulative abilities can become partners with the star knowledge within me and if they act in good faith, return both themselves and their humble mushroom teacher to the million worlds all citizens of our starswarm are heir to."

So what if the Precursors essentially seeded the galaxies with their inner workings, and several species with their DNA. There is a possibility of essentially sending their way of life this way to other places... Because in such a short amount of time on seperate parts of the globe the entire human species were able to come up with strikingly similar forms of society and architecture etc. I mean just look at the video game Assassin's Creed 2 for an anology with all the glyphs you have to search for. The fact that some of the Mayan glyphs in Central America and the glyphs from Angkor Wat in the East Pacific bear a striking resemblance to Forerunner and Precursors glyphs. We also have Easter Island, the Nazca Lines, Stone Henge, etc. Many of these cultures also had a fascination with the stars. The Gravemind and the Flood fits into this theory as well, the idea of spores latching on to other lifeforms and what not, although the Flood would be of the more poisonous or parasitic variety of course, not to mention they feed off their intelligence. There's a type of parasitic fungus which does the same thing to ants, it's called Cordyceps, here's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80uSaxHXdk8

Here's some examples of human ruins and glyphs compared to the Forerunner:

Mayan glyphs: http://www.2012awareness.com/mayan_glyphs.jpg
http://emergent-culture.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/parts-o f-the-mayan-calendar.jpg]
Angkor Wat: http://www.images-photography-pictures.net/Angkor-Wat-Cambodi a-Siem-Reap-Hrtfried-Schmid.jpg
http://comps.fotosearch.com/comp/UNZ/UNZ898/angkor-wat-_~u118 65089.jpg
Forerunner glyphs: http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/cocop/The%20Covenant/Th e%20Covenant%20Large/HologramGlyphs-large.jpg
http://www.ascendantjustice.com/files/cocop/The%20Covenant/Th e%20Covenant%20Small/Halo1Glyphs.PNG
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff274/MyzticStrike/Glyph2. png

And here's a 6 minute lecture on the idea of spores as an alien probe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljy3TH1T0jk
Tell me what you guys think.



  • 08.27.2010 1:10 PM PDT

perhaps the precurcers could not alter themselfs to genetic perfection and changed into the flood the "perfect" race without war because they are one.

[Edited on 08.28.2010 8:32 PM PDT]

  • 08.28.2010 8:30 PM PDT

Never say you're bored. Never say you're satisfied with the world. Never stop doubting or questioning things. Always wonder. Always think. But always take time to drop your guard, you don't have to be smart all the time.


Posted by: dragmirex17
perhaps the precurcers could not alter themselfs to genetic perfection and changed into the flood the "perfect" race without war because they are one.


No they could, but why didn't they?
Acceleration of eveloution could have had some risks,even for the precursors?

  • 09.03.2010 4:43 PM PDT

Favorite video game series: Professor Layton or Half-Life
Favorite video game: Super Mario Galaxy
Favorite movie series: Pixar (It's not really a series, but I just can't pick.)
Favorite movie: Inception

It all falls into place. Everything makes sense.

Here's probably how this will be revealed: The first dozen pages of Antediluvian, the first book in the Forerunner trilogy, will tell the story of Forerunners seeing the Humans for the first time. They'll be all like ''They look familiar'' and all that.

Anyway, this would be a good reason why they passed the mantle down to the Humans, and not something more capable, like Sanghelli. I'll be talking about Sanghelli in a second. Basically, they find out that the Humans are what remains of the Precursors, which gives them the name Reclaimers. As you said, they reclaim what they have lost.

Also, the Sanghelli also have a very Japanese-style culture. I wonder, do they know about the Precursors coming up with this idea first, or did they just randomly find some blue-prints? I think the former is more likely.

  • 09.07.2010 1:14 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]

neto

humanity has a direct link to forerunners cause in halo legends say that fore runners built halo when in sigma octanus IV covenant tried to get their dirty hands on some forerunners maps thats allowed cortana to fint the halo instalation 04 acordding to the fall of reach also humanity didnt have idea that they have the maps the forerunners left behind they seemed to be just a weird rock in order to know why the covenant wanted those rocks dr halsey oredered cortana to analise it even cortana couldnt`t know that those rocks where maps dr. halsey in last try to unveil the secret takes cortana to analize all the info gathered including the ruins under castle base in reach then the reimainig four members are directed to that place to get cortana out of there and get her to the pillar of autumn it leave justa a few hors before the real covenant fleet arrives reach pillar of autumn retourns to reach before jumping slipspacebecause they were requested to defend reach when all seemed lost and all the spartans under master chief command went KIA they enacted cole protocole using cortana as the only active AI onboard when cortana was generating the random escape jump she realized that she had an ancient map of the universe and therwas 1 zone highlighted on the map she uses that coordinates and vuala you just jumped from all previous events that take the master chief into halo CE

  • 09.15.2010 10:58 PM PDT

This theory is interesting speculation, I'm looking forward to future updates if any more details are uncovered.

  • 09.15.2010 11:16 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

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Not sure if this has been stated before or anything, but reading your post this thought crossed my mind.

When Guilty Spark says to John 117 "You are Forerunner", what if he's being completely honest and we just misinterpreted what exactly he meant.

If the Precursors came before the Forerunners, then that means that they probably played the same role the Forerunners play for humanity. Guilty Spark was created by the the race we call Forerunners, but why would they refer to themselves as 'Forerunner'? It's an expression that humanity assigned to them after the fact. So if Guilty Spark were to search for the closest English expression equivalent to use in order to refer to a race that came before his own, what word would he find? "Forerunner."

  • 09.16.2010 2:37 AM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]

Could not the precursors have "seeded" worlds with their DNA? Forunners "Took Root" and advanced much sooner than humanity, then when the Forunners discover Earth, they find other humans at a much earlier stage of devolopment.

  • 09.16.2010 2:40 AM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]


Posted by: Wolverfrog
Posted by: T4NGLEWOOD
wolverfrog youre theory seems completly solid but it isnt.

if the precursors were more advanced then the forunners why did they need rescuing from the flood by being taken to the ark?


Because at that time they were advanced no longer. I state this clearly in the theory.
I thought that when the gravemind says "child of my enemey" he was talking to Mendicant Bias, a Forunner Created AI.

also gdude said about the graveminds quote "child of mine enemy...". the forunners were the enemy of the flood, as was any life form that resisted the hold of the flood. that must mean that we are NOT! biologically forunner but bieng a special species to the forunners they may have "adopted" us as the heirs to all that they created.

Your opinion. I'd argue that the Gravemind was once in conflict with the Precursors, and with you being their descendants, then it stands to reason that he'd call your the child of his enemy.

they saw our potential and here is my theory to the first activation of the hola array.

the forunners see our potential and take us to the ark to store us. but i think that they draw the flood away from earth acting as our scape goat.

with the forunners gone no one can reactivate the halos in the rise of another flood threat. so the forunners use the humans to activate the rings (sort of giving our species the security clearance if you like) so that we may one day reach the ark and reclaim what was once handed to us like a family heirloom.

after this the forunners flee bringing the flood away from earth after the first firing. then the forunners on the ark take the humans and recolonise the earth with its original species. then they leave for good.

now here is the part how john 117 is referred to as "forunner" to spark. the human that they used to fire the rings somehow has a biological fingerprint (dna records perhaps) and these are recognised by the systems of the ark and the other halo's. and that the human used is one of johns ancestors (biologically). there fore when activating the first halo (installation 04) his "biological fingerprint" is recognised by the halo from the arks systems and installation 04 (being the ring of guilty spark) shares all data with its respective monitor (spark). this leads spark to believe that john is forunner.


Cool story bro. I don't see how it's relevant to this theory though. Maybe you should make your own thread.

this may not explain entirly that the original theory in this thread is wrong but it may not be right either.

That's why it's a theory, and not fact.

  • 09.16.2010 2:41 AM PDT

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Hi Guys-
OK Wolverfrog, I like your theory, and it kinda makes sense. However, when Fred got that 'Frustratingly familiar' feeling-what if the humans of old (aka those on the Ark) had learned from the Forerunners? Maybe he recognized it because the Forerunners taught it to his ancestors. Same for 117. Everything else makes sense, though. Good catch.

  • 09.29.2010 2:58 PM PDT