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Subject: Halo Reach Perfect Ranking System. Reflects Skill NOT Time Played.

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: ZeroDefiance
H2's ranking system would do the best job.
I wouldn't mind it as an EXP system. It gave bonuses for things that made sense.

  • 10.13.2009 10:28 PM PDT
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H2 system. you win, you rank up. you lose, you de-rank.

  • 10.13.2009 11:20 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

Halo 3's ranking system is pretty much anything but time played. In fact, the system encourages less time played.

I like your idea for a system, though...

  • 10.13.2009 11:22 PM PDT
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I think the CoD system is best. You get points for kills, not wins, and you can enter and leave games as you please, making pairing up a lot quicker, and XP isn't taken for leaving a game.
I'm not saying Reach should be like CoD, but they really messed up the ranking system.

  • 10.13.2009 11:26 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

Posted by: o iTz NiiTRO
I think the CoD system is best. You get points for kills, not wins, and you can enter and leave games as you please, making pairing up a lot quicker, and XP isn't taken for leaving a game.
I'm not saying Reach should be like CoD, but they really messed up the ranking system.


I think it is anything but best. Why are people being rewarded and eventually obtaining the highest rank possible for losing and having a K/D ratio of .00056?

Call of Duty is too easy.

  • 10.13.2009 11:29 PM PDT

Check my masterpiece here.

Everytime you use the BR, your level should go up. Since the BR is the only gun that actually requires skill, this makes sense.

  • 10.14.2009 1:51 AM PDT
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  • Noble Legendary Member
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I need a dropshield dropshield

agree with you

  • 10.14.2009 3:29 AM PDT

Subject: Halo Reach Perfect Ranking System. Reflects Skill NOT Time Played.
Yet in your system, a player gets an average amount of 1 points per slayer game and and average of about 1+5/p (that's 1.625 in 4v4) points per objective game, meaning that your point amount in the long term will be directly proportional to the number of games you've played.

  • 10.14.2009 6:06 AM PDT
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I'd like something like this because I'm sick of people kicking from their co-op games just because I'm a Gunnery Sergent Grade 2 (I've been playing for about a month). However, these sorta things are frustrating because you start to get mad when you're not winning and lose points.

  • 10.14.2009 6:51 AM PDT

the system is to confusing

  • 10.14.2009 8:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Every Xbox 360 game with Matchmaking uses Trueskill to match players. Every single one.

Halo is the only one that shows your trueskill value.


Halo 3 isn't the only one that shows the TrueSkill value, as N+ does too.

Plus, Halo 3 still matches using the TrueSkill method in social playlists, but doesn't show you your TrueSkill value in those playlists.

  • 10.14.2009 9:39 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: minibum
Everytime you use the BR, your level should go up. Since the BR is the only gun that actually requires skill, this makes sense.


So the use of the most unbalanced weapon in the game is evident of skill in your book? You can leave now.

At some point every system is going to be flawed, even Halo2's system had a huge drawback in that fact that you could just point grind with time played, and it was very easy to ride others coattails. The only reason the current trueskill setup sucks wind is due to people with multiple accounts, that is why you run into 40+ ranked people that have no strategy, they just camp firing lanes with the BR, cherry pick, or sit back and let others do the heavy lifting.

  • 10.14.2009 10:51 AM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: minibum
Everytime you use the BR, your level should go up. Since the BR is the only gun that actually requires skill, this makes sense.


So the use of the most unbalanced weapon in the game is evident of skill in your book? You can leave now.

At some point every system is going to be flawed, even Halo2's system had a huge drawback in that fact that you could just point grind with time played, and it was very easy to ride others coattails. The only reason the current trueskill setup sucks wind is due to people with multiple accounts, that is why you run into 40+ ranked people that have no strategy, they just camp firing lanes with the BR, cherry pick, or sit back and let others do the heavy lifting.

So now the question is, how to stop people from making multiple accounts. Since obviously we can't do that, how do we remove the motivation to make multiple accounts?

  • 10.14.2009 10:55 AM PDT

"I was born with Halo, live with Halo...die with Halo."
Bungie forever7 <3
Guide to Canon in the Halo Universe

Im a Bungie veteran. I have and always will serve them well.

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
Ranking, or Matchmaking system?

The matchmaking system will be Trueskill.

I would prefer a Gears of War point system, where you get points for every single thing you do, from damaging an opponent, to spending time in the Hill. And you get points for the damage you deal to people, even if you don't kill them. You get a bonus for finishing the job though.

And you could get bonus points for medal based kills, melees, and sprees.


Honestly, I will always hate True Skill. I really loved Halo 2's ranking system and how you can see where you are online.

  • 10.14.2009 10:55 AM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: minibum
Everytime you use the BR, your level should go up. Since the BR is the only gun that actually requires skill, this makes sense.


So the use of the most unbalanced weapon in the game is evident of skill in your book? You can leave now.

At some point every system is going to be flawed, even Halo2's system had a huge drawback in that fact that you could just point grind with time played, and it was very easy to ride others coattails. The only reason the current trueskill setup sucks wind is due to people with multiple accounts, that is why you run into 40+ ranked people that have no strategy, they just camp firing lanes with the BR, cherry pick, or sit back and let others do the heavy lifting.

So now the question is, how to stop people from making multiple accounts. Since obviously we can't do that, how do we remove the motivation to make multiple accounts?


I honestly think the only way that you will remove that motivation is to remove numbered ranks. If there isn't an achieveable goal, then there is less reason to cheat for it. I've been lobbying for this since Halo2, handle the MM system the same way, but remove the visible rank. It's the same thought process behind their removal of the leaderboards back in the day.

In regards to multiple accounts, the only thing that will stop that is if MS takes action against it, as it is not Bungie's call. Technically it is not cheating, and they are doing nothng illegal by having multiple accounts. MS would need to decide that the effect on their trueskill system is big enough to warrant them stopping some revenue, and I doubt that will happen any time soon.

  • 10.14.2009 11:11 AM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: Mutoid Log
Subject: Halo Reach Perfect Ranking System. Reflects Skill NOT Time Played.
Yet in your system, a player gets an average amount of 1 points per slayer game and and average of about 1+5/p (that's 1.625 in 4v4) points per objective game, meaning that your point amount in the long term will be directly proportional to the number of games you've played.


Your right only to a point. What I ment was that in Halo 3, if you play enough games you will get a high level no matter what your skill. My system is designed to accurately gauge your skill after a certain amount of games. Yea, it would take time to get high levels and the more time you play the more chances you have to increase your skill, but if you play a lot and do bad then you can lose you rank. In Halo 3 even if you suck you probly wont loose your rank. You actualy have to try and lose your rank. That makes no sesne.

  • 10.14.2009 12:35 PM PDT

I'm xAssault12x, and I love the Halo Universe. Discussion please!

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: minibum
Everytime you use the BR, your level should go up. Since the BR is the only gun that actually requires skill, this makes sense.


So the use of the most unbalanced weapon in the game is evident of skill in your book? You can leave now.

At some point every system is going to be flawed, even Halo2's system had a huge drawback in that fact that you could just point grind with time played, and it was very easy to ride others coattails. The only reason the current trueskill setup sucks wind is due to people with multiple accounts, that is why you run into 40+ ranked people that have no strategy, they just camp firing lanes with the BR, cherry pick, or sit back and let others do the heavy lifting.

So now the question is, how to stop people from making multiple accounts. Since obviously we can't do that, how do we remove the motivation to make multiple accounts?


I honestly think the only way that you will remove that motivation is to remove numbered ranks. If there isn't an achieveable goal, then there is less reason to cheat for it. I've been lobbying for this since Halo2, handle the MM system the same way, but remove the visible rank. It's the same thought process behind their removal of the leaderboards back in the day.

In regards to multiple accounts, the only thing that will stop that is if MS takes action against it, as it is not Bungie's call. Technically it is not cheating, and they are doing nothng illegal by having multiple accounts. MS would need to dedcide that the effect on their trueskill system is big enough to warrant them stopping some revenue, and I doubt that will happen any time soon.


True. There is really no way to stop multiple accounts, but if K/D ratio decides part of your rank then no one in their right mind would try to delevel an account. It is extremelty hard to get a K/D ratio up from .0025 so if someone made an account then just did terrible then the account would be useless. Multiple accounts are used to boost and help people level. Trueskill is vulnerable to this kind of sheating, but my system is designed to measure skill based on performance per game and lifetime K/D ratio. Those have to be built up over time and maintained by consistant play. There is now way to cheat that system.

  • 10.14.2009 12:43 PM PDT

Perhaps another way to improve trueskill is to rework the global rank thing.

First, the idea of "once you achieve X skill you will be X skill forever" is silly. If I want to be a general, I can just barely get up to 50, then I'll never have to prove myself again. Your global rank should not only be your *current* highest rank, but an average of your top four highest *current* ranks in various ranked playlists.

How do we prevent people from just never playing in a playlist again after they get their 50 so their adverage never changes?

Lets make ranks "expire". If I'm a 50 in team slayer, and I don't play any team slayer for a month, my rank becomes "50?" and it will no longer count towards my highest adverage. To get rid of the ?, I need only play five ranked games in that playlist for it to count towards my rank for another month. This will weed out the people who just barely reached 50 but aren't strong enough to remain a 50 over a long period of time, and might also prevent the buying and selling of 50s because unless if the buyer is truely at 50 strength he won't be able to maintain his rank and his investment is worthless.

  • 10.14.2009 12:47 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: Uncle Kulikov
The matchmaking system will be Trueskill.
Which is unfortunate since Microsoft couldn't develop a halfway decent ranking system to save their lives.

[Edited on 10.14.2009 12:51 PM PDT]

  • 10.14.2009 12:51 PM PDT
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your dream ranking is horrible

  • 10.14.2009 12:54 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: xAssault12x
True. There is really no way to stop multiple accounts, but if K/D ratio decides part of your rank then no one in their right mind would try to delevel an account. It is extremelty hard to get a K/D ratio up from .0025 so if someone made an account then just did terrible then the account would be useless. Multiple accounts are used to boost and help people level. Trueskill is vulnerable to this kind of sheating, but my system is designed to measure skill based on performance per game and lifetime K/D ratio. Those have to be built up over time and maintained by consistant play. There is now way to cheat that system.


I don't see how you come to that conclusion, as it is really not all that difficult to obtain a k/d above 1.0. You could in effect score the least amount of kills in every game you play, but if you hardly ever die then your k/d will be in the positive. You figure after only 326 games of ranked MM I maintain a k/d of 1.3, how does that prove what kind of player I am? There are people with greater talent that have way more games played and lower k/d's, and there are those who have fewer games with astoundingly high k/d's. Basing a system off of k/d in anyway is a bad call IMO.

I'm also not sure where you get your "facts" about Halo3's system. Playing more games actually hurts your rank, unless you maintain a huge winning streak from the get-go (what people do with 2nd accounts). If you start as a mediocre player, get to rank 25 and then get stuck until you become progressivly better, you have a hard time climbing the latter because there are so many games in your history counting against you.

H3 ranking system takes into account your performance over your entire game history compared against what the system feels the median performer for a set rank is. The more games you have in your history, the better you have to be to advance. I feel the curve is a little too simple, but the system itself is actually quite smart, up until it is ruined by boosters and multiple account users.

  • 10.14.2009 12:55 PM PDT

There is no way to consistently or accurately match players against other players who are close in skill. Even the EXP system proposed in the OP is full of flaws and very easy exploits.

The beginning of those exploits are right in the objectives. Scoring a flag would net exp? Prepare to see your team betraying you to get the flag score and the exp that goes along with it. Same with every single objective type. Instead of working with your team then in slayer, you'd be competing against your team members, because whoever scores more flag caps gets more exp and ranks up quicker. Then it's easy to boost by having one person on your team the designated flag capper who always scores it.

I actually like the expiring rank system as when I come back from not playing for months I can't really hack it very easily my first few games in my usual playlists just because of the rust factor. That's actually the best idea I've seen.

Other than that, ranks should be completely hidden so that you don't see it and you don't get anything for it so that there is no reason to boost and all that. If anything you should just show the amount of exp that the player has earned and maybe their KtD ratio for the playlist you're currently in. That might have people actually playing the game for something.

It would most likely eliminate boosting outside of exp boosting (and since there's an exp ban system in place, it's perfect) and all you'd have to "boost" is your ktd ratio. Why would you want to try and boost that (and by boosting it for one account you're killing it for another. Of course these could be 1 month accounts so who cares, but i digress) especially when your ktd really means nothing other than being able to tell before a game starts if you're most likely to get whomped or not.

tl;dr - There's no perfect ranking system. Nothing outlined by a computer can accurately match two humans against each other of equal skill. All you can do is make the matches more fun by eliminating reasons to boost/cheat.

  • 10.14.2009 12:58 PM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

It should be a % based. About 2% of players will reach level 50 etc.

First play around 10 matches without ranking, then give a rank that changes. At first it might be a bit off, but with time it becomes more accurate.

  • 10.14.2009 1:02 PM PDT

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