Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Poll [110 votes]: *Melee Lunge: Stay or Go?*
  • Poll [110 votes]: *Melee Lunge: Stay or Go?*
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3
Subject: *Melee Lunge: Stay or Go?*

.:. îXî - $ìgñ øf thé GøÐz .:.


My Profile - iXi Gaming


Î ũňķñ{ǾẄŃ} ū

Poll: *Melee Lunge: Stay or Go?*  [closed]
Stay but with the lunge distance in ODST:  40%
(44 Votes)
GTFO! Uppercut.:  42%
(46 Votes)
Whichever, as long as it's either OUT or like ODST:  18%
(20 Votes)
Total Votes: 110

Nice and simple. Do you think the melee lunge should stay or go?

Personally, if it DOES for SOME reason HAVE to stay, I think it should DEFINITELY be just like how it was in ODST, the same distance and everything. Let's face it, the melee lunge was a problematic addition in both Halo 2 and Halo 3.

In my opinion, I feel like Bungie only added the melee lunge to make it easier for people melee, however the melee was perfect in Halo 1. I don't understand why they would change what wasn't broken... so if anyone has a reason why Bungie changed it (with proof), then can you post it because I never understood why they would keep increasing the melee lunge to what it is today.


Now, I was one of those people who was allllll against the melee lunge and how broken/newbified/problematic it has been ever since it was introduced in Halo 2, but after seeing how balanced they made it in ODST, I suppose if they are DEFINITELY keeping it, I'd want it to be JUST like that. Therefore, I chose option 3 because it has to either GTFO or be JUST like ODST.

I personally think the best gameplay mechanics would result from one of the choices above.

Thoughts?


-UNKNOWN iXi

  • 10.09.2009 8:23 AM PDT

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position that argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

Put simply in the words of Nietzsche as "the will to nothingness".

Keep it only for on the ground, I hate it when you can suddenly lunge in mid-air for no reason. The sword especially.

Or if flying some how fits I think lowering the damage of the melees could work, like halo 2.

  • 10.09.2009 8:26 AM PDT

Chunky_Lover's Average Joe Interview

Bungie All Star Contest Winner Weeks 6,8 and 12

Actually play Halo Combat Evolved once more. This time a multiplayer LAN match.

A melee is very difficult in Halo Combat Evolved it was almost inefficient to even use a melee. Magnetism allows for you to actually be able to use an efficient melee otherwise it would be hard to beat down an opponent.

Halo Combat Evolved is an outdated game.

*GASP* Blasphemy right?

Bungie knows that resorting to older mechanics isn't the best way to go, but rather moving forward and improving on things that they know work better in this day and age.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 8:30 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 8:27 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

Posted by: DK daze
Dude I don't care and my grammer is perfect.I used "Big", as you recall it to mak is specific."to not do...",is incorrect beause "do" is present tense/perfect(or future) when it was a past tense.

You should have made an option "Just like Halo 3". Although I dont personally believe that it should stay, at least not the way it is.

  • 10.09.2009 8:28 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Reduce the lunge, but don't make it like Halo CE.

Make it 3 Melee to kill, like Halo 2.

Then we're set.

  • 10.09.2009 8:36 AM PDT

.:. îXî - $ìgñ øf thé GøÐz .:.


My Profile - iXi Gaming


Î ũňķñ{ǾẄŃ} ū

Posted by: Chunky_Lover
Actually play Halo Combat Evolved once more. This time a multiplayer LAN match.

A melee is very difficult in Halo Combat Evolved it was almost inefficient to even use a melee. Magnetism allows for you to actually be able to use an efficient melee otherwise it would be hard to beat down an opponent.

Halo Combat Evolved is an outdated game.

*GASP* Blasphemy right?

Bungie knows that resorting to older mechanics isn't the best way to go, but rather moving forward and improving on things that they know work better in this day and age.


Umm... Clearly you don't know about XBC (Xbox Connect). It's a program that let you trick your Xbox into playing through system link online. Back in the day, all these "pros" you see now used to play Halo 1 since 2001-early 2002 online with Xbox. No offense, but you are completely incorrect.

Halo 1 melee was by far the most efficient/less broken AND well-balanced melee of all 3 games.. with AND without lag included. I'm not some random newb complaining about the melee lunge by the way, maybe I should have put that in my original post...

  • 10.09.2009 8:37 AM PDT

Chunky_Lover's Average Joe Interview

Bungie All Star Contest Winner Weeks 6,8 and 12

Posted by: UNKNOWN iXi
Posted by: Chunky_Lover
Actually play Halo Combat Evolved once more. This time a multiplayer LAN match.

A melee is very difficult in Halo Combat Evolved it was almost inefficient to even use a melee. Magnetism allows for you to actually be able to use an efficient melee otherwise it would be hard to beat down an opponent.

Halo Combat Evolved is an outdated game.

*GASP* Blasphemy right?

Bungie knows that resorting to older mechanics isn't the best way to go, but rather moving forward and improving on things that they know work better in this day and age.


Umm... Clearly you don't know about XBC (Xbox Connect). It's a program that let you trick your Xbox into playing through system link online. Back in the day, all these "pros" you see now used to play Halo 1 since 2001-early 2002 online with Xbox. No offense, but you are completely incorrect.

Halo 1 melee was by far the most efficient/less broken AND well-balanced melee of all 3 games.. with AND without lag included. I'm not some random newb complaining about the melee lunge by the way, maybe I should have put that in my original post...
I am aware of Xbox Connect, I used to play on it.

Since you seem to have some knowledge explaining as to why you think its so balanced? And as to why you think it would work if Reach? I don't see the Lunge/Magnetism broken I see it as an improvement.

My intention of my post was a debate not an arguement so I don't want to turn this discussion into a Flame thread.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 8:45 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 8:44 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

I'd prefer the lunge to go. I see the problems with not having it (telekinetic melees for certain connections), but the melee system in Halo: CE just felt right (not to mention the animations for the melee were actually better....).

  • 10.09.2009 8:44 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

If I could, I'd make it optional for the gametype.

I don't think it's broken the way it is, nor is it annoying. Some people (MLG?) might want to keep melée lunging off, but I really don't think it's doing much harm the way it is. I'd be fine if they wanted to bring down the range of the lunge - I just don't think it has a large effect on the game.

  • 10.09.2009 8:48 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

My main beef with lunging is the blatant disregard for realism it poses at times. Where the hell do you get the momentum to accelerate toward your target while in a mid-air jump?

On foot, it makes sense, and it puts a little more emphasis behind your melee. But, and this is especially the case with the sword, you should not be able to change how high you jump or your trajectory in mid-air because of the lunge. It's just weird!

  • 10.09.2009 8:55 AM PDT

The internet is a bad place.

Your options confuse me.
Nr2 is out with the lunge right?

  • 10.09.2009 9:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

I hate it! It's so stupid seeing people fly like superman across the map and then kill you!

  • 10.09.2009 9:09 AM PDT

Keep the lunge as it is. Melee is supposed to be easy to use for a reason. Its one of the three sides of the melee triangle.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 9:27 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 9:26 AM PDT

Take it out completely. Halo 1's melee system worked fine. The lunging melees are so jerky and take all of the fluidity out of the combat. It's such an annoyance.

Well if bungie insists that it stays in the game TAKE IT OUT OF CAMPAIGN! I can somewhat understand it being in multiplayer, to maybe compensate for lag that would make meleeing someone else a chore to do, but there is absolutely no reason it should be in campaign. Like i said, it takes all of the fluidity out of the combat, not to mention doesn't have the same satisfaction as landing a successful blow in Halo 1.

Lets see, so if it takes the fluidity out of the combat, takes the skill out of the combat, and isn't as satisfying to use as the system that was in place in Halo 1, WHY THE HELL IS IT STILL IN THE GAME?!

Again I understand that in multiplayer it makes sense, but the Halo games should not be designed around their multiplayer mode and have the gameplay mechanics applied to campaign as an afterthought. If bungie must, leave the lunge in multiplayer but for the love of god take it out of single player

[Edited on 10.09.2009 9:35 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 9:31 AM PDT

Nihilism (from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical position that argues that existence is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.

Put simply in the words of Nietzsche as "the will to nothingness".

Halo is primarily about Shooting, grenades and melee.

  • 10.09.2009 9:34 AM PDT

Posted by: A7XEric
takes the skill out of the combat...


Just like how it takes no skill to climb a rock wall without first cutting off both your arms right?

Do not confuse skill with handicapping yourself with some honor-derived sense of how the game should be played.

I also completely disagree about your comment about fluidity of combat. Perhaps if you beeline beatdown it isn't terribly fluid but if you are going about it the right way, close quarter combat is a beautiful masterpiece of jumps, spins, utilizing cover, which keeps me coming back to Halo again and again.

  • 10.09.2009 9:37 AM PDT

I'm just saying, the fact that it doesn't take skill is pretty much the icing on the cake for a reason not to have the lunge anymore. You can't deny the fact that it's very jerky and takes any fluidity out of the combat.

And you also failed to address why it is needed in campaign. It isn't. It impairs the gameplay of the campaign.

  • 10.09.2009 9:40 AM PDT

My talents include always knowing the wrong thing to say.

Twitter!

I think I'd end up missing it. Probably cause I suck.

  • 10.09.2009 9:42 AM PDT

Posted by: A7XEric
I'm just saying, the fact that it doesn't take skill is pretty much the icing on the cake for a reason not to have the lunge anymore. You can't deny the fact that it's very jerky and takes any fluidity out of the combat.

And you also failed to address why it is needed in campaign. It isn't. It impairs the gameplay of the campaign.


Making it hard to melee would only make the fluidity worse as players try to hit each other but barely miss. Ever tried to kill your team mates with a sword after the "Round Over" is announced? It isn't all that easy is it? You seriously want melee to be like that? People just swinging and missing? Might as well just take melee out of the game.

As for the reason to keep it in campaign? Can't really think of any.

But hey while we are on the topic of making campaign more skillful, we could make many more changes beyond that. Lets take the grenade, and make it super bouncy, so it is nearly impossible to get it to land near my opponent's feet. It would be so satisfying when that one grenade out of 1000 actually kills something.

We could also make the battle rifle fire only one bullet per burst in single player. That way it takes twelve bursts to kill an elite! Can you imagine the skill that it takes to dodge every bullet and grenade while it takes you a minute to kill each individual enemy?

And the sniper rifle? Scopes are for losers, no scopes are so pro and take skill! In fact, we'll make the sniper rifle fire bullets backwards out of the grip of the gun! Yup, to get kills with it you have to turn your melee sensitive back to the enemy and fire blindly! So badass to do that! I'm sure everybody will love that modification!

Whats that? Beginners would be seriously confused when they are transitioning from campaign to multiplayer if we were to make these changes? Screw them. They are noobs.

Whats that? Bungie would need to program two versions of the combat system to accomplish this? Screw them. I am the customer, and the customer is always right.

Can you come up with a reason why we shouldn't make these changes to campaign? They fix what isn't broken. I don't see why not. Surely Halo campaign would become much more skillful if we do all of the above, because that is very, very, very important to the adverage Halo gamer if their campaign takes "skill" or not.

Melee in Halo campaign is fine as it is. Probably the only thing that needs changes is to make it so that brutes / elites don't flinch over and over again when you melee them. That is all.

  • 10.09.2009 10:09 AM PDT

The internet is a bad place.

Posted by: Hylebos

Making it hard to melee would only make the fluidity worse as players try to hit each other but barely miss. Ever tried to kill your team mates with a sword after the "Round Over" is announced? It isn't all that easy is it? You seriously want melee to be like that? People just swinging and missing? Might as well just take melee out of the game.

As for the reason to keep it in campaign? Can't really think of any.

But hey while we are on the topic of making campaign more skillful, we could make many more changes beyond that. Lets take the grenade, and make it super bouncy, so it is nearly impossible to get it to land near my opponent's feet. It would be so satisfying when that one grenade out of 1000 actually kills something.

We could also make the battle rifle fire only one bullet per burst in single player. That way it takes twelve bursts to kill an elite! Can you imagine the skill that it takes to dodge every bullet and grenade while it takes you a minute to kill each individual enemy?

And the sniper rifle? Scopes are for losers, no scopes are so pro and take skill! In fact, we'll make the sniper rifle fire bullets backwards out of the grip of the gun! Yup, to get kills with it you have to turn your melee sensitive back to the enemy and fire blindly! So badass to do that! I'm sure everybody will love that modification!

Whats that? Beginners would be seriously confused when they are transitioning from campaign to multiplayer if we were to make these changes? Screw them. They are noobs.

Whats that? Bungie would need to program two versions of the combat system to accomplish this? Screw them. I am the customer, and the customer is always right.

Can you come up with a reason why we shouldn't make these changes to campaign? They fix what isn't broken. I don't see why not. Surely Halo campaign would become much more skillful if we do all of the above, because that is very, very, very important to the adverage Halo gamer if their campaign takes "skill" or not.

Melee in Halo campaign is fine as it is. Probably the only thing that needs changes is to make it so that brutes / elites don't flinch over and over again when you melee them. That is all.


The changes you sarcasticly suggest making do not improve the fun or logic of the game.
Although the change suggested by the OP do.

There is your reason good sir.

  • 10.09.2009 10:12 AM PDT

Posted by: Rob004
The changes you sarcasticly suggest making do not improve the fun or logic of the game.
Although the change suggested by the OP do.

There is your reason good sir.

I find it fun that I can zip from person to person and decimate a crowd. The melee lunge is also quite logical. I can run at 27 km miles per hour in my 1000 pound armor non stop, isn't it reasonable that if I can accomplish that feat that I can make a quick dash to catch up to a nearby opponent to punch him in the face?

How is the melee lunge not fun or logical?

We could also take out the magnetisim that makes it so that its easy to kill someone in a BR fight too. Its more logical that I should need to aim my gun without a computer helping me to stay on target. Use the force, you know? But that would also make the game much harder. So they don't do that either.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 10:21 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 10:16 AM PDT

PLEASE DO NOT SEND ME GROUP INVITATIONS

The Halo REACH Script (post thoughts in thread)

Writing Lead of Whisper Studios. Check out Heron!

Look... I'm on bungiepedia!

Posted by: Chunky_Lover
Actually play Halo Combat Evolved once more. This time a multiplayer LAN match.

A melee is very difficult in Halo Combat Evolved it was almost inefficient to even use a melee. Magnetism allows for you to actually be able to use an efficient melee otherwise it would be hard to beat down an opponent.

Halo Combat Evolved is an outdated game.

*GASP* Blasphemy right?
It was tougher to melee but the melee was also the weakest of the series. Halo 3's was the easiest to land but also the strongest of the series. What if it was tougher to melee (ala Halo 1, no lunge) but was also as strong as in Halo 3 (2HK), making melees worth landing?

Bungie knows that resorting to older mechanics isn't the best way to go, but rather moving forward and improving on things that they know work better in this day and age.Well they did this with power weapon respawns and aim assist levels from Halo 2 to 3, sniper overpenetration from Halo 2 to Halo 3, health and fall damage from Halo 3 to Halo 3: ODST.

  • 10.09.2009 10:23 AM PDT

The less than a second latency of online play is a better system to play off of than more health.

You realize this system is just as host based, right? because if you're fighting host, or someone with a better connection to host, and you each start firing at the same time, his BULLETS will register first, giving him slightly more health if the melees happen at the same time.

So would you rather have the BS of both, or just one?

-HaVOk1228

I really dislike what the lock on melee does to close combat fighting. It too frequently makes up close combat a melee bashing mash. I can pop in Halo:CE every now and then and just feel the intensity of missing with my melee attacks and start freaking out about how my next move will go.
-EX: "Okay here I'll just swoop in for the punch and, oh crap I missed, *swing again* awwe that shifty lil, okay gotta move/ shoot/ try again."
- As opposed to: "Oh it appears I am close enough for a melee attack, I'll just look in his general direction and... alas my radar guided fist has landed on target, that was a rather uneventful happening."

-The melee attack should leave the player stationary (maybe have a jolting screen effect) but otherwise act like a shotgun with incredibly short range.
-EX: Player is left stationary, in his view he sees some odd twitching animation, other players see his body contort into a striking pose, and gameplay wise the player has just fired a small cone of damage equivalent to 1/2 a player's (normal) HP if dealth normally and 100% if dealth to the rear (assassination).

EDIT: As for weapons such as the sword/ gravity hammer, if they are included in Reach then I would simply say that they get the same "cone of damage" for their delivery but simply widen or elongate that cone.
-EX: To match the depth of a sword being rammed through a target the player's cone of melee damage is slightly widened and considerably extended (not to great distances but maybe 1.5x the normal length. The Hammer (being more of an area of effect weapon anyways) can ditch that little explosion of force and instead deliver a much wider cone of damage (like the player's entire screen is dealt damage). The actual damage done by these strikes could be increased to make them one hit kills or in the case of the hammer maybe weaken if the strike is not dead on.

[Edited on 10.09.2009 10:34 AM PDT]

  • 10.09.2009 10:25 AM PDT

The internet is a bad place.

Posted by: Hylebos
I find it fun that I can zip from person to person and decimate a crowd. The melee lunge is also quite logical. I can run at 27 km miles per hour in my 1000 pound armor non stop, isn't it reasonable that if I can accomplish that feat that I can make a quick dash to catch up to a nearby opponent to punch him in the face?

How is the melee lunge not fun or logical?

We could also take out the magnetisim that makes it so that its easy to kill someone in a BR fight too. Its more logical that I should need to aim my gun without a computer helping me to stay on target. Use the force, you know? But that would also make the game much harder. So they don't do that either.


Can you lunge while in mid-air?
It is to a degree logical that you can lunge on the ground,but this is a pain in MM to know who should have won.

And i would actually like having the Aim-assist decreased,if not removed.
Made a thread and all about it.There are likeminded people on that to.

  • 10.09.2009 10:30 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • of 3