Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: The real problem with the BR

ok in my opinion the br is fine. basically the only way it is good is if someone contintuously pounds u in the head. otherwise it is easily outgunned by the assault rifle. think about it, it takes a degree of skill to continuously headshot someone that is moving so if u think its overpowered your just dreaming.

  • 10.01.2009 6:19 AM PDT

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Posted by: XxDeathiAmxXD
The BR is an essential part of the Halo game play, one that makes it so great.

I'm terribly sorry if you get killed by the BR every 10 seconds, but, that just means you stink at Halo then. And, the BR WILL BE AN ESSENTIAL PART OF REACH. It is the Spartans' primary weapon.


excuse me but it is not, the MA5B is i believe, as that is the standard issue rifle and other than the armor they wear they only get Standard issue equipment just like a marine.

  • 10.01.2009 6:26 AM PDT

just a quick reply to the original post of this thread..how in the blue friggin hell was halo 2 and 3 "built around the BR" that complete and utter bull-blam!- the BR is just a weapon that was included in the games. you realy think they sat down and was like heres a weapon well call it the BR lets make our blockbuster games with an epic story around this weapon

becuase you know..we dont care about anything other than this weapon called the ~BattleRifle..and as a matter of fact.theres alot of people in the bungie company that HATE the BR due to the fact that it dominated halo 2 and it dominates halo 3

and considering there was no BR in halo CE and this is set before the events of that its unlikley they will go against the canon they have set up nd introduce a weapon that hasnt been mass produced yet.

  • 10.01.2009 8:04 AM PDT
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BR haters are a bunch of jabronies.

  • 10.01.2009 8:21 AM PDT

Hail Satan

The bullet spread need to be more like H2: dead accurate, no random spread. The BR should be in all of the halo games because in the books the BR is introduced at Harvest. When the war started. Reach is the Military homeworld were the BR was invented. It would not make sence to have the thing none existant. It would make as much sence as brutes wearing new armour in ODST lol, the details need to match.

  • 10.01.2009 9:34 AM PDT

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Posted by: Shai Hulud
The real problem with the BR is that it's a huge topic of discussion when there's nothing of importance to discuss about it.

It's a gun that fits the role it was made for just fine. It ain't perfect, and it never should be.


Couldn't have said it better myself.

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You just might get it.

  • 10.01.2009 9:41 AM PDT

You say goodbye, and I say good riddance.

It's hard for me to pass judgment on this issue reguarding Halo Reach. As I have no knowlage of the game beyond simply that it is a first person shooter.

However, in reguards to the Br in halo 3, I will say this: Any weapon that takes presidence over all others, has the potential to lead the gameplay down a deteriorating path. Without variety, a game loses all of its flare to me. it's the very reason I ceased playing the original Gears of War, and avoid CoD like my life depends on it. Weapon variety is key to any game, as the alternitive gets repetitve too quickly. I find it astounding that there are actually players who enjoy repeating the same thing over, and over. If every match plays like the last, what is the point of playing another?

Swithcing my reguards to Reach.

I've been thinking that if Reach were a class bases game ( with some clever twists to ensure players explore EVERY class ), it may well solve this problem. Then I realize how simular Halo already is to this, and begin to have my doubts.

The fundemental problem lies in the BR's effetiveness. It is simply the most effective weapon in the game, in almost every circumstance. In fact, if a player is intelligent enough to avoid spots frequented by campers, there really is no other weapon required for a win. This particular logic applies only to non-vehilce maps, but if the player had a splazer on top a BR on one of these maps, well... I think i've made my point.






[Edited on 10.01.2009 10:00 AM PDT]

  • 10.01.2009 9:54 AM PDT

satan i see what your saying but the BR at ahrvest was a prototype.hear me out here for a minute

once a prototype has been given the go ahead for field testing its doing jsut that.its beeing teted.after its been tested in the field it still goes through even more testing and many mor versions of the proto type before it is mass produced

meaning although reahc maybe the military homeworld where the weapon was invented if it hasnt been perfected and out of testing stages they arnt gonna mass produce it becuase the people who use its lifes depend on it.

and since they didnt have the Br in halo CE im guessing that the Br had not been mass produced yet

  • 10.01.2009 9:55 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: xXTnTFrEsHXx
It requires skill to play halo probalbly the only game that takes the most skill.




You lost me.

  • 10.01.2009 10:10 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: CrymzenAssassin
satan i see what your saying but the BR at ahrvest was a prototype.hear me out here for a minute

once a prototype has been given the go ahead for field testing its doing jsut that.its beeing teted.after its been tested in the field it still goes through even more testing and many mor versions of the proto type before it is mass produced

meaning although reahc maybe the military homeworld where the weapon was invented if it hasnt been perfected and out of testing stages they arnt gonna mass produce it becuase the people who use its lifes depend on it.

and since they didnt have the Br in halo CE im guessing that the Br had not been mass produced yet


You think way too much into it.

And I'm sure they all just stopped using the M6D to use the Halo2 Pistol....

Bungie will put weapons in the game based on how well they balance, not based on "OMG IT WASNT IN HALO: CE".

  • 10.01.2009 10:12 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: patato chip

The fundemental problem lies in the BR's effetiveness.





I would argue that the fundamental problem with the BR is the INEFFECTIVENESS of all the other weapons. This makes the BR work well at all ranges against other guns. Unlike in Halo: CE, where the Pistol dominated at mid-range, but guns like the AR, Plasma Rifle, and Shotgun were so effective up close that it was worthless in CQC against a good player. The BR is good in close quarters while also dominating mid-range. This is because Bungie decided to make like 8 different niches within the CQC niche itself, thus limiting the effectiveness of all those weapons outside of their tiny intended niche.

  • 10.01.2009 10:18 AM PDT

ok then havoc fair enough..forgetting about the facts ive stated lets talk about the ballance.nopw the BR is a balanced weapon in its entity.its not so good close range its good long range and perfect mid range.its also not overpowered seeing as ittakes a minimum of 4 shots to kill someone in a pure 1v1 BR fight.it is effective and it is balanced

But it may be blanced as a single weapon but its not balanced as a whole becuase it dominates the game.do you think bungie will throw in the BR knwoing full well that it will dominate reach.without a doubt if it is in reach it WILL dominate the gameplay.

so veterans come into it they grab a BR starting with fresh stats etc..basicly a new acount -blam!- people get there 50 in a matter of days.

this is a brand new game that i think people should all start on equal ground not having an advantage..sure yopu cant take away the mexperience such as usuing your head to outsmart the oponant but take away the key factor in halo 3's matchmaking today(The BR) and everyone is put on level ground essentialy making the game.more balanced

  • 10.01.2009 10:20 AM PDT
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but havoc is right it was introuced in harvest but they did say itc was a prototype and that means not many were produced even though it was made on reach doesnt mean it should be in reach for the fact that it 1 wasnt mass produced. 2 was probally mad off-site at on reach and 3 scattared because of the whole reach situation

  • 10.01.2009 10:34 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: CrymzenAssassin
ok then havoc fair enough..forgetting about the facts ive stated lets talk about the ballance.nopw the BR is a balanced weapon in its entity.its not so good close range its good long range and perfect mid range.its also not overpowered seeing as ittakes a minimum of 4 shots to kill someone in a pure 1v1 BR fight.it is effective and it is balanced

But it may be blanced as a single weapon but its not balanced as a whole becuase it dominates the game.do you think bungie will throw in the BR knwoing full well that it will dominate reach.without a doubt if it is in reach it WILL dominate the gameplay.

so veterans come into it they grab a BR starting with fresh stats etc..basicly a new acount -blam!- people get there 50 in a matter of days.

this is a brand new game that i think people should all start on equal ground not having an advantage..sure yopu cant take away the mexperience such as usuing your head to outsmart the oponant but take away the key factor in halo 3's matchmaking today(The BR) and everyone is put on level ground essentialy making the game.more balanced


You actually think this game would function well without the BR? the problem, as I've stated above, is not the BR.

None of the CQC weapons promote precision and aiming skill very much. They promote melee. The game would be balanced, yes. It would also be primarily a huge CQC melee fest. Might as well go play Street Fighter. There would almost no skill gap. At higher levels, the game would entirely divulge into who could get the power weapons first.

I would actually love it if they got rid of the BR to replace it with a better mid-range weapon(the M6D), and then strengthened the other weapons in the game. Make automatic weapons have headshot modifiers. Even if its not a one headshot kill, at least reward someone for being able to hit a smaller target.

The problem with Halo has not been the BR, its been the awful thing they've done to CQC. Its become extremely watered down(putting 12 CQC weapons in a game does not instantly make the CQC more exciting). CQC in this game is essentially who shot first. melee in this game is who had more health and if its close no one wins. Its just awful and has virtually no skill gap.

When I first shot the ODST SMG, a thought popped into my head. It was the first time Bungie had thrown us an automatic weapon that has some accuracy. If that gun was headshot capable, suddenly you have a weapon that works best at CQC, that can counter the BR at mid-range, while still being at a disadvantage.

This game has become "what gun do I have". Not "Who has more skill". You put a Level 35 in an open room that is about the size of mid-range, he has a BR and I have an AR, and have us fight. I'm going to lose. No matter how much more skill I have. Thats a flaw. The AR should work best close range, but actually be somewhat functional outside of it, albeit incredibly hard to use.

That is balance. A SHOOTER based on who SHOOTS best. Melee, grenading, and spray and pray have become to prevalent in this game. Your solution would only increase that. Your entire theory of removing the BR is based on no changes to the other weapons. But the BR is actually a well designed weapon for a medium paced FPS. Its the other weapons that are poorly designed. And that is why Halo: CE remains the best game in this series. Halo3 has more weapons, sure, but CE had much better weapon balance, although it would be improved even more with the ideas I mentioned above, because the main problem with CEs balance was that the Pistol had no counter at mid-range. I'm proposing to fix that.

  • 10.01.2009 10:37 AM PDT

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My biggest problem with the BR, and most of the weapons in general is the incredible amount of aim assist it has. I can't count how many times I've been in a BR duel with someone, about to put the last burst on their head when one of their teammate crosses behind/front of them dragging my reticule with them. That I find annoying. I think turning down the aim assist on the BR and all weapons would make a huge difference. I'm not saying turn aim assist off (even though I think there should be an option to do so) just tone it down some.

  • 10.01.2009 10:44 AM PDT

You say goodbye, and I say good riddance.

Posted by: HaVOk1228
Posted by: patato chip

The fundemental problem lies in the BR's effetiveness.





I would argue that the fundamental problem with the BR is the INEFFECTIVENESS of all the other weapons. This makes the BR work well at all ranges against other guns. Unlike in Halo: CE, where the Pistol dominated at mid-range, but guns like the AR, Plasma Rifle, and Shotgun were so effective up close that it was worthless in CQC against a good player. The BR is good in close quarters while also dominating mid-range. This is because Bungie decided to make like 8 different niches within the CQC niche itself, thus limiting the effectiveness of all those weapons outside of their tiny intended niche.

If all of the other guns are ineffective, doesn't that make the Br effetive? Wording ftw!

Anyway, yours is the point I was trying to get across. There are just too many circumstances in which the BR overpowers the other weapons.

I tend to see it like this: If everyone has a favorite weapon, you're doing something right. If everyone has the SAME favorite weapon, you're doing something wrong.

  • 10.01.2009 10:47 AM PDT

well yeah i see what your saying about CQC i understand that.im not saying the BR is not gonna be in reach and im not saying it is going to be in reach.

yes taking the BR out would make it a complete melee fest that requires no skill but on the other hand keeping the BR in would make it stay as it is today wich im pretty sure alot of people are getting fed up with.

i love the BR i realy do.my main TOD in both social and ranked is in fact the BR and if they do get rid of it i will want something as a replacement

the BR does have a counter weapon in the carbine..it woks the same way it just doesnt have a spread and only fires 1 shot at a time.but its rapid fire so they are equal in my opinion

isnt it 7 shots with a carbine and 4-5 with a br for a kill? but take into acount that the br fires 3 bullets per burst so firing off 4-5 shots is firing 12-15 bullets

so to get a kill with the BR atleast 2 of the bullets per burst have to have direct contact where as with the carbine if u fire a shot and it hits theres no 2 out of 3 about it its a direct hit and 7 of them make itan instant kill wich in my opinion makes a petrfect mid to lng rane counter weapon for the BR

  • 10.01.2009 10:49 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: CrymzenAssassin
well yeah i see what your saying about CQC i understand that.im not saying the BR is not gonna be in reach and im not saying it is going to be in reach.

yes taking the BR out would make it a complete melee fest that requires no skill but on the other hand keeping the BR in would make it stay as it is today wich im pretty sure alot of people are getting fed up with.

i love the BR i realy do.my main TOD in both social and ranked is in fact the BR and if they do get rid of it i will want something as a replacement

the BR does have a counter weapon in the carbine..it woks the same way it just doesnt have a spread and only fires 1 shot at a time.but its rapid fire so they are equal in my opinion

isnt it 7 shots with a carbine and 4-5 with a br for a kill? but take into acount that the br fires 3 bullets per burst so firing off 4-5 shots is firing 12-15 bullets

so to get a kill with the BR atleast 2 of the bullets per burst have to have direct contact where as with the carbine if u fire a shot and it hits theres no 2 out of 3 about it its a direct hit and 7 of them make itan instant kill wich in my opinion makes a petrfect mid to lng rane counter weapon for the BR


Yes, the Carbine counters it, but that wasn't the point. They are pretty much human v Covenant counter parts. Aside from how they look, they serve the same purpose. I am talking about how guns that serve a purpose different than the BR(like the SMG or AR), should still have the ability to counter the BR, even at mid-range, its just much harder.

Its kind of like the BR v Sniper relationship. The BR has the advantage at mid-range, the snipe at long. However, if you are skillful enough, you can counter the Snipe at long range with your BR, and vice versa.

This relationship does not exist between the CQC weapons and the BR and carbine, at least not both ways. The Br and carbine can counter the AR at close range(a 4 shot is a faster kill than the AR can manage w/o melee), but if you have an AR against a BR at mid-range, you are hopeless. So the problem therein lies with the CQC weapons, and actually first arose as a result of dual-wielding, because Bungie wanted you to be able to hold two weapons so they couldn't make one of them have that much power or two of them would dominate.

  • 10.01.2009 11:01 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: patato chip
Posted by: HaVOk1228
Posted by: patato chip

The fundemental problem lies in the BR's effetiveness.





I would argue that the fundamental problem with the BR is the INEFFECTIVENESS of all the other weapons. This makes the BR work well at all ranges against other guns. Unlike in Halo: CE, where the Pistol dominated at mid-range, but guns like the AR, Plasma Rifle, and Shotgun were so effective up close that it was worthless in CQC against a good player. The BR is good in close quarters while also dominating mid-range. This is because Bungie decided to make like 8 different niches within the CQC niche itself, thus limiting the effectiveness of all those weapons outside of their tiny intended niche.

If all of the other guns are ineffective, doesn't that make the Br effetive? Wording ftw!

Anyway, yours is the point I was trying to get across. There are just too many circumstances in which the BR overpowers the other weapons.

I tend to see it like this: If everyone has a favorite weapon, you're doing something right. If everyone has the SAME favorite weapon, you're doing something wrong.


Both phrases essentially say the same thing but imply different solutions.

The BR is too effective=BR needs to be toned down to be more balanced with the other weapons

The other weapons are ineffective=they need to be vamped up to counter the BR.

but obviously we understand the problem equally.

  • 10.01.2009 11:03 AM PDT

Posted by: C Dirty 4
Reach essentially has put the "I" in "Team".


Remember, the enemy's gate is down

Posted by: lolzinyogrill
the Br is too powerful, its an op piece of -blam!-. Although I use it all the time because it is an op piece of -blam!-. Need to decrease damage, Decrease its damage vs Shields. It shouldnt rip through shields like a plasma rifle.

In fact, If they would just reduce the amount of damage it does to shields by even a little bit it would increase gameplay dramatically and cause players to use a more variety of weapons. If the BR was as powerful as they keep making it theres no way covenant would have glassed or controlled any of our planets.


That would also slow up the gameplay even more and put EVEN MORE focus on meleeing and grenading. Cmon now. You need to think about how changing a gun will affect the game as a whole, not just how it is in relation to the other weapons.

  • 10.01.2009 11:38 AM PDT

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