Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Does 'Classic' Halo still have its place?
  • Subject: Does 'Classic' Halo still have its place?
Subject: Does 'Classic' Halo still have its place?
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Let me start off with a bit of introduction. Hi, I'm Sanjeev. I'm about 15 years old. My introduction to gaming happened when I was about 5, with the Gameboy. I remember my first 2 games being 'Buzz Lightyear of Star Command' and one of those weird, fake 200 games in 1 collections. And right from that point, I got hooked into gaming.

Then, something magical happened Early 2002. I had performed pretty darn well in my school examinations and my father decided to reward me with something: An Xbox. It was a bundle. I still have the box with me. In fact, I'm looking at it right now. One of the games was a 2 game set: Tetris and Star Wars: The Clone Wars. And the other?

Halo: Combat Evolved.

And the moment I entered the disc into my Xbox, I became a fan. Halo was all I played for a good long time. So, I've been playing Halo since pretty much from the beginning. Of course, Halo 2 was big for me. I stayed home sick on E3 2003 to watch the Halo 2 E3 Demo. And in 2007? Holy hell. I stayed home 'sick' multiple times to follow the 'Iris' ARG and to catch any possible news. One particular incident that stand out for me was an issue of EGM was going to come out. I had been told that a copy had been leaked and scans were going to come out the next day. Due to time zone differences, the info would come out when I was at school. At the time, the logical thing for me to do was to skip school.

You're probably wondering why this -blam!- is telling you all this. Well, I'm trying to tell you that I've been a long time Halo player. I've stayed with the series for such a long time.

And hence, what I'm about to tell you will, nay, should have greater depth and feel.

Let's get right down to it: I don't think Halo, as we know it, can survive.

Of course, the first logical response and example you'll counter with now is that Halo 3 is still amongst the Top 10 games on LIVE. Hell, Halo 2 is THE top LIVE Xbox Originals game, though frankly in terms of how Microsoft treated the Xbox after the 360 came out, its nothing much to be proud off.

Well yea, sure, Halo 3 is still up there. Dude, I play it all the time. Its a fine, fine game. But it struck me, a few days ago... A feeling that's been in me since the beginning of this year got evoked tenfold.

I had a little break from Halo 3, trying to finish up a bunch of other games. My true return back was with ODST, which had an amazing campaign, Firefight's pretty good. But, when I put in the Halo 3 Mythic Disc, something was different.

It just didn't feel right. I was going about, doing the things I had always done. For the last 2 years. BRing dudes, Grenading,all that fun stuff. But something was wrong... It was Halo 3.

I'm not phrasing it right at all. What I'm trying to say is, Halo 3 is getting old. Its still fun, but what really am I playing for? What really are we all playing for?

Soon after Halo 3's release, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare was released. It had its flaws and its Multiplayer was pretty unbalanced to say the least, but it introduced a concept that you are seeing in a lot of games now and its the reason why that game is so popular as well: Progression.

Motivation to keep on going. It gives you a reason to keep playing. Sure, Infinity Ward, I feel, did not implement it right and as a result the game got so damn unbalanced but other games, while not as high in quality and polish, have made innovations to that concept and prove that Progression is an essential concept in Modern games, specifically shooters.

So, I'm not going to tell you what I feel Halo should become. Throughout my time here, I think, if you've seen my forum topics and posts, you know where I stand. No, I want to try and get some intelligent responses. I've been seeing a lot of people saying 'NO!!!!' whenever someone tries to suggest a change in Halo.

I want you to come up here and tell me your stand. Should Bungie tweak their formula for Halo: Reach? And don't give me a 'Yes/No' answer. I want explanations and suggestions. I trust the B.Net Community is capable of at least that level of basic discussion.

  • 10.13.2009 7:30 AM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

Nothing Halo1/Halo2/Halo3/ODST doesn't have. Halo1 has brutality, Halo2 has chaos, Halo3 has epicness, ODST has darkness. Taking best parts of each, tweaking some of them and adding a handful of new things could make a great game.

Better outlooks, better levels, better AI, more tools and factors; campaign, multiplayer, firefight... The core gameplay is unimprovable IMO.

  • 10.13.2009 7:48 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Hmm, I had originally intended for this thread to be Multiplayer/Gameplay focused but its okay, we can expand it.

Personally, I don't think we've seen Luke Smith's work yet. But, I have to agree, out of the 3 Writers we've been accustomed to so far, Joseph Staten is the only one who can really do things right. ODST is a fine example.

  • 10.13.2009 7:51 AM PDT

Hey,
I've read it all and it seems I can easily place myself in you. You made a good story, which I'm sorry to say not mcuh people are going to read. Well not the whole thing. The ones that do read the whole thing at least have some brain.

Asking for change in these forums is a risk I can tell you.
I've made two large topics here in the Halo:Reach forum. In one I told about all things we should have in Reach and only added minor things such as an "undo-function" for forge.
Everybody loved it!
The other one, which I made recently, was about how the rankingsystem could be improved. I told that skill and experience shouldn't be linked together to get a rank. No, I introduced a whole new exp.system to prevent standbyers and quitters and set apart the skillsystem to prevent secondaccounters.
Allmost nobody thought it could work. all saying it was like CoD... which is odd as I haven't ever really played that game. Once when I was at a friends home. I don't know how their online/rankingsystems work!

The community is afraid of change. they will think halo becomes like all other games. It won't. even with changes it won't.
If you're not changing anything than a new game isn't needed right? that's what I think

  • 10.13.2009 7:51 AM PDT

I hunt for the Prophet of Contentment, the San 'Shyumm that murdered my son, and stole his birthright, his Energy Sword. They call our species Heretics. They claim to all that our tongues sting, our words a vile poison that feeds on the unworthy. I have seen the true face of Heresy. The head of a gallant warrior lay on the ground. His neck scorched and blistered, scarred by his own blade. I shall retrieve the weapon, and drive it through that bastard's heart! Punishment for his sins is nigh.

Halo 2 and 3 got stale quickly, their gameplay lacked interest. But Halo CE, and ODST (which actually reverts back to a very similar feel to Halo CE) were definitely the play styles the public prefers.

Effectively, CE + Improvements and enhancement = GOOD FUN GAMEPLAY.

  • 10.13.2009 7:55 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Its true. I had made a post here once, detailing a completely different type of Halo experience that should, by design, feel familiar and you can see for yourself, how well that worked out.

Oh and Call of Duty 4's, and in turn Call of Duty: World at War's, Ranking and Experience system is much better than the TruSkill system Bungie chose to implement.

  • 10.13.2009 7:55 AM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

I think there is a lot that Bungie could do for Reach that would involve making Halo more "current," using features developed for shooters by other companies. But I would only want to see this in a Halo game if Bungie really worked hard to make those features their own and allow them to exist in a Halo game while maintaining or even improving the games "Halo" feel.

  • 10.13.2009 8:04 AM PDT
  • gamertag: [none]
  • user homepage:

war never determines who is right, only who is left

well sanjeev, you nailed it all in one, ive been trying to preach change in the halo universe, only to get called a troll and be booed by mlg fanatics, but your thread just about covers everything i signed up to bungie.net for,to ask of change.
i thoroughly agree with your statement, the gaming market is dog eat dog. its survival of the fittest, and halo needs to adapt or die.
my swedish friend and i were coming up with improvements not three months ago, i shall not name them for it'd be pointless to cause arguments in your thread.i will say however that they were in a more realistic war experience direction. i know that its impossible to have halo too realistic, as it would just be plain boring. im talking about horrific scenery as seen in halo ce, the first flood encounter, when i played that level i was having nightmares about finding a trail of my families blood into a room full of their dismembered corpses, okay, the level doesnt have dismemberment, but everything else happens. apart from the inclusion of my family.
9/10 people who hate change in halo only hate it because they hate CoD, which is halos worst enemy, agreed bungie change things every game, they bring new things in, they bring old things back, and they throw bad things away. but is this really enough?
i dont want the gameplay to change, i do want a much clearer story, i understand it perfectly but the amount of times i have needed to explain what the halo rings actually do, or why the hell chief was on earth on halo 3, or even where he was! frankly people get confused.
so yes, i agree with you and now, you know that you are not alone in this perspective, others do want change.
alas, it all comes down to bungie, its their final say

  • 10.13.2009 8:53 AM PDT

Bacon

Don't talk crap about halo man

  • 10.13.2009 8:54 AM PDT

Sometimes in life you're the bug and other times your the windshield. What are you today?

I don't think classic Halo will still have a place in the future, just in the past as a "classic game". The reason being is that even though people may yell "Don't Change A Thing" we really need it. I know you're a younger gamer (compared to me who's working on my 23 year of gaming) so you haven't seen all of the progression games have made.

While it's great to go back and play games that you grew up with (I love the original Legend of Zelda for NES) I couldn't imagine the entire series playing just like the original. It would get stale and let's face it, the Halo series (up to ODST) had gotten stale. The game play really hasn't changed much, except for the addition of new guns and duel wielding. It was the same game each time.

Bungie made the right move in the direction of ODST. While the fundamental elements that made Halo, Halo are still there. There is a new feel to it. ODST feels like a new Halo not just a repolishing of what had already been done.

If Reach continues the push of the series then it'll be a wonderful addition to the series not just another Halo 2 version 3 (as I consider Halo 3 to be Halo 2 version 2). Games have to progress in order for people to continue playing them and to pick up new people who may have not played previous versions of the games.


Sorry for the long post.

[Edited on 10.13.2009 9:16 AM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:15 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Your getting tired of video games / Halo and no amount of tweaking can fix that. I suggest finding a new series or not playing at all.

  • 10.13.2009 9:22 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Legendary Member

I agree with most of what you said. I have the same memories of Halo 1 and mainly Halo 2.

The problem I have with Halo 3 is, I just don't get the same excited feeling in the multiplayer as I did in Halo 2. I think the maps arn't great, gametypes don't always feel balanced.

In Halo 2, when a map I really liked popped up, I was instantly excited about the up coming gameplay. I never get this feeling about any Halo 3 map.

They seem to change slight things that ruins it. Like Team Snipers in Halo 3 has a motion track, but Halo 2 doesn't. It's things like this that make me want to play Halo 2.

SAS03

  • 10.13.2009 9:56 AM PDT
  •  | 
  • Senior Legendary Member

Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: Sanjeev





It just didn't feel right. I was going about, doing the things I had always done. For the last 2 years. BRing dudes, Grenading,all that fun stuff. But something was wrong... It was Halo 3.

Soon after Halo 3's release, Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare was released. It had its flaws and its Multiplayer was pretty unbalanced to say the least, but it introduced a concept that you are seeing in a lot of games now and its the reason why that game is so popular as well: Progression.


All of that i summarized into these 2 paragraphs.

1. Your concern about the game being Halo 3 is based in the fact that ODST IS Halo 3. The game was supposed to be an expansion to Halo 3 so they didn't change anything. They spent 1 year making this game, so they left the Halo formula and engine intact and just changed a few skins here and there and then added a new story line. It has been hinted that Halo Reach has been in production even before Halo 3 shipped out. That means that Halo Reach WILL have a different feeling.

2. CoD wasnt the first game to introduce any of that, but i guess its the console game that made it popular. Progression wouldnt really work out in Halo. The amount of weapons available in Halo at the moment wont really allow for that (unless they suddenly decide to add all the weapons from the Halo canon). Also if you want to have a carbon copy of CoD with perks and such, the game will not feel like Halo 3 anymore (which was your first concern), it will feel like CoD.

  • 10.13.2009 10:33 AM PDT

If somebody's opinion is being smashed and nobody's helping, I try and help. I use logic and extensive vocabulary (and sometimes self-destructive circular reasoning) to confuse my enemies into submission. Fear me, trolling, fapping creatures of the night. For I. Am your worst nightmare.

It does in my heart cuz I still play it every once in a while.

  • 10.13.2009 10:35 AM PDT

Buzz Lightyear -blam!- owns.

And don't worry. There has been progression in the Halo games. Halo CE was in a large part popular because of it's wide range of editable game types. Halo 2 followed suit with more variety and more options. Halo 3 really broke the ground with forge, which as you can tell from the original maps, was supposed to initially just be a way to add "doodads" and alter weapon placement on a map, and only later was adapted to map making purpouses from the ground up.

Look at any interview with a Bungie employee about forge. They always talk about how they are amazed that their community can take the tools that they were given and create amazing things like grifball or race tracks or MLG just using the power of their creative minds.

...So do you think they are going to stop with the customization that was found in Halo 3? Forge is good enough? Hell no.

As Bungie's last forray into the Halo series, Reach will be so over the top with a completely new forged designed from the start for making maps from scratch and custom game options that anybody can possibly imagine. Up to the final moment they will work hard with sweat and tears and lots of blood to make the game as amazing as possible so we can take the tools they give us and create something legendary.

That is Halo's progression. Its why its remained alive and popular for so long. Its because Halo multiplayer in fact is not really a FPS, but a sandbox game. With new maps, new gametypes, new experiences, Halo Reach will survive in the hearts of gamers for ages.

Believe.

  • 10.13.2009 10:50 AM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

Maybe I need to make myself clear, ODST IS Halo 3: 2. Hell, it has halo 3 right in its name. But, it was a step in the right direction.

1. The New Health Model really aids in amping up the intensity, especially at higher difficulties. Sometimes, in ODST, it gets a bit frustrating but I think that's more of a flaw with the design of the missions rather than the system itself.

2. The Open World Concept added much more connectivity to the campaign which otherwise, would have felt disjointed, like some Halo missions have in the past. This is possibly due to the central location, as opposed to the Location hopping of Halo 2 and Halo 3. Granted, there was NOTHING to do in the city, but the concept is good and it, unfortunately, gets a pass due to the context of the world.

  • 10.14.2009 5:22 AM PDT