Halo: Reach Forum
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Subject: Back to the Roots: More CE than 3

A few years from now nothing you do in this game will have mattered. Your rank, kill/death ratio, win/loss ratio, will get you no where. So, if your going to play the game, do it for the enjoyment.

WARNING Long read! Skip to bottom for conclusion/main point.
Note: If China calls...



I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed a drastic decline the the quality of the Halo series from Halo CE up to Halo ODST. If you really look at it, I shouldn't be.

Halo: Combat Evolved was a revolutionary game. It had a huge impact on FPS gaming. But not just because of the way it played but also the reasons why we played it (over and over again).

That begain with one of the best storylines of all time in a video game. Sure the whole humans vs aliens thing had been done before but you could really tell Bungie was putting in the time to make sure everything made sence and had a purpose. To this day Halo CE still ranks among the top games of all time due to it's great story and mission. IMO nothing has matched it yet. But it is understandable to see why Halo 2 and 3 didn't quite hold the same standard.

When Xbox Live was introduced Halo was still the flagship game of Microsoft and Xbox that being said the success of Xbox Live was counting on a phenominal multiplayer set up from Halo 2. And that is exactly what we got. But it cost the campaign dearly. So much so that Halo 2 didn't really even have an end. We where just left on a cliffhanger for the next few years while Halo 3 got under way. While Halo 2's advanced multiplayer gave the game emense replayability the storyline fell short.

Then came the release of Halo 3. Again the game seemed rushed as Halo 3's campaign was easily beatable in a few short hours and like Halo 2 offered little replayability. And again Halo 3 left some loose ends what with the "Where the hell is MC?" and what does "Wake me if you need me." really mean anyway? So it seemed that once again Bungie had poured most of their time and effort into multiplayer and the other features such as Theatre and Forge.

And so finally and most recently we "landed" with Halo: ODST. And so far it seems as though ODST is another Bungie success and proves that they can still provide a playable title without the big green supersoldier (though it remains to be seen after all these years how they will fare outside the Halo universe). But still after running through the campaign in little more than 3 hours I find myself wanting more. The game could have certinly been longer and while the back stories were fun I felt more like I was playing a RPG at times when searching for clues in the city as Rookie.

Now we find ourselves waiting on the release of Halo: Reach. The prequal to the Halo series. Reach provides the perfect oppertunity for Bungie to get back to the roots of Halo and in a sence, start over new with this game. I hope I can speak for all of us when I say that I hope Bungie will really take their time with this game. While Bungie has said they have plans to release Halo: Reach in early 2010 I for one would not have a problem seeing that date pushed as far back as a year to a year and a half in order to ensure we get our moneys worth and more. With both the replayability in Halo 3's multiplayer and ODST's Firefight Bungie has given the community more than enough to keep us satisfied for awhile while they work on Halo: Reach. I think that it should be in Bungie's as well as the community's best intrest to give Halo: Reach the time it needs to fully develop and ensure that this new game compliments and even surpasses the success of the current Halo games.


P.S.: I apologize for any grammar/spelling mistakes, I am tying this from my laptop and do not have MS Word so no spell check.

[Edited on 10.13.2009 7:50 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 7:50 PM PDT

ooga booga boooh

Do it!

I totally understand what you are saying Zag. I find that the campaign has suffered so hard since CE. I remember that was the best part of the game for me. Sure, LAN was always a blast, but the campaign was amazing.

If I have to wait a little while for the game to come out, so be it. I can wait if it means a better quality game, as opposed to a rushed hot seller. Quality is great than quantity after all.

  • 10.13.2009 7:58 PM PDT

When Nolan Bowen's memory conflicts with reality, everything changes... Partial Reminiscence: Revelation
Perspective
Loyalty
Repercussion

well, this IS the game that they have been focused on since the release of H3 (ODST was a small sub-team)so really they will have worked on it for 3 years. Should be long enough- if they try.

Of course, they could do this again and cut off a good 6 months of actual progress and improvements (WHY?)

But yeah, I really would like to see a high quality, LONG campaign.

I just hope MS doesn't overdo the hype campaign again. Or that there's way too much (mandatory) DLC as H3.

  • 10.13.2009 8:01 PM PDT
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GRUNT BUD!!!!!

Please bungie make a entertaining campaighn for mez?

  • 10.13.2009 8:03 PM PDT

Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...

  • 10.13.2009 8:39 PM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Yeah, too much time was spent on less important stuff.

Halo CE had a fantastic campaign... I <3 HALO CE!!!

  • 10.13.2009 9:15 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...
While it was a glitchy game, Halo 2 so far has the best maps in the entire trilogy while Halo 3 has some of the worst.

Halo 2 also has a better storyline than Halo 3.

  • 10.13.2009 9:19 PM PDT

Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...

Yeah, you know, it wasn't like it was fun or anything. Honestly, compare Halo 2 to another online console game released in the same time frame. In many ways (including storyline) Halo 2 is superior to Halo 3.

[Edited on 10.13.2009 9:21 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:20 PM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: petarded2
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...

Yeah, you know, it wasn't like it was fun or anything. Honestly, compare Halo 2 to another online console game released in the same time frame. In many ways (including storyline) Halo 2 is superior to Halo 3.

In all ways. I borrowed Halo 2 from my stepbrother's friend, and was amazed at how good the story was in comparison to Halo 3.

The MP was better, too.

  • 10.13.2009 9:24 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: CookieMan
Posted by: petarded2
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...

Yeah, you know, it wasn't like it was fun or anything. Honestly, compare Halo 2 to another online console game released in the same time frame. In many ways (including storyline) Halo 2 is superior to Halo 3.

In all ways. I borrowed Halo 2 from my stepbrother's friend, and was amazed at how good the story was in comparison to Halo 3.

The MP was better, too.
Bungies biggest mistake with Halo 3's campaign was removing the Arbiter as a central and playable character.

[Edited on 10.13.2009 9:26 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:26 PM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: CookieMan
Posted by: petarded2
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...

Yeah, you know, it wasn't like it was fun or anything. Honestly, compare Halo 2 to another online console game released in the same time frame. In many ways (including storyline) Halo 2 is superior to Halo 3.

In all ways. I borrowed Halo 2 from my stepbrother's friend, and was amazed at how good the story was in comparison to Halo 3.

The MP was better, too.
Bungies biggest mistake with Halo 3's campaign was removing the Arbiter as a central and playable character.

I would say it was trying to make it too epic, too quickly.

  • 10.13.2009 9:27 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Exalted Heroic Member

Posted by: Zagwire
[quote]While Bungie has said they have plans to release Halo: Reach in early 2010 I for one would not have a problem seeing that date pushed as far back as a year to a year and a half in order to ensure we get our moneys worth and more.
how is fall of next year early 2010

but any way other then that i agree with you i would love the gameplay and fun i had and from time to time still have playing halo:ce

  • 10.13.2009 9:32 PM PDT

The strongest Rivals are also the strongest allies.

ce only good trate was the ai
halo 2 had better gameplay
halo 3....uh, you finished the fight?
odst - was too awesome for words.
reach- will, most likly be the best in the series.

  • 10.13.2009 9:36 PM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: BOB THE DOCTER
ce only good trate was the ai
halo 2 had better gameplay
halo 3....uh, you finished the fight?
odst - was too awesome for words.
reach- will, most likly be the best in the series.

We can only hope that Reach will be good.

  • 10.13.2009 9:37 PM PDT

Every Halo since Halo1 has been a disapointment

That's not to say they they're in any way bad games but the improvements over the years have not been enough to justify why these games in truth just don't feel as awesome as the first outing

Personally i think Halo3 and ODST play a better game than Halo1 thanks to some fantastic combat mechanics but as a whole they absolutely don't compare

I don't think it takes a genius to work out that come Release day for Reach, if this game doesn't at least boast great game length and a truly epic scale to the legendary tale that is Reach, people are going to be mighty p!55ed

Fans have been all the way through this with Bungie and it really is the big one - maybe even to the point that i guess could cost them this time if they screw it up

Personally i would feel more confident Bungie told MS to back off until it's 100% done - not that i know anything in actual fact if this is indeed even remotely the case regarding how MS ar, just the idea that Bungie has pressure to finish in time does my nut



[Edited on 10.13.2009 9:52 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:42 PM PDT
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loved the feeling of solidarity that ce gave you. it had better moods and the open ended feel of the game was great. it was a linear game that didn't feel linear. it felt like you had so many options.

  • 10.13.2009 9:50 PM PDT

The less than a second latency of online play is a better system to play off of than more health.

You realize this system is just as host based, right? because if you're fighting host, or someone with a better connection to host, and you each start firing at the same time, his BULLETS will register first, giving him slightly more health if the melees happen at the same time.

So would you rather have the BS of both, or just one?

-HaVOk1228

-One of the great things about Halo 1's campaign was that it quite honestly did not try, nor need, to tell a story. What story players are given is often cryptic or a simple order to carry out often self explanatory missions.
-Heck the first two missions simply have the player scramble about trying to rally troops or depart the area. Level 3 is a very well done prison break that is only explained in a brief (but still adequate) in between missions bit of dialogue. Missions 4 and 5 have you playing, once again, great guerrilla attacks that only advance the story through some minor cryptic discoveries. While the rest of the game tosses you about on some first and foremost great missions that so happen to serve as vessels for the narrative.
-
-Enter halo 2 and 3 and we suddenly see every cut scene transformed into lengthy cram sessions for "the story bungie wanted to tell" about this (possibly) overly ambitious space opera involving a rushed (and then quickly forgotten) civil war, an eon old strife between ancient aliens and more disease like ancient aliens, and some great secrets held by some crazy religious leaders that despite all this cramming was still only revealed in external materials. I'm all for following alternative media to get a better picture of a story but if you simply cannot explain enough of it to both make sense and not overwhelm the gameplay then just cut some stuff. The covie civil war still feels like the biggest blow to the halo series as all it did was rob us of real foes for the the past 2 games (3 and ODST) whilst only confusing matters by suddenly adding way too much to know about species in the covenant that never existed (game wise) until they were already calling for civil war.
--
-Hopefully enough people at Bungie will realize that some really great missions can be had if they simply let the chaos of the game set an atmosphere of "who cares" across much of the game and let the level designers simply make fun experiences that focus more on varous useful small events (like the silent cartographer's search to unlock some mysterious door, or being led by a mysterious floating ball through a zombie infested space dungeon, or heck even rescuing a character whom is only known before that as simply being an officer of a higher rank (as was the case with the original Keyes)). Don't try to force some story down our throuts, just let level designers make the missions and tell the story team to do what they can with them.
EDIT: On a final note, playable spaces should be prioritized well above pretty ones. The halo series has become more and more good looking (downright beautiful in ODST) but it feels as if some levels are designed to simply look better than they actually play. The flood structures of halo 3 were nice but to be honest their gameplay was trumped by even the empty hallways of halo 1's library (having zombies crawl out of every tunnel and over every wall is better than a straight path with those same zombies forced into kill zones). While forerunner structures seem to be less open and more restrictive in overall direction options (you can find half a dozen ways to move around silent cartographer, or avoid enemies in assault on the control room (and not just with a banshee), but halo 3 just gives us narrow spaces packed with enemies that are almost always on the defensive and will never try to force you from your position(s).

[Edited on 10.13.2009 10:02 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:52 PM PDT

Marine Corps.
Semper Fi.

Posted by: Wikked Navajoe
My problems [with Reach] are basically just full parties, mlg, and people who go out of their way not to get killed.

The games have not really declined in my opinion. Well, in one way they did. It went down for Halo 2 then back up for Halo 3.

I think the hype people put into games are a reason as to why people think the games are declining.

  • 10.13.2009 9:54 PM PDT

Yup as much as i like all the Halo games, Halo1 did something different that always made it a pleasure to be in it's non linear yet linear A to B scenarios

But as well as this, it just felt so much more real an experience than any of what we have played since from them - even though each sequel have all played extremely well

[Edited on 10.13.2009 10:24 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:56 PM PDT

Completely agree 100%. Join my thread: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=38034016

  • 10.13.2009 9:59 PM PDT

Posted by: petarded2
Posted by: disgruntledfan2
Lol. You thought Halo 2's multiplayer was phenomenal. Phenomenal for glitches, poorly balanced weapons, and texture pop-in. That was how phenomenal the game was...

Yeah, you know, it wasn't like it was fun or anything. Honestly, compare Halo 2 to another online console game released in the same time frame. In many ways (including storyline) Halo 2 is superior to Halo 3.


Unreal Championship. Unreal Championship 2. Mechassault. Crimson Skies High Road to Revenge. Even the disappointing Mechassault 2 were all better multiplayer games than Halo 2, and they all kept me entertained while everyone was standbying each other after Halo 2's launch. All games were well polished and therefore more fun. Not to mention the restricting matchmaking process was not yet applied to a majority of games. So I didn't end up playing the same map five times in a row unless I wanted.

I do give you the benefit of Halo 2 having a better story. As long as you admit Tsavo Highway, the Ark, the Covenant, and Sierra 117 were all better maps than anything found in Halo 2.

[Edited on 10.13.2009 10:12 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 9:59 PM PDT

Yes mr Pinke

Story is fine but it's not like it was shoved down our gob at any time in Halo1

The story created itself inside our own imaginations as in truth we didn't really have a great idea what was going on

These days of course it's more a selling point

Mind you i did perfectly enjoy ODST's cutscenes and felt these did lend well to the how the game needed to feel

It's a little unfair expecting so much i guess as so much of Halo1 was simply unkown to us

Just make the damn thing something we want to live in like how many of us did back in those early Halo1 days

Please Bungie just a return to that magic feeling of wanting to play a game so much more than anything else

  • 10.13.2009 10:04 PM PDT

Bungie isn't releasing Reach in early 2010, they are releasing in fall 2010. The Halo Reach beta will likely be in the Spring/Summer of next year.

  • 10.13.2009 10:15 PM PDT

This will be the 4th Halo game from Bungie and in all honesty i'm not overly optimistic

By now we should have had a game that on many levels at least equals what their first astonishing effort.Some things i would guess are impossible to recreate such as it's truly great sense of mystery, but scale and the exquisite level struture design from H1 is definitely something we should have been treated to from Halo3 at least - Tsavo although short was at least a return to form i thought

Iv'e often thought how Bungie must just have managed a fluke in bringing Halo1 so perfectly together and it seems so obviously clear when as a top class dev, you can't reproduce the same magic after 3 more attempts

Yes all great games in their own way and to the point that they are better in some respects, but miles away from feeling like that true Halo1 quality many of us are still craving for

This being Bungie's maybe last game for a while at least, i may just have to except they wont ever manage that true sequel

At least we shall always have Halo1


[Edited on 10.13.2009 10:21 PM PDT]

  • 10.13.2009 10:18 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: Viper Skills
The games have not really declined in my opinion. Well, in one way they did. It went down for Halo 2 then back up for Halo 3.

I think the hype people put into games are a reason as to why people think the games are declining.
While Halo 2 was a decline in quality due to glitches and weapon balance, Halo 2's story was definitly one of the positive things about the game, espeically when compared to Halo 3.

  • 10.13.2009 10:20 PM PDT

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