Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Multiplayer Issues to Address in Reach : Compilation
  • Subject: Multiplayer Issues to Address in Reach : Compilation
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2
Subject: Multiplayer Issues to Address in Reach : Compilation
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

So we all know there are a lot of issues we have heard about for the past few years. Reach is a chance for Bungie to work on some things. I'd like to compile a few of the issues here, rather than have them all over the place. If you have any ideas for change, put them here.

Movement

1. MLG definitely got this one right by bumping up the chief's speed to 110%. This makes it take more skill to hit targets, but it also encourages movement. Whereas you might be afraid to come out of a cave on Valhalla because you're so vulnerable and it takes you days to traverse the map, having things go a little faster creates more movement and willingness to move. Considering that Bungie generally makes fairly large maps, I think this is important, and could allow for even better 16 player maps and gameplay overall.

Equipment

1. As it stands, equipment like the regens and bubble shields are way too prevalent. There are several on most maps, and they respqn every minute. These cheaper pieces of equipment slow down gameplay and make it more random. Unlike power weapons which only have 1-2 on a map and long spawn times, these pieces of equipment cheapen gameplay.

2. With that being said, Bungie showed that it could do great things with equipment. The radar jammer was extremely tactical and very useful, if used properly. Idiots all over the forum complained because they were too dumb to use it properly, and hated that it hurt their own radar. Pair it with camo or wait until you're behind the lines and have an idea of enemy positions from your radar or team communication, THEN throw it. I'd love to see more tactical equipment as opposed to cheap and prevalent equipment.

Multiplayer

1. Bungie started to get it right with the addition of playlist ranks. People need a long term goal. However, I think adding long term achievements as well (like in GOW where they had 10,000 kills or something) would be a good thing to encourage consistent accounts as opposed to multi-accounters.

2. While I don't mind the trueskill system, as I think it does work fairly well, the fact that many impatient people and people who think they deserve it and take it into their hands to buy/create 50s or new accounts means it doesn't work so well. It's too easy to manipulate and too easy to get a high level. There should be more differentiation.

Weapon's Balance

1. Dual wielding is pretty much worthless with the AR and shotgun/sword. Either the AR spread needs to be tightened and reduced in power to allow for a dual wielding range, or dual wielding should be powered up.

Battle Rifle

1. Being a burst weapon is fine. Heck, we have automatic weapons in Halo. The problem with this burst weapon, however, is that it's headshot capable. Think about SWAT and how easy it is to get headshots on unshielded people as opposed to using a single magnum or carbine. BRs allow you to swipe shoot and it makes headshotting take 0 skill.

2. But what about all those times you're in an epic battle with someone because you can't get the headshot at the range you're at? Doesn't that mean it does take aim? Not at all. Just think about all the complaints about the BR's accuracy. It is random at all but the closest medium range situations (it starts to go at a distance from gold to in front of snipe on guardian). This randomness makes for imprecise battles and can cause the victor not to be the one with the most skill, but the one who got the lucky break.

3. Of course a lot of weapons work that way, and we don't want a sniper, right? Well, how many snipers take 12 bullets to kill? The BR and carbine are both intended to be medium/medium-long weapons. When you make the core weaponset (those weapons which control the map the best, but aren't power weapons - so you can find them more readily)random, it means that you are randomizing the most used guns in the game. When you do that, it means you downplay skill. So how can you make a core weapon be just that - a great map controlling weapon - but one that is not a sniper and overpowered? I'll tell you.

What needs to be done for a headshot capable, core weapon, is to not have burst, first of all. When that's completed, the accuracy needs to be bumped up to almost perfect. On top of that, the zoom may be toned down just a bit, or maybe kept the same. Think about how hard it would be to headshot someone across standoff, even if the BR accuracy was almost perfect. The lack of zoom on the reticule makes it harder to hit targets because you're not zoomed in. The same thing applies to any of you hunters out there. You know what I'm talking about, when you move from your 22 with the dinky scope to your 243 with the massive scope.

This will allow the BR to be a skilled, accurate core weapon, but it will actually make it harder to get headshots at range (you can't get lucky with a random burst), but doable with skill. This not only makes the gameplay much better and more consistent, but it makes the skill gap larger too, which would be great. Compare the amount of those in the 40s from H3 to H2. It's gross.

4. Finally, if you still think the BR would be like a sniper, think about this. If the BR were made to be single fire, you would then technically need 12 bullets to kill. I think that's a little too much, and should either bump up the rate of fire, or move it down to 8 shots to kill (same as carbine). The big thing with these tweaks are to play with the power and rate of fire to make the BR kill in the amount of time you want it to be able to kill (around the time it kills now). With this and the single shot implemented, you have to skillfully land 8-12 different shots, rather than allow the burst to help you get lucky (or unlucky) at times.

As it stands, the current BR is very used because it's a core weapon, it's powerful, and it's prevalent. However, it is a random, lucky, and easy weapon (in terms of HS anyway). They need to fix it to be a fine tuned, sklled, consistent weapon that will increase the skill gap. We need a core weapon, but it should not be the BR as it is now.

Posted by: sargent shade

Melee Balance
1. Since we have problems with guns not necessarily performing only in their niche, or superiorly in their niche, use melee to balance this out. Bungie has already incorporated some sense of this, as certain weapons do more melee damage than others. However, this is so minimal that it is rarely ever noticed. Weapons like the BR should do very smaller amounts of melee dmage compared to weapons like the shotgun which are intended for close quarters.


Other issues

There are plenty of other issues which I didn't address (i.e. health, host, aim assist, melee lunge, etc). Please feel free to respond to my comments or any other issues you think Bungie should address. REMEMBER, THERE ARE MORE ISSUES THAN THE BATTLE RIFLE! Thanks!

[Edit] Since I've received a source from one of the posters about a campaign link, I feel that it would be best to discuss campaign issues here. While I love campaign and would love for Bungie to make it long and replayable, there is already a huge thread on that, and I am personally more aware of the multiplayer needs.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 6:59 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2009 11:58 AM PDT
Subject: Issues to Address in Reach : Compilation

All you need is a well placed grenade :)

If your going to say a weapon is unfair in SWAT because of no shields your fail. Deal with it lol. The BR is fine, its noobies who cant aim who complain with it. Since HALO2 its been the best weapon and i doubt some bad complaints that it gets headshots after 2 games is going to change it now lol

and you say you dont like it to headshot but then want it to be a single shot super rigle with a good scope, you need to get prioritys right

[Edited on 10.08.2009 12:29 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2009 12:28 PM PDT

Oh, Death was never enemy of ours!
We laughed, knowing better men would come,
And greater wars: when each proud fighter brags
He wars on Death, for lives: not men, for flags.
"The Next War"

Mudknot, did you even read and absorb his post? He is not presenting the typical "BR is to hard to use" argument. It's the exact opposite. I, however, like the ideas here. If Bungie were to read this, they could easily implement some of your considerations into the new game. Good post, OP.

  • 10.08.2009 12:42 PM PDT

"Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
—Avery J. Johnson
click it you know you want to

Posted by: Saint Mudknot
If your going to say a weapon is unfair in SWAT because of no shields your fail. Deal with it lol. The BR is fine, its noobies who cant aim who complain with it. Since HALO2 its been the best weapon and i doubt some bad complaints that it gets headshots after 2 games is going to change it now lol

and you say you dont like it to headshot but then want it to be a single shot super rigle with a good scope, you need to get prioritys right

Your a noob for calling anyone who complains about your beloved weapon a noob. abd he said it should be burst with no headshot or single with a headshot bonus. i still prefer to take it out and bring the H1 pistol back in, that gun is really nice, although it could need to lose a scope or some power.

  • 10.08.2009 12:47 PM PDT
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Saint Mudknot
If your going to say a weapon is unfair in SWAT because of no shields your fail. Deal with it lol. The BR is fine, its noobies who cant aim who complain with it. Since HALO2 its been the best weapon and i doubt some bad complaints that it gets headshots after 2 games is going to change it now lol

and you say you dont like it to headshot but then want it to be a single shot super rigle with a good scope, you need to get prioritys right


People on this forum are just as dense now as they were when it started. Just because you're in love with your stupid BR. You know how I can tell you're a simple minded BR moron? Out of the whole post, you only pick out the BR section to respond to, and you don't come up with any solutions to anything, you just flame.

1. I never said it was unfair, I said it was lacking in skill. People still die from BRs not in SWAT too. My point was that it's too easy to use. A burst weapon that's headshot capable? Why not make the AR head shot capable?

2. I'm a noobie who can't aim because I argue for a weapon which would require more skill in aiming?

3. It's been the best weapon since H2 because it works at most ranges and because they took out the pistol. In H2 it actually wasn't that good until they toned it up. Furthermore, it was only better than the carbine because with BXR, the burst of bullets made the headshot at the end VERY easy. In H3, it's comparable to the carbine in speed, but you can't start with carbines and there are very few on maps. Furthermore, it's burst allows for easy headshots. I fail to see how because something is easy and powerful it is inherently good.

4. I'm complaining after only 2 games? I've played H3 off and on (until I get an xbox again in December) only for about 8-10 months and have compiled over 4,000 games. I know what I'm doing and if you can't tell by my status, I've been on here for quite some time. I've read a lot about this stuff and have played a lot.

5. I never said I don't like headshot capable weapons. Notice how I never said the sniper or carbine were bad. I don't want a "super rigle with a good scope." Making it more accurate would actually make it harder to aim. It's all or nothing. You have to be precise instead of allowing the burst to hit. Not only does this take more skill, but with the same scope OR A LESS POWERFUL SCOPE (please read what I said), even with accuracy it would be hard to hit a target at long distance. Once again, this means it would take more skill.

I think your problem is that you are in love with the BR and Bungie, and can't address an issue with intellect as opposed to emotion or ignorance. Read what I said, actually take the time to comprehend it, then address the issues. I don't care if you disagree with me, but I HATE it when you draw conclusions from your preconceived ideas and don't read what I said. Thanks.

[Edited on 10.08.2009 12:55 PM PDT]

  • 10.08.2009 12:53 PM PDT

Just another idea, but what if the BR had two separate modes of operation so it would take more skill to use, while still filling the core utility weapon role. Pull the trigger with a quick release gives you a precise single shot with headshot capability and a minor amount of recoil. Hold the trigger for the three-shot semi-randomized burst with a slightly longer period of time before another shot can be fired and more recoil with no ability of headshot kill.

  • 10.08.2009 1:45 PM PDT
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

Posted by: narb7long
Just another idea, but what if the BR had two separate modes of operation so it would take more skill to use, while still filling the core utility weapon role. Pull the trigger with a quick release gives you a precise single shot with headshot capability and a minor amount of recoil. Hold the trigger for the three-shot semi-randomized burst with a slightly longer period of time before another shot can be fired and more recoil with no ability of headshot kill.


I don't think that's a bad idea. I a few thoughts:

1. Make the change of mode a d pad button, as making it a trigger function could cause some issues where you intend one thing but produce another.

2. Whether or not you have this function, any single shot weapon you have based on speed of pulling the trigger can be modded with the special controllers. Do you think this should rule out a core weapon like this?

3. Would this be hard for the developers to have both HS capable and non HS capable ammo for the same weapon? Would it be hard to write that in or would it take up space or possibly cause glitches?

Thanks for your opinion and ideas.

  • 10.08.2009 2:01 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Hey fifth, how's it going? I got back on just for you. Anyway...

I agree with most of it, however, I think the multiplayer aspect is a lot more complicated. It doesn't really matter what they do, someone's going to mess it up. There are some good ideas of how to make it a little better - in theory. But idealism is different than realism. Sometimes you just have to be realistic. But I know you never are, which is ok. You can try to make it the best you can. Nothing wrong with that.

As far as the BR, I'm with you. However, I think you raised some valid points in your later post. Once again, we see idealism versus realism. You're very idealistic (yes, the BR should be tweaked), but you have to factor in realism (what loopholes will people find with the new BR). I'm not saying your solutions are wrong, I'm just saying that what seems right on the surface doesn't necessarily work with a group of people who are going to try to take advantage of whatever you give them. I think you have a great start for ideas, but it would be interesting to see what responses people give about the loopholes they foresee, or other fixes they can think of.

Keep in touch.

  • 10.09.2009 8:20 AM PDT

I can see what you mean...My thoughts on this would be:
1. If you use the d-pad for mode selection, I can see an interruption of the flow of movement, especially in situations where you need to strafe/jump/aim at the same time. Having this as a trigger function yes would cause some issues with intended purpose at first, but would create a nice "easy to learn", "hard to master" weapon. One of the things I always thought Halo was missing was alternate firing modes for the weapons (only one I know of is PP). It adds a nice amount of spice to encounters and variety in the depth.

2. Unfortunately...no matter how you design a sandbox, there are going to be people that like to play on the outside. Controller Mods are always going to be there...

3. I don't think it would be too difficult to design a weapon that was HS-capable in one mode and not in another. The PP strips armor quickly by charging, but has a different effect when quickly fired...this could be applied to the BR differently...there is no real ammo...its all 1's and 0's, if x do y. I have much faith Bungie could get that part to work.

I think even though Reach will be a prequel, its really a sequel as far as gameplay is concerned, which should be constantly improved on with each release, so there needs to be a balance between weapon time-line faithfulness (for the hardcore canon followers) and improvement in playability and depth.

  • 10.09.2009 8:27 AM PDT

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position that argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

Put simply in the words of Nietzsche as "the will to nothingness".

Posted by: narb7long
I can see what you mean...My thoughts on this would be:
1. If you use the d-pad for mode selection, I can see an interruption of the flow of movement, especially in situations where you need to strafe/jump/aim at the same time. Having this as a trigger function yes would cause some issues with intended purpose at first, but would create a nice "easy to learn", "hard to master" weapon. One of the things I always thought Halo was missing was alternate firing modes for the weapons (only one I know of is PP). It adds a nice amount of spice to encounters and variety in the depth.

2. Unfortunately...no matter how you design a sandbox, there are going to be people that like to play on the outside. Controller Mods are always going to be there...

3. I don't think it would be too difficult to design a weapon that was HS-capable in one mode and not in another. The PP strips armor quickly by charging, but has a different effect when quickly fired...this could be applied to the BR differently...there is no real ammo...its all 1's and 0's, if x do y. I have much faith Bungie could get that part to work.

I think even though Reach will be a prequel, its really a sequel as far as gameplay is concerned, which should be constantly improved on with each release, so there needs to be a balance between weapon time-line faithfulness (for the hardcore canon followers) and improvement in playability and depth.

I like this guys idea, although, have any of you seen the E3 Halo 2 demo where the BR fired in a burst when un-scoped and single fire while zoomed in?

  • 10.09.2009 8:39 AM PDT
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Nihilistic NG
Posted by: narb7long
I can see what you mean...My thoughts on this would be:
1. If you use the d-pad for mode selection, I can see an interruption of the flow of movement, especially in situations where you need to strafe/jump/aim at the same time. Having this as a trigger function yes would cause some issues with intended purpose at first, but would create a nice "easy to learn", "hard to master" weapon. One of the things I always thought Halo was missing was alternate firing modes for the weapons (only one I know of is PP). It adds a nice amount of spice to encounters and variety in the depth.

2. Unfortunately...no matter how you design a sandbox, there are going to be people that like to play on the outside. Controller Mods are always going to be there...

3. I don't think it would be too difficult to design a weapon that was HS-capable in one mode and not in another. The PP strips armor quickly by charging, but has a different effect when quickly fired...this could be applied to the BR differently...there is no real ammo...its all 1's and 0's, if x do y. I have much faith Bungie could get that part to work.

I think even though Reach will be a prequel, its really a sequel as far as gameplay is concerned, which should be constantly improved on with each release, so there needs to be a balance between weapon time-line faithfulness (for the hardcore canon followers) and improvement in playability and depth.

I like this guys idea, although, have any of you seen the E3 Halo 2 demo where the BR fired in a burst when un-scoped and single fire while zoomed in?


I definitely understand the issue with going to the d-pad, I just chose certainty over potentially smoother gameplay. But if they can make it consistent, I think it's a GREAT idea to give players another thing to master. I'm all about adding skill to this game and think it would be great.

That was also a very good point about the plasma pistol having two different functions and damage. I was just wondering about this because there was another discussion (unfortunately I forget what it was about) and somebody talked about coding and how adding in this extra stuff just cluttered it. But I think you're completely right. It's definitely doable and I think it could be done well. I know people would say that it doesn't make "logical" sense that one shot could HS but a bullet from a burst couldn't, but I think it would be way better for gameplay. It would be good for knocking out of scope at long range, but you couldn't get random headshots. Then if they toned the carbine up, you'd have two weapons with different niches and purposes.

  • 10.09.2009 8:57 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Yah, the E3 trailer showed the single shot BR ( check it out, at about 2:30 ). I like the feel of that a lot better, but they probably changed it to be different than the carbine. While I understand not wanting the exact same gun, I think they could make it different enough (like has been discussed in previous posts with other ideas) that it would be good. And even if it wasn't look at all the guns that are extremely similar in their purpose (sniper/beam, SMG/spiker, etc). It doesn't have to be that much different - or really different at all to fit in game.

  • 10.09.2009 9:01 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I'm going to point out a few nitpicks on the BR, not that I love it, I just disagree with some of your logic.

The BR, in all canon, is a 3 shot burst weapon. It has always had the 2x magnification. Even back on Harvest. Canonically, it was stuck in it's current state.

The BR, Cannot be a single shot weapon. Making it Single shot (As seen in the Halo 2 E3 video) Would essentially make it a Carbine, making the Covenant Carbine useless. We don't need more duplicate weapons.

The BR, Takes 12 Bullets to the head, to kill. That means that every single round, from all 4 bursts must make contact with the head. The BR can be grossly inaccurate, even at mid-range, where's it's supposed to be at its best. The First round will go where your reticle is, but the other two rounds just go in the same general direction. Unlike the Halo 2 BR, which had near perfect accuracy.

When you bring up the point, Why is the BR headshot weapon, it's because it's supposed to be an "Anti Sniper" as described by Bungie. It's supposed to have enough range to hit a sniper, and take it out of scope at a distance. You would need a precise weapon for that, which the BR moderately is.

Then, you bring up the question, "Why isn't the AR headshot based" Because it's an automatic weapon. The BR can fire 12 rounds in about 3 seconds. The AR can fire about 32 rounds, in 4 seconds. If the AR was a headshot weapon, the gameplay would be horrid, nobody would put it down. The ability to kill with one bullet to the head is reserved for precision weapons for the sake of gameplay.



I agree with most of your other points, I just wanted to throw my 2 cents about the BR out there.

  • 10.09.2009 9:07 AM PDT
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

Posted by: privet caboose
I'm going to point out a few nitpicks on the BR, not that I love it, I just disagree with some of your logic.

Thanks for being cordial, thoughtful, and honest.

Posted by: privet caboose
The BR, in all canon, is a 3 shot burst weapon. It has always had the 2x magnification. Even back on Harvest. Canonically, it was stuck in it's current state.

I'm unfamiliar with the Halo books, so thanks for keeping me on target. However, some of the ideas put forth would allow for it to be a burst weapon, but take away the HS capability. OR, something I just thought of since it's apparently doable to change bullet damage, make the last bullet only HS capable. I just don't think burst weapons are conducive to skill and the HS capability. Also, I'd love to hear if you have any ideas how to work on this then.

Posted by: privet caboose
The BR, Cannot be a single shot weapon. Making it Single shot (As seen in the Halo 2 E3 video) Would essentially make it a Carbine, making the Covenant Carbine useless. We don't need more duplicate weapons.

We don't need more, but it's very common to do in Halo. Almost everything (as was pointed out in a previous post) has duplicates. Also, we did recommend a single shot/burst shot hybrid so it would have functionality. Read the last few posts, if you have time. You could also mess with the power and rate of fire to make it different. If the carbine is a quick shooter, make the BR have a lot of power, single shot, but keep the ROF it has with the burst. Now it's still 4 shot, but single shot.

Posted by: privet caboose
The BR, Takes 12 Bullets to the head, to kill. That means that every single round, from all 4 bursts must make contact with the head. The BR can be grossly inaccurate, even at mid-range, where's it's supposed to be at its best. The First round will go where your reticle is, but the other two rounds just go in the same general direction. Unlike the Halo 2 BR, which had near perfect accuracy.

You're wrong on one thing here. only the final shot to the head counts. The same damage is always done to shields, no matter where you hit. I like the gameplay of H3 better with the BR the way it is to a certain extent. Because of the accuracy, magnetism, and burst of the BR in H2, it was grossly overpowered. Not only could you hit people from far away, but the finishing headshot was easy due to the burst and magnetism. H3 toned down the magnetism a lot, which would help, but they kept the burst.

Oh, and let me tell you that the way the H2 BR was set up, the burst was almost like a single shot weapon unless you were moving the reticule. The spread was so tight it was almost like shooting a carbine, but it was enough so that it made headshots too easy. I think the BR has a good range now due to it being a burst weapon, but I really think it shouldn't have HS capability. It's just too unskillful to get them.

Posted by: privet caboose
When you bring up the point, Why is the BR headshot weapon, it's because it's supposed to be an "Anti Sniper" as described by Bungie. It's supposed to have enough range to hit a sniper, and take it out of scope at a distance. You would need a precise weapon for that, which the BR moderately is.

I agree that it's to counter the sniper and give you a chance, but it's not meant to be able to defeat the sniper in the sniper's range. And what is meant by that is not at all meaning it should be headshot capable. What it means is that you should be able to ping the sniper out of scope, possibly kill him if he can't find cover or get a no scope on you fast enough, etc. Countering the sniper isn't found in headshot capability, but range and the ability to ping out of scope.

Posted by: privet caboose
Then, you bring up the question, "Why isn't the AR headshot based" Because it's an automatic weapon. The BR can fire 12 rounds in about 3 seconds. The AR can fire about 32 rounds, in 4 seconds. If the AR was a headshot weapon, the gameplay would be horrid, nobody would put it down. The ability to kill with one bullet to the head is reserved for precision weapons for the sake of gameplay.

I disagree that HS capability is reserved for precision weapons. The BR is rather imprecise, and so is the magnum at a range. Each weapon has an area in which they are quite precise. Yes, I know that the AR is automatic and I would hate gameplay with it being HS capable. That being said, I dislike the BR being HS capable because it is a weapon that shoots multiple bullets at the same time, all of which can hit the head and kill. ALL other weapons that are HS capable are single shot and take a carefully aimed shot to the head, as opposed to a swipe shot or a shot to the groin that hops up to the head. There is difference between the AR and BR, yes, but I still think the BR being HS capable is almost as ridiculous in its burst function. I have no problem with the BR being as is, until it gets to the headshots.

I appreciate your insight into the Halo books, and I would not want to change the BR if it strays from that in terms of burst fire (though it is hard for me to imagine that it wouldn't have a single fire option. Anyone else know of an instance in the books?). That being said, I think the HS capability could be tweaked, along with the ROF and power (bump it up just a little so even though it's not HS capable, it can be very useful at medium ranges and be a good anti-sniper). Thanks for your insights.





[Edited on 10.09.2009 9:34 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 9:33 AM PDT

THERE ARE MORE ISSUES THAN MULTIPLAYER!

Why do you tools only pretend like multiplayer is all that is important. It just seems that the halo community only cares about multiplayer, and wants every Halo game to be designed first and foremost as a multiplayer game and the campaign is just an afterthought. Screw that.

Every game mechanic, weapon, vehicle, etc. should be designed for campaign first, and then the multiplayer should be built to accomodate these mechanics, NOT the other way around which half of this forum seems to think.

  • 10.09.2009 9:38 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

1. In Harvest, The Prototype BR fired, 3 round bursts, I'm almost 10% positive. In First Strike, when the Spartans used a BR for the first time, they described it as "Accurate, 3 round bursts" I don't recall a single instance where it was single shot.

2. Nearly Every weapon has some differences from it's "Clone". IE: Sniper shots slow, and reloads, Beam Rifle shoots fast, but overheats. By making the BR single shot, you'd have to edit it substantially, or change the carbine. But since canonically we cannot change it, it's stuck in it's 3 burst state.

3.Load up a game, and shoot a guy in the chest, it takes about 7/8 bursts to kill. Now, if every round connects with the head, it should only take 4 bursts. IF all 12 rounds connect.

4. The BR should rarely defeat the sniper. If anything, it just barely hits the sniper to take it out of scope. A sniper standing on the base of valhalla for example. It is possible to hit him from the top of the center hill with a BR, but unless he stood still, killing him would take a great deal of time and effort.

5. The BR is the only "non-single shot precision weapon" but that's exactly what makes it unique. Take away the ability to land headshots, and you turn halo into a much more CQC game, where AR is the primary weapon. More Charging and Meleeing. Atleast with the BR you have to maintain a reticule on the Head for it to be effective.

  • 10.09.2009 9:45 AM PDT
  • gamertag: BJRSCJ
  • user homepage:

Posted by: privet caboose
1. In Harvest, The Prototype BR fired, 3 round bursts, I'm almost 10% positive. In First Strike, when the Spartans used a BR for the first time, they described it as "Accurate, 3 round bursts" I don't recall a single instance where it was single shot.

2. Nearly Every weapon has some differences from it's "Clone". IE: Sniper shots slow, and reloads, Beam Rifle shoots fast, but overheats. By making the BR single shot, you'd have to edit it substantially, or change the carbine. But since canonically we cannot change it, it's stuck in it's 3 burst state.

3.Load up a game, and shoot a guy in the chest, it takes about 7/8 bursts to kill. Now, if every round connects with the head, it should only take 4 bursts. IF all 12 rounds connect.

4. The BR should rarely defeat the sniper. If anything, it just barely hits the sniper to take it out of scope. A sniper standing on the base of valhalla for example. It is possible to hit him from the top of the center hill with a BR, but unless he stood still, killing him would take a great deal of time and effort.

5. The BR is the only "non-single shot precision weapon" but that's exactly what makes it unique. Take away the ability to land headshots, and you turn halo into a much more CQC game, where AR is the primary weapon. More Charging and Meleeing. Atleast with the BR you have to maintain a reticule on the Head for it to be effective.


1. Fair enough. You know more than I.

2. Not really. I suggested making it non-HS capable but upping the rate of fire and power a bit. There are a lot of other fixes out there too, I'm sure.

3. I'm sorry, you're wrong on this one. Yes, ALL body shots takes 8, but 3 body shots with the fourth starting at the chest and ending on the head will be a kill. There is NO difference in damage done to the shield - whether on the head or not - until the shields are down. Then it's only one bullet. I'm 100000000000000000% positive.

4. I completely agree that it should rarely defeat the sniper - OUTSIDE OF the BRs optimal range. A non-burst weapon would not change that. It would actually make it harder to hit the sniper, but when you did hit him, it would be where you told it to hit him. This means that you're actually skillfully aiming, but you're still probably not going to kill him. Imagine the same spot on valhalla using the carbine. Is the carbine some sniper killing machine? Not at all. It has some randomness, I'll grant you that, but it's still pretty accurate. And yes, I know there aren't carbines on Valhalla, just imagine.

5. I completely disagree. With the scope and accuracy kept, and if you'd up the ROF and the power a little, it would be great at pinging out snipers and taking down people at medium ranges. In fact, it would actually make the BR fit into a medium range niche better, as now it is a relatively good CQ weapon. If you stay outside of melee range, 4 shots comes pretty quickly, or if you lead with a grenade it's a simple kill with a swipe burst to the head. Taking away this would make it good ONLY at medium ranges rather than being the jack of all trades.

Posted by: A7XEric
THERE ARE MORE ISSUES THAN MULTIPLAYER!

Why do you tools only pretend like multiplayer is all that is important. It just seems that the halo community only cares about multiplayer, and wants every Halo game to be designed first and foremost as a multiplayer game and the campaign is just an afterthought. Screw that.

Every game mechanic, weapon, vehicle, etc. should be designed for campaign first, and then the multiplayer should be built to accomodate these mechanics, NOT the other way around which half of this forum seems to think.


Sorry, but you're living with an archaic mindset. Why should they gear the game towards campaign as opposed to multiplayer? Where is most of the time spent by players? What keeps the game alive over several years? Where does balance matter the most? Multiplayer is what most people buy stuff for now. I'm sorry if you don't fit that category, but it's where the party is.

That being said, all I care about is multiplayer, so that's all I chose to write about. I never excluded campaign at all, and in fact would love a campaign that drew me in enough to actually want to play it over and over again. So perhaps instead of putting out unwarranted opinions and rants, you make some suggestions on what you'd like to be seen in campaign. If they're good suggestions, I'll add them to the OP.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 10:12 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 10:01 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: A7XEric
THERE ARE MORE ISSUES THAN MULTIPLAYER!

Why do you tools only pretend like multiplayer is all that is important. It just seems that the halo community only cares about multiplayer, and wants every Halo game to be designed first and foremost as a multiplayer game and the campaign is just an afterthought. Screw that.

Every game mechanic, weapon, vehicle, etc. should be designed for campaign first, and then the multiplayer should be built to accomodate these mechanics, NOT the other way around which half of this forum seems to think.


I hear you. However, multiplayer definitely makes Bungie the money. I know you can add skulls and all that kind of stuff, but as it stands, campaign really isn't as replayable as multiplayer. Even if they made it very customizable, it's still not as replayable as multiplayer. However, I would love it if Bungie made a very customizable campaign. But as far as weapons and balancing issues, I think that has to be geared towards multiplayer.

  • 10.09.2009 10:30 AM PDT

I stoped at MLG got it right, MLG sucks in every way.
Spartans alread move increadably fast. Making him move at 110% in single player would just be stupid.

  • 10.09.2009 11:11 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: BIGNERENT
I stoped at MLG got it right, MLG sucks in every way.
Spartans alread move increadably fast. Making him move at 110% in single player would just be stupid.


Your name suits you well...

  • 10.09.2009 11:39 AM PDT

When I was explaining about the single shot HS-capability mode of the battle rifle, I never meant for that to be a sniper rifle replacement option. You would only get a one shot kill on an unshielded head. You still need to drain shields before that would become an option. I have a feeling the new "headshot" medal in ODST is here to stay.

And the OP is 1000% correct in saying that only the last burst currently needs to land on the head for a kill. The first three bursts can be anywhere because shields are intact and it takes 3 to drain them.

As far as Halo canon goes, I really don't see the point in the argument that the BR has always been a 3 shot burst weapon so we are stuck with it. Ever since CE, Halo has evolved with the needs of the community that supports it. The pistol in CE was basically a pocket sniper, but was changed dramatically in Halo 2. Did every pistol in the Haloverse sudden become victim of a severe technological downgrade in the canon? No, it was changed for the better of the multiplayability. In Halo canon did the Master Chief suddenly get some kind neural implant that made him realize that "wow! I can pick up two weapons at once!" No. It was added for adding a different way to play to the mix. In Halo canon...Master Chief is the last spartan...but every multiplayer match has tons of spartans in it. Everyone needs to take Halo canon with a grain of salt, if you want everything to be exactly as it is now why even buy the new game because you can play Halo 3 forever.

Everyone needs to understand...yes the campaign is fun, but if that is all there was to the game then you would see everyone stop playing the game a few weeks after release. Its Halo 3's multiplayer that has kept people playing this game for 3 years now. In order to keep interest in the game at the level it is now, the strategy and playability needs to evolve too, and if that means going outside Halo canon, so be it (as Bungie has done with every Halo game so far).

  • 10.09.2009 12:14 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: narb7long
When I was explaining about the single shot HS-capability mode of the battle rifle, I never meant for that to be a sniper rifle replacement option. You would only get a one shot kill on an unshielded head. You still need to drain shields before that would become an option. I have a feeling the new "headshot" medal in ODST is here to stay.

And the OP is 1000% correct in saying that only the last burst currently needs to land on the head for a kill. The first three bursts can be anywhere because shields are intact and it takes 3 to drain them.

As far as Halo canon goes, I really don't see the point in the argument that the BR has always been a 3 shot burst weapon so we are stuck with it. Ever since CE, Halo has evolved with the needs of the community that supports it. The pistol in CE was basically a pocket sniper, but was changed dramatically in Halo 2. Did every pistol in the Haloverse sudden become victim of a severe technological downgrade in the canon? No, it was changed for the better of the multiplayability. In Halo canon did the Master Chief suddenly get some kind neural implant that made him realize that "wow! I can pick up two weapons at once!" No. It was added for adding a different way to play to the mix. In Halo canon...Master Chief is the last spartan...but every multiplayer match has tons of spartans in it. Everyone needs to take Halo canon with a grain of salt, if you want everything to be exactly as it is now why even buy the new game because you can play Halo 3 forever.

Everyone needs to understand...yes the campaign is fun, but if that is all there was to the game then you would see everyone stop playing the game a few weeks after release. Its Halo 3's multiplayer that has kept people playing this game for 3 years now. In order to keep interest in the game at the level it is now, the strategy and playability needs to evolve too, and if that means going outside Halo canon, so be it (as Bungie has done with every Halo game so far).


Very good points about the canon. On top of that, Reach supposedly has the first BRs ever made, so it's quite possible that in production, the BR was tested as single shot and burst. Even if it wasn't, you are very correct that Halo gameplay doesn't always fit the minute details perfectly - nor should it be that big of a deal. Also, an argument from silence (we know that the BR has had burst capabilities, but just because we've never seen it shoot a single shot doesn't mean it hasn't at one time or couldn't).

  • 10.09.2009 12:23 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Reach did NOT have the "First BR's ever made"

Harvest did.

  • 10.09.2009 1:35 PM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Could you expound any more? When was Harvest? What about everyone else talking about the first BRs being at Reach?

  • 10.09.2009 2:33 PM PDT

What about the campaign? all i see is multiplayer. We need both sides to be epic!!!!! Halo Reach needs to be UNBELIEVABLE.

  • 10.09.2009 3:36 PM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • of 2