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This topic has moved here: Subject: Would you like Brutes in MP?
  • Subject: Would you like Brutes in MP?
Subject: Would you like Brutes in MP?
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Posted by: z0rgy
well, they probably spend a month imagining and thinking only, how many perms, their background story, and their design. and modeling EACH must take like a good 3 weeks for each helmet/armor... they'd need HUGE amount of time only to make more than 5 perms per race if brutes are in mp too.
that's why I'd rather have only 2 well done races than 3 half done.


Because you know how much time they spend on making armor. .

  • 09.01.2009 12:23 PM PDT
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Proud frenchie, elite fan, anthro artist not hellbent on yiff convention/pics/whatever, mature and intelligent forum guy, 4chaner, halo 2 lover and halo 3 hater.

no I don't. that's why I said "probably".

I do know however that it takes a LONG time to model something and get it in the game (from designing the shape with sketches and drawings, to modelling (longest part) and texturing, then coding, etc).

the more things you add, the more time you need, that's a fact...

  • 09.01.2009 12:25 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

The reason you can play as Elites in MP is because they are very similar to Spartans. When standing, they are around the same height and they have similar strength. Add to that the fact that Elites are classed as Intelligent Opponents, very similar to Spartans, and they have Rechargeable Energy Shields. Brutes have none of these.
Why would Bungie add a character (which is very unlikely to be in SP) into MP, who is completely unbalanced compared to Spartans and Elites. The thing about Halo is that the Multiplayer is completely fair: You start off with (basically) the same character attributes, the same weapons, and a fairly equal distance away from Power Weapons. Why upset this Balance?

  • 09.01.2009 12:26 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

People have little argument to NOT have them in Multplayer. Apparantly Bungie was going to put them in Halo 3 but schedule forced them not to, so obviously from this it's assumable that Bungie is quite happy putting Brutes in Halo Multiplayer experiences.

I personally think it's a brilliant idea! Just some changes needed though. :/

  • 09.01.2009 12:27 PM PDT
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Posted by: NME Overlord
The reason you can play as Elites in MP is because they are very similar to Spartans. When standing, they are around the same height and they have similar strength. Add to that the fact that Elites are classed as Intelligent Opponents, very similar to Spartans, and they have Rechargeable Energy Shields. Brutes have none of these.
Why would Bungie add a character (which is very unlikely to be in SP) into MP, who is completely unbalanced compared to Spartans and Elites. The thing about Halo is that the Multiplayer is completely fair: You start off with (basically) the same character attributes, the same weapons, and a fairly equal distance away from Power Weapons. Why upset this Balance?


SWAT maybe? Why do you think everyone is an Elite? Because it is NOT fair.

  • 09.01.2009 12:29 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: Lozza
I would personnally just like Elites vs Spartans....

Elites versus Spartans? As it is now its more like Elites and Spartans vs other Elites and Spartans, or more commonly, Spartans vs Spartans, with an Elite or two in the mix tryin to keep the peace.

Brutes should be in, to add more variety and make it more fun.

[Edited on 09.01.2009 12:33 PM PDT]

  • 09.01.2009 12:33 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

Elites are only harder to headshot from the front. When they are running at a right angle to you, the long neck and head is so much easier to shoot than Spartans.

Plus, if Elites are not fair, Brutes would not even be in the same league. Without Energy shields the Halo concept is lost: Shoot, kill, hide while your shield recharges. Brutes at the moment are incredibly tough without energy shields, so imagine them with.

  • 09.01.2009 12:33 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: NME Overlord
Elites are only harder to headshot from the front. When they are running at a right angle to you, the long neck and head is so much easier to shoot than Spartans.

Plus, if Elites are not fair, Brutes would not even be in the same league. Without Energy shields the Halo concept is lost: Shoot, kill, hide while your shield recharges. Brutes at the moment are incredibly tough without energy shields, so imagine them with.

They just need to add the energy shields, and make the health the same. They CAN do that you know, it is EASY to do that.

They could make a grunt like that, a player model is just a skin, it has nothing to do with "Melee Power" or any of that unless bungie SPECIFICALLY CHANGES THE STATS ATTACHED TO THE SKIN.

Which they won't do.

[Edited on 09.01.2009 12:35 PM PDT]

  • 09.01.2009 12:34 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: iMatt360z
Posted by: NME Overlord
The reason you can play as Elites in MP is because they are very similar to Spartans. When standing, they are around the same height and they have similar strength. Add to that the fact that Elites are classed as Intelligent Opponents, very similar to Spartans, and they have Rechargeable Energy Shields. Brutes have none of these.
Why would Bungie add a character (which is very unlikely to be in SP) into MP, who is completely unbalanced compared to Spartans and Elites. The thing about Halo is that the Multiplayer is completely fair: You start off with (basically) the same character attributes, the same weapons, and a fairly equal distance away from Power Weapons. Why upset this Balance?


SWAT maybe? Why do you think everyone is an Elite? Because it is NOT fair.

O wait, in Halo 2 Elites were EASIER to headshot. This is just the Elite players' revenge for sucking at SWAT before :P

  • 09.01.2009 12:36 PM PDT
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Proud frenchie, elite fan, anthro artist not hellbent on yiff convention/pics/whatever, mature and intelligent forum guy, 4chaner, halo 2 lover and halo 3 hater.

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: iMatt360z
Posted by: NME Overlord
The reason you can play as Elites in MP is because they are very similar to Spartans. When standing, they are around the same height and they have similar strength. Add to that the fact that Elites are classed as Intelligent Opponents, very similar to Spartans, and they have Rechargeable Energy Shields. Brutes have none of these.
Why would Bungie add a character (which is very unlikely to be in SP) into MP, who is completely unbalanced compared to Spartans and Elites. The thing about Halo is that the Multiplayer is completely fair: You start off with (basically) the same character attributes, the same weapons, and a fairly equal distance away from Power Weapons. Why upset this Balance?


SWAT maybe? Why do you think everyone is an Elite? Because it is NOT fair.

O wait, in Halo 2 Elites were EASIER to headshot. This is just the Elite players' revenge for sucking at SWAT before :P


I demand we get more perms and a special armor that spartans will NEVER have then!

  • 09.01.2009 12:40 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: NME Overlord
Elites are only harder to headshot from the front. When they are running at a right angle to you, the long neck and head is so much easier to shoot than Spartans.

Plus, if Elites are not fair, Brutes would not even be in the same league. Without Energy shields the Halo concept is lost: Shoot, kill, hide while your shield recharges. Brutes at the moment are incredibly tough without energy shields, so imagine them with.

They just need to add the energy shields, and make the health the same. They CAN do that you know, it is EASY to do that.

They could make a grunt like that, a player model is just a skin, it has nothing to do with "Melee Power" or any of that unless bungie SPECIFICALLY CHANGES THE STATS ATTACHED TO THE SKIN.

Which they won't do.

Ah, but what you have said (underlined) will break the system already in place. Elites are weak without their shields in campaign, but daunting with. Plus on Normal Mode, you can 4 shot them with a BR, which follows it in campaign. If you do as you said, you just ignore everything the campaign describes, and by doing so, you completely destroy the point of SP integration into MP.

If you fought against Spartans on Normal in the campaign, they would be as tough as they are in Multiplayer. The same is true with Elites. However, Brutes do not fit this mould. You would have to add things instead of just copying from Campaign into Multiplayer.

  • 09.01.2009 12:41 PM PDT

Elites in Halo 3 are already messed up. i mean you cant shoot them in the back of the head and you can shoot straight through their necks. BRUTES WILL NOT BE IN REACH. and please, i beg you, let me see your awful stats Donald Duck. I never said i was "MLG" by the way, i was just making a point that Elites in Halo 2 and 3 take away from the competitiveness of the game and thats why i don't want to see them in RANKED matches. i already said Customs and Social would be fine. even though i know its not gonna happen nor do i really want it to.

  • 09.01.2009 12:41 PM PDT

if it were up to me id just put spartans

  • 09.01.2009 12:48 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: NME Overlord
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: NME Overlord
Elites are only harder to headshot from the front. When they are running at a right angle to you, the long neck and head is so much easier to shoot than Spartans.

Plus, if Elites are not fair, Brutes would not even be in the same league. Without Energy shields the Halo concept is lost: Shoot, kill, hide while your shield recharges. Brutes at the moment are incredibly tough without energy shields, so imagine them with.

They just need to add the energy shields, and make the health the same. They CAN do that you know, it is EASY to do that.

They could make a grunt like that, a player model is just a skin, it has nothing to do with "Melee Power" or any of that unless bungie SPECIFICALLY CHANGES THE STATS ATTACHED TO THE SKIN.

Which they won't do.

Ah, but what you have said (underlined) will break the system already in place. Elites are weak without their shields in campaign, but daunting with. Plus on Normal Mode, you can 4 shot them with a BR, which follows it in campaign. If you do as you said, you just ignore everything the campaign describes, and by doing so, you completely destroy the point of SP integration into MP.

If you fought against Spartans on Normal in the campaign, they would be as tough as they are in Multiplayer. The same is true with Elites. However, Brutes do not fit this mould. You would have to add things instead of just copying from Campaign into Multiplayer.

Except not, because the stats arent attached to the brute skin, they are attached to the AI. If the skin was put on a player, the stats would be the SAME AS A SPARTAN, but the Spartan would LOOK LIKE A BRUTE. It would seriously be THAT easy. Just model in some First Person animations. Make a shield flickering effect, and Fix up the Hitboxis a little. BOOM instant playable Brute.

  • 09.01.2009 12:51 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: AYuDEAD
Elites in Halo 3 are already messed up. i mean you cant shoot them in the back of the head and you can shoot straight through their necks. BRUTES WILL NOT BE IN REACH. and please, i beg you, let me see your awful stats Donald Duck. I never said i was "MLG" by the way, i was just making a point that Elites in Halo 2 and 3 take away from the competitiveness of the game and thats why i don't want to see them in RANKED matches. i already said Customs and Social would be fine. even though i know its not gonna happen nor do i really want it to.

They do nothing to the competitiveness, by you logic in Street Fighter EVERYONE should HAVE to be Ryu, and in CoD, you should ALL be the same Class. They don't remove from the competitiveness AT ALL. I am plenty competitive, and I played as an Elite in the HALO 2 DAYS, when they were WAY EASIER TO KILL THAN SPARTANS.

  • 09.01.2009 12:53 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

I know that Bungie could put them in the game by doing what you say. I am arguing that they will have to change things to put them in the game, when Elites and Spartans are exact replicas as their campaign counterparts. Brutes would have to be changed, and to me, that spoils the illusion.

I didn't want to bring this up, but the trump card has to be played at some point. Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.

  • 09.01.2009 12:56 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: NME Overlord
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Posted by: NME Overlord
Elites are only harder to headshot from the front. When they are running at a right angle to you, the long neck and head is so much easier to shoot than Spartans.

Plus, if Elites are not fair, Brutes would not even be in the same league. Without Energy shields the Halo concept is lost: Shoot, kill, hide while your shield recharges. Brutes at the moment are incredibly tough without energy shields, so imagine them with.

They just need to add the energy shields, and make the health the same. They CAN do that you know, it is EASY to do that.

They could make a grunt like that, a player model is just a skin, it has nothing to do with "Melee Power" or any of that unless bungie SPECIFICALLY CHANGES THE STATS ATTACHED TO THE SKIN.

Which they won't do.

Ah, but what you have said (underlined) will break the system already in place. Elites are weak without their shields in campaign, but daunting with. Plus on Normal Mode, you can 4 shot them with a BR, which follows it in campaign. If you do as you said, you just ignore everything the campaign describes, and by doing so, you completely destroy the point of SP integration into MP.

If you fought against Spartans on Normal in the campaign, they would be as tough as they are in Multiplayer. The same is true with Elites. However, Brutes do not fit this mould. You would have to add things instead of just copying from Campaign into Multiplayer.

Except not, because the stats arent attached to the brute skin, they are attached to the AI. If the skin was put on a player, the stats would be the SAME AS A SPARTAN, but the Spartan would LOOK LIKE A BRUTE. It would seriously be THAT easy. Just model in some First Person animations. Make a shield flickering effect, and Fix up the Hitboxis a little. BOOM instant playable Brute.


Support for the argument:

- Brutes already have shields anyway - it's just that they break-off when they reach zero.
- It HAS been seen (in Halo 3) that Brutes can use Battle RIfles, Machine Gun Turrets, Fragmentation Grenades and Warthogs.
- They already have armour that can be different coloured (check Halo 3 campaign if you don't know that already....)
- 3 is better than 2, and just because they are considered "stupid", they are equals of Spartans/Elites.

  • 09.01.2009 12:57 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: NME Overlord
I know that Bungie could put them in the game by doing what you say. I am arguing that they will have to change things to put them in the game, when Elites and Spartans are exact replicas as their campaign counterparts. Brutes would have to be changed, and to me, that spoils the illusion.

I didn't want to bring this up, but the trump card has to be played at some point. Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.

They wouldn't though, when you change from a Spartan to an Elite you are changing NOTHING but how you look, it would be the same with the brute, you are just "Changing Armor Perms" easy, not hard.

And yes, they are stupid and ugly, but they are also a major enemy and a perfect counterpart to the Quick, Militaristic Spartans, and the Noble, Honor Bound Elites. They are the Big, Hairy, Apelike Brutes.

  • 09.01.2009 12:58 PM PDT
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Proud frenchie, elite fan, anthro artist not hellbent on yiff convention/pics/whatever, mature and intelligent forum guy, 4chaner, halo 2 lover and halo 3 hater.

Posted by: NME Overlord
Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.


looks like I'm not the only one not to be in favor of the apes.

  • 09.01.2009 12:59 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: z0rgy
Posted by: NME Overlord
Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.


looks like I'm not the only one not to be in favor of the apes.

Actually, what was I thinking calling the Brutes Apelike. Humans are directly related to the Apes. The Brutes are more like Hairy Rhinos.

  • 09.01.2009 1:00 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

Support for the argument:

- Brutes already have shields anyway - it's just that they break-off when they reach zero.
- It HAS been seen (in Halo 3) that Brutes can use Battle RIfles, Machine Gun Turrets, Fragmentation Grenades and Warthogs.
- They already have armour that can be different coloured (check Halo 3 campaign if you don't know that already....)
- 3 is better than 2, and just because they are considered "stupid", they are equals of Spartans/Elites.

Your argument that Brutes already have shields is flawed. By keeping that the same in MP, it means that the players on the map would not be equal. You take the Brute character down to no shields, and he stays there, basically instant death. You couldn't get sprees unless you were super sneaky, but as you are a massive fat Ape, that is nearly impossible.
I know that Brutes can use all weapons, that wasn't part of the arguement.
I know that they have different coloured armour, I've completed the campaign.
3 is not better than 2. If they are considered stupid, and only win due to a massive amount of strength, then surely they are not Equals. In results yes, but not in terms of ability.

  • 09.01.2009 1:02 PM PDT

Just enjoy the damn game!
Who cares about BR vs AR

Posted by: z0rgy
Posted by: NME Overlord
Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.


looks like I'm not the only one not to be in favor of the apes.

I'm with you on this zorgy... looks like its me and you versus all the non-believers.

  • 09.01.2009 1:04 PM PDT

Posted by: ElementalRunner

Posted by: Commander Stroll
Still using a pump-action shotgun over 500 years in the future I see.

omg not realistic stop game production plz

Posted by: z0rgy
Posted by: NME Overlord
Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.


looks like I'm not the only one not to be in favor of the apes.


And what if I wasn't in favour of "Stupid Dinosaurs?"

You can come up with an insult for all 3 of the races.

Spartans - Human Freak Experiments
Elites - Dinosaurs with bad backs
Brutes - Violent Apes

See?

  • 09.01.2009 1:05 PM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: CoolCJ24
Posted by: z0rgy
Posted by: NME Overlord
Brutes are the ugliest, foulest, stupidest, most despicable things that have ever been put into a Halo game...ever.


looks like I'm not the only one not to be in favor of the apes.


And what if I wasn't in favour of "Stupid Dinosaurs?"

You can come up with an insult for all 3 of the races.

Spartans - Human Freak Experiments
Elites - Dinosaurs with bad backs
Brutes - Violent Apes

See?


Ok, now I will do the Intelligence ones:

Spartans - Robots with no sense of independent thought.
Elites - Honor, Pride, and Nobility get in the way of Common Sense.
Brutes - Stupid... thats all there is to it.

Now I will do both for ODSTs...

Physique: Badass Marines in sick helmets.
Intelligence: Quick minded, witty, awesome.

And Johnson...

Physique: Even MORE badass Marine, doesn't need a helmet because he is awesome.
Intelligence: Quicker minded, more witty, and more awesome.

[Edited on 09.01.2009 1:11 PM PDT]

  • 09.01.2009 1:09 PM PDT