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This topic has moved here: Subject: Theory - No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach
  • Subject: Theory - No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach
Subject: Theory - No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach

O no My Friend

Posted by: ericstifer
Seems to make sense since the battle rifle was not around back then...well technically it was as Sargent johnson was given a prototype in contact harvest. But that's beside the point.

Bungie said they don't like the battle rifle as it makes for stale repetitive encounters in multiplayer. Encounters become all about keeping the redicule on the other characters head and pulling the trigger repeatably. If you think about it there shouldn't have ever been a long range rifle that shoots 3 bullets, because each one is a chance for a head shot and it only takes one of those three for a kill when they have no shields.

They already took it out of the game in ODST and are putting a big emphasis on the get the shields down and finish them off with a pistol head shot type of game play. Also in all the gametypes now in matchmaking that don't start with battle rifles they give you AR and pistol, which is awesome by the way. Gotta love finishing off someone with a pistol head shot, especially at long range since you have to lead them.

So there you go, that is what i believe Bungie is planning and why i think they are doing it. In my opinion it is a change for the better. Don't have any proof yet, but as the subject says "Theory".

Discuss?


There was one guy from bungie that said he dont like it and he was the one working on ODST soooo there a good chance it will be there its all up to the developer

  • 09.28.2009 10:23 PM PDT

Posted by: Popsical187
There was one guy from bungie that said he dont like it and he was the one working on ODST soooo there a good chance it will be there its all up to the developer


Paul Bertone was ODST's design lead. If he's in the same position on Reach, there probably won't be dual wielding or BRs.

  • 09.28.2009 10:32 PM PDT

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All in all, I really hope they stick with the book in terms of weapon design and many others.

  • 09.28.2009 10:53 PM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: BlindFire v6
Posted by: ericstifer
Seems to make sense since the battle rifle was not around back then...well technically it was as Sargent johnson was given a prototype in contact harvest. But that's beside the point.....
And I stopped reading, because you know what? Everything else you said was besides the point.


thanks for helping the discussion.

and right after i started this thread i went to http://halo.wikia.com/wiki/Main_Page and looked up the BR and realized i was wrong so my bad. maybe if you were cool and read the rest of the post you would have seen the part about the whole "Theory" thing. At this point its had to tell what will and wont be in halo reach to really say one from the other. We just have to let the sands of time solve this one. and bungie reads all the forum posts because they love feedback and that is exactly what this forum post is all about. In retrospect i should have called this post "Why i Believe the battle rifle shouldnt be in halo reach." but whatev.

  • 09.29.2009 12:31 AM PDT

Posted by: EchoGamer
Better solution:
Make the BR semi-automatic (one bullet per trigger pull), and reduce it's damage, but increase it's accuracy over long ranges. Thus, it will become a medium-long range weapon, and weak in close range encounters.

Then, to compensate, reduce the bullet spread of the Assault Rifle slightly. And decrease melee power.

^The MA5K carbine was a weaker, stripped down version of the MA5B, it did not have a scope. But I DO want it in Reach, because I like the design.


your br solution
it's called the covenant carbine -_-
does everything you guys want the br to be

why decrease melee power? All weapons have the same melee power except the sword and hammer


People we don't even know yet if it's based directly on the books
it can be a compelety different squad of Spartans on the other side of reach
who can be using protoype brs. That is not mentioned in the books

how can reach not have brs? Reach was the technology and military hub of the unsc

[Edited on 09.29.2009 2:23 AM PDT]

  • 09.29.2009 2:20 AM PDT

I don't know if anyone has read any of the Halo books set further back in the Halo timeline (Contact Harvest and The Cole Protocol) but both of those books had the battle rifle in and were blatantly mentioned, so there is every possibility that the BRs would appear in reach.

  • 09.29.2009 8:53 AM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: Darth Willyum
I don't know if anyone has read any of the Halo books set further back in the Halo timeline (Contact Harvest and The Cole Protocol) but both of those books had the battle rifle in and were blatantly mentioned, so there is every possibility that the BRs would appear in reach.
.

If Bungie takes the battle rifle out it wont be because of story based reasons. ie "it was or wasn't around back then" but it'll be for balance and gameplay reasons

  • 09.29.2009 9:48 AM PDT

BR in social, the noobs won't know what hit them.

My theory-Bungie will do whatever the hell they want and we will have no say in it.

  • 09.29.2009 10:36 AM PDT

>Why do you think Bungie would transfer the niche of the scoped pistol from Halo CE to the Battle Rifle for Halo 2?

Answer: Dual Wielding. How do you balance a medium range weapon that can be dual wielded? Its a difficult answer, so its much simpler to give the niche of the scoped pistol to the battle rifle, something that clearly can't be dual wielded.

>Why do you think Bungie would transfer the niche of the Battle Rifle in Halo 3 to the Scoped Pistol of Halo 3: ODST?

Answer: Dual Wielding. Or rather, the lack of it. Because the ODST can't dual wield, Bungie doesn't need to worry about a medium ranged weapon that can be dual wielded, so they can included it again.

>Will there be a scoped pistol in Reach?

Answer: Depends on whether or not we have dual wielding. I'm guessing it is likely that we will.

[Edited on 09.29.2009 11:46 AM PDT]

  • 09.29.2009 11:46 AM PDT

When I clicked on your topic I was thinking only to read something like: 'they didn't had it around that time!'
And when I saw the first sentence I was like: 'damn peeps don't have any brains anymore!'

but reading further down your thread I changed my mind about you and your thread. well thought out!! Even I didn't noticed it that they may want to change it to what you are saying right in this topic!

BR shouldn't be cut out of the game totally, if you ask me. Just don't let it be that common in multiplayer (or in the entire game). a nice game of SWAT is nothing without it right?

anyways, you made a good thread! thumbs up!

  • 09.29.2009 12:14 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Lies
The BR is versatile, and it takes more skill to use effectively than any other weapon aside from the Sniper/Beam Rifle and the carbine.

Many who played the Halo 3 Beta would beg to differ. If I remember correctly, the BR was shut down by the Carbine since the weapon was so much more effective and skill oriented. The main reason for this is it performed exactly like a modification of the CE pistol. Five shots to the head was a kill, and you actually had to aim every shot. The only reason this changed for Halo 3 on release is cause they added significant spread to the Carbine which destroyed its consistency.

And about the BR taking skill. Anyone can aim. If anyone here has played any shooters for more than several months they know that aiming is second nature. I'm tired of elitist FPS players who think aiming is everything skill is when aiming isn't even something they think about anymore. A subconscious ability is not a skill at all. The BR's dominance proves it, cause if aiming were so horribly skill defining, then more people wouldn't pick them up since they would suck with them. Yet the BR doesn't gauge aiming ability, it gauges who sees who first.

Posted by: Lies
How many weapons in Halo 3 emphasize headshots? Just 4, the BR, Carbine, Sniper Rifle, and Beam Rifle. Obviously, that means they take more aiming skill than every other weapon, because head shots are harder than body shots.

Ah, you forgot the Pistol. The Pistol is by far THE most skillful weapon when it comes to aiming. It has a slow rate of fire, so you need to constantly adjust your reticle, it has a lower clip than the BR forcing you to make every shot count and it lacks a scope which means precision aiming at a distance is even more skillful. And headshots are harder but tactically stupid when it comes to a gunfight. Why waste shots shooting something small when you can make every bullet count by hitting the center of mass? That's gun tactics 101 my friend.

  • 09.29.2009 12:39 PM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: Moshes
personally i haven't missed it in odst and the odst double exp weekend so if they decide to take it out finally to get rid of the mlg crap and the competitiveness so we can just play a game for fun i wouldn't mind :)


i know what you mean, but MLG will always be around. If they do take the BR out of course people are going to whine and -blam!- about it, especially the MLG guys. Look at what happened in halo 2. they ended up using a HIT SCAN weapon...i mean come on give me a break! and when bungie changed how that hit scan weapon worked for halo 3 they -blam!-ed about it. but here we are today and they are still playing halo 3. the MLG guys can just stay playing halo 3 because of no BR in halo reach thats fine by me. id rather have to use strategy to win my encounters then accuracy anyway because thats more fun and intense. thats why i like encounters in GOW2 :)

  • 09.29.2009 12:48 PM PDT

Keep BUNGLE away from matchmaking, away from these forums, and overall away from this game.

As long as a BR type weapon is in this game, it will be fine.

  • 09.29.2009 12:53 PM PDT

"Check it to the end."
- Sniper Spade

Posted by: Lies

How many weapons in Halo 3 emphasize headshots? Just 4, the BR, Carbine, Sniper Rifle, and Beam Rifle. Obviously, that means they take more aiming skill than every other weapon, because head shots are harder than body shots.

*cough*Magnum*cough*

  • 09.29.2009 1:02 PM PDT

So what if the BR was in the books? It wasn't in the first halo, which takes place after the first strike and the gameplay was better than that of halo 2 and 3.

  • 09.29.2009 1:04 PM PDT

i like me...

also if the BR is taken out the the head shot kill metal, which was introduced in odst and was in halo 3 single player, could make its way into competitive multiplayer. this would happend because head shot kills would become less frequent and require more SKILL to pull off, with weapons such as pistol or carbine. and more metals are always a plus in my book...

BTW loving the new metals in ODST bungie, nice work! :)

[Edited on 09.29.2009 1:46 PM PDT]

  • 09.29.2009 1:45 PM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: ericstifer
But the BR has the best of everything. High stopping power, high accuracy, fast rate of fire, long range, with a deep clip, and lots of spare ammo.

Thats exactly why it should be taken out in halo reach. it just makes the gameplay very stale. Equipment was an amazing idea, it mixes up the encounter and makes for intense gameplay, but when everyone is running around just trying to 4 shot each other with the BR it just kills what the equipment set out to do in the first place.

Bungie...please no BR :)

I actually agree with you, ericstifer.


Thanks im glad i was able to show you what the true evil is in the halo universe. and its not the covenent lol they cower in fear of the battle rifle's evilness :)

  • 09.29.2009 2:13 PM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Lies
The BR is versatile, and it takes more skill to use effectively than any other weapon aside from the Sniper/Beam Rifle and the carbine.

Many who played the Halo 3 Beta would beg to differ. If I remember correctly, the BR was shut down by the Carbine since the weapon was so much more effective and skill oriented. The main reason for this is it performed exactly like a modification of the CE pistol. Five shots to the head was a kill, and you actually had to aim every shot. The only reason this changed for Halo 3 on release is cause they added significant spread to the Carbine which destroyed its consistency.

I'm not sure what relevance the beta version of the carbine has, but I did play the beta and it took 7 carbine shots to kill in the Beta, not 5. The reason it was so powerful was that it shot much faster than it does now. The Halo 3 carbine kills in 8 shots and its ROF is comparable to the Halo 2 version. Carbine

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
And about the BR taking skill. Anyone can aim. If anyone here has played any shooters for more than several months they know that aiming is second nature. I'm tired of elitist FPS players who think aiming is everything skill is when aiming isn't even something they think about anymore. A subconscious ability is not a skill at all. The BR's dominance proves it, cause if aiming were so horribly skill defining, then more people wouldn't pick them up since they would suck with them. Yet the BR doesn't gauge aiming ability, it gauges who sees who first.

You are right that anyone can aim, but not everyone can aim well. This is evident because there is a skill gap in how well people can use the weapons, please don't insult my intelligence and expect me to believe that everyone has the same effectiveness with the BR, that is just wrong.

Aiming is a skill, and to think otherwise is ridiculous. A subconscious skill is still a skill, and the better you become at something, the less you have to think about it and the more you feel it. I play soccer and I am good at it, and when I pass or shoot I don't think about what I am doing, I just feel it. The same goes for any skill, whether it be in sports or video games, if you become very good at something, then you will eventually get to the point where you don't have to think about it and your subconscious does the work for you. Moving from consciously doing something to subconsciously doing something is a natural transition when you get better at something, and that means you are more skilled.

I agree that the BR isn't that hard to use and I would like a starting weapon like the Halo CE. That weapon had a huge skill gap and rewarded players for having proficient aiming much more than the BR. It also emphasizes certain gameplay elements that I believe are critical in making a balanced game, but I won't go into that.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Lies
How many weapons in Halo 3 emphasize headshots? Just 4, the BR, Carbine, Sniper Rifle, and Beam Rifle. Obviously, that means they take more aiming skill than every other weapon, because head shots are harder than body shots.

Ah, you forgot the Pistol. The Pistol is by far THE most skillful weapon when it comes to aiming. It has a slow rate of fire, so you need to constantly adjust your reticle, it has a lower clip than the BR forcing you to make every shot count and it lacks a scope which means precision aiming at a distance is even more skillful. And headshots are harder but tactically stupid when it comes to a gunfight. Why waste shots shooting something small when you can make every bullet count by hitting the center of mass? That's gun tactics 101 my friend.

You are correct that I forgot the pistol, but that really doesn't matter too much. Saying the pistol is the most skillful weapon is wrong, because weapons like the Sniper and Beam rifle are much harder to use to their full effectiveness.

As for comparing it to the BR, it is harder to get kills with, but that rise in difficulty is more related to the plasma pistol's difficulty in getting kills than say, the Sniper's. The magnum is hard to get kills with simply because it is not a very good weapon. Sure, it can be used fairly well in certain situations, but those situations are pretty limited. The magnum has the same random deviation that the BR has except its range is much worse. This makes the outcome of Magnum battles more random, and anyone who has played SWAT Magnums should be able to attest to this. Just because a weapon is harder to get kills with, does not make it more skillful.

  • 09.29.2009 3:04 PM PDT
Subject: Theory - There will be No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach

The only good pace is a suicide pace, and today looks like a good day to die. - Pre

Posted by: ericstifer


Encounters become all about keeping the reticule on the other characters head and pulling the trigger repeatably.




Are you referring to what most people call skill?

Other than that - TL;DR

  • 09.29.2009 3:09 PM PDT
Subject: Theory - No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach
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Posted by: Bass Guitar 11
halo is not tactical or very team oriented. its not like "Dieter, frag and clear on zulu. Loiselle and Price, yoo fall in on my lead. Go! *boom, door breaks and some gunshots heard.* Tango Down! Gold Element, secure hostage. Blue Element, regroup at objective rally point." its usually more like, "yo i gots rockets, ima go camp in the sword room" which you dont even have to say. my point is that you dont need to communicate in halo

Posted by: Lies


You may now remove your dangle from his poop chute.

  • 09.29.2009 3:19 PM PDT

If they atleast have it in matchmaking i will be happy. With out it is retarded.

  • 09.29.2009 3:23 PM PDT
Subject: Theory - There will be No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach

i like me...

Posted by: xtreme cs
Posted by: ericstifer


Encounters become all about keeping the reticule on the other characters head and pulling the trigger repeatably.




Are you referring to what most people call skill?

Other than that - TL;DR


negative, im refering to the fact that encounters are boring and all end up the same. Equpiment set out to mix up an Encounter.

And for anyone that isnt familier with what an encounter is...

An Encounter, as it's called by game designers, is when one player becomes aware of another player and they begin to react to that sudden awareness. Normally an encounter is started by direct visual contact with the other player's character model, however it can also be started by noticing someone on your radar in halo. All games that have competitive multiplayer have encounters such as Gears of War, which did a good job of mixing up encounters except for the shotgun problem that persists in close ranged encounters.

Equipment set out to mix that encounter up in halo, and cause a sudden change in an encounter, such as one player dropping a bubble shield, that would force both player's to rethink their strategy on the fly. however with the BR, it turns all encounters into each player attempting to "Out BR" the other player. Like i said, bad, repetitive gameplay.

[Edited on 09.29.2009 3:31 PM PDT]

  • 09.29.2009 3:29 PM PDT
Subject: Theory - No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach

i like me...

Posted by: Minnesootan
If they atleast have it in matchmaking i will be happy. With out it is retarded.


typical -_-

  • 09.29.2009 5:55 PM PDT

And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be.

If there is a comparable weapon set to that of ODST in Reach, then Bungie would officially fail. Why? The ODST pistol is weak. Great for headshots. That is it.

The BR is a needed component in MM. It requires skill to use, and rewards a skillful user with quick, efficient kills. It would make no sense to bring the Halo:CE pistol back at this point, now that dual wielding is a feature in MM. That would just be uber-supreme overkill.

The BR provides long-medium range power, which is a needed component in MM.


  • 09.29.2009 6:16 PM PDT
Subject: Theory - There will be No Battle Rifle in Halo: Reach

I honestly hope they get rid of the Battle rifle or, because it's during Reach and Shields weren't implemented at the time, make it 1 shot kills.

  • 09.29.2009 6:28 PM PDT