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This topic has moved here: Subject: Will lack of the BR destroy Reach?
  • Subject: Will lack of the BR destroy Reach?
Subject: Will lack of the BR destroy Reach?
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Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
--Minibum--
That's not skill. That's luck that the random bullet spread might hit the target across the map. Reach needs the BR. Take a look at the other poll about whether Br should or shouldn't be in reach. About 75% of the poll takers voted yes. People want the BR. Halo needs the BR
Take a look at this poll where only 14% of people have voted yes. In fact, pumpkin pie is almost as popular as the BR.

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
1- I said the BR should be in reach, matter in fact that was the first thing i said,
Maybe it should, but only if it is changed to single shot or if it is modified as I specified in my previous post.

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
2- try controlling you fire with the, AR it's almost as accurate as the BR when you burst, the only flaws are it sounds like a bb gun, and the Bullets disappear after a 100 yards, and dose not to enough armor damage
No, the AR sucks. It doesn't give you any chance at all unless you're fighting in close range - but not too close.

Like I said, the BR shows very little skill. It's been dumbed down. I don't think it should be as easy to use as the H2 BR, which was too powerful for how easy it was. But for skill, we need an accurate, single shot weapon that is not randomized. On top of that, add a small reticule as well as reduce or get rid of autoaim. But the fact that the BR is a burst weapon with headshot capability takes all my respect from it to begin with.

See my previous post for the details.

  • 10.14.2009 3:27 PM PDT

A Hell Jumper - Heroic, a Spartan - Legendary, be We're Mythic; Spartan Mythic Team.
Mythic Actual / Mythic 1
Post to everyone who complains about Reach instead of shutting up and playing something else. http://initiativedesignz.webs.com/HaloReachStuff/Fixn.jpg

Posted by: Burned Remains
No, the Covenant will.

  • 10.14.2009 3:28 PM PDT

A Hell Jumper - Heroic, a Spartan - Legendary, be We're Mythic; Spartan Mythic Team.
Mythic Actual / Mythic 1
Post to everyone who complains about Reach instead of shutting up and playing something else. http://initiativedesignz.webs.com/HaloReachStuff/Fixn.jpg

[quote] It's been dumbed down. I don't think it should be as easy to use as the H2 BR, which was too powerful for how easy it was. But for skill, we need an accurate, single shot weapon that is not randomized.[quote] a sniper?

  • 10.14.2009 3:30 PM PDT

Burn in the flame of my passige

i only wouldn't mind if the halo CE pistol was back but the BR is my Fav Weapon so it should be in the game

  • 10.14.2009 3:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: fifthderelicte

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
1- I said the BR should be in reach, matter in fact that was the first thing i said,
Maybe it should, but only if it is changed to single shot or if it is modified as I specified in my previous post.

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
2- try controlling you fire with the, AR it's almost as accurate as the BR when you burst, the only flaws are it sounds like a bb gun, and the Bullets disappear after a 100 yards, and dose not to enough armor damage
No, the AR sucks. It doesn't give you any chance at all unless you're fighting in close range - but not too close.

.


well yah the AR is pointless, but i still use it, it has been my favorite weapon since Halo CE. however the AR is decently accurate when you fire in burst so if you are very good you could get a kill at medium range.

and i agree the BR was supposed the Semi auto, and that is the way it should be

ooh and the first bit was a Quote from Minibum

[Edited on 10.14.2009 3:51 PM PDT]

  • 10.14.2009 3:39 PM PDT

Link

Posted by: minibum
Yes, yes it will. We need BR. How do we seperate the failures from the pro skilled players?
The only ones who need the br are MLG noobs that cant kill with any other gun

  • 10.14.2009 3:43 PM PDT

As long as there is a headshot weapon that rewards skillful aim then it doesn't matter what the weapon is called.

  • 10.14.2009 3:45 PM PDT

Corn, Oil, and Wine... We need more wine...

The lack of a weapon that can be used effictively at nearly any range, can only be an improvement.

  • 10.14.2009 3:49 PM PDT

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
-Benjamin Franklin

What I want to know is, did you find solid evidence that the BR will not appear in Halo: Reach. If you have some then show me. If not then the real discussion should be about if the BR SHOULD be in Reach or not. Even if it isn't we still have the Carbine and the AutoMag :)

  • 10.14.2009 3:50 PM PDT

With B.B. gone, the passion of Bungie.net has lessened.

Posted by: fifthderelicte
Like I said, the BR shows very little skill. It's been dumbed down. I don't think it should be as easy to use as the H2 BR, which was too powerful for how easy it was. But for skill, we need an accurate, single shot weapon that is not randomized. On top of that, add a small reticule as well as reduce or get rid of autoaim. But the fact that the BR is a burst weapon with headshot capability takes all my respect from it to begin with.

See my previous post for the details.


Why does a weapon like that need to be in the game? A single-shot, non-randomized version of the BR?

The way I see it is this: Do as you asked, and what your asking for creates a very crowded potential-long-range category. You would have the carbine, a single-shot, mid-to-long range weapon. The sniper rifle, A single-shot, long-range weapon. The beam rifle. A single-shot, long-range weapon. And possibly the automag, a single-shot, mid-to-long range weapon.

That's four weapons that fit your description. Granted, two are snipers. So what are you asking for? A less-powerful sniper/beam? A more-powerful automag? A more-accurate carbine? All with the ability to aim with precision of a sniper rifle, and the lack-there-of of the same weapon when not zoomed in (by that I mean, no aiming magnetism).

In my eyes, the 3-round-burst of the BR is what allows it to remain in the game without creating a weapon redundancy. It gives it a unique usefulness in certain situations that no other weapon has (the ability to "spread" across the target, or targets). Why take that away? Because you're upset that people who "aren't as good as you" are able to kill you, when you think that they shouldn't be able to since "you're better than them?"

When people like you start describing what they want for a battle rifle, I can hardly see how it really comes down to an argument of skill. It comes down to an argument of aesthetics and personal preference; nothing objective at all.

  • 10.14.2009 3:58 PM PDT

Check my masterpiece here.

If the BR was single shot, that might be pretty cool. But it is sooo sick!

  • 10.14.2009 4:02 PM PDT

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
-Benjamin Franklin

One more thing, If the BR is to appear in Reach it needs major changes first. It gets boring using the same gun over and over again. But heres the catch, its very hard to kill a BR user with anything other than a br/carbine because everything else except the sniper rifle (duh!) has insufficient range to do so unless you can close the distance without getting 4-shotted or if the player with the br that your trying to kill sucks.

  • 10.14.2009 4:02 PM PDT

Posted by: Crisp66
Posted by: WerepyreND
You know what I'm just repost what I said in Halo or COD thread.

"BR lovers claim that it is the only weapon that requires skill, but I just don't think that is true.

A truly skilled player is one who can pick up any weapon around them and be successful with it. A truly great player is one who is not a one-trick pony. I'm not saying that that you can't be a good player if you are proficient one gun in particular. You can be a great sniper or a great driver you just shouldn't put down others for choosing to wield other weapons when you choose to use the best all around weapon in the game whether it is the BR in Halo 3 or the MP40 in CoD WaW.

The problem is that right now not many other weapons besides the BR and Carbine can really fight back effectively against a BR or Carbine.

AR:clip is too shallow and too inaccurate when compared to the BR
Needler: useless unless you hit them with all 7 needles
Magnum: fires too slowly and has an unforgiving magazine.
Spiker: Spikes move too slowly and drop down too fast to be used at any range farther than point-blank.
PP: 26 shots to kill and travels slowly. Its more of a tool then a weapon.
PR: Again, plasma travels slowly and has a very hard time finishing off unshielded foes."

Being able to use a BR does not mean you are skilled. The BR is the best gun in the game with very few negative qualities. If it's in Reach it has to be changed somehow because in Halo 3 it is a terrible starting weapon. A balanced starting weapon is one that allows the player to defend themselves against most threats but still encourages people to use other weapons. The BR doesn't encourage players to use any other weapons and as a result most MM games end up being just a bunch of people running around with BRs and nothing else.

There should only be one starting weapon in Reach and I think it should be similar the ODST SMG.


*like and agree* except for last statement about we need the odst smgs


To add to this,if they follow the books on this one which I think to a certain extent they will, then we should see alot of really cool older guns in game, these could easily replace br

To add to these two posts.

[Edited on 10.14.2009 4:05 PM PDT]

  • 10.14.2009 4:05 PM PDT
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OH MAH GAWD what if they come up with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GUN that we HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE???

  • 10.14.2009 4:07 PM PDT

Check my masterpiece here.

Posted by: Son of Valhalla
OH MAH GAWD what if they come up with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GUN that we HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE???

That would be aweful. I hope Bungie doesn't do that. I want Halo 3 with new graphics. That is my vision of Halo Reach!

  • 10.14.2009 4:15 PM PDT
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Posted by: minibum
Posted by: Son of Valhalla
OH MAH GAWD what if they come up with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GUN that we HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE???

That would be aweful. I hope Bungie doesn't do that. I want Halo 3 with new graphics. That is my vision of Halo Reach!

Inorite?

The ideal version of Reach will be Halo 1 with new graphics. WHAT CAN BE MORE INNOVATIVE THAN SLAPPING NEW GRAPHICS ON AN OLD GAME?

=)

  • 10.14.2009 4:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Why does a weapon like that need to be in the game? A single-shot, non-randomized version of the BR?

The way I see it is this: Do as you asked, and what your asking for creates a very crowded potential-long-range category. You would have the carbine, a single-shot, mid-to-long range weapon. The sniper rifle, A single-shot, long-range weapon. The beam rifle. A single-shot, long-range weapon. And possibly the automag, a single-shot, mid-to-long range weapon.

That's four weapons that fit your description. Granted, two are snipers. So what are you asking for? A less-powerful sniper/beam? A more-powerful automag? A more-accurate carbine? All with the ability to aim with precision of a sniper rifle, and the lack-there-of of the same weapon when not zoomed in (by that I mean, no aiming magnetism).

In my eyes, the 3-round-burst of the BR is what allows it to remain in the game without creating a weapon redundancy. It gives it a unique usefulness in certain situations that no other weapon has (the ability to "spread" across the target, or targets). Why take that away? Because you're upset that people who "aren't as good as you" are able to kill you, when you think that they shouldn't be able to since "you're better than them?"

When people like you start describing what they want for a battle rifle, I can hardly see how it really comes down to an argument of skill. It comes down to an argument of aesthetics and personal preference; nothing objective at all.


I like the Idea of a human semi auto weapon. sure do to the The carbine and magnum, another semi auto weapon would be redundant. but i personally want a HUMAN semi auto, accurate, simple weapon. yes with an acceptation to HUMAN part the carbine fits the bill, but like you said with Ascetics, a human Semi auto weapon would make me happy.

i guess the "auto-mag" could work but i don't like the idea of a side arm that out ranges all the UNMCs rifles


[Edited on 10.14.2009 4:21 PM PDT]

  • 10.14.2009 4:19 PM PDT

I prefer Pumpkin Pie.

  • 10.14.2009 4:29 PM PDT

Check my masterpiece here.

NO! NO ODST AUTO-MAG IN REACH! I WILL BURN BUNGIE TO THE GROUND BEFORE I SEE THAT SORRY EXCUSE FOR A MAGNUM IN HALO: REACH! Bring back CE magnum if anything. But the ODST magnum makes me want to kill people.

  • 10.14.2009 4:29 PM PDT

When Nolan Bowen's memory conflicts with reality, everything changes... Partial Reminiscence: Revelation
Perspective
Loyalty
Repercussion

As long as there is a headshot weapon that rewards skillful aim then it doesn't matter what the weapon is called.

The name is the H3 magnum ;)

  • 10.14.2009 4:33 PM PDT
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Posted by: minibum
NO! NO ODST AUTO-MAG IN REACH! I WILL BURN BUNGIE TO THE GROUND BEFORE I SEE THAT SORRY EXCUSE FOR A MAGNUM IN HALO: REACH! Bring back CE magnum if anything. But the ODST magnum makes me want to kill people.


i don,t have anything clever to say at the moment, but you are going to catch some -blam!- for this quote

  • 10.14.2009 4:35 PM PDT

Posted by: minibum
Posted by: Son of Valhalla
OH MAH GAWD what if they come up with a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT GUN that we HAVEN'T SEEN BEFORE???

That would be aweful. I hope Bungie doesn't do that. I want Halo 3 with new graphics. That is my vision of Halo Reach!

Troll?

  • 10.14.2009 4:36 PM PDT
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Posted by: theHurtfulTurkey
A real test of a man is if he is willing to scrape a sharpened razor up and down his junk just to please a woman.

Posted by: minibum
How do we seperate the failures from the pro skilled players?
Teabagging contests.

  • 10.14.2009 4:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Shai Hulud
Why does a weapon like that need to be in the game? A single-shot, non-randomized version of the BR?
Mid range is where the majority of the game takes place. It's how you control a map, and in Halo, controlling the map is the game. You can hold onto your shotgun, but you won't get anywhere with it. As soon as you try to move, the mid-ranged weapons will own you.

Since most of the gameplay is centered around mid ranged combat, it should be assured that skill takes place here, particularly more than it needs to be assured of anywhere else.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
The way I see it is this: Do as you asked, and what your asking for creates a very crowded potential-long-range category. You would have the carbine, a single-shot, mid-to-long range weapon. The sniper rifle, A single-shot, long-range weapon. The beam rifle. A single-shot, long-range weapon. And possibly the automag, a single-shot, mid-to-long range weapon.
The carbine would be the only mid to semi-long ranged weapon. The very limited scope it currently has prevents it from killing at its maximum potential with ease at anything beyond medium range. But if you're skilled and steady enough, it comes down to just that as opposed to randomness and luck.

As far as the automag, it is single shot, and IMO limited in effectiveness to mid range. It would fill the category of the current BR and would be less deadly than the carbine at anything but the beginning of medium range. You have a carbine and a BR now and we're not overburdened? You have to remember that Bungie often puts themes to their maps. Carbines on one side and BRs on another. You act like there are so many different mid ranged weapons, but you often only find either BRs or Carbines, Beam rifles or sniper rifles. OR, you find covenant on one side and human on the other.

I think you just have Halo 2 syndrome (as I did for some time), where you think the game should not emphasize range. For competitive gameplay you need range, at least in Halo. The CQ weapons are rock, paper, scissors. If you reduce reticule sizes and take away autoaim, you have a larger skill gap and more divided players. It's actually better for the game and means a kill takes skill.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
That's four weapons that fit your description. Granted, two are snipers. So what are you asking for? A less-powerful sniper/beam? A more-powerful automag? A more-accurate carbine? All with the ability to aim with precision of a sniper rifle, and the lack-there-of of the same weapon when not zoomed in (by that I mean, no aiming magnetism).
I'm asking that a burst weapon not be headshot capable. Talk about taking the fun/skill out of SWAT (in terms of aiming, anyway). Anyone can use a BR. You use a carbine or magnum in SWAT and let me know how it goes. All I'm asking for is skill. You keep the carbine as it is, maybe bumping down the power just a little - bump up the accuracy and reduce autoaim and you have a longer ranged weapon (range like the H1 pistol or H2 BR but without the magnetism and autoaim of H2 and the burst shot of H2) that takes skill and holds down a map in skilled hands. It separates the good from the bad and it fits a HUGE gap we're missing now.

Just think about this. If we had Blood Gulch back and you had a sniper, I had a BR and we're all the way across the map from each other. As it stands, I couldn't even ping you until you got at least half way across the map. Sure, the sniper is meant for long range and the BR isn't...in a sense. The BR is supposed to be effective at mid, but it's supposed to do some damage at long range. As it stands, there are quite a few maps (Sandtrap being one) where even with a BR, you don't have a chance to even defend yourself against a sniper. And even in a BR fight at MID range, you find yourself 20 shotting because of the random spread, inaccuracy, and horrible range.

There is a huge discrepency in ranges here in Halo. Everything is CQ, then you've got the BR/Carbine at semi-mid, and then the sniper at long. AR can't even touch the BR at mid to ping it out of scope, the same goes for BR to sniper.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
In my eyes, the 3-round-burst of the BR is what allows it to remain in the game without creating a weapon redundancy. It gives it a unique usefulness in certain situations that no other weapon has (the ability to "spread" across the target, or targets). Why take that away? Because you're upset that people who "aren't as good as you" are able to kill you, when you think that they shouldn't be able to since "you're better than them?"
Well, you've got a lot more redundancy to address in Halo. What isn't redundant? Everything has its counterpart. Like I said, a three round burst is fine. Keep the BR unique. But DO NOT make that burst weapon headshot capable. It ruins the gameplay and takes away skill. And please don't resort to debating with me by telling me I'm worried about people who aren't as good as me beating me. That's very lame, especially for a mythic member.

I miss the days of H2 where I was a 32. I got up to a 40 in H3 in the first week I played, and stopped there for months because I thought it would be too hard to get any higher, having the H2 mindset I did. But I was wrong. This game does little to cull the mediocre from the good anymore. A lot of that has to do with dumbed down weapons. I want a game that allows for better matches. The problem isn't that bad people beat good people, the problem is that good people don't get matched against good people nearly as often as they should (except in MLG). What's wrong with wanting to have a game that allows for larger diversification? Why is it wrong to ask for more variation, more challenge, etc for those who want it? Halo has been decreasing in this, not increasing.

Posted by: Shai Hulud
When people like you start describing what they want for a battle rifle, I can hardly see how it really comes down to an argument of skill. It comes down to an argument of aesthetics and personal preference; nothing objective at all.


There definitely is skill in Halo apart from weapons. There's timing, map control, communication, etc. What I argue is that the weapons do not fit this category. What do I have to do to prove that randomness detracts from skill, unless of course you're going to argue that the skill you're testing is predicting the odds that the 3rd BR bullet from my bullet will miss your head according to the %spread factor. I was pretty sure precision aiming is what we're looking for. Sure, weapons in Halo and other games are limited in range by randomness. But with only certain weapons having HS capability here, which is HUGE, that shouldn't come down to luck and randomness.

I understand where you're coming from. I was anti-BR after H2 as well. I'm not arguing for that BR back, but for a weapon that takes skill to use, not centering gameplay around one that's random. You can keep your random weapons, but why does precision and skill bother you so much? It's amazing that most mythic members I've run into are exactly like you. Just open your eyes and realize that you can have a fun game with precision. You may not be as good at it, but others will have fun with it and the skill level will be redistributed more evenly again.

  • 10.14.2009 4:49 PM PDT

Posted by: minibum
Yes, yes it will. We need BR. How do we seperate the skilled from the no skilled players?

i think thats what you meant to say

  • 10.14.2009 4:51 PM PDT