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Posted by: RELLIK PIR[/quote]
1 lets get something clear here. Should a CE pistol weapon be in Halo.. Should a skilled I mean really skilled player be able to dominate all non powerweapons? You answer should answer my R.P.S. problem. RPS is what a lot of BKs want so I may have jumped the gun when reading what you said.
Yes, Halo should have a solid mid-range option, whether pistol or rifle. The issue about a skilled player being able to use it to dominate all non-power weapons is entirely too dependant on the individuals involved and the situation they are in. In the same way that a shotty shouldn't work effectively outside of close range, a mid-range weapon should not dominate up close in typical circumstnaces.
2. I don't think I am disagreeing with the BR being to easy and a different weapon could take its place that is harder to use but as with HCE the pistol was a tool of the gods in the right hands so you don't have a problem with that just a problem with how easy it is to use?
The reason it is used by MLG is... What else is there? We wanted the CE pistol carbine and BR as options. Bungie gave us the H3 random noob BR. MLG players aren't delusional like that. Just bungie and B.net kids who are mad because their bad. We only get mad if we can't get better in which case we become B.net mad because we are bad.
I see what you are saying in regards to MLG, but you cannot honestly believe that the BR is used primarily simply because it is present. The Carbine, is in fact a better weapon, but requires a much more steady hand to be accurate and effective with it, but people gravitate towards the BR due to it's simplicity. The BR's simplicity is coupled with it's effective range, they go hand in hand. If it were less effective in the short and long range, it would inherently be harder to use, this is what I, as well as many believe would balance out the BR.
3. No matter what, I think all skill ranges want more weapons to be more useful. MLG just want a couple that kill quickly ,consistently, and take skill. Unless bungie separates the game into the MLG crowd and everyone else those weapons will mix and if weapons like the SMG, AR, spiker rifle don't get revamped like the ODST smg, we will be back at this because BKS will still -blam!- because some other kid was killing them with the overpowered weapon that they suck to much to use.
While you may not be one of them MOST people complain because they get destroyed by the BR not for any quantifiable reason.
Again I understand what you are saying here, but there is a big difference between losing to someone that is actually better than you, and losing to someone simply because you do not prefer the "easy kill". In Halo2, I hated the prospect of the PP/BR, combo, couldn't stand it. It was too damn easy I thought it was the weakest freaking way to score a kill, but it was also the easiest and most effective, and thus people did it en masse. Therefore if you don't prefer the "easy way" you are at a disadvantage to those that do, based on a weapon, not skill.
Example, if I play a game of snipers, and get completely embarrased by people who are great snipers, then that is not an issue of a weapons inbalance, that is an issue of me getting my ass handed to me by a better player (typically anyway). Now you take slayer, if I prefer (hypothetically) to use an AR/shotty combo to cover a decent spectrum of encounters, and everyone else uses BR's and camps the firing lane's I will be at a disadvantage based on weapons, not skill.
While this type of thing is un-avoidable to some degree or another, the current BR makes the problem worse than it needs to be. There are always going to be some type of balance issues, but it doesn't need to be as bad as it is with the BR.
4. That is true. While the BR is somewhat noob friendly it is among the top weapons for skill requirments. Along with the Carbine Sniper and pistol. Even really bad kids can get lucky with the sniper and get kills that single skill won't raise their rank.
I agree with what you say here to a certain extent. Based on some of the things you have said here, I believe you would agree with me that the Carbine is harder to use than the BR correct? That being said it is in it's very nature of simplicity that the BR is imbalanced. That is not to say that a BR user is without skill, there will always be those that are more capable then others, but the BR makes it too easy to have that advantage.
5. Um ya it will reduce the skill curve even farther. So while most people will stay high ranks because they are better at the game period. BKs will get more kills on them because their isn't a weapon of skill & power to separate them. Don't talk about removing the BR. Talk about replacing it with a Carbine or CE pistol style weapon. It leaves a bad taste in the mouth since we have come to rely on the weapon so much because bungie keeps making 1 useful weapon and 12 useless ones.
Here is where I feel that you and I will more than likely never agree. Removing the BR will cause people to have to get better in terms of gameplay, it will not flatten the learning curve further, it will simply force those who have gotten where they are using the BR to actually get good at the game, not just 4-shoting.
Halo, since it's beginning has been about adaptive gameplay, the BR streamlined it significantly. While the Carbine or even the scoped pistol serve the same purpose, they are more limited than the BR by the simple nature that they are single fire weapons. By that token, if the BR was "gone" then you would notice a big change in the rankings as only the really "skilled" (or cheaters in some cases) would stay on top, and several players that have built a reliance on the the BR would have to relearn the game.
Being good is more than just whoring a weapon, it's gameplay, how you move, how you plan, how you attack and how you defend. The BR is instrumental to several of the most cheap and IMO boring tactics known to the game, spawn camping, spawn trapping, fire lane camping, etc. Some (the people that use it) call these things setting up, but most of these strategies would not be as strong or as common without the ease of use brought about the BR.
6. How would you lessen a weapons utility to a skilled player. I could make assumptions but it would be a waste of time. Please be clear how that would work. You say making it harder but that just means less people can utilize it not how useful the weapon can be. sniper is a long range weapon but it can kill at any range and beat any weapon.
In simplist terms, making it harder to use will make it less useful to most, that is true in nearly all things. There will certainly be the group of people that spend the time to get great with another weapon, and that's expected, but it shouldn't be made easy for them with something like the BR in it's current form.
Following along with your example of the sniper, at close range there are some that are capable of pulling off no-scopes consistently. This is a very very small group when compared against the rest of the herd. Now you take the BR, it is no small group of people that are capable of being consistently good at multiple range sets, it is slowly becomming the majorty due to Bungie forcing BR spawns. As the skilled player that you keep claiming to be, you should understand that making it more skill demanding, lessening it's utility, will in effect weaken it's fan-base. A truly skilled player will take the time to get good again, but most BR afficionado's (not just MLG and high rankers) have their "skill" due to their reliance on the BR itself. I have played with a wide range of players, both online and in LAN, and when we've played customes w/o certain weapons, specifically the BR, many of the "better" xbl players suffer, because they cannot thrive on much else.
7. All I have to say to that wall and I have said it before. We wanted the CE pistol We wanted the H2 preview rifle. We didn't want the BR. We use it by force not by choice.
Fair enough, but that being said why would you continue to want the BR that you yourself have called into question? Wouldn't it make more sense to refine the BR to be more focused? In essence you and I seem want similar things, we just have different reasons and beliefs behind it
I've responded to your list in italics above.