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This topic has moved here: Subject: I dont understand your logic, people.
  • Subject: I dont understand your logic, people.
Subject: I dont understand your logic, people.
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If you ever read the book.. "The fall of reach" then you'd realize they weren't in the book.. Infact they never even appeared in the Series until the end of the 3rd book, "First Strike" which was a prequel to Halo 2.

  • 09.05.2009 7:01 PM PDT

Posted by: DemonsFury
If you ever read the book.. "The fall of reach" then you'd realize they weren't in the book.. Infact they never even appeared in the Series until the end of the 3rd book, "First Strike" which was a prequel to Halo 2.

Brutes have been part of the Covenant for hundreds if not thousands of years. They started the war. "The Fall of Reach" barely even mentions the actual Battle of Reach.

  • 09.05.2009 7:05 PM PDT
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Yes but first strike had alot of the ground battle.. Out of the tens of thousands of covenant.. Not a single brute was on reach.. Nor were there records of them.. They didn't even know about hunters until right before John nuked Cote d' Azur

  • 09.05.2009 7:10 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: azliand
Posted by: DemonsFury
If you ever read the book.. "The fall of reach" then you'd realize they weren't in the book.. Infact they never even appeared in the Series until the end of the 3rd book, "First Strike" which was a prequel to Halo 2.

Brutes have been part of the Covenant for hundreds if not thousands of years. They started the war. "The Fall of Reach" barely even mentions the actual Battle of Reach.


The Brutes were still new to the Covenant and trying to get respect from the Elites before the battle at Harvest. So they deffinetly haven't been in the Covent for more then 100 years and that is still a high number.

It is true that The Fall of Reach doesn't mention much of what happens of the surface of Reach and focuses on what happened in orbit, but Halo First Strike details the battle on the Surface of the planet and Brutes are never seen on the surface of Reach.

  • 09.05.2009 7:13 PM PDT
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Thank you Assualt for helping to clarify that. :D The books were great huh?

  • 09.05.2009 7:15 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: DemonsFury
Thank you Assualt for helping to clarify that. :D The books were great huh?


Your welcome. Lol. I loved the books and I have read them multiple times. That is why I spend most of my time correcting people who have no idea what they are talking about. Lol.

Everyone read my thread titled Halo Reach, Real Info and NOT Speculation plus some wishes... if you want the real story on what Halo Reach will and will not be about.

  • 09.05.2009 7:18 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

In terms of Canon, I have no issues with Brutes being on Reach or in Halo: Reach.

My problem is in gameplay effect.

Brutes are terrible enemies, in that they provide no challenge, no spirit of combat, they do not have the will of the warrior. There is no satisfaction gained from killing a Brute, no honor. Their AI is terrible, and they break the rules of the game to become challenging.

Rules broken:
Chieftains armor reflects plasma/spiker grenades. No other enemy has had this ability.
Chieftains can become INVINCIBLE for a short period of time. No other enemy has had this ability.
Chieftans can "double tap" with their hammers.

Not only those issues above, but Brutes carry terrible equipment for themselves. Portable cover? Why? No covenant weapon can be fired through the defensive side of the shield, unlike UNSC weapons.
Regenerators. Again, why? Brutes don't have regenerating shields, and the difference it makes to health is negligable.
Power Drainers: How many humans are using MJOLNIR shielded armor? Brutes deploy these things all the time, unless you are in a vehicle. When it would matter.

Elites didn't need to break any of those rules to be challenging or good opponents. They had solid AI, and their shields acted as an ideal measure of their rank. The best elites' shields recharged faster than you could down them on Legendary, but they still could be killed. When a Chieftan is using his Invincibility, he is INVINCIBLE.

Elites didn't also lean their heads forward giving you a headshot when their shields went out. They charged you, or they let them recover. And when they rushed you, it was with a god damned energy sword, not hairy forearms.

  • 09.05.2009 7:47 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
In terms of Canon, I have no issues with Brutes being on Reach or in Halo: Reach.

My problem is in gameplay effect.

Brutes are terrible enemies, in that they provide no challenge, no spirit of combat, they do not have the will of the warrior. There is no satisfaction gained from killing a Brute, no honor. Their AI is terrible, and they break the rules of the game to become challenging.

Rules broken:
Chieftains armor reflects plasma/spiker grenades. No other enemy has had this ability.
Chieftains can become INVINCIBLE for a short period of time. No other enemy has had this ability.
Chieftans can "double tap" with their hammers.

Not only those issues above, but Brutes carry terrible equipment for themselves. Portable cover? Why? No covenant weapon can be fired through the defensive side of the shield, unlike UNSC weapons.
Regenerators. Again, why? Brutes don't have regenerating shields, and the difference it makes to health is negligable.
Power Drainers: How many humans are using MJOLNIR shielded armor? Brutes deploy these things all the time, unless you are in a vehicle. When it would matter.

Elites didn't need to break any of those rules to be challenging or good opponents. They had solid AI, and their shields acted as an ideal measure of their rank. The best elites' shields recharged faster than you could down them on Legendary, but they still could be killed. When a Chieftan is using his Invincibility, he is INVINCIBLE.

Elites didn't also lean their heads forward giving you a headshot when their shields went out. They charged you, or they let them recover. And when they rushed you, it was with a god damned energy sword, not hairy forearms.


I completely agree. The Elites were amazing and the Brutes suck....

  • 09.05.2009 8:16 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

I don't see YOUR logic. First off you obviously didn't read Contact: Harvest and are basing everything on crap. Or at least read the first and last page and claimed you did read it. The Brutes where the on ACCIDENT.


2. The books don't have brutes on Reach
3. Brutes where not trusted on front lines yet
4. Who says the jump to Earth was 1 day? WTF are you smoking?
5. They already had the Spartan laser and all that. It just wasn't shown or just entered circulation.

[Edited on 09.05.2009 8:26 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2009 8:25 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: Agustus
I don't see YOUR logic. First off you obviously didn't read Contact: Harvest and are basing everything on crap. Or at least read the first and last page and claimed you did read it. The Brutes where the on ACCIDENT.


2. The books don't have brutes on Reach
3. Brutes where not trusted on front lines yet
4. Who says the jump to Earth was 1 day? WTF are you smoking?
5. They already had the Spartan laser and all that. It just wasn't shown or just entered circulation.


It is nice to se another smart person. Thank you for enlightening the people who read this forum.

  • 09.05.2009 8:34 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: Agustus
I don't see YOUR logic. First off you obviously didn't read Contact: Harvest and are basing everything on crap. Or at least read the first and last page and claimed you did read it. The Brutes where the on ACCIDENT.


2. The books don't have brutes on Reach
3. Brutes where not trusted on front lines yet
4. Who says the jump to Earth was 1 day? WTF are you smoking?
5. They already had the Spartan laser and all that. It just wasn't shown or just entered circulation.


It is nice to se another smart person. Thank you for enlightening the people who read this forum.


I base everything on logic (the same one the OP doesn't understand).

See "Why Reach isn't the Legendary planet"

  • 09.05.2009 8:38 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Let me make somethings very clear.

The idea that there were no Brutes on Reach is nothing more than fanon, an assumption that fills in canonical gaps and may very well be false. The minor detail in The Fall of Reach saying that Elites and Hunters were completely unknown until 2552 has been retconned away by both Halo Wars and The Cole Protocol.

I believe that a similar thing is happening to the minor detail in First Strike that Brutes were almost completely unknown until after the Battle of Reach. It is being retconned to the new canon that Brutes were deployed throughout the war, though the Elites were the heavily favored choice. This is implied by many things: the familiarity Marines have with Brutes in Halo 2 and 3, the existence of Brutes in ODST, and the recently released "We Are ODST" trailer showing a Brute foe on a planet that is very likely not Earth.

I have no problem with this retconning, especially since the details were fairly stupid in my opinion.

Furthermore there's no reason that the Spirit of Fire couldn't make it back to the UNSC in time for the Red Team members aboard to die on Reach. They really don't know about the Flood more than the greater UNSC does, they only knew the Flood as an especially fascinating and dangerous lifeform inhabiting a planet that they blew up.

Brief tangent aside my point is I for one would welcome Brutes in Halo Reach, for both campaign and multiplayer. Variety is the spice of life after all, and encounters with Brutes would add even more to the Covenant arsenal (as well as adding more customization options to multiplayer).

  • 09.05.2009 9:26 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: EldritchWarlord
Let me make somethings very clear.

The idea that there were no Brutes on Reach is nothing more than fanon, an assumption that fills in canonical gaps and may very well be false. The minor detail in The Fall of Reach saying that Elites and Hunters were completely unknown until 2552 has been retconned away by both Halo Wars and The Cole Protocol.

I believe that a similar thing is happening to the minor detail in First Strike that Brutes were almost completely unknown until after the Battle of Reach. It is being retconned to the new canon that Brutes were deployed throughout the war, though the Elites were the heavily favored choice. This is implied by many things: the familiarity Marines have with Brutes in Halo 2 and 3, the existence of Brutes in ODST, and the recently released "We Are ODST" trailer showing a Brute foe on a planet that is very likely not Earth.

I have no problem with this retconning, especially since the details were fairly stupid in my opinion.

Furthermore there's no reason that the Spirit of Fire couldn't make it back to the UNSC in time for the Red Team members aboard to die on Reach. They really don't know about the Flood more than the greater UNSC does, they only knew the Flood as an especially fascinating and dangerous lifeform inhabiting a planet that they blew up.

Brief tangent aside my point is I for one would welcome Brutes in Halo Reach, for both campaign and multiplayer. Variety is the spice of life after all, and encounters with Brutes would add even more to the Covenant arsenal (as well as adding more customization options to multiplayer).


1. Brutes where as you said not favored, therefore only sent on unimportant missions. There in ODST because by then they are already rising to power, gaining Truths favor. Or Truth could have always been plotting to remove the Elites eventually because the Brutes where a little easier to fool.

2. The Brutes where not known. Cortana doesn't know of them in First strike because its been more than 2 decades since Harvest. That data may have been forgotten or simply buried because they never encountered brutes again, thinking the field reports may have been inaccurate.

  • 09.05.2009 9:35 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: EldritchWarlord
Let me make somethings very clear.

The idea that there were no Brutes on Reach is nothing more than fanon, an assumption that fills in canonical gaps and may very well be false. The minor detail in The Fall of Reach saying that Elites and Hunters were completely unknown until 2552 has been retconned away by both Halo Wars and The Cole Protocol.

I believe that a similar thing is happening to the minor detail in First Strike that Brutes were almost completely unknown until after the Battle of Reach. It is being retconned to the new canon that Brutes were deployed throughout the war, though the Elites were the heavily favored choice. This is implied by many things: the familiarity Marines have with Brutes in Halo 2 and 3, the existence of Brutes in ODST, and the recently released "We Are ODST" trailer showing a Brute foe on a planet that is very likely not Earth.

I have no problem with this retconning, especially since the details were fairly stupid in my opinion.

Furthermore there's no reason that the Spirit of Fire couldn't make it back to the UNSC in time for the Red Team members aboard to die on Reach. They really don't know about the Flood more than the greater UNSC does, they only knew the Flood as an especially fascinating and dangerous lifeform inhabiting a planet that they blew up.

Brief tangent aside my point is I for one would welcome Brutes in Halo Reach, for both campaign and multiplayer. Variety is the spice of life after all, and encounters with Brutes would add even more to the Covenant arsenal (as well as adding more customization options to multiplayer).


You are absolutely right. I believe the argument that most people like myslef are making is that there is no definitive proof either way that the Brutes will be in the game, and people who take either side are simply speculating. There are large blocks of time in the Halo First Strike in which we don't know what a sertain group of people were doing. Bungie could very well slip in an encounter with Brutes in one of those blocks of time.

The point I have been trying to make is we will not know until Bungie tells us. I personally believe that they most likely will not be in the campaigne, and if they are then I think they will make a small appearence and that would be the only time we see them. The overwhelming majority of the game we will face Elites. Even if the Brutes are not in the game I still think that the Brute weapons will be in the multiplayer.

The more I think about this topic, the more I think the Brutes will be in the game, but they will only appear in one small part of the game where they were on some kind of mission or protecting something and you have to kill them. After that small part they will not make another appearence, but I am speculating when I talk about their roll in the game so I will just have to wait and see.

One part I disagree on is the Spirit of Fire. If it made it back before Reach was destroyed then the UNSC would have known some basic information about the Flood, and it would have known how dangerous the Flood could be. Cortana would have picked up on this information because, as we see in the books, Cortana likes to use her skills to hack into secure UNSC data banks, files, and ONI computers to see what kind of information she can look at. The Flood would have been a major topic of discussion for many top UNSC Officers and the ONI because of it's terrible capability to spread. Cortana would no doubt have stumbled onto information about the Flood when she was hacking into some secure file or computer just for fun. If she had stumbled onto information about the Flood then she would have known what is was when she got to the first Halo with MC.

Plus, the ONI went crazy over the Flood and tried to get all the information they could from MC and Cortana about the Flood because they had never seen it before, and this was after Halo CE. If Spirit of Fire had made it back then ONI would not have gone as crazy over the Flood.

[Edited on 09.05.2009 9:53 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2009 9:42 PM PDT

hey I'm scorch136 im 15 :D i just made this bungie .net profile ,but I'm not new to halo i also love taking screen-shots and forging cool maps so hit me up sometime if you want also another word of info go to the first slot on my file share and listen to what it says plz thx :D!

we will just need to wate and see what bungie does :P

  • 09.05.2009 9:46 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

Some can come away from reading "War and Peace" thinking it a simple adventure story, while others can read the ingredients on a gum wrapper and unlock the secrets of the universe.

Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: EldritchWarlord
Let me make somethings very clear.

The idea that there were no Brutes on Reach is nothing more than fanon, an assumption that fills in canonical gaps and may very well be false. The minor detail in The Fall of Reach saying that Elites and Hunters were completely unknown until 2552 has been retconned away by both Halo Wars and The Cole Protocol.

I believe that a similar thing is happening to the minor detail in First Strike that Brutes were almost completely unknown until after the Battle of Reach. It is being retconned to the new canon that Brutes were deployed throughout the war, though the Elites were the heavily favored choice. This is implied by many things: the familiarity Marines have with Brutes in Halo 2 and 3, the existence of Brutes in ODST, and the recently released "We Are ODST" trailer showing a Brute foe on a planet that is very likely not Earth.

I have no problem with this retconning, especially since the details were fairly stupid in my opinion.

Furthermore there's no reason that the Spirit of Fire couldn't make it back to the UNSC in time for the Red Team members aboard to die on Reach. They really don't know about the Flood more than the greater UNSC does, they only knew the Flood as an especially fascinating and dangerous lifeform inhabiting a planet that they blew up.

Brief tangent aside my point is I for one would welcome Brutes in Halo Reach, for both campaign and multiplayer. Variety is the spice of life after all, and encounters with Brutes would add even more to the Covenant arsenal (as well as adding more customization options to multiplayer).


You are absolutely right. I believe the argument that most people like myslef are making is that there is no definitive proof either way that the Brutes will be in the game, and people who take either side are simply speculating. There are large blocks of time in the Halo First Strike in which we don't know what a sertain group of people were doing. Bungie could very well slip in an encounter with Brutes in one of those blocks of time.

The point I have been trying to make is we will not know until Bungie tells us. I personally believe that they most likely will not be in the campaigne, and if they are then I think they will make a small appearence and that would be the only time we see them. The overwhelming majority of the game we will face Elites. Even if the Brutes are not in the game I still think that the Brute weapons will be in the multiplayer.

The more I think about this topic, the more I think the Brutes will be in the game, but they will only appear in one small part of the game where they were on some kind of mission or protecting something and you have to kill them. After that small part they will not make another appearence, but I am speculating when I talk about their roll in the game so I will just have to wait and see.

One part I disagree on is the Spirit of Fire. If it made it back before Reach was destroyed then the UNSC would have known some basic information about the Flood, and it would have known how dangerous the Flood could be. Cortana would have picked up on this information because, as we see in the books, Cortana likes to use her skills to hack into secure UNSC data banks, files, and ONI computers to see what kind of information she can look at. The Flood would have been a major topic of discussion for many top UNSC Officers and the ONI because of it's terrible capability to spread. Cortana would no doubt have stumbled onto information about the Flood when she was hacking into some secure file or computer just for fun. If she had stumbled onto information about the Flood then she would have known what is was when she got to the first Halo with MC.

Plus, the ONI went crazy over the Flood and tried to get all the information they could from MC and Cortana about the Flood because they had never seen it before, and this was after Halo CE. If Spirit of Fire had made it back then ONI would have gone as crazy over the Flood.


There is a 99.999% chance that Brutes will NOT be part of the main Covenant forces.

  • 09.05.2009 9:53 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Posted by: Agustus

2. The Brutes where not known. Cortana doesn't know of them in First strike because its been more than 2 decades since Harvest. That data may have been forgotten or simply buried because they never encountered brutes again, thinking the field reports may have been inaccurate.


Like I said, retcon (retroactive continuity). Brutes being unknown in First Strike is a minor detail, so minor that ignoring it would not change to plot in the slightest. Among entertainment franchises it is common for writers/designers to retcon away minor bits of canon like that to improve their later productions.

Think about it, would Halo Wars or The Cole Protocol be as good as they were without Elites (which strict adherence to minor points of canon established in The Fall of Reach would demand)?

  • 09.05.2009 9:58 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Elites worried about their positions. The failure on Harvest gave them an excuse to take them outta the front lines. Brutes weren't allowed back until the Great Schism. It wouldn't make sense for them to be on Reach. Do your research.

Um....Mr. Canon Guy? Does it matter? Include the Brutes. Make them more primal and beastly.

Actually, it kind of does. A good portion of the Halo Story would be torn down.

That pretty much happened with Halo Wars already, but it was a damn fine game.


No. Just plain no.

  • 09.05.2009 10:10 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: B0MBking
Ok, talking about timelines is completely irrelevant. Brutes will most likely be in the game for gameplay purposes reguardless of weather they SHOULD be, or not.

It would be a pretty boring game if all you did was fight Elites the whole time.


Halo Combat Evolved is an amazing game, and all you fight are Elites.

  • 09.05.2009 10:13 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Posted by: xAssault12x

One part I disagree on is the Spirit of Fire. If it made it back before Reach was destroyed then the UNSC would have known some basic information about the Flood, and it would have known how dangerous the Flood could be. Cortana would have picked up on this information because, as we see in the books, Cortana likes to use her skills to hack into secure UNSC data banks, files, and ONI computers to see what kind of information she can look at. The Flood would have been a major topic of discussion for many top UNSC Officers and the ONI because of it's terrible capability to spread. Cortana would no doubt have stumbled onto information about the Flood when she was hacking into some secure file or computer just for fun. If she had stumbled onto information about the Flood then she would have known what is was when she got to the first Halo with MC.

Plus, the ONI went crazy over the Flood and tried to get all the information they could from MC and Cortana about the Flood because they had never seen it before, and this was after Halo CE. If Spirit of Fire had made it back then ONI would not have gone as crazy over the Flood.


Actually I believe that Spirit of Fire's perspective of the Flood would warrant little more attention than discovering the fossilized remains of a poisonous tiger. Intriguing but of little use to a clandestine organization trying to fight off a vastly superior alien force bent total genocide. Remember, the Spirit encountered a dangerous life form and subsequently destroyed the planet it was living on. That's all the Flood was to them, not the scourge of life that a galactic empire knowingly destroyed itself simply to contain.

So that's what ONI had. A poisonous tiger fossil. Seeing the Flood again is like finding a poisonous tiger corpse surrounded by dozens of destroyed combat robots on a different planet. Much more concerning.

And besides, we never actually see ONI freak out over this. Just have Dr. Halsey speculate that they would.

Finally, I don't think that even Cortana could readily access ONI Section 0 which is the "so secret that it doesn't exist" branch of ONI that does cover-ups and other black ops. As far as I know anyway, Halopedia holds that they covered up Project ORION (the first Spartan program).

  • 09.05.2009 10:20 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: Seggi31
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Elites worried about their positions. The failure on Harvest gave them an excuse to take them outta the front lines. Brutes weren't allowed back until the Great Schism. It wouldn't make sense for them to be on Reach. Do your research.

Um....Mr. Canon Guy? Does it matter? Include the Brutes. Make them more primal and beastly.

Actually, it kind of does. A good portion of the Halo Story would be torn down.

That pretty much happened with Halo Wars already, but it was a damn fine game.


No. Just plain no.


Ok people. Here we go.

The Brutes were given the simple taks of going to Harvest and collecting the Forerunner Artifacts that were detected. Not only did they screw that up, but they managed to get their butts kicked by the Humans on the planet. The Elites didn't trust the Brutes at all and their failure allowed the Elites to remove the Brutes from the front lines.

Brutes were used in things other then the war with Humanity until around the time Reach was destroyed. By that time Truth was accelerating the promotion of Brutes and giving them more and more responsibility, but they still didn't get to be in postions of power until after Halo CE when an Elite fleet commander couldn't stop Halo from being destroyed. Then the Brutes were allowed to go onto the front lines and Truth began giving them more and more promotions and power.

It wouldn't be that big of a leap by Bungie to say that Brutes were just beging to be able to go onto the front lines and fight with the Elites around the same time that Reach was attacked. This is only a short time before MC and Cortana have their first encounter with Brutes. MC never goes to the surface of Reach accept to save the surviving spartans and others so they could keep the book accurate by having the spartans on the ground fight some Brutes sometime before they go to ONI's Castle facility and get saved by MC and later when they get saved by MC they don't get to tell him about the Brutes because they are busy trying not to die still. So MC has his first encounter with Brutes and the other Spartans just never were able to tell him or Cortana about the Brutes they fought on Reach. It makes sense and it doesn't negate anything in the books.

Halo Wars didn't really go against the books either. If the UNSC only had one record of an encounter with the Brutes and it was at Harvest and then they never saw the Brutes again they would eventually just set the report aside and label it as incorrect or just consider the Brutes an unconfirmed species that they don't need to release data on unless they are reported again.

[Edited on 09.05.2009 10:34 PM PDT]

  • 09.05.2009 10:26 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.


Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Elites worried about their positions. The failure on Harvest gave them an excuse to take them outta the front lines. Brutes weren't allowed back until the Great Schism. It wouldn't make sense for them to be on Reach. Do your research.

Um....Mr. Canon Guy? Does it matter? Include the Brutes. Make them more primal and beastly.

Actually, it kind of does. A good portion of the Halo Story would be torn down.

That pretty much happened with Halo Wars already, but it was a damn fine game.


Aside from having Elites and Hunters in the game Halo Wars' adheres to canon completely. And the one thing that it does violate is the remarkably foolish idea in The Fall of Reach that Hunters and Elites were not seen in battle for 27 years of war. Which basically means that the Covenant would have operated completely without heavy infantry, field commanders, and light artillery. After First Strike the novels stop doing idiot stuff like that, I personally consider small details not critical to the plot from the first three novels as highly suspect.

  • 09.05.2009 10:29 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: xAssault12x

Ok people. Here we go.

The Brutes were given the simple taks of going to Harvest and collecting the Forerunner Artifacts that were detected. Not only did they screw that up, but they managed to get their butts kicked by the Humans on the planet. The Elites didn't trust the Brutes at all and their failure allowed the Elites to remove the Brutes from the front lines.

Brutes were used in things other then the war with Humanity until around the time Reach was destroyed. By that time Truth was accelerating the promotion of Brutes and giving them more and more responsibility, but they still didn't get to be in postions of power until after Halo CE when an Elite fleet commander couldn't stop Halo from being destroyed. Then the Brutes were allowed to go onto the front lines and Truth began giving them more and more promotions and power.

It wouldn't be that big of a leap by Bungie to say that Brutes were just beging to be able to go onto the front lines and fight with the Elites around the same time that Reach was attacked. This is only a short time before MC and Cortana have their first encounter with Brutes. MC never goes to the surface of Reach so they could keep the book accurate by having the spartans on the ground fight some Brutes and later when they meet up with MC they don't get to tell him because they are busy trying not to die still. So MC has his first encounter with Brutes and the other Spartans just never were able to tell him or Cortana about the Brutes they fought on Reach. It makes sense and it doesn't negate anything in the books.


I meant I didn't think Halo Wars was a damn fine game...

  • 09.05.2009 10:34 PM PDT

Resignation is my virtue; like water I ebb, and flow.
Defeat is merely the addition of time to a sentence I never deserved...but you imposed.

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Plasma3150
Halo Wars can be considered canon, because the Brutes were not on the Frontlines, but instead were used to destroy the Flood. Spirit of Fire couldn't tell about the flood because they used their SlipSpace Engine to destroy the Forerunner Shield World.

I believe Spartan group Omega was on Reach (as well as the SoF) so they had to have made it back.


Spartan Group Omega was on Arcadia, not the SoF. Spartan Red Team was on the Spirit.

  • 09.05.2009 10:47 PM PDT