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  • Subject: The Class System : the new way to play
Subject: The Class System : the new way to play

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Like it is brought up over and over again on almost every forum of Halo 2 - Halo Reach, I am proposing a new way of The Class System. Which if you don't know what that is, it's where there is different types of factions with different advantages and dis-advantages. Also I believe to be right when I say that things should go by the books, which means no changing of the natural being as the species should be (no slumped Elites or Brutes to make them the same height as Spartans).

Spartans : Spartans have natural night vision, shields, motion trackers, and can lift stuff way bigger than them, and if that can happen then why are they struggling with two SMGs? That needs fixing. Also at one time while testing the Mjolnir armor, the Chief used his shields as force field skates to move across a mine field, this option seems rather fun, to adjust your shields to a certain place like your head, so you can withstand a sniper shot, or to your arm, for a super punch (but drops weapon because of shields). Also medium health after shields die.

Elites : Elites have Active Camo, a little less powerful shields than the Spartans, motion trackers, and are as strong as the Spartans. Like I said, they need to be as tall as they were in Halo : CE, can't have the hunched over and short Elites in Halo 3. Also minimum health when shields die.

Brutes : Brutes have lots of health, motion trackers ( assumeing ), can jump really high, can go berserk, and have same strength as Elites and Spartans. Brutes have no camo, yes we have seen them before on Halo 3, but HELLO?! It's Reach we are playing! The brutes must also be a little taller than the Elites.

This is Match Making and multiplayer, by the way.

Please post what you think but don't flame for no raisin, thank you.

  • 10.06.2009 6:39 PM PDT

Group invites will be treated very poorly because the Care Package is empty.

__/
|__|

YES!

Strain my eyes while trying to shoot the shimmer of something in the environment because everybody picks Elites.

  • 10.06.2009 6:40 PM PDT
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well what about putting that in custom game options
and a matchmaking play list for this.

I wouldn't mind this

  • 10.06.2009 6:42 PM PDT

But since I am human, I am good and bad as well. But I try my hardest to stay good. And some of the things I do and say may be bad. Or just not too good, but I do try.

So with that said I dont fault you. I mean your only human, good or bad. But I also dont respect you, and I dont care if thats good or bad haha.

-blam!- if you understand me.
I love being misunderstood.

I like this idea, I've read the books and it should stick by them

  • 10.06.2009 6:43 PM PDT

It would be cool if they introduced some along the lines of perks like in the COD Series. Also choosing a race. Like a grunt with a Jackal shield or something creative.

  • 10.06.2009 6:44 PM PDT
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I like the idea and hope they implement this in someway into the game it gets boring when a game has little to no skill level to play i think that will add that

also some people will not take kindly to this idea I would change the title of the thread just so people skip over it just because it says class

  • 10.06.2009 6:49 PM PDT

The soul of Halo and class systems don't really mix well.

Halo 3 has survived and been massively popular because it caters to nearly any playing crowd. Want to play the game the way it was made? You can do that. Want to race mongooses? Build a track in forge, create a custom gametype for that. Want to play a hardcore professional gametype? Build an arena in forge, create a custom gametype for that. Want to take videos of spartans running for their lives from a rolling exploding elephant that is coming to kill them? You can do that too.

But what happens when you make reach a class based game? How do you make grifball games with a class based system? And its not so simple as creating options that limits everyone to one class that all spawn the same way to "mimic" the way Halo 3 worked because the weaponset for a class based game is very different than the weaponset for a halo-like first person shooter and are balanced in completely different ways.

For example, if Halo 3 were to become class based, everyone would either be the sniper so they could spawn with the sniper rifle after every death or the engineer class because they would have the rockets and the shotgun. How would you play capture the flag like that? Halo 3's weapon set was not balanced to be instantly turned into class-based.

So we have three choices. Piss off all the people who liked Halo for being very customizable and make a class based game, try to compromise and essentially program two multiplayer games, or just stick to halo's core and not include any class based nonsense because Halo doesn't need to compete with the other class based games to be successful.

[Edited on 10.06.2009 6:54 PM PDT]

  • 10.06.2009 6:54 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Brutes are about the same size as Spartans already.

  • 10.06.2009 6:57 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hylebos
The soul of Halo and class systems don't really mix well.

Halo 3 has survived and been massively popular because it caters to nearly any playing crowd. Want to play the game the way it was made? You can do that. Want to race mongooses? Build a track in forge, create a custom gametype for that. Want to play a hardcore professional gametype? Build an arena in forge, create a custom gametype for that. Want to take videos of spartans running for their lives from a rolling exploding elephant that is coming to kill them? You can do that too.

But what happens when you make reach a class based game? How do you make grifball games with a class based system? And its not so simple as creating options that limits everyone to one class that all spawn the same way to "mimic" the way Halo 3 worked because the weaponset for a class based game is very different than the weaponset for a halo-like first person shooter and are balanced in completely different ways.

For example, if Halo 3 were to become class based, everyone would either be the sniper so they could spawn with the sniper rifle after every death or the engineer class because they would have the rockets and the shotgun. How would you play capture the flag like that? Halo 3's weapon set was not balanced to be instantly turned into class-based.

So we have three choices. Piss off all the people who liked Halo for being very customizable and make a class based game, try to compromise and essentially program two multiplayer games, or just stick to halo's core and not include any class based nonsense because Halo doesn't need to compete with the other class based games to be successful.

  • 10.06.2009 7:03 PM PDT
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Btw - polls on bungie.net mean absolutely nothing, so please don't use them to try and prove some kind of point.

~Achronos

I like all of this but only in additon to the current gameplay. Basically the game needs to let us play like how you describe, but still be able to play it like it is now where we all have teh same things.

  • 10.06.2009 7:08 PM PDT
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Posted by: Hylebos
For example, if Halo 3 were to become class based, everyone would either be the sniper so they could spawn with the sniper rifle after every death or the engineer class because they would have the rockets and the shotgun. How would you play capture the flag like that? Halo 3's weapon set was not balanced to be instantly turned into class-based.

So we have three choices. Piss off all the people who liked Halo for being very customizable and make a class based game, try to compromise and essentially program two multiplayer games, or just stick to halo's core and not include any class based nonsense because Halo doesn't need to compete with the other class based games to be successful.
Halo Reach is not Halo 3, Halo Reach is Halo Reach. If it's a class-based game (like Team Fortress, not Call of Duty), I'm sure they would think of ways to balance them.

[Edited on 10.06.2009 7:13 PM PDT]

  • 10.06.2009 7:11 PM PDT
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I like class systems. I remember playing the original Team Fortress as well as Tribes, way back in the 90s. However, there is already enough to worry about in terms of balance with weapons, spawns, and the minute character differences. To make something different, yet fair (like asymmetrical maps) is pretty hard to do. Granted, it would be fun, but ranked isn't where you want fun over fair. Nevertheless, if they would go with this, here are some suggestions to fix some of your ideas, or some thoughts to flesh out:

1. Do you get to choose your class prior to the game, or are you randomly assigned the class? There could definitely be issues either way, but this is something to think about.

2. It seems like you are jacking the spartans up. They have a smaller hit zone, focused shields, a medium sized amount of health, night vision, and motion tracker? The only thing the elite has that ISN'T worse is camo. They're a larger target, have less health, don't have night vision, etc. Invis is cool, but they show up on radar anyway, and I presume the camo would run out, like it did in H2 campaign. However, as a fan of invis, I could appreciate it's huge advantages. However, what is advantageous about the Brutes at all? They would suck. Like I said, maybe you just didn't give all the details, but that's just a first look.

3. I propose that it isn't just spartans vs. elites in MP, but rather each player chooses individually and takes that model into the game. This would help out a lot with point number 4 I will make below. There could be race specific playlists, but that would make the MM system hard if all the high levels preferred one race due to some advantage. There'd be a group of people who you'd never play.

Maybe some of this is because I'm not clear, so I'll try to stick with your ideas, but tweak them and flesh them out a little.

1. Spartan: Everything you've proposed

2. Elite: Camo for 15 seconds on 30 second recharge - More shields, less health, about a foot or two taller, larger heads, a little bit faster. (for shields and health, I figure that the race's weapons reflect their strength. Elites have shield tearing weapons, therefore their shields must be strong. Likewise with Spartans and health. Therefore you balance out strengths and weaknesses).

3. Brutes: Significantly more health and more shields. They are significantly stronger than the other characters, meaning they do better with melee (almost one hit kills). They are a bit slower than spartans, and significantly slower than elites. They can throw grenades farther.

4. Each group should have bonuses for their weapons. Elite do more damage with plasma, humans with bullets, Brutes with brute weapons (meaning one hit melee kills with bladed spikers, brute shots, etc) etc. This would mean that the elites would do well with shield draining weapons, humans with health depleting weapons, etc. That would make who you decide to fight interesting.

That's just a proposal. I'm sure there would still be some issues. Let me know what you think.

[EDIT] TO the guy who thinks everyone would just be the sniper, I agree. However, in COD it was actually disadvantageous to be the sniper, as all the other guns are pretty much just as good. Halo, however, would be boring and broken if choosing your class meant choosing your weapon. But as the OP and I have shown, this is more to do with attributes of race rather than choosing your weapon. I think keeping Halo the way it is by finding powerups and weapons is good. That being said, there are many weapons that never get used, and changing attributes and weapons could help to make the game more interesting.

[Edited on 10.06.2009 7:17 PM PDT]

  • 10.06.2009 7:11 PM PDT

Posted by: Hylebos
The soul of Halo and class systems don't really mix well.

Halo 3 has survived and been massively popular because it caters to nearly any playing crowd. Want to play the game the way it was made? You can do that. Want to race mongooses? Build a track in forge, create a custom gametype for that. Want to play a hardcore professional gametype? Build an arena in forge, create a custom gametype for that. Want to take videos of spartans running for their lives from a rolling exploding elephant that is coming to kill them? You can do that too.

But what happens when you make reach a class based game? How do you make grifball games with a class based system? And its not so simple as creating options that limits everyone to one class that all spawn the same way to "mimic" the way Halo 3 worked because the weaponset for a class based game is very different than the weaponset for a halo-like first person shooter and are balanced in completely different ways.

For example, if Halo 3 were to become class based, everyone would either be the sniper so they could spawn with the sniper rifle after every death or the engineer class because they would have the rockets and the shotgun. How would you play capture the flag like that? Halo 3's weapon set was not balanced to be instantly turned into class-based.

So we have three choices. Piss off all the people who liked Halo for being very customizable and make a class based game, try to compromise and essentially program two multiplayer games, or just stick to halo's core and not include any class based nonsense because Halo doesn't need to compete with the other class based games to be successful.

  • 10.06.2009 7:14 PM PDT

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Posted by: EldritchWarlord
Brutes are about the same size as Spartans already.


In the games, yes, in the books the way they are supposed to be, no. Spartans are 7 ft, Elites about 9 ft, and Brutes are a little larger than Elites.

  • 10.06.2009 7:14 PM PDT

-I was here

Posted by: nyctrimly1234
It would be cool if they introduced some along the lines of perks like in the COD Series. Also choosing a race. Like a grunt with a Jackal shield or something creative.

this isn't WoW, we don't need night elf mohawks and -blam!- like that running around. so, the regular spartans and elites are fine(maybe brutes too)

  • 10.06.2009 7:16 PM PDT

I belive there should only be disadvantages and advantages to playing as certain races. Like for instance if your playing as an Elite, Active Camo should last longer and Duel Weilding Energy Swords should be possible. Elites should also have a more artistic flare for things like boarding animations and Sword fighting (kinda like the Elite backflip kick when boarding Prowler turrets.

There should also be drawbacks like Brutes must be closer to vehicles to board them because of there slower aglility due to there size.

Choosing your weapon from pre-determined classes is garbage in my opionon. The ultimate way to work for power weapons is to engage player directly for them.

Unlike COD where you just play as a class that has MP40, Stopping Power, and Steady Aim, which instantly creates an overpowered noob class.

  • 10.06.2009 7:24 PM PDT

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Posted by: fifthderelicte
I like class systems. I remember playing the original Team Fortress as well as Tribes, way back in the 90s. However, there is already enough to worry about in terms of balance with weapons, spawns, and the minute character differences. To make something different, yet fair (like asymmetrical maps) is pretty hard to do. Granted, it would be fun, but ranked isn't where you want fun over fair. Nevertheless, if they would go with this, here are some suggestions to fix some of your ideas, or some thoughts to flesh out:

1. Do you get to choose your class prior to the game, or are you randomly assigned the class? There could definitely be issues either way, but this is something to think about.

2. It seems like you are jacking the spartans up. They have a smaller hit zone, focused shields, a medium sized amount of health, night vision, and motion tracker? The only thing the elite has that ISN'T worse is camo. They're a larger target, have less health, don't have night vision, etc. Invis is cool, but they show up on radar anyway, and I presume the camo would run out, like it did in H2 campaign. However, as a fan of invis, I could appreciate it's huge advantages. However, what is advantageous about the Brutes at all? They would suck. Like I said, maybe you just didn't give all the details, but that's just a first look.

3. I propose that it isn't just spartans vs. elites in MP, but rather each player chooses individually and takes that model into the game. This would help out a lot with point number 4 I will make below. There could be race specific playlists, but that would make the MM system hard if all the high levels preferred one race due to some advantage. There'd be a group of people who you'd never play.

Maybe some of this is because I'm not clear, so I'll try to stick with your ideas, but tweak them and flesh them out a little.

1. Spartan: Everything you've proposed

2. Elite: Camo for 15 seconds on 30 second recharge - More shields, less health, about a foot or two taller, larger heads, a little bit faster. (for shields and health, I figure that the race's weapons reflect their strength. Elites have shield tearing weapons, therefore their shields must be strong. Likewise with Spartans and health. Therefore you balance out strengths and weaknesses).

3. Brutes: Significantly more health and more shields. They are significantly stronger than the other characters, meaning they do better with melee (almost one hit kills). They are a bit slower than spartans, and significantly slower than elites. They can throw grenades farther.

4. Each group should have bonuses for their weapons. Elite do more damage with plasma, humans with bullets, Brutes with brute weapons (meaning one hit melee kills with bladed spikers, brute shots, etc) etc. This would mean that the elites would do well with shield draining weapons, humans with health depleting weapons, etc. That would make who you decide to fight interesting.

That's just a proposal. I'm sure there would still be some issues. Let me know what you think.

[EDIT] TO the guy who thinks everyone would just be the sniper, I agree. However, in COD it was actually disadvantageous to be the sniper, as all the other guns are pretty much just as good. Halo, however, would be boring and broken if choosing your class meant choosing your weapon. But as the OP and I have shown, this is more to do with attributes of race rather than choosing your weapon. I think keeping Halo the way it is by finding powerups and weapons is good. That being said, there are many weapons that never get used, and changing attributes and weapons could help to make the game more interesting.


You, sir/ma 'am, now have my thanks.

  • 10.06.2009 7:40 PM PDT

Posted by: AK 47625714
Posted by: Hylebos
For example, if Halo 3 were to become class based, everyone would either be the sniper so they could spawn with the sniper rifle after every death or the engineer class because they would have the rockets and the shotgun. How would you play capture the flag like that? Halo 3's weapon set was not balanced to be instantly turned into class-based.

So we have three choices. Piss off all the people who liked Halo for being very customizable and make a class based game, try to compromise and essentially program two multiplayer games, or just stick to halo's core and not include any class based nonsense because Halo doesn't need to compete with the other class based games to be successful.
Halo Reach is not Halo 3, Halo Reach is Halo Reach. If it's a class-based game (like Team Fortress, not Call of Duty), I'm sure they would think of ways to balance them.


To be fair, the first paragraph is to prove this point in the previous paragraph:

Posted by: Hylebos
And its not so simple as creating options that limits everyone to one class that all spawn the same way to "mimic" the way Halo 3 worked because the weaponset for a class based game is very different than the weaponset for a halo-like first person shooter and are balanced in completely different ways.


Of course Bungie can balance a set of weapons so they work in a class based game. But that set of weapons in turn can't be stuck into a Halo 3 style match and be expected to work either. Thats the point I'm trying to make.

  • 10.06.2009 7:47 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Hey buddy, Do me a favor. List off a couple popular class based shooters.

Rainbow Six Vegas.
Call of Duty.
Team Fortress
Battle Field
etc...

Now name off a couple popular FPS's like Halo?
-Halo.


When I get bored of Halo (Rarely) I pop in CoD for a bit, and once I'm tired of classes I go back to Halo.

But what happens when the gaming market is filled with nothing but class based shooters? Halo is different, that's why it's successful. Some will say, "Halo is just like quake" But look at Halo, it's one of the last popular genres of it's kind. I don't want to be forced to play nothing but class based games.

  • 10.06.2009 8:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
Hey buddy, Do me a favor. List off a couple popular class based shooters.

Rainbow Six Vegas.
Call of Duty.
Team Fortress
Battle Field
etc...

Now name off a couple popular FPS's like Halo?
-Halo.


When I get bored of Halo (Rarely) I pop in CoD for a bit, and once I'm tired of classes I go back to Halo.

But what happens when the gaming market is filled with nothing but class based shooters? Halo is different, that's why it's successful. Some will say, "Halo is just like quake" But look at Halo, it's one of the last popular genres of it's kind. I don't want to be forced to play nothing but class based games.


I absolutely love Halo as is too. However, I think class based games add a lot of longevity to a game. Bungie has figured out how to do that with playlists and it's awesome. However, I don't think you can discount a class based shooter for Halo.

You misunderstand the direction this can go (at least the direction I was foreseeing). As far as games like COD and BF, the games are classed by the weapons and equipment your given (as far as I understand). However, the discussions here keep Halo playing the way it is in terms of having to set up map control, find power weapons, etc. What changes is not what weapons you start with, but rather the base character attributes you start with. This does affect what weapons you WANT, but not what weapons you start with.

The best game I've ever played was Tribes. It was a class based system, and the weapons you could use were sometimes based upon your class. However, it was also the base character traits that were changed. It was significantly different than simple class based shooters of today (with a few exceptions) in that it used the class system not just to promote the use of one weapon. With the implementation I see in my above post, I see it more as being the same game, but providing different tactics (like equipment can change a game).

  • 10.06.2009 8:09 PM PDT