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Subject: Do you belive that Spartan-II class 2s exist?

Get Some!!

people, don't argue over a video game that we know NOTHING about. you cant convince someone of anything with NO evidence. Until Bungie comes out and says something about this game, we are all just saying what we hope will be in this game.

  • 09.10.2009 5:58 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: ShadowScythe159
Possibility? I agree.

Thats all I really want to hear people say!

  • 09.10.2009 5:59 PM PDT

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Posted by: ridgegolf55
people, don't argue over a video game that we know NOTHING about. you cant convince someone of anything with NO evidence. Until Bungie comes out and says something about this game, we are all just saying what we hope will be in this game.

Y'know what would be sad? The Name Halo:Reach was just a ploy.

  • 09.10.2009 5:59 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: ShadowScythe159
Posted by: ridgegolf55
people, don't argue over a video game that we know NOTHING about. you cant convince someone of anything with NO evidence. Until Bungie comes out and says something about this game, we are all just saying what we hope will be in this game.

Y'know what would be sad? The Name Halo:Reach was just a ploy.

And instead it's actually Halo: Onyx! Dun Dun DUN...

  • 09.10.2009 6:03 PM PDT

http://achievementgen.info/view.php?ach=22555

Posted by: magog_rules
Posted by: ShadowScythe159
Posted by: ridgegolf55
people, don't argue over a video game that we know NOTHING about. you cant convince someone of anything with NO evidence. Until Bungie comes out and says something about this game, we are all just saying what we hope will be in this game.

Y'know what would be sad? The Name Halo:Reach was just a ploy.

And instead it's actually Halo: Onyx! Dun Dun DUN...

>.> Knowing Bungie that COULD happen...
But seriously...I think they came out with Reach for a reason. They didn't have any fun with the community first like the other 3.

  • 09.10.2009 6:05 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Anyways, alot of people out there believe that the 5 people in the Banner are Spartan II class II's, but in reality, they don't exist. The class II's were a cancelled project.


After the graduation of the first class of SPARTAN-IIs in 2525, Dr. Halsey began planning for the next wave of Spartans; her efforts, however, ran into problems. There were too few candidates that were in sync with her age restriction protocol and a majority of her funding was going towards MJOLNIR maintenance and construction; leaving little room for continued training efforts. By 2531, the majority of her funds had been diverted and she was forced to postpone the effort indefinitely.


This means that Halsey never got around to finishing the class II's, and Mendez was later called to Ackersons "Spartan III" project.

Spartan III's cost much less the Spartan II's, could be trained faster, and didn't use the costly MJOLNIR armor. These Spartan IIIs could be "produced" in bulk, since they didn't go through as many risky genetic augmentation processes. Since Halsey wasn't on board with this project, they are not class II's.

While we are on the Spartan III subject, I'm going to point out why it is impossible for Spartan IIIs to be a part of this game.

Reach was invaded August 30th, 2552.

All of Alpha company was killed in 2537
All of Beta Company was killed in 2545, except for Tom and Lucy, who went on to train Gamma.
Gamma company didn't receive orders to move off of Oynx until October 2552, After Reach had fell. And Even if Some of Gamma was at Reach (no clue how they would of gotten there) they have different call signs, such as "Ash - G099"


Enough with the Spartan III's.


Now, some people will say, "What about Nicole-458, she was a Class II" The Truth behind that is, Nicole is a non-canon character made up by Bungie to be put in Team Ninjas Dead or Alive 4. Team Ninja originally request Master Chief, but Bungie instead gave them Nicole.

However, the most controversial thing of all, is I love Bees.

In October 2004, Joe was asked if ILB is canon, he replied:
Joe Staten:
"The Bees would not make the cut. Those guys basically did their own thing with very little Bungie input (save for massaging and approving the initial plot-treatment). While we helped define the boundaries of their fiction, we let them do what they thought best. And I think the game turned out great."


However, In July 2006 Frank O Conner stated:
Frankie:
"We're going to have this huge collection of canon and things that we embrace as canon, like I Love Bees and stuff like that."


Yet, that same year, Joe Staten said:
Joe Staten:
We're in the process of figuring out what was canon and what was not, and ILB was part of that neutrality.


I love Bees hasn't been mentioned since then, so I believe it's safe to say that it is NOT canon, especially since it directly violates other canon, such as the time in which characters Shaw and Fujikawa were supposed to have been alive.


Now, that still leaves the question, "What about the higher number spartans, such as "259" and "320"

Now it is very true that we haven't seen a Spartan II with a call sign this high, but that doesn't mean there isn't anyway. MLG Cheewawa was right when he said that the Human controlled planets at that time meant that there was trillions of Humans and children to scan, it's possible that more than 320 children were scanned possible induction, then it was narrowed too 150, then 75.

Hell, it's possible that these "Higher Numbered" spartans were in our face the entire time.

Spartans such as James, Mike, and Cassandra have played large roles in the novels, and Halo canon, and they've never had their numbers stated. Plus, there is still 11 unnamed spartans who's numbers could be higher than 150.



Hopefully, this cleared some things up for you, and you know now why It is possible that these Spartans are part of the original group of spartans, and Not class II's, or spartan III's.[/b]

  • 09.10.2009 6:05 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!

  • 09.10.2009 6:07 PM PDT

http://achievementgen.info/view.php?ach=22555

All I have to say is,You never know what ONI could be cooking up.

  • 09.10.2009 6:09 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: magog_rules
You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!


Believe what you want, but the facts are all there.

  • 09.10.2009 6:10 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!


Believe what you want, but the facts are all there.

The facts don't exist on either side unless Bungie SPECIFICALLY says "There are no Spartan-II class 2s".

  • 09.10.2009 6:12 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: magog_rules
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!


Believe what you want, but the facts are all there.

The facts don't exist on either side unless Bungie SPECIFICALLY says "There are no Spartan-II class 2s".


They already said ILB isn't canon. That's the only place where class II's were mentioned.

  • 09.10.2009 6:13 PM PDT

http://achievementgen.info/view.php?ach=22555

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!


Believe what you want, but the facts are all there.

The facts don't exist on either side unless Bungie SPECIFICALLY says "There are no Spartan-II class 2s".


They already said ILB isn't canon. That's the only place where class II's were mentioned.

I think your thinking about Spartan 2.2's or .1'a I forgot.

  • 09.10.2009 6:15 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!


Believe what you want, but the facts are all there.

The facts don't exist on either side unless Bungie SPECIFICALLY says "There are no Spartan-II class 2s".

They already said ILB isn't canon. That's the only place where class II's were mentioned.

That's the only place they're stated as class 2s. There is =still the POSSIBILLITY that Sierra 259, and 320 are class 2s. That is a fact.

  • 09.10.2009 6:15 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: magog_rules
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: magog_rules
You can say what you want. You will NEVER in a Quadrillion years convince me that they don't exist. NEVER!


Believe what you want, but the facts are all there.

The facts don't exist on either side unless Bungie SPECIFICALLY says "There are no Spartan-II class 2s".

They already said ILB isn't canon. That's the only place where class II's were mentioned.

That's the only place they're stated as class 2s. There is =still the POSSIBILLITY that Sierra 259, and 320 are class 2s. That is a fact.


That's an assumption, not a fact.

Also, Sierra has been used in the Halo Universe, and NOT just referring to spartans.

EX: http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Combat_Team_Sierra

Marines.

  • 09.10.2009 6:23 PM PDT
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The question of Spartan-II class 2s is one central to the development of Halo: Reach. Remember, as far as we know, from the books, Dr. Halsey was not given funding, and she was forced to postpone the development of Spartan-II class 2. But, indefinite postponement is not cancellation 'technically.' So, there exists a legal loophole in which Bungie can stick a second class of Spartans.

The question then exists, will Bungie engage in the required 'retconning' to add a new group of Spartans? That only depends on what the new group of Spartans will bring to the Fall of Reach story. If, by adding a previously unknown batch of Spartans, to the Fall of Reach story, Bungie can make a better game, then Bungie will do it.

How can a new class of Spartans give Bungie a better game? Easily, with a new group of Spartans, Bungie won't have to follow the book Fall of Reach, but Bungie also won't have to contradict that book. So, Bungie will have the best of both worlds, an established story which everyone knows, but the ability to create a new plotline within that story.

Why would Bungie do that? Because the current story for the Spartans in Fall of Reach isn't dynamically exciting. They fall to Reach, defended the generators, some go and nuke a cruiser, then, after a while, they retreat to an underground base. That plotline, while realistic in a fashion, does not vary enough for a good video game. A new group of Spartans gives a wider variety of missions. They can fight in the cities of Reach, on the plains, in forests, jungles, mountains, etc. Bungie can let the group do what ever they want, in more exciting battlefields. (Imagine a Airfield being attacked by waves of Covenant dropships, first you have to defend the SAM batteries, so that they can kill dozens of dropships, then you have to go blow up a Scarab or something) Furthermore, a new group of Spartans will give Bungie room to give them new and more advanced armor, with more opportunities for new abilities and tricks.

I think that there are a new group of Spartans, because the inclusion of a new class of Spartan-II s will give Bungie a far greater ability to write a good game story.

  • 09.10.2009 6:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

I think we are all making big leaps in this. Especially from Magog's supposed "proof" that Sierra means Spartan, which is deeply flawed. We should take a step back and try to conjure reasoning as to why Sierra 259 most likely means Spartan.

  • 09.10.2009 7:50 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

Consolidating most of the information I've seen here on the Bungie Halo Reach Forums, I assume that there probably are Spartan IIs Class 2s. An example MAY BE Sierra 259. They referred to Spartan 117, John, as Sierra 117, and what I'm thinking is what if Sierra 259 really means 2-59. Because there were only 150 candidates. How could one be numbered 259? I think the explanation of Sierra 2-59 is the most reasonable.

  • 09.10.2009 7:56 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: Council Elite 12
Consolidating most of the information I've seen here on the Bungie Halo Reach Forums, I assume that there probably are Spartan IIs Class 2s. An example MAY BE Sierra 259. They referred to Spartan 117, John, as Sierra 117, and what I'm thinking is what if Sierra 259 really means 2-59. Because there were only 150 candidates. How could one be numbered 259? I think the explanation of Sierra 2-59 is the most reasonable.

They call John 117 not 1-17. That would mean that he is a Spartan 1 that Johnson. There may have been more than 150 candidates for the S-II class 2s.

  • 09.10.2009 8:25 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

THERE IS NO CLASS II'S!

It's so annoying how people cling to false hope, even when the facts are presented to them.

  • 09.10.2009 8:30 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: privet caboose
THERE IS NO CLASS II'S!

It's so annoying how people cling to false hope, even when the facts are presented to them.

*Laughs in anger*
There is NO proof against their existance. A false hope is Religion, but this isn't the place for that. "THERE IS NO CLASS II's" that quote bothers me as it does not use proper grammar.

  • 09.10.2009 8:35 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I showed you my reasoning earlier.

If in the books, it says the project was put on hold indefinitely, that means they weren't working on it.

Spartan III's were trained instead.

The only Class II we've seen is Nicole, and she's confirmed to be non-canon.

The only other time we hear about class II's is ILB, and Joe Staten said that it was NOT canon.


Therefor, all Canon states they are a cancelled project.

  • 09.10.2009 8:44 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: privet caboose
I showed you my reasoning earlier.

If in the books, it says the project was put on hold indefinitely, that means they weren't working on it.

Spartan III's were trained instead.

The only Class II we've seen is Nicole, and she's confirmed to be non-canon.

The only other time we hear about class II's is ILB, and Joe Staten said that it was NOT canon.


Therefor, all Canon states they are a cancelled project.

I don't give a damn about Nicole. And the class 2s were delayed, not canceled. They began training in 2537 and ended training in 2545. S-III are basicly suicide grunts. They get the job done...but with a price. Another reason for a second class.

  • 09.10.2009 8:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: privet caboose
I showed you my reasoning earlier.

If in the books, it says the project was put on hold indefinitely, that means they weren't working on it.

Spartan III's were trained instead.

The only Class II we've seen is Nicole, and she's confirmed to be non-canon.

The only other time we hear about class II's is ILB, and Joe Staten said that it was NOT canon.


Therefor, all Canon states they are a cancelled project.


Listen to Caboose here, he knows what he's talking about. Yeah sure there's a million in one chance that there are Class II's but it's almost impossible and I without a doubt believe that they don't exist.

  • 09.10.2009 8:49 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

...You do realize that you just proved me right?

Alpha company began training in 2531. That means that Mendez was already working on the spartan III's and not spartan II's.

Also, Halsey was too busy with the original group of spartans, and MJOLNIR armor to work on the spartans.


If neither of the 2 main "founders" were working on the project, and the spartan III's had already begun training, why would they be called Spartan II's?

  • 09.10.2009 8:51 PM PDT
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I'm one with the warrior inside. The evidence can't be denied. The entire world will stare. Into this battlefield tonight. As I stand before you with a warrior's heart now. I can feel the strength that will Ensure my victory this time

Posted by: Tucker 051
Posted by: privet caboose
I showed you my reasoning earlier.

If in the books, it says the project was put on hold indefinitely, that means they weren't working on it.

Spartan III's were trained instead.

The only Class II we've seen is Nicole, and she's confirmed to be non-canon.

The only other time we hear about class II's is ILB, and Joe Staten said that it was NOT canon.


Therefor, all Canon states they are a cancelled project.


Listen to Caboose here, he knows what he's talking about. Yeah sure there's a million in one chance that there are Class II's but it's almost impossible and I without a doubt believe that they don't exist.

I am allowed to state my opinion. I don't f***ing care about ILB, or what Caboose says. There is no F***ING Proof against a second class existing.

  • 09.10.2009 8:53 PM PDT

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