Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: CTF flag bouncing
  • Subject: CTF flag bouncing
Subject: CTF flag bouncing

Posted by: LinkLegend0
but it ruins the game making it exeedingly hard to catch the flag and even then to return it.
It gives away their position, if your complaining that its harder to get them when the flag juggle then you just suck.

But thats just the point you see? It doesn't always give away their position. Any small ammount of Lag can absolutely kill that flag waypoint marker and prevent it from being seen. I can not count how many times that I have spawned at the invisibillity on Standoff and I have looked across the base as the flag was stolen and not known which way the flag carrier was taken until I was in visual range of him halfway across the map because his waypoint marker wasn't showing up and I was trying to search for him.

If its going to be "officially" in the game as you want it, shouldn't it be at least balanced?

And perhaps its nice to speed up the game on larger maps by flag running, but what about smaller maps like ghost town? Such maps are ruined by flag running, somebody gets the flag out of the base, and then its a downhill battle for the rest of the round with people just suiciding so they can flag run the flag a few more feet. If they were forced to walk, it wouldn't be an issue.

How about an option to turn flag running on and off? So on small maps where it just completely defeats the action, it can be turned off for those gametypes, and if its turned off, make sure that the flag waypoint doesn't dissapear until two seconds after you pick up the flag so it is visible even through lag.

Its only fair right? You shouldn't be able to be both fast and stealthy. Its unbalancing.

  • 10.18.2009 7:32 AM PDT

it is a tactic, stop crying because you suck.

  • 10.18.2009 7:38 AM PDT

Really??
Posted by: MLD ShortStuff
"Oho, I'm a PrO sKiLlEd MLG pLaYa who flag runs, so I'm going to disagree with this guy cause I can't score the flag any other way".
Stop the BS please people. It cheats the system. When you're holding the flag you run slower in the default Halo 3 gametypes. Sure call both of us "noobs" (look up the definition of "newb" for me would you) but that doesn't change the situation. It just makes you feel better about yourselves. I personally agree with the OP and think that flag running should be abolished in Reach.

  • 10.18.2009 7:46 AM PDT

Posted by: DARK4NGEL
it is a tactic, stop crying because you suck.

Its a tactic, yes? But is hiding not a tactic too? What about hostbooting? Anything to win right?

What we are discussing right now is whether or not it should be a tactic. We very well know that it is.

[Edited on 10.18.2009 7:49 AM PDT]

  • 10.18.2009 7:49 AM PDT

φ

Posted by: kalle90
Anyone can do it, forward+jump+RT+B


Fix'd

[Edited on 10.18.2009 7:54 AM PDT]

  • 10.18.2009 7:54 AM PDT

Posted by: DARK4NGEL
it is a tactic, stop crying because you suck.


Glitching is also a tactic, that doesn't make it suck less.

  • 10.18.2009 8:01 AM PDT
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FLAG DROPPED, FLAG TAKEN, FLAG DROPPED, FLAG TAKEN, FLAG DROPPED, FLAG TAKEN...

YOU WIN, CRYBABY LOSES

  • 10.18.2009 8:39 AM PDT

Flag Taken. Random teleport to win. Nonglitcher loses, swears up storm.

  • 10.18.2009 8:45 AM PDT
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HAHA! This is the stupidest thing I have seen on this Forum. "Flag running is ruining the game", LOL.

Smart: Drop run the flag, so you can move faster.

Dumb: Run with the flag and become a vunerable target.

Tactic, not cheating.

  • 10.18.2009 8:56 AM PDT
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It's a tradeoff, and i do believe Bungie liked the way it ended up. Was it intended? No. Is it a good addition to the game? Yes, if you want to go stealth don't flag run, if you want to sprint, flag run. If you can't catch him, don't give them a lead.

Also, with the lag comment, flag running in lag will actually slow you down, as you'll still move flag-speed slow, so there's no flag-running problem there.

  • 10.18.2009 8:57 AM PDT

gonna point out to you that ur a freakin moron... sure some kids here think that its great cause they cant score ne other way... but others such as my self see flag running as something u do at an opportune time and mix it in with covert running to make sure that you get the cap... besides that if anyone on this forum played my team in objective... wed have them constantly down before we grabbed the flag so we wouldnt need to flag run neways... ANDDDD half of the time me and my team go covert with it neways... but THE POINT REMAINS THAT everyone who wants it gone doesnt know how to do it and doesnt know how to chase a guy properly so that they can catch up... ITS NOT THAT HARD... and for all of the supposed fixes to get rid of flag running... they make the game not let you pull off amazing plays... like the 2 seconds to repick-up the flag... if ur running in on a flag thats almost returned or ur running a flag and some guy starts shooting u and its a 5 second reset... obviously your going to drop the flag to try and fight back... well during those fights you have to keep picking back up the flag so it doesnt reset midfight...
ive had fights where i grab the flag 6 or 7 times while dancing around shooting some guy... so that fight couldnt happen with a 2 second grab thing... also if they make it so it has no added inertia then it makes it so that you can no longer throw your flag to a team mate thats on higher ground so that you could turn and fight ppl to hold em off for your team... theres nothing wrong with flag running AT ALL... so stop trying to argue a point thats not even right...


DONT TRY TO FIX THINGS THAT ARENT BROKEN!!!

  • 10.18.2009 9:25 AM PDT

Posted by: Redraven1992
1 i am not a noob
2 ya it gives away there possition but on a map like last resort or high ground u dont have time to catch them anyways because they move to fast and to far for u to stop them.

even if u do its so close to there spawn and to far from youres so they just continue the pull and get away.

this is just something id like fixed in reach, if that makes me a noob for disliking this then whatever



You're acting like a noob. If you don't flag run, then you do not capture the flag alot. People who think that it is annoying, should lower there volume. Try it for your self. See how effective it is.

  • 10.18.2009 9:57 AM PDT

now he fights and loses
got all the bruises
will someone please step in?

it was originally so you could pass it to teammates, not so you can just rush it yourself.
Now I see a lot of people saying "You suck if you don't/can't do it." That's just kind of a dick thing to say. I'm not calling you an ass for doing it, but I am saying I think its unfair and I don't choose to use it. A real tactic IMO is having someone pick up the flag guy on a vehicle. Its much faster than either option, and its totally legit.
Lets just say bouncing is like camping, its really lame, and amazingly annoying if the other team does it, but its in the game and we might as well learn to deal with it.

  • 10.18.2009 9:57 AM PDT
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Get over it. If it bothers you that much just stop playing Halo. Dibbling is a valid flag running tactic that has been used since Halo Combat Evolved. If Bungie ever intended to remove it as another pathetic handicap then they would have done it already.

  • 10.18.2009 10:08 AM PDT

Cave Johnson here, we're done!

PS: If you are reading this comment while imagining my voice, don't panic. That's just a side effect of the testing.

Posted by: II Examine II
P.S. There was some guy a few pages back who said that the BR makes half the weapons useless, taking away "half the fun".

GREAT LOGIC BRO! So like, I'm sure if they took out the BR and then DOUBLED the amount of weapons, I could have like, FOUR TIMES THE FUN I'M HAVING NOW, RIGHT?

-blam!- idiot.


I guess I'm the idiot two pages back.

In a sense it does take away half the fun. Not literally, that statement was not supposed to be examined with an objective mindset.

The statement was pointing out that when you have a dominant weapon the others are useless. And halo having a variety of weapons makes for a wider base for different gameplay. The BR has certain advantages to it that other weapons lack. I'm not saying that it can't be beat and because of that it is bad for gameplay. What I am trying to say is that it causes repetitiveness, and if a game had br starts most likely people would not pick up another weapon. That's where it ruins gameplay, the mundane repetitive task of finding the nearest BR and nothing else ruins the point of other weapons.

It is great for competitive gameplay where you want to have equality, and especially for MLG games.

I don't have a problem with flag bouncing or whatever you feel like calling it. But some people do find the constant "Flag taken, flag dropped" very annoying.

  • 10.18.2009 10:47 AM PDT

i know by posting in here i am asking to be flamed. but in reality i will probably not see your response . mostly because i am an mlg player as we are known as and you guys view things differently than i do. But i will say you guys are being selfish. You guys prett much had halo built to work for you. but that's not enough for you. you guys want the br gone, you want everything default, and now you want something that has been around since before most of you and that's flag running. how about you deal with wat the game gives you instead of removing it . if you hate the br dont use it. if you dont want to play customized gametypes, dont play them . if you don't like mlg, dont play it . it's really that simple. yes in mlg we complain about certain things just like you guys. such as xbl lag, even people eating shots on lan. And none of us do like the ar. in my opinion the ar is a weapon that requires the least skill. I dont like that weapon, so i dont use it . I like the br, even though the spread is pretty crappy. but none the less i like it . take what the game give you and run with it. if you dont like something , avoid it. they will never get rid of flag running, because it's on of the few things that keeps bungies hardcore players around (mlg). oh and this cant be ignored, i feel it's completely ignorant that the bungie.net community and the mlg community are at each others throats over a video game. i like this video game as much as the next but wow i wouldnt be saying all kinds of crap like i've been hearing on both sides. i guess i had to deploy to realize it . lol . well peace.

  • 10.18.2009 10:49 AM PDT
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The argument that its a "legitimate strategy" is just silly. It's abusing an exploit, plain and simple. Flag throwing (AKA: Daisy Chaining) is the unintended result of a game mechanic that wasn't thoroughly vetted by Bungie before publishing.

But I laugh because the people that call this a legitimate strategy are probably the same people that supported Super Jumping in Halo 2 and think getting outside the map boundaries isn't exploiting a bug.

FYI: Abuse of bugs and exploits are against XBox Live's user agreement. You can check it out here: http://www.xbox.com/zh-SG/live/legal/termsofuse.htm

5. How You May Not Use the Service.

In using the Service, you may not:

o exploit a bug, or make an unauthorized modification, to any software or data to gain unfair advantage in a game, contest, or promotion.


Violation of the user agreement is grounds for a player review. A negative player review can result in a ban from Live.

[Edited on 10.18.2009 12:19 PM PDT]

  • 10.18.2009 12:17 PM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

Posted by: BarroomHero
it was originally so you could pass it to teammates, not so you can just rush it yourself.
Now I see a lot of people saying "You suck if you don't/can't do it." That's just kind of a dick thing to say. I'm not calling you an ass for doing it, but I am saying I think its unfair and I don't choose to use it. A real tactic IMO is having someone pick up the flag guy on a vehicle. Its much faster than either option, and its totally legit.
Lets just say bouncing is like camping, its really lame, and amazingly annoying if the other team does it, but its in the game and we might as well learn to deal with it.


To promote passing it to teammates, the flag should stick to ground if it hits the ground. The flag is really heavy, so it should dig well into the ground when dropped. A player must stop next to it to pull it up.

But if you could pass it to teammates through air, more teamwork and skills for you.

  • 10.18.2009 12:40 PM PDT

well if your calling it a bug or an exploit there goes the the MLG community, the Forge community, the whole halo community( because eating shots like the cookie monster is a bug), just pretty much everyone would be banned if you are saying its a bug. Halo 3 is a bug fest so everyone should be banned then
/facepalm

ok real sitiuation for all you anti- flag running people
if you were running a flag that slowed you down with youn using two hands and rendered you almost useless and made you the biggest target in the world. would you throw it to give you a little boost while your teamates are getting killed so you have a slight chance of getting to your base while your teamates spawn or just waltz all slow being chased down with the AR with all your teamates dead while your still in their base

there is no such thing as stealth in halo besides invis
when someone gets behind you they got behind you because they push through a hole in your setup or because your whole team is dead
or in the MLG community we call it a Sneaky Beaver

someone metion saying its unfair but the real fair way is to use a vehicle... -_-
there are no vehicles on Pit, Narrows and Heretic
Those are real CTF maps

[Edited on 10.18.2009 12:56 PM PDT]

  • 10.18.2009 12:51 PM PDT

So basically the argument against flag running is this,

Kids who like MLG do it, therefore it must be taken out.
Its an exploit that ruins the game.

The argument for it goes like this,

It doesn't hurt the game but the announcer is really annoying.
Kids who support taking it out are just whining.

If you try to get rid of flag running you will just see something else spring up in its place, then we will have this conversation all over again. This is just a silly argument over who thinks what is right, and both sides are just bringing out the worst in each other. As I said in my previous post the OP makes some good points but there is no reason to fix what isn't broke. Bungie is better off spending their time making the Trueskill system actually work and fighting boosters/quitters/standbyers instead of pleasing the casual players.

I have played Halo since it was released almost 10 years ago both casually and competitively. I can also tell you that what makes the game great it what makes it really annoying at the same time. If you have a problem with the game maybe you should find ways to counter the tactic rather than saying that the game is broke and needs to be fixed.

  • 10.18.2009 1:24 PM PDT

ghey

Posted by: Cazafex7
Posted by: guado elite
Posted by: Bad Wolf Claw
Flag running is a legitimate tactic, it's not annoying and doesn't hurt the CTF gametype.

Regardless of whether you think its fair or not its still abusing an exploit in the game just like double tapping in halo 2. Best just take the flag from your team mate if he tries it.


using the physics of the flag that bungie put in the game is considered exploiting now? next time i launch a rocket at a guy and it gets deflected by a nade exploding ill tell make sure i tell him he's exploiting

sorry for double...
yeah im sure bungie thought it would be an awesome feature for the whole 2 teams to hear flag taken flag dropped for like a whole minute

  • 10.18.2009 2:34 PM PDT

it's called strategy...if you keep asking to take out these elements, you'll be playing Team ARs on Foundry Canvas every game.

  • 10.18.2009 2:36 PM PDT

this whole thread fails so hard

1. the majority of ppl will only run the flag when spotted or if they're playing ppl that know how to play the game and they will know where they are going anyways (or at least have an idea to where he is going)
2. im assuming that you've only played a couple of games of ctf when this has accured because personally i do not mind it at all.
3. running the flag adds on a skill that needs to be added to such a "casual gamer" based game.

  • 10.19.2009 10:13 AM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: Myreaper 8
Posted by: ericstifer
Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Hayabusawarrior
It also gives away their position. But its a trade off

But it wasn't an intended tradeoff. Bungie never intended for people to flag run. But you are correct that it is an interesting tactical balance. Do I go fast and blow my way out of there or do I go slow and sneak out?

But because it was never intended, it isn't exactly 100% balanced. For example, its hard to see where the flag is at when someone is flag running sometimes, I know on standoff I usually have to get within visual sight of the flag runner to see where he is instead of just being able to look at the flag waypoint symbol to figure out where he is.

To fix this, the flag waypoint symbol should dissapear two seconds after you pick up the flag, this way you could track where a flag runner is the entire time when he is flag running, not just in the flashes where he drops it.

Seems fair, right? Make the tradeoff much more obvious?


i like that idea for fixing the problem in halo 3. as for Reach, the problem will be addressed in some way. i personally like the ideas of not being able to pick up the flag for 5 seconds or being forced to walk slow after a drop, kinda like how they made the player movement speed almost none after you get boarded. the later would force the player to think about the situation before dropping the flag. i really depends on if the BR is in reach or not though. if youre being shot from a BR at a distance while holding the flag your pretty screwed if you cant move since it is such an over powered weapon at a distance.


I'm sorry, but your ideas are not very good. What happens when you're carrying the flag and an enemy appears in front of you?

With the player movement reduction idea, you would stand no chance after dropping the flag since you wouldn't be able to strafe or follow your opponent with the reticule in a battle.

And your idea of having to wait 5 seconds in order to pick up the flag again makes no sense either. Let's say you win your battle in the previous example and then what? Am I supposed to stand around for another few seconds doing nothing and just waiting?

The only idea I've read so far that isn't completely bad is having the flag icon delay. Although one can argue that it isn't too hard to just look around for it. Either way, I'm not too fond of implementing any of these ideas or changes to flag running into Reach. And Bungie seems to agree with the arguments I stated above or else they would have changed it already in H3.


hmmm, well first off if you can win an encounter in less then 3 seconds id be impressed. 3 seconds is REALLY fast. only a few weapons will kill that quick and most are close ranged...i.e. shotgun, mauler, sword, hammer...rockets as well. id say if you are really concerned about it make it so its either 3 seconds or until you register a kill...easy way fix the problem. flag running is not a strategy, its an exploit.

  • 10.19.2009 11:30 AM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: guado elite
Posted by: Cazafex7
Posted by: guado elite
Posted by: Bad Wolf Claw
Flag running is a legitimate tactic, it's not annoying and doesn't hurt the CTF gametype.

Regardless of whether you think its fair or not its still abusing an exploit in the game just like double tapping in halo 2. Best just take the flag from your team mate if he tries it.




using the physics of the flag that bungie put in the game is considered exploiting now? next time i launch a rocket at a guy and it gets deflected by a nade exploding ill tell make sure i tell him he's exploiting

sorry for double...
yeah im sure bungie thought it would be an awesome feature for the whole 2 teams to hear flag taken flag dropped for like a whole minute


haha, valid point :)

[Edited on 10.19.2009 11:33 AM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 11:32 AM PDT