Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: A Suggestion: Remove Dual Wielding for Reach
  • Subject: A Suggestion: Remove Dual Wielding for Reach
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: A Suggestion: Remove Dual Wielding for Reach

I am an avid gamer with a passion to keep games fun and strategy provoking, rather than simply button mashing instant-reward games that plague the market nowadays. I'm not kind, but I'm rational, fair, and maybe, just maybe, somewhat intelligent.

Don't start this. This is why I hate coming on here.

On Topic: If the weapon selection was more like Halo:CE, then I think it would be balanced. Maybe make the pistol a 4 shot. The Plasma Rifle was useful because it stopped an enemy in their tracks, which made it deadly close range. Every weapon in Halo:CE was useful and served a different purpose at the same time. It worked the best. I personally do not like the BR in either game, I'd much rather have the pistol.


As for dual wielding; I still think it should be removed, it does not fit well into Bungie's golden triangle. I feel also that it adds nothing to the game. It's just there, plus it is very limiting considering that you cannot grenade or melee depending on your settings.

  • 09.17.2009 6:47 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: Council Elite 12
You make it sounds like the Plasma Rifle isn't good for absolutely anything, and that taking down shields is worthless. Taking down shields is a major factor in deciding who lives and who dies. You take down the shielding, you have a window of opportunity to finish them off.
You're missing the point... In Halo 1 (no dual wielding), the PR (and PP) was better at taking out shields than human weapons, but it could still get a kill on its own. You didn't have to finish off the kill with another weapon or a melee. It was worth using in more than one situation. VARIET :)

  • 09.17.2009 6:48 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Council Elite 12
I believe you're exaggerating too much. The Plasma Pistol and Plasma Rifle are both useful and strong, but in different ways. Each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. The Plasma Pistol, when charged up, can wipe out an entire energy shield or disable a vehicle. A Plasma Rifle quickly dispatches an enemy's shielding. Don't forget that you don't always need to dual-wield the same two weapons. Great combinations are those such as the PR and the SMG, the PR for shielding and SMG for killing. Dual-wielding is for using combinations of guns so that you can also have extra space as well.
I'm not exaggerating... pick up a Plasma Rifle in Halo 2 or 3. Shoot someone with it while they're fighting back with another weapon. You WILL NOT kill them if the match is anywhere near evenly matched. Guaranteed. You NEED to pair the weapon with something else - melee, grenade, or a second gun, in order to gain a kill.

The PR in Halo 1, on the other hand, could actually be used to kill someone. Not just take down their shields so you can finish them off with a melee or headshot with another weapon. It was a good gun.

Same with the Plasma Pistol. In Halo 2 and 3 it is only worth using for taking down shields. It is 100% useless to use it against someone to try and kill them. It takes, what, 20 headshots to kill an unshielded opponent with it? In Halo 1 a few charged shots would kill someone. They don't kill in Halo 2 and 3. You could also kill someone in a few extra shots than the PR. It was a good weapon all-around. Versatile. Now it's only good for taking out shields.

Either way you have variety.

With DW weapons can be paired, but the drawback is that they are worthless past close range or used alone. Without DW weapons cannot be paired as conveniently, but they can be more versatile (used on more situations) and more often, so there is more variety in combat.

I think that the latter form of variety is much more fun and rewarding...


What are you talking about, I've killed lots of people during games on Halo 2 and Halo 3 with the Plasma Rifle. No, I'm not talking about the campaign, actual multiplayer.

And you never NEED to pair a gun up with something to kill them. All it takes is practice and skill to pull it off, unless of course you're fighting against someone with a BR, or other power weapons. Then you're -blam!-.

  • 09.17.2009 6:49 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Okay, let's say they take out the BR. There is no weapon that bridges the short-long range gap. There is no weapon that can ping snipers at a distance. You'd just be complaining about the Sniper Rifle, or should they remove that too?

Do you see where I'm getting at? Despite your hatred for it, the BR is essential weapon for Halo.

Please read this. All of it, then tell me what you think.

  • 09.17.2009 6:52 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Okay, let's say they take out the BR. There is no weapon that bridges the short-long range gap. There is no weapon that can ping snipers at a distance. You'd just be complaining about the Sniper Rifle, or should they remove that too?

Do you see where I'm getting at? Despite your hatred for it, the BR is essential weapon for Halo.



First. I dont hate the BR, Like everone else, It is pretty much the only weapons I use. The BR problem is hard to solve, Yes. You do need something for mid-long range. What I am getting at is that the BR is making almost every weapon unused. Don't say it is not becasue it is the first weapon 99% of halo players go for.
I think you would have to make it weaker. Maby the first halo 2 BR with the one shot but not as strong...

  • 09.17.2009 6:52 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: Council Elite 12
Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Council Elite 12
I believe you're exaggerating too much. The Plasma Pistol and Plasma Rifle are both useful and strong, but in different ways. Each weapon has its strengths and weaknesses. The Plasma Pistol, when charged up, can wipe out an entire energy shield or disable a vehicle. A Plasma Rifle quickly dispatches an enemy's shielding. Don't forget that you don't always need to dual-wield the same two weapons. Great combinations are those such as the PR and the SMG, the PR for shielding and SMG for killing. Dual-wielding is for using combinations of guns so that you can also have extra space as well.
I'm not exaggerating... pick up a Plasma Rifle in Halo 2 or 3. Shoot someone with it while they're fighting back with another weapon. You WILL NOT kill them if the match is anywhere near evenly matched. Guaranteed. You NEED to pair the weapon with something else - melee, grenade, or a second gun, in order to gain a kill.

The PR in Halo 1, on the other hand, could actually be used to kill someone. Not just take down their shields so you can finish them off with a melee or headshot with another weapon. It was a good gun.

Same with the Plasma Pistol. In Halo 2 and 3 it is only worth using for taking down shields. It is 100% useless to use it against someone to try and kill them. It takes, what, 20 headshots to kill an unshielded opponent with it? In Halo 1 a few charged shots would kill someone. They don't kill in Halo 2 and 3. You could also kill someone in a few extra shots than the PR. It was a good weapon all-around. Versatile. Now it's only good for taking out shields.

Either way you have variety.

With DW weapons can be paired, but the drawback is that they are worthless past close range or used alone. Without DW weapons cannot be paired as conveniently, but they can be more versatile (used on more situations) and more often, so there is more variety in combat.

I think that the latter form of variety is much more fun and rewarding...


What are you talking about, I've killed lots of people during games on Halo 2 and Halo 3 with the Plasma Rifle. No, I'm not talking about the campaign, actual multiplayer.

And you never NEED to pair a gun up with something to kill them. All it takes is practice and skill to pull it off, unless of course you're fighting against someone with a BR, or other power weapons. Then you're -blam!-.
What's your gamertag?

  • 09.17.2009 6:53 PM PDT

http://www.planethamachi.com/net_detail.php?&net_detail=H alo+2+FM1

Keep it, I only use it when I need to.

  • 09.17.2009 6:55 PM PDT

There's no canonical reason that a Spartan in pre-Mark V armour couldn't dual wield. They're still supersoldiers in powered battlesuits. They can handle it. They're pretty big failures if they can't.

The lack of dual-wielding in Halo: CE, to the best of my knowledge, has never been stated to be a limitation of the Mark V armour. It was a gameplay mechanic. You also can't lie down, take a dump, or eat in any of the games, but of course a Spartan could do any of those things--with no explanation necessary--if the story called for it.

  • 09.17.2009 7:12 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: SeraphvsIvdicii
There's no canonical reason that a Spartan in pre-Mark V armour couldn't dual wield. They're still supersoldiers in powered battlesuits. They can handle it. They're pretty big failures if they can't.

The lack of dual-wielding in Halo: CE, to the best of my knowledge, has never been stated to be a limitation of the Mark V armour. It was a gameplay mechanic. You also can't lie down, take a dump, or eat in any of the games, but of course a Spartan could do any of those things--with no explanation necessary--if the story called for it.
The act of DWing may not be impossible for a Spartan but its possible that the Mk V armor could only track the ammo and aiming reticle of one weapon at a time, so your left handed weapon would have no ammo indicator and your aim would be thrown off more. Something to that effect. Making DWing impractical in gameplay; a reason to not include it.

Of course that is just an explanation for it being different, like how the Mk V didn't have the biofoam injectors built in like the Mk VI did.

[Edited on 09.17.2009 7:20 PM PDT]

  • 09.17.2009 7:14 PM PDT

Your friend is not a reliable source of information

ok, I agree with this, but all weapons that can be dual wielded should do more damage to compensate.

  • 09.17.2009 7:17 PM PDT

I don't know. I liked the idea of making weapons longer range and stronger on their own, but severely cutting the accuracy of weapons and making them extremely short range, but useful when dual wielding.

  • 09.17.2009 7:18 PM PDT

Posted by: King Droid
Second of all, if Bungie wishes to keep the game more realistic, a idea they seem to lean towards quite a bit, it is unrealistic to dual wield to sub machine guns. It is hard enough for one SMG, seeing how much recoil there is.


No amount of recoil is going to really affect the accuracy of a Spartan. Sure, it might affect you with your 15 pound arm, but with a 1/2 ton suit of armor on AND the biotechnical modifications necessary to support all that? Your a freaking tank. Putting a machine gun on a tank isn't going to have any problem aiming.

  • 09.17.2009 7:24 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Dual wielding needs some serious balancing but I think it should return in a reworked form for Reach. It really makes Master Chief seem more powerful and it adds more variety to the gameplay but it shouldn't nerf the game just to be implemented.

  • 09.17.2009 7:56 PM PDT

Holla bip bip!!

Why remove daul weilding? Despite that it, and all the other things in this game are somewhat unrealistic. Like how does someone jump and still have control of a sniper rifle as if they were standing? Maybe they should fix this.

Duel weilding doesn't hurt this game. If anything, duel weilding makes the game more interesting and enjoyable, especially for campaign. In multiplayer duel weilding adds stategy for advanced players, such as pistol w/ plasma rifle in order to lower sheilds and get headshots.

If duel weilding is taken away then the purpose of using non duel weildable weapons like a pistol or mualer is lost. That's about 1/4 of the weapons.

If I didn't want to waste my time with reasoning, I may be smart enough to just say this topic is stupid. Duel weilding doesn't hurt the game. It actually helps if anything. So why remove it? Realism is a dumb argument for a science fiction fps.

EDIT: The only thing I see helping this idea is making weapons stronger. This idea make the game more like Halo CE but with twice the weapons(not including third person), and I doubt this is a smart idea. Spikers and Mauler would loose their purpose and be clones of SMGs and Shotgun respectively.

[Edited on 09.17.2009 8:25 PM PDT]

  • 09.17.2009 8:10 PM PDT

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Remove it. Agreed.


Agreed.

  • 09.17.2009 8:26 PM PDT

Holla bip bip!!

I think no matter what happens. If the AR, BR, and carbine are in this game. Everyone will gravitate towards using these, and dual wieldable weapons stronger or not will be ignored as much as they are now.

Think about making every dw, a single wield and uping their power. This makes the game a circus if there's 14 weapons that can all kill really well. And how would this be balanced. GEEEZUS. If bungie smart they'll ignore this and just keep everything the same. Less work for them.

  • 09.17.2009 8:32 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: Sigma617
EDIT: come on!!! even if the armor couldnt track the ammunition in the second gun a spartan would know by heart the amount of rounds remaining and i bet he could estimate the aiming vector of his weapon. im sorry this just really bugs me when people pull up this excuse for spartans in Mark v who cant dual weild.
The REASON for it to be removed would be gameplay. But for gameplay reasons they normally try to explain it away with something else, even if it doesn't make that much sense. One of the reasons for not having DW could be because the Mk V didn't track two weapons at once.

Sure, the SPARTAN could estimate how much ammo is in the weapon but how would the Spartan's thoughts translate onto your HUD? That part doesn't make sense. Even if the Spartan could guess, the player would not be able to see it, and he would have to be the one doing the guessing, which many people probably wouldn't like having to do.

Though actually I think this could be a good idea if DW returns in the only way that it could possibly work. By that I mean weapons would operate like in Halo 1 (powerful, versatile, variety in the sandbox) but when the DW ones are dualed, their accuracy is cut in half (or lower), ammunition maximum cut in half, and they get lots of muzzle climb. One more thing to balance could be not seeing the ammo amount in one of your weapons due to the older software in the Mk V.

[Edited on 09.18.2009 10:59 AM PDT]

  • 09.18.2009 10:57 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

Why is Captain Kirk climbing the mountain?

I think in an all out war for an entire planet, there are going to be situations that require the dual weilding of weapons. I hope they keep it.

  • 09.18.2009 11:14 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

You've got my vote, dual weilding hurt weapon balance more than pretty much anything else than I can think of, except possibly the BR.

I'd say that if ODST does well without it, then there is no reason it should return.

  • 09.18.2009 11:15 AM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: King Droid
I know that most of you who come to visit this thread based on the title will most likely disagree with me. However, I think that removing dual wielding will make Reach an over all better experience.

Somethings to know before hand, first of all, I am a "MLG" kid if do not know already. Second, keep the debate/discussion mature and in a on topic manner.

Now onto my main point.

I believe that dual wielding should be removed from Reach. First of all, if Bungie wants to keep the story lines accuracy, it should be removed. In Halo 2, the updated armor allowed the ability to dual wield. Second of all, if Bungie wishes to keep the game more realistic, a idea they seem to lean towards quite a bit, it is unrealistic to dual wield to sub machine guns. It is hard enough for one SMG, seeing how much recoil there is.

I will update this thread when I get a chance.

Well, I think it is perfectly realistic for a Spartan, a super soldier with armor that could lock in place removing the recoil factor almost entirely anyway, to dual wield. But yes, it is very true that in Reach you will be in the old Mk V, which could NOT support visual links to 2 weapons. This did not mean that they couldn't do it, this just meant they would need to focus harder on aiming the second weapon, and no info on it would appear on the HUD.

Anyway, overall. You are right, just the realism thing is a little off. You do have to keep in mind a Spartan is NOT a Human, and can smash down thick brick walls with a punch with no effort.

  • 09.18.2009 11:21 AM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Posted by: MLG Cheehwawa
Posted by: Sigma617
EDIT: come on!!! even if the armor couldnt track the ammunition in the second gun a spartan would know by heart the amount of rounds remaining and i bet he could estimate the aiming vector of his weapon. im sorry this just really bugs me when people pull up this excuse for spartans in Mark v who cant dual weild.
The REASON for it to be removed would be gameplay. But for gameplay reasons they normally try to explain it away with something else, even if it doesn't make that much sense. One of the reasons for not having DW could be because the Mk V didn't track two weapons at once.

Sure, the SPARTAN could estimate how much ammo is in the weapon but how would the Spartan's thoughts translate onto your HUD? That part doesn't make sense. Even if the Spartan could guess, the player would not be able to see it, and he would have to be the one doing the guessing, which many people probably wouldn't like having to do.

Though actually I think this could be a good idea if DW returns in the only way that it could possibly work. By that I mean weapons would operate like in Halo 1 (powerful, versatile, variety in the sandbox) but when the DW ones are dualed, their accuracy is cut in half (or lower), ammunition maximum cut in half, and they get lots of muzzle climb. One more thing to balance could be not seeing the ammo amount in one of your weapons due to the older software in the Mk V.

If the weapons are anything like Halo CE's, the only Dual Wieldable weapons should be the Pistol, Plasma Pistol, SMG, and MAYBE the Mauler if it is included. JUST the Pistols and SMG. The Plasma RIFLE, and Spiker RIFLE, are both too big, and should be stronger anyway IMO. If Bungie made a plasma SMG to be dual wielded, I wouldn't mind it. But keep the Rifles Single Wield.

  • 09.18.2009 11:26 AM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

I like dual wielding.

  • 09.18.2009 11:57 AM PDT

Dude wheres my warthog?

Posted by: King Droid
I know that most of you who come to visit this thread based on the title will most likely disagree with me. However, I think that removing dual wielding will make Reach an over all better experience.

Somethings to know before hand, first of all, I am a "MLG" kid if do not know already. Second, keep the debate/discussion mature and in a on topic manner.

Now onto my main point.

I believe that dual wielding should be removed from Reach. First of all, if Bungie wants to keep the story lines accuracy, it should be removed. In Halo 2, the updated armor allowed the ability to dual wield. Second of all, if Bungie wishes to keep the game more realistic, a idea they seem to lean towards quite a bit, it is unrealistic to dual wield to sub machine guns. It is hard enough for one SMG, seeing how much recoil there is.

I will update this thread when I get a chance.



Spartans - Nuff said

  • 09.18.2009 12:03 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3