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Subject: What we think and want doesn't matter

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  • 09.09.2009 2:31 PM PDT

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Bungie have shown us, many times before, that what we think and want does matter.

Why do you think every AR start gametype in Halo 3 Matchmaking now has a Magnum secondary? Because there was a very popular thread about it in the Forums here that showed overwhelming support for it.

  • 09.09.2009 2:34 PM PDT
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do you think before you type; seriously bungie has catered to alot of ppl, and show me another game developer that would ever think about catering to their audience

  • 09.09.2009 2:41 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: RELLIK PIR
Well then. If they are listening. Last I checked less than 5k people are in each of the social playlists excluding slayer. So why not change all those playlist to some new playlists that consist of REAL social games that everyone could play social playlists again. Since the loss of Rocket race I only play a couple of the Double exp playlist. I know that is true for thousands of gamers. All the current social playlists are is dumbed down versions of ranked playlists not unique in any way.
Well then, what do you consider REAL playlists? Big Team is my favorite social playlist, and it is original compared to other ranked playlists. And before you say Squad battle, big team social existed before squad battle. social playlists are just that. social playlists. Players can be competitive in these playlists, but most people aren't and shouldn't have their playlist changed to suit the needs of the more competitive players.

  • 09.09.2009 3:34 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

If Bungie doesn't play test then what is a beta? What is all that time they spend playing each new build of the games they make? The fact that one of your gripes is that Bungie is ignoring an MLG patch request removes a lot of your credibility in my eyes. Bungie has done far too much already to make the game how MLG prefers it, and it has hurt much of the rest of the playlists.

In regards to game quality, that's entirely subjective so i'm not gonna tell you your wrong, it's your opinion after all. But one thing you need to consider is that ever sequal thus far addressed something that there was large amounts of feedback for in a previous title. If anything I would say Bungies biggest weakness is that they cater to people too much, but that's just my opinion.

Your entitled to like and hate on whatever you wish, but at least have a proper outlook before doing so, to ensure your loving or hating for the right reasons. No game, once again, no game makes it to final copy without some bugs. Some person somewhere will do nothing other than devote themselves to finding it and if possible exploiting it. Welcome to internet gaming.

  • 09.09.2009 3:48 PM PDT
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[SuSCo]

Posted by: Loaja343
Bungie have shown us, many times before, that what we think and want does matter.

Why do you think every AR start gametype in Halo 3 Matchmaking now has a Magnum secondary? Because there was a very popular thread about it in the Forums here that showed overwhelming support for it.


Thats not what he is talking about. He is talking about how the game works (the game engine, net coding, and game design. And game design being how the weapons and everything else work).

Most casual gamers do not see it in Halo 3, but Halo 3 is a very terrible game to play online and it has MANY, if not HUNDREDS of flaws i could list if i had time (some even occurring on LAN which is so very sad). Cool, Bungie put a cute little pistol as a secondary in Slayer for AR gametypes. But did that game come packaged that way? No. He's trying to say that Bungie should get things right and make sure they're right before the game is released, and saying that Bungie should listen to what we want in the game before they even start devoloping the game. Bungie does a poor job of this. This forum has been out for how long? And if the OP is true, Bungie has been making reach for 2 YEARS. Sad if you ask me.

Thank you for making this thread Rellik. I like your posts on MLGPro.com also =)

  • 09.09.2009 3:54 PM PDT
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[SuSCo]

Posted by: SweetTRIX
If Bungie doesn't play test then what is a beta? What is all that time they spend playing each new build of the games they make? The fact that one of your gripes is that Bungie is ignoring an MLG patch request removes a lot of your credibility in my eyes. Bungie has done far too much already to make the game how MLG prefers it, and it has hurt much of the rest of the playlists.

In regards to game quality, that's entirely subjective so i'm not gonna tell you your wrong, it's your opinion after all. But one thing you need to consider is that ever sequal thus far addressed something that there was large amounts of feedback for in a previous title. If anything I would say Bungies biggest weakness is that they cater to people too much, but that's just my opinion.

Your entitled to like and hate on whatever you wish, but at least have a proper outlook before doing so, to ensure your loving or hating for the right reasons. No game, once again, no game makes it to final copy without some bugs. Some person somewhere will do nothing other than devote themselves to finding it and if possible exploiting it. Welcome to internet gaming.


You have it all wrong. Just because a patch was requested on MLGPro.com doesnt mean that it will only suit us competitive players. It actually has a lot of things wanted patched in there that help the majority of the fanbase, too. It would just help make MLG settings and gametypes that much more enjoyable, and whats wrong with enjoying something? Too bad we can only enjoy something up to a certain point because Halo 3 has so many flaws *sigh*

And BTW, Removing Team Objective has now led to AN OUTSTANDING AMOUNT of cheaters in our MLG playlist. Now that they dont have a 50 in objective and MLG is too hard to get it in legit because of such elite competitive players, they have to Stand-bye, Host boot, and IP Flood others just to gain experience and level up. So dont think MLG hurts other playlists when all it is is better people playing against better people. It also helps because it gets rid of us start whoring in your little fun playlists ;) which would mean you getting destroyed. Please dont take offense to that either, im just trying to make a point.

Oh this game on LAN is terrible too compared to how a Halo should play. Thats referring to you saying welcome to online gaming.

We've probably been playing online for longer than you too.

[Edited on 09.09.2009 4:01 PM PDT]

  • 09.09.2009 3:59 PM PDT

Halo Reach and Halo 3 odst startet out as requests from fans. and Heratic? the midship remake? Bungie even stated that it was because fans were asking for it...

  • 09.09.2009 4:03 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: SuSCo tK
Posted by: SweetTRIX
If Bungie doesn't play test then what is a beta? What is all that time they spend playing each new build of the games they make? The fact that one of your gripes is that Bungie is ignoring an MLG patch request removes a lot of your credibility in my eyes. Bungie has done far too much already to make the game how MLG prefers it, and it has hurt much of the rest of the playlists.

In regards to game quality, that's entirely subjective so i'm not gonna tell you your wrong, it's your opinion after all. But one thing you need to consider is that ever sequal thus far addressed something that there was large amounts of feedback for in a previous title. If anything I would say Bungies biggest weakness is that they cater to people too much, but that's just my opinion.

Your entitled to like and hate on whatever you wish, but at least have a proper outlook before doing so, to ensure your loving or hating for the right reasons. No game, once again, no game makes it to final copy without some bugs. Some person somewhere will do nothing other than devote themselves to finding it and if possible exploiting it. Welcome to internet gaming.


You have it all wrong. Just because a patch was requested on MLGPro.com doesnt mean that it will only suit us competitive players. It actually has a lot of things wanted patched in there that help the majority of the fanbase, too. It would just help make MLG settings and gametypes that much more enjoyable, and whats wrong with enjoying something? Too bad we can only enjoy something up to a certain point because Halo 3 has so many flaws *sigh*

And BTW, Removing Team Objective has now led to AN OUTSTANDING AMOUNT of cheaters in our MLG playlist. Now that they dont have a 50 in objective and MLG is too hard to get it in legit because of such elite competitive players, they have to Stand-bye, Host boot, and IP Flood others just to gain experience and level up. So dont think MLG hurts other playlists when all it is is better people playing against better people. It also helps because it gets rid of us start whoring in your little fun playlists ;) which would mean you getting destroyed. Please dont take offense to that either, im just trying to make a point.

Oh this game on LAN is terrible too compared to how a Halo should play. Thats referring to you saying welcome to online gaming.

We've probably been playing online for longer than you too.


I must attract people that don't read my posts before responding, oh well. I didn't say Bungie released flawless games, and I didn't say the playlist changes were justified. I merely pointed out to the OP that Bungie does test their games in house, and yes, I took a jab at MLG requests because i've only ever come accross 2 people that play MLG competitively and think about more than just making the game good for them. So I apologize for any misunderstanding in that sense. The comment about online gaming was in regards to people looking for hacks and bugs no matter how well a title is ironed out before release. That crap is then later used online and emulated. I didn't say Halo3's issues were only online related.

I consistently protested the removal of objective, as it was my favorite thing to play. But the community decided (which is my biggest frustration with Bungie) based on numbers. Most appear to favor the simplicity of slayer and as such other play lists get ignored. I'm quite sure there has been fallout as a result, but the cheating is nothing new to any playlist, that has been a Halo problem since Halo2. Your little point about the MLG playlists is funny though. The MLG playlist has had a pretty large impact on the others due to the push for the BR. Whether that be good or bad is up to the player you ask, but it had an effect none-the-less. Your comments about MLG being the haven for better players (so you don't destroy me, lol) was pretty laughable. I rather enjoyed the MLG playlist when I played it, and didn't find it any harder (go figure) but if you look at my game history you'd see I haven't played anything in awhile.

Also, even though it is really not important, I have been gaming since 88' and playing online since the first Rainbow Six for PC. Online gaming is nothing new to me, nor is LAN play. You should really keep your responses to the subject and not make personal assumptions about the people you try to correct, it prevents them from taking you seriously.

  • 09.09.2009 4:14 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: RELLIK PIR
88.... Hahah that is when I was born you must be in your 30s. The you didn't read my post is just BLATANT statement that you are ARROGANT.


25, I started early, anyway my statement of people not reading my post was tailor made for the person that I quoted, considering your firebacks here it is really funny that you are calling me arrogant.

The fact that you only met Quote MLG players that only think about MLG mean you don't know anybody. Like most people in your level range I doubt your friends list gets more than 5 people online a night. IE casual means your don't get to know many people that are active. I personally know hundreds of people on and off my friends list that I see in MM all the time when I play it a lot. I know more than 2 MLG players in RL that just want to have fun and competition is fun but they love other forms of fun to. Competition is just the core of a man so most of them have that as their primary playstyle.

Funny how all these exalted members are below a certain rank. Which at a much higher rate means that they lack the ability to understand this game. The better you understand a game the better you are at it. There are exceptions to this rule. I know some people that can't get jack for rank that understand this game better than I. I know some people quite good that don't know jack.


After all of that you call me arrogant? You make a lot of assumptions here, there are a miriad of reasons for why I may not have a high rank as well as why I do not play much these days. Point in fact, my understanding of how this game works is one of the biggests reasons as to why I do not play XBL matches of Halo3 anymore. In regard to my comments on MLG players, I clearly explained why I made the comment I did. Most of the "MLG reps" that I refer to I have met here, and I hate to break it to you but few of them have more to say then "MLG is best, you don't like it cause you suck". Thank you for grouping yourself with the people that don't read my posts before firing back.

It was a community patch request. We don't ban people from MLGpro.com because they like the AR. So anyone can make make an addition to that thread. It is simply implied that your opinion isn't popular. This is B.net. Where all this stuff should be in open debate but there is a BR only thread. Basically a place we can force them all to go to ignore them.

Fair enough, I never once stated that I knew what the request was. I even explained why I made the remark I made. I'm sure the patch had several legit concerns, but that doesn't take away from the fact that your first post outlined complaints that weren't completely accurate.

Every sequal has changed this game and added options not addressed problems. Get you facts strait. HCE the community just wanted Online and More stuff. weapons customs options and a update on graphics. I like being able to jump.. Ow ya they did that so that makes 1 thing they did. They took away race and still didn't bring it back in H3.
We had to improvise outside their design.

H2-H3 They added Forge and theater. cheating is just harder but still unstoppable do to their lack of action. The 360 stops MODing not H3. Forge was a great idea but they lack the intelligence to take it to its limits to give us the best experience. Theater is glitchy and has a lot of dumb restrictions. So they added poorly developed additions. They did not address the problem with the AR/SMG vs BR problem with H2 which is a basic game play problem but they don't have real gamers play test so how could they address game play problems.


I don't doubt the balance issues and bugginess of the net-coding for Halo 3, but after re-reading all of my posts I see no point where I said that they have made improvements with each title, I said that Bungie has addressed something that there were large amounts of feedback for. Considering that they cater to the majority it is no surprise that the less popular, more specialized playlists get axed, such as race. I personally didn't enjoy it because it was hard to get people to take it seriously (just like Rocket Race), but I don't doubt there was an auidience for it.

It is very easy to complain about a game (from anyone) and what "should" be done to "fix" things, but when a person has a little understanding of the "why" behind something, or the "how" that would be involved to fix it. While some fixes should be possible, there are several that can only be addressed in the next iteration of the game. Unless you have read all the posts on the Halo CE boards from 8 years ago, I doubt you are aware of what the HCE community wanted with Halo2. Considering that the game you are complaining about in the here and now is a two-year old title, and the next new title isn't due out for another year, it's a little redundant to keep griping about something that they have been aware of since Halo3 went live.

Limitations set be dev cycles and hardware restrictions and the fact that they may just not want to give everyone total leeway (your Forge complaint), is something that is often ignored by people like you. Were mistakes made, absolutely, were they a result of a bloated developer getting comfortable? No, not with the prevailent issues present. Your personal thoughts as to what should have been caught up front make you look more arrogant than anything I have said here. They should learn from their mistakes, yes, but there is no way you can establsih all possible issues, gameplay, internet related, etc, etc, until the public is unleashed to screw with it.

Any one persons opinion about how the game is good or bad isn't more valid than another, my whole point in my first post is that you need to be a little more accurate in your compliants, which you weren't being in your first post.

  • 09.10.2009 9:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: RELLIK PIR

That is the way they want it since it is their game. You the guy that pays for the game don't get a say.


Yeah, that's how most game companies function. Do you get a say in what other games are like before they are released? Why you're pinning this on bungie alone is ridiculous.


Then again their updates never seem up to par. They had 2 tries at giving us a big flat empty box. And failed 2 times.


Isn't the crypt a big flat empty box? I don't understand what's wrong with the crypt or sandbox or the sky bubble. There have been many good maps made from those, including many from the forgers in the MLG forum that are really nicely made.


Reach. I have no clue. we know jack -blam!- about this game so I will save judgment till after the games release and it gets some real play testing. Since bungie never does that before launch. They do Bug testing. Not play testing. Big difference.


Do you have any proof of them not playtesting anything? It's a pretty big/broad thing to say without anything to back it up with. And no, complaining about certain things you don't like isn't proof.


On MLGpro.com we have a patch request thread. Guess what the list is huge and many are real problems for all yet bungie ignores all of them. Just like they did when the game launched.


Well, since no updates are really being made to the game itself, title updates, why would you expect anything you don't like to be fixed? There are 3 games, that we know of, that bungie is working on right now. They still spend a good deal of time working with halo 3, why you think they would use resources that could be doing more important things to make another title update is beyond me.

  • 09.10.2009 10:13 PM PDT

This took me forever to read, so I'm just going to address his first post with a simple sentence.

Bungie has a reason.

You are not behind the scenes at bungie, you do not know what was required for the game, all anyone can see is their own perspective, which you quite clearly stated.

In between your real numbers, you put your opinion in. IE

"Midship is the best Halo map."

That alone is bad.

You are right about Reach, we know absolutely nothing about it, I think they're using this thread for ideas in feact on editing it.

Do you really think they've told us everything about how they bug and play tested/test the games?





[Edited on 09.10.2009 10:27 PM PDT]

  • 09.10.2009 10:25 PM PDT