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Subject: How will the game be balanced? Will there be AR rushers only? Discuss

Bears.Eat.Beets....Bears.Beats.Battlestar Galactica.

Yeah, they some BRs on Reach, and if you remember from the book, the Spartans' weapon locker on the Pillar of Autumn was destroyed, making it necessary for John to use the ARs and awesome pistols in Halo CE.

  • 10.19.2009 10:39 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
Who knows???

And AR rushing wouldn't exist if the Melee wasn't overpowered.


There are too many factors to blame it on one thing, the melee is a huge part of it though, and not just how powerful it is.

Posted by: Hylebos
Posted by: Fos Tis Krisis
And AR rushing wouldn't exist if the Melee wasn't overpowered.

Actually, AR rushing wouldn't exist if people had the common sense to stick them in the face before they got within melee range.


Easier said than done, also a pretty situational tactic.

Teach those fools to strafe while advancing so its harder to get hit.

That was probably some of the worst advice I have ever read. Strafing with the AR is almost counterproductive.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
The weapon doesn't promote this, inexperience does.


I'm calling bull-blam!- on this. I see this "tactic" at the highest levels of MM. If you have the lead, many teams take the "smart" strategy and just try and trade kills. There isn't any point in putting yourself in a situation where you know you can get outplayed when you can take the road of attempting to swap kills until the game is over.

Posted by: jordanJ
Halo needs a good Medium range weapon, just not one that dominates everthing else.


No Halo has ever existed where the mid range weapon has dominated everything else. The closest we've come is Halo 2, and that was only because of button glitches.

Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: RandomOccurence
Its just a matter of preference. The BR is a good all around weapon.

A little bit too good if you ask me.


*looks at level*
*looks at join date*
*looks at when player started playing Halo 2*
*laughs to cover up the tears*

  • 10.19.2009 11:15 AM PDT

i like me...

Posted by: RandomOccurence
Nah lol. I just prefer a BR. Carbine is good, dont get me wrong, but I've been using a BR forever.


maybe its time for some.............oh wait whats that dreaded word that you are so scared of............oh wait....CHANGE! get over it this is a new game, this is not an updated halo 3.

  • 10.19.2009 11:44 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Mr. Bill, you don't need to be a seasoned Halo player to undestand that all the Halo games had their fair share of issues. Halo CE's pistol dominated like none other. It had the highest range gradient to its effectiveness in killing. It killed the fastest outside the Shotgun, Sniper and Rocket and it had a heavy clip with a scope. The BR was the same, the only difference being it was made into a far more inconsistent weapon with bursts, had heavy AA in Halo 2 and it literally dominated everything else. Halo 3 balanced it out more but that was by making the weapon even more counterproductive through more spread which heightens the inconsistency even more.

The BR should be a five-six shot, scoped semi-auto rifle which can pressure but not dominate.

  • 10.19.2009 11:51 AM PDT

Clearly because the desktop uses a 3 prong plug and a laptop uses a 2 prong plug, the microwave will fill your car with tostitos better

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Mr. Bill, you don't need to be a seasoned Halo player to undestand that all the Halo games had their fair share of issues. Halo CE's pistol dominated like none other. It had the highest range gradient to its effectiveness in killing. It killed the fastest outside the Shotgun, Sniper and Rocket and it had a heavy clip with a scope. The BR was the same, the only difference being it was made into a far more inconsistent weapon with bursts, had heavy AA in Halo 2 and it literally dominated everything else. Halo 3 balanced it out more but that was by making the weapon even more counterproductive through more spread which heightens the inconsistency even more.


You act like the Pistol or any incarnation of the battle rifle (aside from pre-patch 05) dominates. They have the potential to come close to dominating in the hands of a skilled player. Play 5 games of Halo CE with Slayer Pro settings and tell me how often you get a 3SK on another player of around equal skill. I bet you would be able to count it on one hand. Its too bad no human being possessed the skill to wield the pistol even close to the potential it had.

Actually, while we are at it, play 5 games of Halo with default settings except you start with a BR and count how many times you 4 shot someone.

Lets not forget that the domination of the pistol was lessened by other weapons that weren't as versatile or strong or have as fast of a kill speed having unique functions or at least weren't the situational sandbox of weapons that we have been presented wit in Halo today. Back then the central mid range weapon of Halo was very strong, but all of the other weapons were stronger in some way too.

The BR should be a five-six shot, scoped semi-auto rifle which can pressure but not dominate.

Maybe a 3rd nerfing will do the trick. Pre-patch 2005 H2 BR anyone?

  • 10.19.2009 12:06 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Rakata
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Here is the stupidity of blaming the AR for the "rush" tactic that your complaining about, anyone with half a brain will not run into an opponent while shooting with the intent on meleeing them, that is foolish. The weapon doesn't promote this, inexperience does.

The AR does it's job in the right hands, a short-short mid autorifle. The BR on the other hand is entirely off-balance, allowing for strong performance accross the spectrum, this is a problem that needs to be a fixed.

The AR doesn't "newbify" gameplay anymore than the BR makes a player PRO. They are both weapons that offer an avenue of attack, but while the AR's is limited (as it should be) the BR's offering is far broader, hence far more appealing.


It doesn't work on short range since the AR guy will RT + B you.


Again if your "jousting" with the guns, that is your fault. I've outshoot and been outshot with BR's multiple times at close range. The only up close situation a BR fails in is against pointblank weapons (shotty, mauler, sword).

It doesn't really work on midrange since you can't even 4-Shot a guy from Top Gold to top snipe tower on guardian.

Your kidding right? Doesn't work from midrange? That's the whole weapons appeal, and most of the game is currently played from mid-range. Certain maps that don't promote fire-lane camping (thank god) will hurt the BR, and that's a good thing, but the weapon itself functions on mid just fine.

And it doesn't work on long range since not a single bullet is hitting on long range because the damn weapon is spreading.

Again, I don't know what game your playing/watching cause the BR can make shots at longer range, not sniper distances, but long range. I certainly understand the issue with spread, but that does not render the weapon as useless as you are making it sound in your post, if anything it is one of the few things (if not the only thing) that brings the weapon "down to earth".

  • 10.19.2009 12:10 PM PDT
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  • Fabled Legendary Member

The pistol was a great weapon, you guys make it sound like everyone gets TSK's all the time. I don't even get that many 4 shots per game, maybe 1-3, and TSK's are much rarer.

Watch this video and count the TSK's. I distinctly remember seeing one, I probably missed some but that is a far cry from the god weapon that you guys are talking about. The people in this video are very good and I've seen them take 8 shots to get a kill, stop acting like the pistol or the even weaker BR nullifies other weapons, that is just false.

  • 10.19.2009 12:33 PM PDT

If I never ever made another cent
I still really wouldn't be so worried
Gold dust at my feet
on the sunny sunny side of the street

Needs more headshot-capable weapons, or at least more mid-ranged weapons instead of 100 melee weapons.

  • 10.19.2009 12:57 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
You act like the Pistol or any incarnation of the battle rifle (aside from pre-patch 05) dominates. They have the potential to come close to dominating in the hands of a skilled player. Play 5 games of Halo CE with Slayer Pro settings and tell me how often you get a 3SK on another player of around equal skill. I bet you would be able to count it on one hand. Its too bad no human being possessed the skill to wield the pistol even close to the potential it had.

The weapon wouldn't be so unanimously praised if it wasn't dominating in some way. The Pistol was well balanced but overpowered in Halo CE compared to the rest of the weapon set. The BR isn't so badly matched but it still dominates. It kills faster than every weapon with the use of a grenade (save for the pistol, carbine, rocket and sniper and shotgun). All other weapons are outclassed by its performance unless they can get in a melee and even then the BR can come out on top. It is more all purpose than the AR is at times.

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Actually, while we are at it, play 5 games of Halo with default settings except you start with a BR and count how many times you 4 shot someone.

I can 4 shot an incredibly high number of times in Halo 2, but not so much in 3 (not because I can't aim, but because the weapon can't stay consistent in its firing pattern). The BR's dominance on top of its inconsistency makes for stale game play of which the outcome is solely dependent on who happens to have more of their 3 shots land first.


Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Lets not forget that the domination of the pistol was lessened by other weapons that weren't as versatile or strong or have as fast of a kill speed having unique functions or at least weren't the situational sandbox of weapons that we have been presented wit in Halo today. Back then the central mid range weapon of Halo was very strong, but all of the other weapons were stronger in some way too.

The pistol killed faster than everything in killing save for the power weapons of extreme ranges. Three shots for the kill (well, usually four due to the difficulty). From my experience and my friends, due to my skill with the pistol I would honestly destroy all my friends in the game so I removed it whenever we played (or just declared it off limits). This not only made the game more interesting but balanced weapon usage throughout the game.

The pistol was balanced, but overpowered. It worked with the weapons given but it also ended up being the only weapon used (countless pistol fests on Halo PC are coming back to my mind.)

  • 10.19.2009 1:21 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

The majority of the weapons in Halo CE were overpowered.

  • 10.19.2009 1:30 PM PDT
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Posted by: Foahda
The majority of the weapons in Halo CE were overpowered.


So they were balanced? What?

If a majority were overpowered, meaning they're all very strong, wouldn't that imply that their equal I.E: Balanced?
Maybe not but it's getting close.

Halo: CE was amazingly balanced, more so than 2 or 3.

  • 10.19.2009 1:32 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Not really. The Needler was powerful, but it lacked range and clip size. The PR was only a truly great killer if you came from behind and caught them with the freeze. The PR was powerful when rapidly fired but the bolt was a pain to hit anything with. The AR was faster at everything but weaker at the same time, its only unique trait being that it blinded you. The rocket was a nuke, and that was also its balancing point while the Sniper was difficult to hit with due to a slight lead being required and the lack of recoil made it awkward to shoot. Lastly, the shotgun was plain point blank use and was extremely limited.

Halo CE had great balance because all the weapons felt incredibly deadly yet they still provided enough time for players to make tactical choices.

  • 10.19.2009 1:36 PM PDT

"Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
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click it you know you want to

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
and about the halo CE pistol. i would not mind it. if it had a damage fall-off mechanic that restricted it to close range

Actually, in H:CE, the M6D had a range of aproximatly 10-20 meters, depending on skill, and was acurrate up to about 9 meters.

  • 10.19.2009 1:43 PM PDT

Posted by: Xx Mr Bill xX
Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: RandomOccurence
Its just a matter of preference. The BR is a good all around weapon.

A little bit too good if you ask me.


*looks at level*
*looks at join date*
*looks at when player started playing Halo 2*
*laughs to cover up the tears*

*Laughs at people's ignorance*
I like to play customs with my friends way more than being paired with randoms in Matchmaking.

Anyways, it's too powerful (Four shot) to be that common and that large of clip and ammo.

[Edited on 10.19.2009 2:16 PM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 1:47 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

I could smack enemies at 1/4 the distance of Blood Gulch with the Pistol personally.

[Edited on 10.19.2009 1:49 PM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 1:48 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Posted by: jordanJ
Posted by: Foahda
The majority of the weapons in Halo CE were overpowered.


So they were balanced? What?

If a majority were overpowered, meaning they're all very strong, wouldn't that imply that their equal I.E: Balanced?
Maybe not but it's getting close.

Halo: CE was amazingly balanced, more so than 2 or 3.


Exactly. People seem to forget how powerful other guns than the pistol were. The Rockets were nukes. The sniper shot incredibly quickly, the shotgun was incredible, the PR has stun and slowed down people's aim. Even the AR could kill things rather quickly up close AND you could quick camo with it. Instead of nerfing all the guns, they should've just powered up the few that were lacking, or given them a useful element so they would be used more. They did this with the plasma pistol in Halo 2.

I love Halo CE, and I hope Halo: Reach brings the game back to that gameplay style. The game was won not just by map control, but weapon control, which caused movement based gameplay, rather than stagnating standoffish gameplay. The Pistol was a key aspect in making the game's pacing so much better. The maps weren't spectacularly designed, but they were simple, and even though sometimes the power weapon locations seemed irrationally placed, the maps still played spectacularly, unlike Halo 2 or Halo 3 where weapon placement makes or breaks maps in some cases.

[Edited on 10.19.2009 2:02 PM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 1:48 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Did you ever play Halo PC? The pistol was so overused it was annoying.

  • 10.19.2009 1:50 PM PDT

I'm just a guy like you that plays halo.

All Hal Rech needs is:

1. Get rid of BR
2. Improve AR with longer range and accuracy and keep the br alongside with it.

  • 10.19.2009 1:54 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Did you ever play Halo PC? The pistol was so overused it was annoying.


I played Halo CE on XBC and the occasional Halo PC. The reason the pistol is used so often is because it's a versatile weapon. It doesn't excel in any specific range, but it can effectively kill people in almost any situation, if you can use it. Not to mention it is a starting weapon, and starting weapons are always overused, like the AR and BR in Halo 3.

Now, I am normally talking about the game on smaller to mid range maps. I never really played bigger maps to a large extent, but from my experience, the pistol would be overused on those maps simply because it is effective at the range created by the size of the map, not because it is overpowered.

[Edited on 10.19.2009 2:04 PM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 2:01 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Foahda
I played Halo CE on XBC and the occasional Halo PC. The reason the pistol is used so often is because it's a versatile weapon. It doesn't excel in any specific range, but it can effectively kill people in almost any situation, if you can use it. Not to mention it is a starting weapon, and starting weapons are always overused, like the AR and BR in Halo 3.

The AR is overused not because its a good weapon, but because you spawn with it. which is fine. The Pistol was not a standard spawn weapon in Halo CE gametypes (it was only so in Slayer Pro). But it had the same problem as the Halo 2 and 3 BR's, it was more useful than everything else and it function exceptionally well in any situation (save for melee except for the grenade glitch for double melee). The AR was supposed to have the flexibility role yet the Pistol, a backup weapon, stole that from it. There is a problem with that.

The only true difference between the Pistol and latter Halos was the number of spawn points. Even the largest maps would only have one or two spawn points for the Pistol where Halo 2/3 have 4+ spawn points on ever map for either the BR or Carbine.

[Edited on 10.19.2009 2:06 PM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 2:04 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: Foahda
I played Halo CE on XBC and the occasional Halo PC. The reason the pistol is used so often is because it's a versatile weapon. It doesn't excel in any specific range, but it can effectively kill people in almost any situation, if you can use it. Not to mention it is a starting weapon, and starting weapons are always overused, like the AR and BR in Halo 3.

The AR is overused not because its a good weapon, but because you spawn with it. which is fine. The Pistol was not a standard spawn weapon in Halo CE gametypes (it was only so in Slayer Pro). But it had the same problem as the Halo 2 and 3 BR's, it was more useful than everything else and it function exceptionally well in any situation (save for melee except for the grenade glitch for double melee). The AR was supposed to have the flexibility role yet the Pistol, a backup weapon, stole that from it. There is a problem with that.


The AR was not designed well for this flexibility. The range sucks and it isn't headshot capable. If they just changed the pistol's skin to a rifle's skin and kept the same function, I don't think it would've been complained about nearly as much

It functioned above average in every situation, but never dominated a situation. There is also a gun to dominate it. That's how Halo has always been balanced.

Yes, the Pistol and AR weren't Halo CE default guns (except on some maps), but the game was played best with the generic starting weapon set, at least in my opinion. That was the magic of Halo. They should at least allow the option of that playstyle in more recent Halo games. With the generic weapons set, the game played amazingly on any medium to small map.

And if I recall correctly, the pistol/AR combo was the starting weapon set in objective games, at least CTF.

[Edited on 10.19.2009 2:14 PM PDT]

  • 10.19.2009 2:09 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Foahda
The majority of the weapons in Halo CE were overpowered.


I could see why one would say that, but the fact of the matter is that they were all balanced with eachother. Yes for a pistol, the CE pistol was overpowered, but against everything else in the game it worked just fine.

  • 10.19.2009 2:13 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

The weapon allows you to melee faster, it reloads faster, and it has accuracy increases for burst firing as well as great bullet cover for descoping BR/Sniper/Carbine users (not that this helps when it is so easy to head shot anyways). The AR does everything faster, not necessarily better.

I agree with your opinion on the Br being a reskin of the Pistol, but it still needed to be weakened. I also entirely agree with your last paragraph, but the pistol was still very overwhelming.

  • 10.19.2009 2:14 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: Foahda
The majority of the weapons in Halo CE were overpowered.


I could see why one would say that, but the fact of the matter is that they were all balanced with eachother. Yes for a pistol, the CE pistol was overpowered, but against everything else in the game it worked just fine.


That was my point. The reason the game was so balanced is because all the guns were useful and powerful. People seem to forget that and think it was only the pistol that was powerful.

  • 10.19.2009 2:16 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Legendary Member

Halo CE > Halo 3 > Halo 2

Fix the Halo 3 BR spread, plz.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
The weapon allows you to melee faster, it reloads faster, and it has accuracy increases for burst firing as well as great bullet cover for descoping BR/Sniper/Carbine users (not that this helps when it is so easy to head shot anyways). The AR does everything faster, not necessarily better.

I agree with your opinion on the Br being a reskin of the Pistol, but it still needed to be weakened. I also entirely agree with your last paragraph, but the pistol was still very overwhelming.


I don't think it needs to be weakened as much as making it just harder to headshot or even hit the opposing player. Halo CE has smaller hitboxes, and that was one of the reasons, a long with faster movement and strafe speed, that made it difficult to 3 shot a competent opponent.

If someone is overwhelming you with the utility gun, it should be because they have honed their aiming and movement skills to a level beyond the opponents. Otherwise, the gun shouldn't be overwhelming in the hands of an average player, who would miss more often.

  • 10.19.2009 2:21 PM PDT

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