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This topic has moved here: Subject: Why the combat knife may work. *Halo Wars Spoiler*
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Subject: Why the combat knife may work. *Halo Wars Spoiler*

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

I have found that there is a lot of controversy regarding the use of a combat knife. People may say it would be useless because of shielded enemies. They may say that a knife would be useless hundreds of years into the future. However, think about this. If a spartan can decimate the sheilds of an elite or brute with a punch, wouldn't sharpend steel do the job much more effectively?

While you may think that the metal wouldn't be strong enough to withstand the blow, why can't the UNSC have found some super-strong metal on a different planet of something of that sort that could peirce energy shields without breaking?

For elites, there would have to be an equivalent to a knife because they probably wouldn't use a UNSC issued knife. Maybe an energy knife. A short, energy powered knife like the energy sword, but shorter and not nessessarily a one hit kill, but maybe close to it.

My final point is fairly weak, but I'll put it there anyway. This is in Halo Wars, so you may not regard it as cannon. *Halo Wars Spoiler*
Near the end of the campaign, when Sargent Forge fights the Arbiter, he ends up stabbing him with a knife in the neck before finishing him off with an energy sword. If a normal human can piece an elite with a combat knife, why not a spartan?
*End Halo Wars Spoiler

Reasons why a combat knife would be better/cooler than the normal melee and shotgun
1. Knives are cooler than just wacking people in my opinion.
2. Bungie could make a melee do 40-50 percent damage and a knife do 80-90 percent damage. So if you melee, you can get back to shooting faster, but if you knife someone, you would do more damage, but would have to wait 1 to 2 seconds before you can shoot again. Mind that you would be able to knife after your first swing without haveing to wait very long. (maybe a second or so)
3. I've seen someone say it would take the place of a shotgun only weaker. This is true, except that you would always have one on you and it would never run out of ammo or break. Now, if someone had a shotgun, and you had your knife, the shotgun would probably win because the knife isn't quite an instant kill whereas the shotgun is at close range. (at least in Halo 3)

Community Contribution
I have seen it writen that active camo elites don't have sheilding, now, maybe on them, a knife would be instant kill but on a normal elite, it would only do 80 to 90% damage. Also, how cool would it be if your walking through a covie ship in campaign, it's dark, you turn around and see a ripple in the failing light. You try to fire your assault rifle, and your out of ammo, you wip out your knife and stab and the now very close elite. You knife penetrates their armor thanks to your immense strength, and the elite falls dead at your feet.

I've seen some people writing about the fact that a knife would glance off of an opponents shield, but if a spike from a brute spiker does damage, wouldn't a knife that is held somewhat more stable by the user do even more damage?

1. Thanks to PredatorySmile
Why dont they make like 2 kinds melee animations.
Just a elbow or punch when you want to damage a enemy.
When a enemy is damage to the point that a melee is lethal we will use the combat knife animation.
This would look pretty cool to be sure.

[Edited on 09.19.2009 10:24 AM PDT]

  • 09.18.2009 5:03 PM PDT

Caboose -1


It looks like a Puma?!?

In the time of Reach covenent didn't have sheilds..Read First Strike the part where Haverson kills the Engineer..

  • 09.18.2009 5:04 PM PDT

he was a elite with invisibility i think im pretty sure he didnt have shielding accoding to halo novels

  • 09.18.2009 5:23 PM PDT

They should use adamentium! The stuff in wolverine!

  • 09.18.2009 5:24 PM PDT

Is that stuff real?

Bah, who cares.

  • 09.18.2009 5:29 PM PDT

"Everything works itself out. The only thing that matters is whether you want it to or not."

Last Refuge - Operation Phoenix is in effect. From the ashes, we will rise.

Well, the Arbiter's shields were down, so I'm assuming that's why he was able to get him in the neck. However, having some kind of combat knife, sword, scimitar, something like that, would be nice.

  • 09.18.2009 5:49 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

It would be kind of cool if you could use a katana. Maybe just use it as a re-skinned energy sword?

  • 09.18.2009 6:48 PM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

The melee in Halo 3 does 70 damage. The melee from a Brute shot does 72 damage. It would be pointless to have a knife if it only did about as much damage as a normal melee. There would be no point to the knife. With a gun you can shoot AND melee. With a knife you can just do the melee.

Maybe they could remove melee lunge and make you run faster with a knife equipped, and it would be one of the only weapons with melee lunge (the other being the Sword), and it would have a melee speed 2x that of with a normal gun or Sword.

[Edited on 09.18.2009 6:54 PM PDT]

  • 09.18.2009 6:53 PM PDT

i do not accept recruitment messages

sgt.forge stabed in a spot with no armor
so when we have knives the spartans will be invulnerable but elites will get pwned by knives?

stupid

  • 09.18.2009 6:59 PM PDT

- Hey mars, can you smell that?
- Smell what??
- Uranus.
[Insert troll face here]

Posted by: Council Elite 12
Well, the Arbiter's shields were down, so I'm assuming that's why he was able to get him in the neck. However, having some kind of combat knife, sword, scimitar, something like that, would be nice.

  • 09.18.2009 7:02 PM PDT

This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends,
This is the way the world ends;
Not with a bang but a whimper.

Posted by: kamikaze5145
sgt.forge stabed in a spot with no armor
so when we have knives the spartans will be invulnerable but elites will get pwned by knives?

stupid


Nope, the spartans also have joints that are lightly armored. But that is beside the point. The spartans would take the same amount of damage as elites. Remember, this would be presumably a very strong metal. Combined with the fact that spartans and elites are very strong, it wouldn't be very hard to imagine that a knife would piece the armor.

  • 09.18.2009 7:04 PM PDT

In the time of Reach covenent didn't have sheilds..Read First Strike the part where Haverson kills the Engineer..
False fact is false.

Dude- The Covenant DID have sheilds then! Have'nt you ever played Halo: Combat Evolved? The Elites did have sheilds (and may I mention that Spartans did too?), and Halo Wars (before the attack on Reach), the Covenant have sheilds. Also, Harverson kills the Engineer in The First Strike... WHICH IS AFTER F**KING HALO:CE!!!!! LEWIS BLACK!!!!!!!

  • 09.18.2009 7:14 PM PDT

http://objection.mrdictionary.net/go.php?n=3256977

  • 09.18.2009 8:22 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Well, Spartans and marines have combat knifes as part of their equipment (as seen in books, Halo Wars, and the Halo Legends preview). Modern soldiers carry combat knives at all time, too. So, it's not that far of a stretch. The only foreseeable problem is that, how would it work out? Unless a spartan is weaponless, and I'd image the knife would take two hits to kill. A Spartan melee weapon would be cool, but is impractical for gameplay.

  • 09.18.2009 9:06 PM PDT

Step 7 is on it's way. Prepare the sling-shot.

All hail for the seventh number.

A problem with the knife would be that it would make it seem a lot like call of duty.

  • 09.18.2009 9:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Council Elite 12
Well, the Arbiter's shields were down, so I'm assuming that's why he was able to get him in the neck. However, having some kind of combat knife, sword, scimitar, something like that, would be nice.


That Arbiter didn't have shields at all. His armor was bulletproof and had good camo but no energy shielding. (that's why when Sergeant Forge fires at 'Moramee the bullets ricochet)
Thel 'Vadam (the Arbiter from Halo 2 and 3) had shielding but poor Active Camoflage.

Anyways... On to the combat knife idea. The UNSC has a CQB Mjiolnir variant which includes a combat knife clearly visible on the left side of the chest. Obviously Spartans did use combat knives and weren't bashing stuff with flags, skulls, and bombs. It would be nice to have one or two appear in cutscenes or cinematics. Making the combat knife have a purpose is difficult. There already is the energy sword which is lighter, sharper, easier to store, and - let's face it - much cooler than the combat knife. I don't see a reason to put one in as a usable weapon for Halo: Reach.

  • 09.18.2009 11:05 PM PDT
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No.

Posted by: R0UGE ASSASSIN
In the time of Reach covenent didn't have sheilds..Read First Strike the part where Haverson kills the Engineer..


Yeah they did. The first time they saw an elite it had sheilds.

I'm pretty sure engineers aren't sheilded either. At least excuding ODST appearances.

  • 09.18.2009 11:07 PM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: R0UGE ASSASSIN
In the time of Reach covenent didn't have sheilds..Read First Strike the part where Haverson kills the Engineer..


You should remove this from the OP, since it's wrong.

Elites had shields since they were first seen in Halo Wars.

Brutes didn't because they were under Tartarus during The fall of Reach, and practically never wore armour.

Grunt's armour is too small to mount shields on/ it would interfere with their breathing system.

Jackals would need heavier armour, which negates the advantage of being faster. On top of this, they already have the shield gauntlet, which Spartan shields were based off of.

Drones haven't got armour as such, just chitin plates.

Engineers haven't typically got armour in any case, at least outside of ODST. They aren't meant for combat.

Hunters are practically indestructible. It wouldn't be feasible to mount a shield on them.


A combat knife would be cool, but pointless. It would essentially fill the same role as the shotgun, but weaker.

[Edited on 09.18.2009 11:17 PM PDT]

  • 09.18.2009 11:16 PM PDT

In the days of old, there were legends of a land long lost to time. This land was known as Ranna'Mor. Ranna'Mor was said to contain in its borders 7 warriors. These warriors had once unleashed a veritable hell upon the ancient world, until they were locked away. My name is Toriad, and I am one of those warriors. Our return is approaching. Do not run away, do not cower in fear; take solace in your final days, for that is all we can do. -Legend of Ranna'Mor

Posted by: llamalizard
Posted by: R0UGE ASSASSIN
In the time of Reach covenent didn't have sheilds..Read First Strike the part where Haverson kills the Engineer..


You should remove this from the OP, since it's wrong.

Elites had shields since they were first seen in Halo Wars.

Brutes didn't because they were under Tartarus during The fall of Reach, and practically never wore armour.

Grunt's armour is too small to mount shields on/ it would interfere with their breathing system.

Jackals would need heavier armour, which negates the advantage of being faster. On top of this, they already have the shield gauntlet, which Spartan shields were based off of.

Drones haven't got armour as such, just chitin plates.

Engineers haven't typically got armour in any case, at least outside of ODST. They aren't meant for combat.

Hunters are practically indestructible. It wouldn't be feasible to mount a shield on them.


A combat knife would be cool, but pointless. It would essentially fill the same role as the shotgun, but weaker.
Well, if the elite in Halo: Reach are anything like the ones in Halo 1, elites with active cameo wouldn't have shields. Remember boarding the "Truth and Reconciliation"?

And brutes did have Power armor at the time, as well. It just wasn't featured in Halo 2 because Bungie hadn't thought of it yet. In Halo Wars, Halo Legends, and Halo 3: ODST, Brutes have power-armor, which means shields.

But yes, a combat knife, while cool, wouldn't be too effective.

  • 09.18.2009 11:22 PM PDT
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ok when i first read this i was thinking the whole time where does the energy sword come in to all this then? ( I know this is not the knife your thinking because knives and swords are different.)

  • 09.18.2009 11:30 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

A knife is useless against anything with personal shielding. An example from the books is when Master Chief did hand to hand combat in 0 gravity for the first time with an Elite. The entire time they were sliding off each other from the shields. A knife would be no different. The only reason this isn't true for weaponry is because its blunt. A knife would be rendered useless. Another good example of this is the movie Dune, which had personal shielding also. The only way to get through that shielding was to use a knife moving at a slow speed, slowly piercing the shield. That is definitely not practical in a battle against a technologically superior enemy.

  • 09.19.2009 12:36 AM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: R0UGE ASSASSIN
In the time of Reach covenent didn't have sheilds..Read First Strike the part where Haverson kills the Engineer..

The Covenant had shields, Engineers simply didn't have them.

  • 09.19.2009 12:39 AM PDT

our melee is strong enough, we dont really need it although it would be nice.

  • 09.19.2009 12:56 AM PDT

Halo Wars = non-cannon. Nuff said

  • 09.19.2009 1:12 AM PDT

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