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This topic has moved here: Subject: I dont understand your logic, people.
  • Subject: I dont understand your logic, people.
Subject: I dont understand your logic, people.

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: halobball
I will tell you people why Elites want Brutes on Reach for the fight. These 2 words can say it all. Cannon Fodder!!!


That is what the Elites used Grunts as. The Elites never trusted the Brutes, and they never wanted to fight with them. Elite commanders would rather use Grunts then Brutes. Not until Truth started promoting Brutes did the Elites have to use the Brutes or follow their orders. Given a choice, the Elites would choose grunts over Brutes anyday.

Also, Elites kept themselves seperate from the Brutes until around the time of Halo 2 when Truth had integrated Brutes into the whole Covenant fleet. Before that time the Brutes had their own fleet that they oporated by themselves, and their ships were pieces of crap that the Elites discarded. As we know from the books, Elites ran the invasion of Reach, and an Elite commander or admiral would never use the Brutes, not even as cannon fodder.

  • 10.02.2009 11:25 PM PDT

Steam ID is crunklyomy
I'll play some tf2 or l4d with anyone who feels like it.

You'll have to admit, Bungie is actually horrible with continuity between games (Why do brutes have actual shields in ODST, but not in halo 3?), but i think you're right. just because you didnt see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There were even plans to put the brutes in halo: ce and engineers in halo 2.

  • 10.03.2009 1:17 AM PDT

Been playing Halo since CE

1 Word
Zealots.

  • 10.03.2009 2:07 AM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D

Well said.

Although when it comes to the BR, i wouldnt mind if it wasnt in Reach. I like it but it just makes MP so dull.

And they need to buff up the AR a bit so it dosent become monotonus like it does in Halo 3. Make it like Halo 1 AR.

  • 10.03.2009 3:57 AM PDT

Before the elites split, the brutes were considered "lesser"

  • 10.03.2009 4:00 AM PDT

Posted by: xXDIRTYYHARYXx
You'll have to admit, Bungie is actually horrible with continuity between games (Why do brutes have actual shields in ODST, but not in halo 3?), but i think you're right. just because you didnt see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. There were even plans to put the brutes in halo: ce and engineers in halo 2.
They do have shields in Halo 3, silly.

  • 10.03.2009 5:07 AM PDT

What's up, bro-fist!

Posted by: Jzadek
Wanted to be master of DO NOT WANT, but in latin to show he's clever.


for all those who buyd halo 3 odst special edition including the halo reach beta .
they released informations to the offical start 2010

www.Xbox.com

  • 10.03.2009 5:53 AM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: Rammal94
Well said.

Although when it comes to the BR, i wouldnt mind if it wasnt in Reach. I like it but it just makes MP so dull.

And they need to buff up the AR a bit so it dosent become monotonus like it does in Halo 3. Make it like Halo 1 AR.


This dude read my mind!

  • 10.03.2009 10:52 PM PDT

people just dont like brutes as a whole lol thats why they dont want brutes on reach. just like some BR haters.

  • 10.03.2009 11:01 PM PDT
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Halo Reach would be even better with variety so it would be cool if you can fight both Elites and Brutes.

  • 10.03.2009 11:16 PM PDT

Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Elites worried about their positions. The failure on Harvest gave them an excuse to take them outta the front lines. Brutes weren't allowed back until the Great Schism. It wouldn't make sense for them to be on Reach. Do your research.

Um....Mr. Canon Guy? Does it matter? Include the Brutes. Make them more primal and beastly.

Actually, it kind of does. A good portion of the Halo Story would be torn down.


Um no it wouldn't, as they weren't "not allowed back in until the schism" The only difference was how the majority of the fleets for each prophet was comprised, and it wouldn't be breaking canon to have a race that was around since the beginning to appear in the game. Choppers didn't appear in Halo 1-2, but they were in H3. Having them in Halo CE would not have broken canon.

  • 10.03.2009 11:19 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: MichaelYEAHH
people just dont like brutes as a whole lol thats why they dont want brutes on reach. just like some BR haters.


I think if every Halo fan was asked if they would rather have a game with only Elites or only Brutes, 99.99% would answer Elites.

On the flip side, the overwhelming majority of people want the BR in every game forever. The reason that people love the BR is because it is the answer to everything and it has no weakness when used properly. Only power weapons can beat it. In fact, the BR should be clasified as a power weapon.

People who dislike the BR don't hate the gun, they hate how powerful and usefull it is. Those "haters" want every gun to have a pro and con to it. For example, The shotgun is good up close, but at any range is useless. The pistol is useless unless an enemy has no shield, in that case it can kill in one shot.

The BR is good at every range and can kill in four shots. If you gave someone a BR and another person all other Halo weapons, the BR would win a massive number of those fights.

The BR only get beat by another BR, Sniper at range with the element of surprise or up close no scope(which is unrealistic), carbine in the right hands, shotgun up close, rocket up close, laser in the right hands, a grenade followed by a headshot, or stuck by a grenade. That is 9 out of over 50 possible weapons combination attacks, and "in the right hands" means that the person with the BR is not as good as the person with the other weapon.

If the person with the BR is smart then they should almost never die when faced by the before mentioned weapons, but it is Halo and anything can and will happen. Those who dislike the BR just don't want it to be as strong or as easy to use. They want it weak at range or up close but basicaly just not what it is now.

  • 10.03.2009 11:28 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: WNxkenetic
Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Elites worried about their positions. The failure on Harvest gave them an excuse to take them outta the front lines. Brutes weren't allowed back until the Great Schism. It wouldn't make sense for them to be on Reach. Do your research.

Um....Mr. Canon Guy? Does it matter? Include the Brutes. Make them more primal and beastly.

Actually, it kind of does. A good portion of the Halo Story would be torn down.


Um no it wouldn't, as they weren't "not allowed back in until the schism" The only difference was how the majority of the fleets for each prophet was comprised, and it wouldn't be breaking canon to have a race that was around since the beginning to appear in the game. Choppers didn't appear in Halo 1-2, but they were in H3. Having them in Halo CE would not have broken canon.


It is not about breaking Cannon. If the Brutes were not there then they were not there and people who want them to be ther will have to get over it. Why does Bungie have to bend and edit a good story to add in a crapy enemy?

Just give us new weapons and vehicles that replace the Brute vehicles and weapons and then we don't have to fight a lame enemy and we get all the Halo weapons and the story doesn't have to be edited or altered.

  • 10.03.2009 11:32 PM PDT

Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: Go Vader
Posted by: Plasma3150
Elites worried about their positions. The failure on Harvest gave them an excuse to take them outta the front lines. Brutes weren't allowed back until the Great Schism. It wouldn't make sense for them to be on Reach. Do your research.

Um....Mr. Canon Guy? Does it matter? Include the Brutes. Make them more primal and beastly.

Actually, it kind of does. A good portion of the Halo Story would be torn down.


Um no it wouldn't, as they weren't "not allowed back in until the schism" The only difference was how the majority of the fleets for each prophet was comprised, and it wouldn't be breaking canon to have a race that was around since the beginning to appear in the game. Choppers didn't appear in Halo 1-2, but they were in H3. Having them in Halo CE would not have broken canon.


It is not about breaking Cannon. If the Brutes were not there then they were not there and people who want them to be ther will have to get over it. Why does Bungie have to bend and edit a good story to add in a crapy enemy?

Just give us new weapons and vehicles that replace the Brute vehicles and weapons and then we don't have to fight a lame enemy and we get all the Halo weapons and the story doesn't have to be edited or altered.


I don't understand why people believe the story is being "bent" in any way. The brutes have existed in the Halo universe since day one, There's no alteration in story if they add an enemy already in existence to an area where it wasn't mentioned. Hell for all we know drones where in Halo CE, but we just never saw them. The fact of the matter is that the story is perfectly fine with NO changes whatsoever if Brutes are added.

  • 10.03.2009 11:35 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: WNxkenetic
I don't understand why people believe the story is being "bent" in any way. The brutes have existed in the Halo universe since day one, There's no alteration in story if they add an enemy already in existence to an area where it wasn't mentioned. Hell for all we know drones where in Halo CE, but we just never saw them. The fact of the matter is that the story is perfectly fine with NO changes whatsoever if Brutes are added.


The Elites were in charge of the attack on Reach. Elites hated Brutes and didn't trust them with anything at all. That is set in stone FACT. The Elites would never use the Brutes at Reach. It was not until after the First Halo was destroyed that the Brutes got to go to the front lines and take command of powerful Covenant ships. Before that the Brutes had a small fleet of old piece of crap ships that the Elites discarded because they were too old.

The Brutes were there all along but they were not involved in the battle at Reach. That is why we don't want to see them. They weren't at Reach in the books so they shouldn't be there now.

  • 10.03.2009 11:49 PM PDT

Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
I don't understand why people believe the story is being "bent" in any way. The brutes have existed in the Halo universe since day one, There's no alteration in story if they add an enemy already in existence to an area where it wasn't mentioned. Hell for all we know drones where in Halo CE, but we just never saw them. The fact of the matter is that the story is perfectly fine with NO changes whatsoever if Brutes are added.


The Elites were in charge of the attack on Reach. Elites hated Brutes and didn't trust them with anything at all. That is set in stone FACT. The Elites would never use the Brutes at Reach. It was not until after the First Halo was destroyed that the Brutes got to go to the front lines and take command of powerful Covenant ships. Before that the Brutes had a small fleet of old piece of crap ships that the Elites discarded because they were too old.

The Brutes were there all along but they were not involved in the battle at Reach. That is why we don't want to see them. They weren't at Reach in the books so they shouldn't be there now.


Who is this "we"? Also, engineers were in none of the games, though they were in the books. As well as the Super Flood(Cant remember the name) in Halo 2. It's logical fallacy to believe that if something isn't mentioned it's an impossibility to exist.

  • 10.03.2009 11:51 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: WNxkenetic
Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
I don't understand why people believe the story is being "bent" in any way. The brutes have existed in the Halo universe since day one, There's no alteration in story if they add an enemy already in existence to an area where it wasn't mentioned. Hell for all we know drones where in Halo CE, but we just never saw them. The fact of the matter is that the story is perfectly fine with NO changes whatsoever if Brutes are added.


The Elites were in charge of the attack on Reach. Elites hated Brutes and didn't trust them with anything at all. That is set in stone FACT. The Elites would never use the Brutes at Reach. It was not until after the First Halo was destroyed that the Brutes got to go to the front lines and take command of powerful Covenant ships. Before that the Brutes had a small fleet of old piece of crap ships that the Elites discarded because they were too old.

The Brutes were there all along but they were not involved in the battle at Reach. That is why we don't want to see them. They weren't at Reach in the books so they shouldn't be there now.


Who is this "we"? Also, engineers were in none of the games, though they were in the books. As well as the Super Flood(Cant remember the name) in Halo 2. It's logical fallacy to believe that if something isn't mentioned it's an impossibility to exist.


I'm NOT saying they didn't exist. They were just NEVER in the battle. To just add them in would be to ignore everything we know about the Elites and how they act. If Brutes are thrown into the battle at Reach then that implies that the Elite in charge wanted to use them. That would NEVER happen. Elites didn't use Brutes for anything because they Hated the Brutes. That is in the books.

We didn't see engineers because Bungie never had the time or budget or desire to use them until now. What point would a floating thing that carries no weapons and does no harm have in a game.

Enter Halo 3 ODST. The Brutes control the Covenant army, and because they are dumb, they decide to put bombs on all their engineers and use them as mines so that when they all blow up they have nothing to fix their equipment.

The so called "Super Flood thing" was the Gravemind.

[Edited on 10.04.2009 12:05 AM PDT]

  • 10.04.2009 12:01 AM PDT

Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
I don't understand why people believe the story is being "bent" in any way. The brutes have existed in the Halo universe since day one, There's no alteration in story if they add an enemy already in existence to an area where it wasn't mentioned. Hell for all we know drones where in Halo CE, but we just never saw them. The fact of the matter is that the story is perfectly fine with NO changes whatsoever if Brutes are added.


The Elites were in charge of the attack on Reach. Elites hated Brutes and didn't trust them with anything at all. That is set in stone FACT. The Elites would never use the Brutes at Reach. It was not until after the First Halo was destroyed that the Brutes got to go to the front lines and take command of powerful Covenant ships. Before that the Brutes had a small fleet of old piece of crap ships that the Elites discarded because they were too old.

The Brutes were there all along but they were not involved in the battle at Reach. That is why we don't want to see them. They weren't at Reach in the books so they shouldn't be there now.


Who is this "we"? Also, engineers were in none of the games, though they were in the books. As well as the Super Flood(Cant remember the name) in Halo 2. It's logical fallacy to believe that if something isn't mentioned it's an impossibility to exist.


I'm NOT saying they didn't exist. They were just NEVER in the battle. To just add them in would be to ignore everything we know about the Elites and how they act. If Brutes are thrown into the battle at Reach then that implies that the Elite in charge wanted to use them. That would NEVER happen. Elites didn't use Brutes for anything because they Hated the Brutes. That is in the books.

We didn't see engineers because Bungie never had the time or budget or desire to use them until now. What point would a floating thing that carries no weapons and does no harm have in a game.

Enter Halo 3 ODST. The Brutes control the Covenant army, and because they are dumb, they decide to put bombs on all their engineers and use them as mines so that when they all blow up they have nothing to fix their equipment.

The so called "Super Flood thing" was the Gravemind.


No not the gravemind, its name was the Juggernaut Also, let us take a real world example of how your logic is a fallacy. Society. Society is the biggest proof against your argument. You hate someone, you don't kill them, you tolerate them. You may hate mexicans, or black people, or white people, it doesn't matter, you will still employ them. The thing is, if it wasn't specifically stated that there were absolutely NO BRUTES WHATSOEVER on Reach, then it's still in the realm of probability.

Also, Halo CE and Reach were created before brutes were created, as well as many of the concept vehicles in Halo 2. Phantoms were never even alluded to in Halo CE, Reach, or The Flood, in yet in First Strike, I believe they pilot a phantom(perhaps a spirit, Im a bit iffy on the details)

  • 10.04.2009 12:15 AM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: WNxkenetic
Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: WNxkenetic
I don't understand why people believe the story is being "bent" in any way. The brutes have existed in the Halo universe since day one, There's no alteration in story if they add an enemy already in existence to an area where it wasn't mentioned. Hell for all we know drones where in Halo CE, but we just never saw them. The fact of the matter is that the story is perfectly fine with NO changes whatsoever if Brutes are added.


The Elites were in charge of the attack on Reach. Elites hated Brutes and didn't trust them with anything at all. That is set in stone FACT. The Elites would never use the Brutes at Reach. It was not until after the First Halo was destroyed that the Brutes got to go to the front lines and take command of powerful Covenant ships. Before that the Brutes had a small fleet of old piece of crap ships that the Elites discarded because they were too old.

The Brutes were there all along but they were not involved in the battle at Reach. That is why we don't want to see them. They weren't at Reach in the books so they shouldn't be there now.


Who is this "we"? Also, engineers were in none of the games, though they were in the books. As well as the Super Flood(Cant remember the name) in Halo 2. It's logical fallacy to believe that if something isn't mentioned it's an impossibility to exist.


I'm NOT saying they didn't exist. They were just NEVER in the battle. To just add them in would be to ignore everything we know about the Elites and how they act. If Brutes are thrown into the battle at Reach then that implies that the Elite in charge wanted to use them. That would NEVER happen. Elites didn't use Brutes for anything because they Hated the Brutes. That is in the books.

We didn't see engineers because Bungie never had the time or budget or desire to use them until now. What point would a floating thing that carries no weapons and does no harm have in a game.

Enter Halo 3 ODST. The Brutes control the Covenant army, and because they are dumb, they decide to put bombs on all their engineers and use them as mines so that when they all blow up they have nothing to fix their equipment.

The so called "Super Flood thing" was the Gravemind.


No not the gravemind, its name was the Juggernaut Also, let us take a real world example of how your logic is a fallacy. Society. Society is the biggest proof against your argument. You hate someone, you don't kill them, you tolerate them. You may hate mexicans, or black people, or white people, it doesn't matter, you will still employ them. The thing is, if it wasn't specifically stated that there were absolutely NO BRUTES WHATSOEVER on Reach, then it's still in the realm of probability.

Also, Halo CE and Reach were created before brutes were created, as well as many of the concept vehicles in Halo 2. Phantoms were never even alluded to in Halo CE, Reach, or The Flood, in yet in First Strike, I believe they pilot a phantom(perhaps a spirit, Im a bit iffy on the details)


I thought you were refering to the Gravemind.

You use Human society as your example but we are not talking about humans. We are talking about the Covenant. From every piece of information we have, the Elites hated the Brutes and never used them or even let them serve on their ships until after Halo CE. That is how the official story goes. Bungie was able to introduce the Brutes and say that they were around since the begining but we never saw them because they were never used by the Elites. The Elites ran the war against Humanity. They never used Brutes or let Brutes even fight witht them. That is FACT.

Stop using fancy words like logic and fallacy. I have fact that is in official Halo cannon. The Elites were in charge of the battle of Reach and they would never use Brutes because they hate them. Remember, we are talking about Elites in the Covenant. Their society is NOTHING like ours. Let me show you the "FALLACY" in your "LOGIC." You compaired Covenant society to Human society. They ar NOTHING alike.

Elites NEVER used or served with Brutes until Truth intigrated them into the Covenant fleet after Halo CE. We see that around the time of Halo 2 the Elites are talking about how the Brutes are getting promoted very rapidly and it concerns them. That meens that the Brutes were low level nobodies until Truth started putting them in charge around the time Halo Ce ends and all the way to the Covenant civil war.

  • 10.04.2009 10:38 AM PDT

Beware the smiley face! =D

Posted by: xAssault12x
Posted by: Rammal94
Well said.

Although when it comes to the BR, i wouldnt mind if it wasnt in Reach. I like it but it just makes MP so dull.

And they need to buff up the AR a bit so it dosent become monotonus like it does in Halo 3. Make it like Halo 1 AR.


This dude read my mind!


Exaccccctly.

Unusual, I disagree with you on a lot of topics. Meh.

  • 10.13.2009 2:26 PM PDT
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Posted by: Go Vader
Yeah. Instead of limiting the number of enemies, increase it. Add the Brutes and maybe even some cut enemies. I'd love to see the Drinol in this game. Doberman Gator anyone?


Yes, yes, YES!

We're talkin' Reach here, which from what I hear was pretty much the entire(or a considerable fraction of) The Covenant. After all, if Reach was this great tragedy, why not make it a wholesome mass slaughter from start to finish?

  • 10.13.2009 9:34 PM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: Go Vader
Yeah. Instead of limiting the number of enemies, increase it. Add the Brutes and maybe even some cut enemies. I'd love to see the Drinol in this game. Doberman Gator anyone?

No, Blind Wolf!

Or the dinosaurs...

  • 10.13.2009 9:36 PM PDT

Thank you for posting what I have been thinking for a long time.

  • 10.13.2009 10:07 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

The Brutes played a security role after the events of Contact Harvest up untill the events of Halo 2. The Battle of Reach was a fullscale invasion so there was no need for Brutes to be present there.

[Edited on 10.13.2009 10:19 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 10:19 PM PDT