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This topic has moved here: Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
  • Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

Posted by: Newfie Spartain


That's an interesting idea, but I'm pretty convinced that the Forerunners came after the Precursors. In the Terminals in Halo 3, it's pretty clear that the Forerunners seem to worship the Precursors perhaps in a similar fashion to how the Covenant worship the Forerunners. They believe the Mantle was passed down to them by the Precursors, and they believe that the Precursors went on some kind of Great Journey.

Then they discovered humanity on Earth, and soon after that the Didact, who in previous entries expressed his blind devotion to the religious Mantle, said "Mantle be damned!"

This implies that the Forerunners discovered the truth about the Precursors, through observing humanity. They realised that, in a similar way to the Covenant discovering the truth about the Forerunners, the Precursors were no more godly creatures than them.

  • 02.18.2010 3:34 AM PDT

Please don't send me PMs about your Bungie group. I don't care.
Posted by: Atik L Yar

I hear you BTW, Kat is the worst AI I have ever had in my turret. The Elite who hi-jacked her was better!

I like where your head is at. But wait until the book trilogy on the Forerunners comes out. Then you should get some background info on the Precursors.

  • 02.18.2010 6:31 AM PDT

You better close this sig when your done.

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Wow, That is an amazing theory.

  • 02.18.2010 9:11 AM PDT

Ya, I know now after reading a few more forums. Forget I even posted that and I think I may have inhaled some noxious fumes. In short, im an idiot.

  • 02.18.2010 1:16 PM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Posted by: grey101
Posted by: Wolverfrog


Now you see, it is talking about Earth, and the 'unique denizens' are humanity. It leaves you with the questions, why must we be researched? What answers can we give to the Forerunners? Surely simply being chosen by the Forerunners to carry on their work in the event that they perish does not grant us this amount of awe?


However, what if the Precursors had not been wiped out, but in fact, merely faded away, realising that omniscience was a terrible burden. A likely scenario is that the Precursors encountered the Flood, which would make the Flood much like the Reapers in Mass Effect; they wipe out cultures once they are advanced enough. The Flood could have forced the Precursors back into hiding, where they lost all their technology. Eventually, perhaps only one world, Earth, remained, and so eventually the Precursors had lost all of their knowledge and power, and became what we know today as humanity.

I know you think a species 'devolving' seems unlikely, but I will direct you here to the case of the Brutes. At one point in their history, they were as advanced as the Covenant, until a civil war threw them back into the industrial age. Something similar of this sort could have happened to the Precursors.

In the sixth terminal, the Librarian states this to the Didact.

We knew this was a special place because of them, but unless you've been here, you can't know.

Now that seems to be good proof. She is calling Earth a special place because of them. Just who are 'them?' Humanity springs to mind, but what if she was talking about the Precursors?



Update 1.2


Now let's jump to First Strike. Halsey and the Spartans discover a network of what they believe to be 'Forerunner caverns' underneath the ONI CASTLE facility. Inside these ruins, they discover a crystal, which can bend space and time. It seems awfully advanced, even for the Forerunners.

Now, what if the Forerunners hadn't built the caverns and crystal, but the Precursors had?



Overall it's a decent though unlikely theory, personally we don't know enough about the connection between the forerunners and precursors enough for any theory to have any sort of weight. the most we know is that the ruins in babysitter were not forerunner, which doesn't mean much because it was implied in "conversations of the universe" that another race might have let the flood out on delta halo. Honestly, for anybody doing any precursor theory, just wait for more info because we know nothing.


Now on to your theory.

1. The forerunners probably though we were special for our genetics or because of us in general. scientist find new animals daily and the "weird" ones fascinate them the most because they wonder what they can learn from them.

2.we honestly don't know anything on why the flood does what the flood do, hell the flood don't even know why other than it's natural to them. and comparing the flood to the reapers is unlikely because the forerunners found the flood, if that research team never went down on the moon they would still have their large empire today.

3. the Brutes didn't natively have technology advanced as the covenant, that was humanity and the Lekgolo. Brutes only started to developed space travel until they started to fight again, after that they were stuck on their homeworld.

4.the Librarian was talking about the humans, IRIS was an ARG based around humanity's relation to the forerunners and the forerunners fight with the flood. The precursors are a legend, noting more at this point.

5. The crystal is forerunner tech, it's much like the crystal from Sigma Octanus IV only with time bending ability's. The forerunner had a mastery of slipspace and this crystal is just another example of it, just because it was pretty far out doesn't mean it wasn't forerunner. Hell the ark wasn't even in our galaxy but we all know who made it. And for any constellation it was blue, the forerunners signature color. :)

and remember the forerunner did do things prior to meeting the flood, we don't know the date of when they made that complex but im sure it was made long before they met the flood.

  • 02.18.2010 3:56 PM PDT

@grey

1. That doesn't answer why they think we hold the secrets to their own past. They also discovered what would later become the Covenant species, yet didn't show the same amount of interest.

2. The Flood is ruled by an omniscient overlord, the Gravemind, who has a grand scheme. They're also extra-galactic. They didn't originate on G617. They would have eventually come into contact with the Forerunners.

3. Did I say they were as advanced as the Covenant? My bad. Regardless, it doesn't make a difference.

4. I don't know what you're trying to say here. She was obviously talking about Earth and humanity. There's no other way of looking at it. This theory is saying that the Precursors and humans are one and the same. So saying that "she's talking about humans," doesn't mean anything.

5. The Ark was just beyond the rim, not millions of light years into dark space. The crystal could affect time, I've never seen anything else suggesting that the Forerunners could affect time. Also, I don't know what you're trying to say with the blue constellations thing. The Forerunners couldn't paint solar systems.

I might be missing some things you're saying, but to be candid you didn't express your opinions in the clearest fashion.

  • 02.18.2010 4:12 PM PDT
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you're naut cookin'

@wolverfrog

I just read all of the Original post. I like this thread. Really interesting theory.

Just about Point 2 there, the Gravemind isn't singular, wherever there are mass populations of Flood, they will form up into a Gravemind (much like Lekgolo). Also, they're not omniscient, they're just hive minded (like Geth in ME).

But yeah, great thread.

  • 02.18.2010 11:19 PM PDT

Actually, the Encyclopedia says that only one Gravemind can exist at a time. It contains the knowledge of all previous Graveminds, including every single scrap of Forerunner data.

It's pretty close to omniscience.

  • 02.19.2010 1:10 AM PDT
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you're naut cookin'

EDIT: I'm not crazy, someone has deleted their post inbetween my two.

Ah okay, I didn't know that.

I wonder how it is the Gravemind ends up with all previous knowledge from other Graveminds. Perhaps some kind of Assassin's Creed DNA memory encoding or something?

[Edited on 03.04.2010 11:20 PM PST]

  • 02.19.2010 1:48 AM PDT
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Deva Path


Posted by: DecepticonCobra

We are all going to get banned aren't we?

Posted by: Wolverfrog
Actually, the Encyclopedia says that only one Gravemind can exist at a time. It contains the knowledge of all previous Graveminds, including every single scrap of Forerunner data.

It's pretty close to omniscience.

The CE edition of halo 3 states that it is possible for 2 graveminds to form. 1 stating mobile and the other immobile. It then states they could "theoretically" form a super gravemind".

  • 02.19.2010 2:19 AM PDT

Posted by: Dropship dude
No, acnboy. Spartain Ken 15 is a lesser being. Much like the bacteria that lives in your shi­t.
Posted by: mike120593
My shi­t bacteria takes offense to that comparison.

Don't make me lel. You won't like me when I lel.

*head asplodes*

How didn't I know this was here? You have more talents than I originally thought, Wolvie.

  • 02.19.2010 4:02 AM PDT
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Ad Majora Natus Sum

Very nice theory.

You should email your thoughts to the guy writing the forerunner novels, you might give him some ideas.

  • 02.19.2010 8:32 AM PDT
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sweet i think its all true good points

  • 02.21.2010 7:15 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]

http://www.bungie.net/fanclub/blackwaterops/Group/GroupHome.a spx

i agree with this theory

  • 03.03.2010 2:56 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

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5. The Ark was just beyond the rim, not millions of light years into dark space. The crystal could affect time, I've never seen anything else suggesting that the Forerunners could affect time. Also, I don't know what you're trying to say with the blue constellations thing. The Forerunners couldn't paint solar systems.

I Love Bees was accepted as canon. In that story a UNSC ship discovers a Forerunner artifact that sends an AI program back in time to two separate points.

Read up on it. Or just look over the new Encyclopedia. Between it and Origins the whole Precursors are Humans thing is already sufficiently disproved. The Forerunner novels will be the nail in the coffin I suspect.

  • 03.03.2010 3:33 PM PDT
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I am not sure if anyone else pointed this out, but there are way too many post to read to go and find one small thing.

Anyways, I agree with your original assessment that the Precursors home world had to be Earth. If we assume that humans are the descendants of the Precursors. The reason why we can confirm Earth as the home world is because of genetic DNA that links humans to all sorts of different animals on Earth. We share tons of our DNA with different animals, like dogs, snakes, apes, mice, etc; therefore, it is irrefutable evidence that humanity (Precursors) started out on Earth, and that Earth WAS the home world.

**EDIT**

I would also like to ask my own question here. Has it been confirmed that the reason the Precursors disappeared was BECAUSE of the Flood? I read a few post asking why the Precursors, if more advanced than the Forerunners, couldn't find a way to kill the Flood off. If it has not been confirmed that the Precursors demise was due in part to the Flood then we can not say for sure rather or not the Flood were the only threat to this part of the galaxy.


[Edited on 03.03.2010 6:47 PM PST]

  • 03.03.2010 6:43 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]

The original post was probably the most well thought out and accomplished post here on the non-game section of Bnet.

Congrats and thanks for the good read.

  • 03.03.2010 6:58 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]

I Love Bees is only semi-canon, and if I understand correctly, the AI being sent back in time is one of the parts being subject to scepticism.

Also, we don't actually know for sure that the Precursors were wiped out by the Flood, but considering the fact that they seemingly vanished, and added to the heavily implied knowledge that the Flood far surpass the Forerunners in age, then it's pretty likely.

And also, so far, 343's work has done NOTHING but support this theory to be honest. That's not me being arrogant either. Seriously, I've been meaning to do a partial update discussing the letter in the back of Halo: Evolutions, which further supports this theory.

Origins hasn't really disproved it at all to be honest, unless you've seen more than I have.

  • 03.03.2010 11:45 PM PDT
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you're naut cookin'

I thought that the Precursors accidently created The Flood and ended up fighting them, until they decided this galaxy was a lost cause and just fled to another.

Dunno how that ties in with The Flood being extra-galactical though.

  • 03.03.2010 11:49 PM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 1.1]

The man with the plan...sometimes.

Forerunners are for the win

  • 03.04.2010 8:48 PM PDT

Head asplodes also* gurrrhhh

  • 03.17.2010 7:15 AM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors?

O hai

Coupled with the Frankie confirmation, this is genius.

  • 03.17.2010 11:40 AM PDT

Send me $50 and I'll tell you how to get rich

Wow you might have just found out one of Bungie's biggest secrets.

  • 03.18.2010 12:39 AM PDT
Subject: Humanity are not Forerunners, but in fact Precursors? [Update 2.0]
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When I got halo 3, I had never played or even heard of Halo, Halo2 or anything. I was exploring forge for the first time and i was just playing around with the weapons, until i saw the sentinel beam (i know this sounds stupid but) and thought-"Wait havent i seen this thing before." I then said to myself *Imma firin ma orange laser*. Then as i watched the orange laser left black marks on the wall i thought "holy *BLAM*".

Later that day i went into theater mode and saw the monitor or 343 Guilty spark and thought the same things as the sentinel beam.

Pretty Creepy. FOR ALL WE KNOW WE COULD BE PRECURSORS! HOW COULD WE TELL?! Please reply if you agree.

P.S: I totally agree with you wolvefrog.

P.P.S: The Forerunners and the Flood could be like Alien Vs Predator. The Forerunners created the Flood generations ago to show that they are worthy, then the Flood was wiped out(the halo rings were premature to firing and they were destroyed leaving no trace to the reclaimers) due to it becoming able to conjoin to make a Gravemind and becoming too powerful, but........ the Flood had moved to another galaxy to retreat. After the Forerunners Devolved they lost all history of this Flood fighting Culture and as the took responsibility for the galaxy the flood striked and as the forerunners had no knowledge of it or its weakness they went by instinct and wiped them out via Halo Rings, leaving a civilisation of Forerunner on Earth, this Cicilisation somehow Devolved and Re-evolved into humans. Leading to the Halo events where humanity found the Halo rings and also the flood (a single spore on the Forerunner keyship that escaped onto Alpha Halo and floated until it came across an unsuspecting covenant species and spread in the bowels of the ring and the covenant relased it upon finding out that humans had landed on the ring) and in the end destroyed it, or did they? The Flood could have moved back to the previous galaxy and could return when humans are the new Forerunners to the next Precursors.

[Edited on 03.21.2010 8:58 PM PDT]

  • 03.21.2010 8:26 PM PDT
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Ima Dinasaur!

I am convinced that humans are Precursor decendents.

  • 03.23.2010 5:53 AM PDT