Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: Halo Reach : A Balancing Act

Multiplayer Gameplay
Halo:CE------------------Reach--------Halo2-----------------H alo3
Campaign Experience
Reach----Halo:CE-----------------ODST-----Halo2---------Halo3

Glad that Halo 3 garbage is dead, thanks to Reach.
Unfreakenbelievable!!

I think we are both getting confused on the whole damage argument. So, I decided to take some examples and look at the weapon selections...

With normal damage (or double as you put it):
PR+SMG = shields would be out in about 3 plasma shots, then the opponent would die slightly quicker than with a single SMG with no shields.

PR+Magnum = shields are down quickly followed by headshot

SMG+SMG = kills twice as fast as single SMG

M6G+M6G = kills in the speed of a 3-shot, and the speed of a 4-shot with all body shots.

(I left out PP combos cause it is self-explanatory and Spiker combos due to me never using it.)

I actually think that some of these combos could work with Normal damage attributes. However, I think the Plasma Rifle should be slightly less strong, and I think the Pistol used should be more dependent on headshots than it is so it takes less body shots for a kill.

I am still wary, though. Dual SMGs would have too much of an advantage over a single SMG; not that I would use a single SMG anyway. There isn't a huge problem with the plasma combos because those are used with a purpose of taking out shields to either Melee or headshot. There would just be an advantage with not having to swap weapons, which is why I think dualing a PR should decrease its shield damage slightly. As for the Magnum, a 3-shot sounds badass and preferred. However, an inaccurate Magnum while dualing will just add an element of randomness that I don't want to go back to after Halo 3.

I'm still against the whole coding in a wider spread. I think the accuracy should be affected by other elements in-game, like recoil or human error. Range is also controlled by target size and bullet speed as well. Certain single-shots like PR and Spiker are already limited to range due to slow bullet speed; I think those weapons should not be coded any bit of randomness.

  • 10.13.2009 1:32 AM PDT
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Posted by: fifthderelicte
Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
Just to add a new element to this weapons balance post, what about the Duel weapons. a lot of problems i could see with balance is with duels.
what i mean is there are so much of them. some of the will inevitably be pointless.

EX- the Plasma Rifle, spiker, and SMG. theis weapons ar vitaly the same weapon. yes the SMG has a decent Mussle velocity but is terribly inaccurate.

so what if Duels were removed. yes a spartan would defiantly have no problem using two weapons. but i have noticed that Gameplay runs smoother and balances out better without Duels.

as far as balancing the smaller weapons goes i would do
this

SMG/magnum- should be the Base of the side arms the difference between the SMG and Magnum i think should be the difference between the AR and the BR. it would work because they are both close quarter weapons so it would be Fair for the SMG rush

plasma rifle- should be similar to the SMG but to balance the lower mussel velocity it would have more power.

plasma pistol- good as it is just with a little more Armor damage

spiker- i think should do tremendous armor damage but do little shield damage. the spikes should ricochet of the shield---- it would look very cool

mauler- good as it is


I think a lot of the dual problem is they don't have a range. Too close and you get shotgunned, any farther and you get ARed. There is no range for duals. I think moving out the range of the AR, as well as the carbine type weapons, would open up a niche for duals (if they keep them at all). Then they should bring back aspects of the PR like it used to have, where it creates a stun effect on players (and vehicles?). The pistol is the HS capable weapon, the PP is good, mauler is kind of pointless and redundant, and the SMG accuracy should be bumped up a little, or at least be given an aspect of accuracy when pumped. I liked your idea about the spiker. A spiker mixed with a PR would be deadly. Too deadly?

Good ideas.



I have 3 solutions to this

1- as i mentioned I don't think removing Duel wielding would harm gameplay; if any thing it would smooth it out, make it play batter

2- Like you mentioned with the Spike and Plasma rifle combo, yes that would be overpowered if the plasma rifle did the damage it dose now, but my suggestion was just make the plasma rifle a little more powerful than the SMG in shield and Armor. to account for the Low mussel velocity.

3- one more thing you could do is give the PR and the spiker different mussel velocities, so it you try to hit a moving target only one of the weapons would hit

[Edited on 10.13.2009 10:25 AM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 10:25 AM PDT
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1. I agree. It really isn't that thoughtful of a process. There isn't much choice, as it's almost always PR with pistol, or maybe SMG. But it's pretty much always a PR, and rarely a PP. But I never really see duals, and I don't think taking them out would be a big deal. It's great to have options, but I'd much rather see guns that have specialties as opposed to just a bunch of all the same weapons that just look different. I think they could make dual wielding interesting, but if they don't want to waste the time, just throw it out.

2. It would even out with the PR doing shield damage and SMG doing body, as Bungie tones down damage when dual wielding currently.

3. I really like this.

4. I added a portion to my melee section. If you want all melees to have the same essential power, I proposed that the speed of melee could be tweaked instead of the power. So while a plasma pistol could melee 2/sec (just as an example), the BR would do 2/1.5 sec and the sniper 2/2sec or 1/sec.

  • 10.13.2009 3:44 PM PDT

Wayne Jarvis, Attorney at Law; I have a responsibility to tell you that there is no candy in this office.

Thread saved. Very good read.

  • 10.14.2009 1:28 PM PDT

you should also read the other posts. Those are very good reads as well.

Posted by: Horse Repairman
Thread saved. Very good read.

  • 10.14.2009 1:59 PM PDT
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Posted by: Horse Repairman
Thread saved. Very good read.


quick question how many people have this tread saved


any what about this idea
Well i would like every weapon from the Halo Universe in reach;
and have Balanced weapon "SETS" appropriate for certain maps

[Edited on 10.14.2009 7:49 PM PDT]

  • 10.14.2009 7:45 PM PDT

Wayne Jarvis, Attorney at Law; I have a responsibility to tell you that there is no candy in this office.

Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
you should also read the other posts. Those are very good reads as well.

Posted by: Horse Repairman
Thread saved. Very good read.

I read through a good portion of this thread, and your thread as well. In fact, both threads are currently in my Mozilla Firefox bookmarks tab, because I always forget about Saved Threads. I want to keep checking up on these while they're relevant.

I will admit that my, "Thread saved," post was very much a bump.


*cough.

  • 10.15.2009 5:11 AM PDT

Well bumping is a good way to get a good thread locked


Posted by: Horse Repairman
Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
you should also read the other posts. Those are very good reads as well.

Posted by: Horse Repairman
Thread saved. Very good read.

I read through a good portion of this thread, and your thread as well. In fact, both threads are currently in my Mozilla Firefox bookmarks tab, because I always forget about Saved Threads. I want to keep checking up on these while they're relevant.

I will admit that my, "Thread saved," post was very much a bump.


*cough.

I have this thread saved, just so I come back to it and respond to posts.

  • 10.15.2009 9:16 PM PDT

Wayne Jarvis, Attorney at Law; I have a responsibility to tell you that there is no candy in this office.

Well, it wasn't really a bump, more of like... rather than ignoring the thread, mentioning that I saved it.

  • 10.19.2009 12:35 PM PDT

Which is always a good thing to do.

  • 10.20.2009 8:13 PM PDT
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I have an Idea, what about having all the weapons of the Halo Universe, and having appropriate and balance weapons sets, to avoid balance issues, weapons redundancy, and weapons Clutter.

a bit of Halo 3s problem is there are too many different weapons that do the Same thing.

so any weapons set would have at least

1 type of dedicated CQC weapon (sword, shotgun, hammer)
1 type of Mid range Jack of all trades (AR if done right; otherwise BR, Carbine)
1 type of power weapon (Rocket, Fuel rod, Laser)
1 type of sniper (self explanatory)
or any other weapons the, make the Map functional, Fun, and balanced

for Example what about a Halo CE weapons setting
-MA5B- mid range in a scenario where the AR was more effective at longer ranges
-M6D- if AR not edited this would be the mid range, otherwise Other
-M90 shotgun- CQC
-Rocket launcher- power weapon
-Sniper- Sniper
-Plasma Rifle- Other
-Plasma Pistol- Other
-Needler- Other



[Edited on 10.20.2009 9:34 PM PDT]

  • 10.20.2009 9:31 PM PDT
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I don't think this is a bad idea. The covenant weapons are good for shields and human for body. Just make a weapon for each area like you propose.
Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
I have an Idea, what about having all the weapons of the Halo Universe, and having appropriate and balance weapons sets, to avoid balance issues, weapons redundancy, and weapons Clutter.

a bit of Halo 3s problem is there are too many different weapons that do the Same thing.

so any weapons set would have at least

1 type of dedicated CQC weapon (sword, shotgun, hammer)
1 type of Mid range Jack of all trades (AR if done right; otherwise BR, Carbine)
1 type of power weapon (Rocket, Fuel rod, Laser)
1 type of sniper (self explanatory)
or any other weapons the, make the Map functional, Fun, and balanced

for Example what about a Halo CE weapons setting
-MA5B- mid range in a scenario where the AR was more effective at longer ranges
-M6D- if AR not edited this would be the mid range, otherwise Other
-M90 shotgun- CQC
-Rocket launcher- power weapon
-Sniper- Sniper
-Plasma Rifle- Other
-Plasma Pistol- Other
-Needler- Other

  • 10.25.2009 3:24 PM PDT

Posted by: TN The Colony
Posted by: venix445
Posted by: Wv Hellbilly76
any ideas?

i heard... that its shishkas skull... bungie x-rayed his head and put that in as the oddball, they did so that they can put shishka in every oddball match to keep an eye on us to make sure we dont cheat remember this next time you go into oddball... shishkas watching...


PURE WIN!

nice thread but i still want the BR gone i absolutley despise that weapon its the worst thing to ever happen to halo, a never played much H1 MP but i dont think the pistol was major huge dominant like the BR,i know the BR is usefull but thats its problem its too usefull too general pupose too versatile like the big argument against it is it takes out vaiety completley and its just too much now fogt editing it just get rid of that -Blam-

but again nice thead

  • 10.25.2009 3:51 PM PDT

Posted by: venix445
nice thread but i still want the BR gone i absolutley despise that weapon its the worst thing to ever happen to halo, a never played much H1 MP but i dont think the pistol was major huge dominant like the BR,i know the BR is usefull but thats its problem its too usefull too general pupose too versatile like the big argument against it is it takes out vaiety completley and its just too much now fogt editing it just get rid of that -Blam-

but again nice thead

Yeah, I dont think these guys want to take it out, and neither do I. It just needs to be fixed and balanced. Why take a good weapon out when it could be fixed?

Here's a few ideas of mine:

Well, I don't know how much this will affect balance, but I really think that when you're crouched and get shot, you should not stand up. It makes crouching behind cover nearly useless. I never understood why Bungie did that.

Also, I think the shotgun should be changed to be just like the H1 shotgun, but have a 6 round mag. Right now the shotgun is useless outside of 2 or 3 meters.

One more thing, I know this thread is about weapons, but I think vehicles should be mentioned. Vehicles are pretty well balanced now, but one thing that annoys me to no end is that your shields affect the weapons health. Why should some guy shooting at the vehicle kill the passenger? Anyone who's flown a hornet with a passenger knows what I'm talking about. What Bungie should do is put a separate health bar for vehicles. That way, its possible for the vehicle to explode without being affected by your shields, but not kill everyone inside (especially if you have overshields). With a vehicle health bar that operates independent of your health, vehicles will be MUCH more resistant to small arms fire (as they should be), but still vulnerable to power weapons such as the rocket or laser, or even the fuel rod. This will also reward players who are accurate enough to kill an exposed passenger, rather than spraying the vehicle it with a machine gun.

[Edited on 10.25.2009 4:55 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2009 4:42 PM PDT
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No.

Posted by: AlbinoKola1
I think Halo is already balanced.


lol.

  • 10.25.2009 4:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Dallas Green
I make a legitimate thread on the most logical choice for the next Bond actor, and you take that away from me by creating a parody thread indirectly connecting my thread to yours.

I hope your kids have bad influences and develop bad personalities. I wish this with all my heart.

If there's one thing I loved about the melee system in Halo 3, it was that close-quarters fights ended quickly. In past games, many melee fights involve running at your opponent, one person running past the other, one person jumping to avoid being assassinated, and most of the time being spent trying to look at your opponent. In Halo 3, most close-quarters fights ended with someone dying once they got within range. This is much for fun than the latter option, and keeps the game pace flowing. Yeah, I think most melee damage should go down, but like this:
1. Dual-wieldable weapons do less damage, but melee faster. (read: 3 melees to kill) Spikers and maulers rule.
2. Regular weapons (carbine, BR, AR, etc.) do slightly less. Enough damage to not completely drain shields, but still kill in 2 hits.
3. Heavy and bladed weapons do Halo 3's damage. 1 empties shields, 1 kills. Spikers would actually be lethal close quarters weapons. Maulers would be sweet, but still no M90.

As for the BR, how about this:

1. Reduce clip size to 32 rounds
2. Make it semi-auto
3. Keep 2x scope
4. Have it fill the automag's niche.
5. Reduce the extra ammo count count to 96.
6. Give the AR much more range, about the same as a non-scoped BR. The BR fires bigger rounds, and should actually be less accurate, so why not?
7. Make the AR heavier. (read: melee damage of Rockets, brute shot, etc.) and make the BR do the same melee damage as dual-wieldable weapons, but same melee speed as AR. It's light, but still not pistol-sized, so you can't just spin it around on your finger. This will make people pick another weapon at close quarters.
Make the silenced SMG fill the AR's niche. Dual-wieldable, same size of cursor as old AR, no scope.
8. Keep AR as starting weapon. Bigger maps need longer range. I think the MA5K should get some love.
9. Bring back the past AR's, alongside the new one. The changes I mentioned above are for balance, the old ones are for fan love.

I think that's everything. Maybe tone down the plasma rifle a bit, ( kills faster in CQB than AR? Not on my watch) and yeah, that's it. What do you guys think?

  • 10.25.2009 5:38 PM PDT

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