Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: mlg/bungie.net public realations "Ending the War"
  • Subject: mlg/bungie.net public realations "Ending the War"
Subject: mlg/bungie.net public realations "Ending the War"

Hello, I am an active member of the MLG forum in the Halo 3 discussion board and the Halo 3 forge forum discussion board. It has become flear to me that the relationships between the MLG community ane the B.net community are boor at best. On one hand is the MLG community, who B.net stereotypes as being full of selfish, "know-it-alls" who think they are better than everybody else. On the other side, the MLG community stereotypes the B.net community as being full of young players, who because of their gearing toward a casual gaming experience, do not understand the subtleties of the game, which is being ruined by the casual-gamer's preference by Bungie. The MLG community looks at the posts that B.net users post, which, if enacted, would destroy some of the competitive merit of the Halo series and leave only the casual experience...

MLG forum: http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277444&highl ight=running

B.net forums: http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=38101808&p ostRepeater1-p=1

...As you may ascertain the the above example of a B.net topic that arose recently, one side is frustrated at the posters of the Bungie forum for suggesting something that would be the reason that "competitive gaming is getting ruined" (Aceolus: Post #3). B.net users on the other hand, find it an annoyance, which is being exploited through an unintentional glitch. (Notice that I am using the stereotypes of what was said as an example supporting my thesis, not as my own opinion, which in this matter will remain neutral and confidential). I believe, simply, that the two communities should make a conscious effort to make amends to one another. The few B.net users who post immature threads do not reflect the whole of the B.net community; at the same time, the few MLG players who go to the B.net forums to flame are not representative of the whole of the MLG community (in fact we abhor most of these "flamers"). So what is my main point? Why am I typing this up if stereotypes will still dominate the two sites? So that the few who think honestly about this topic will take it seriously. I have no doubt that a simple topic such as this will change many people's minds. The reason that I ascertained the will to type this topic was to implore people from both sides to try to put aside their pre-conceived stereotypes and see each community for what it is. The MLG community is a community for the betterment of the competitive merit of the Halo series. The B.net community is a community for the betterment of the casual enjoyability of the halo series. We are nothing more or nothing less than the betterment of one of the most popular games in history and our goals do not have to clash. We can have a competitive game that has may option that satisfy the competitive wants that have nothing to do with what the casual gamer will see in matchmaking. We can have a casual game that does not stress the people who are not good at the game or haven't been playing it long. We are analogous to the Democratic and Republican parties of American politics. We have differing view-points generally, but we both want our "America (I.E. Halo series) to b the best it can be. In politics, who people from opposing parties often come together to work on a common goal. My central question is: Why can't we do this for Reach or any other halo game?

P.S: I would enjoy no flaming in this disscussion for the sake of this idea in general.

My aspiration for beginning this topic is the below topic on the MLG/Halo 3 forum:
http://www.mlgpro.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277350&page= 2

  • 10.24.2009 6:25 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.

EDIT: Read the rest of the thread before having a spaz attack at me.

[Edited on 10.26.2009 12:20 AM PDT]

  • 10.24.2009 6:35 PM PDT

Posted by: cB4d93
Posted by: Silent Eli
you are a good translator
Idiot can be a hard language to learn, but once you get it down, everything becomes so clear! The whole world will make sense to you.

Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.

Way to confirm how mature all B.net users are.

  • 10.24.2009 6:42 PM PDT

what you just said is exactly my point... we mush not allow these preconceived notations that we have previously seen to get in the way of the big picture. cannot a game be both hardcore and fun? look at the original game... many who have played it have venerated the classic all shotgun games on chorion, or infinite sticky games on Hang em high despite the lack of xbox live that we have today and only a handful of options. at the same time halo 1 was the most competitive of the halo games so far. individual options like hitscan on/off would make the competitive community happier and not even effect those who don't play MLG.
Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.

  • 10.24.2009 6:54 PM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

Posted by: BK Burger Boy
Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.

Way to confirm how mature all B.net users are.
Although I do agree that he put it in a very immature way I agree with his basic opinion (which I hope is what I think it is).

Bungie I think should make its game with the intention to be the most fun experience around. MLG players can alter and change little settings in the game to cater it to their tastes much easier than a regular Joe could.

  • 10.24.2009 6:55 PM PDT
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Wow Halo: Reach is in MLG already? l33t

  • 10.24.2009 6:57 PM PDT

get out of here stalker

A game is meant to be played however you want.
If someone just plays once in a while then let them do so. If someone wants to play in tournaments and such then let them do so. It doesn't matter if the other guy is doing what he enjoys, what matters is if you're doing what you enjoy.
That's also the same reason why I think console/game wars are so stupid.

  • 10.24.2009 7:00 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Though I do respect the MLG community (and I admit, they are generally a more mature group), the casual community will always be favored over the competitive community. This is because Bungie wants to make the highest profit margins (don't misinterpret me, this isn't their only desire), and the casual fanbase has a much greater population than the competitive base. It is simply good business practice to cater to the larger crowd.

Because of this, the competitive community will always feel left out in virtually all games being made. Although, no matter how casual you make a game, you can still make it into something competitive. Competitive gamers (and MLG) always adapt to these casual games and fit it to their liking.

Some myths about the two communities is blatantly wrong, which inevitably led to these stereotypes. The most influencing stereotype is that the Bnet community tends to be made of younger kids, and the MLG community tends to be older folk. I say dispelling the myths about the two communities is a step in the right direction, though I doubt the tensions will ever be solved.

  • 10.24.2009 7:03 PM PDT

I am well aware that this debate will never truly be solved and such posts have arose in the past. Also this is not a post focusing on bungie itself taking notice of the MLG community. This post is made in order to try to help the two communities come together and not spew hate about one another as commonly happens. Both sides are guilty of this, I will admit that I have been guilty of this; however, the quintessential argument I am making is to at least act diplomatically to one another.
Posted by: P3P5I
Though I do respect the MLG community (and I admit, they are generally a more mature group), the casual community will always be favored over the competitive community. This is because Bungie wants to make the highest profit margins (don't misinterpret me, this isn't their only desire), and the casual fanbase has a much greater population than the competitive base. It is simply good business practice to cater to the larger crowd.

Because of this, the competitive community will always feel left out in virtually all games being made. Although, no matter how casual you make a game, you can still make it into something competitive. Competitive gamers (and MLG) always adapt to these casual games and fit it to their liking.

Some myths about the two communities is blatantly wrong, which inevitably led to these stereotypes. The most influencing stereotype is that the Bnet community tends to be made of younger kids, and the MLG community tends to be older folk. I say dispelling the myths about the two communities is a step in the right direction, though I doubt the tensions will ever be solved.

  • 10.24.2009 7:22 PM PDT

The Spartan Special Ops - Now with more LOLgasms!

Posted by: EnragedElite67
"The problem with quotes on the internet is 95% are made up." - Socrates

Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.


win

  • 10.24.2009 7:32 PM PDT
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Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: menotyou135
I am well aware that this debate will never truly be solved and such posts have arose in the past. Also this is not a post focusing on bungie itself taking notice of the MLG community. This post is made in order to try to help the two communities come together and not spew hate about one another as commonly happens. Both sides are guilty of this, I will admit that I have been guilty of this; however, the quintessential argument I am making is to at least act diplomatically to one another.

Consider me a pessimist, but I believe the only true way to stop the stereotypes and hate between these two communities is for Bungie to stop making games. You can't stop human nature.

  • 10.24.2009 7:32 PM PDT

my old account "gamegeknee" was hacked and thats why I had to make a new login name.

Ha, sup menotyou fix your links man! I agree, I don't understand why a lot of B.net people think playing for fun is the only way. Maybe you enjoy playing for fun and think it's the best way but some of us out there do like playing competitively, there's no reason we can't play two different ways in the same game.

Most things competitive players would like to see in a game casual players wouldn't even notice. Like the BR spread for example, if it was changed overnight, most casual players wouldn't even notice a difference. I hate when people say MLG ruined Halo, because how is that possible? They made gametypes for the way they enjoy playing, if you don't like it don't freakin play it, it's not hurting any of the other playlists.

Anyway the point I'm trying to make is that the good thing about Halo is there are so many different ways to play and just about anyone can find a gametype they like.

  • 10.24.2009 7:43 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: BK Burger Boy
Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.

Way to confirm how mature all B.net users are.


It's the truth, plain and simple.

  • 10.24.2009 7:53 PM PDT

93% of statistics are lies. Formerly Xfire Grunt. Unfortunately, you can't change the WLID for your BNET account, so I had to create an alternate account. My other WLID was spam city (and it was my e-mail account too).

Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.


That is how some people have fun.

Unfair gameplay is less fun for me and I don't really do MLG stuff. Things are fun for me unless their competitive, but I don't have enough time to bother playing Halo competitively.

[Edited on 10.24.2009 8:07 PM PDT]

  • 10.24.2009 8:06 PM PDT

http://www.rewards1.com/2164676
Go to Rewards1 and complete an offer for me please!

personally i don't see the entire point of mlg getting payed for playing a video game but i guess its just another business

I have to agree with the part from the original post saying how the two communities are just like political parties always fighting against each other but fighting for the same thing they both love.

But come competitive gaming comes people who fight over who is better because who can land a faster 4 shot that is why i prefer casual gaming more.

  • 10.24.2009 8:12 PM PDT
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I declare Neap

Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.


And that's exactly the point! Despite your over-generalisation and lack of understanding of truth, this is the exact attitude that needs to stop! I've always found it extremely ironic how MLG is trying to get gaming to become more mainstream and is giving a massive amount of support for the Halo franchise, but the members of Bungie forums bash it completely. And I do find it ironic how many 'MLG' players continue to bash the game they repeatedly play.

The solution is simple: make the game how they have before, cater it to the casual player, etc. But just give the customisability to edit the settings so that MLG can craft the game exactly how they want it. The genius thing is it really doesn't have to be much. A few examples:
-Every weapon on every map
-Consistent damage increases (eg by 5%, not just 100, 110, 125, 150, 200, 300)
-Ability to change spread and range of weapons
-Ability to have fall damage
-Full-scale map editor

I'm sure there is more, but this would NOT hurt the casual player in the slightest. In fact, it would probably ENHANCE the casual player's experience as they have so much more they can do with the game.

So don't just blindly dismiss everything for the sake of being on a side. Consider everyone's viewpoints and make a solution that will suit everyone.

  • 10.24.2009 8:27 PM PDT

I wouldn't say b.net is full of casual players. Sometimes I feel like the MLG community asks for too much. They have their own playlists, own "maps" and then continue to ask for more. Sure you could say casual players have their own playlists but MLG players could easily occupy those as well.

I personally don't like the barrier people put up between various Halo communities. We are all in the same community, sure we may have different playing styles but in the end we all look for the fun factor.

  • 10.24.2009 8:29 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

I think the problem lies more within the MLG part of the community rather than the B.Net.

I'm sorry if that sounds negative to MLG fans, but it's still true. There are many MLG wannabes (I'm refering to the loudmouths that make up the steriotype of MLG players being elitist -blam!-s) that constantly "demand" things. Whether it's taking Elites out of SWAT, nerfing/removing the AR, increasing the amount of MLG maps, improving the BR (which I think is overpowered enough, in my opinion), or having a seperate matchmaking playlist away from players aged below 18 (Which is offensive to me, since I'm fifteen and probably a lot more mature than a lot of people in their mid-twenties) they just never seem to be happy with the game.

Now, there are probably tonnes of people from the MLG community that are fine with Halo 3, play the MLG playlist, maybe jump over to do other things, and I'm cool with them. However, the jackasses "representing" the MLG community used to make me think that everyone in MLG would strangle a kitten to make themselves play better (Which is untrue, thanks to people like the OP) have the loudest mouths and are the ones that the Bnet community identifies as "MLG."

Now, there's a lot of eff'd up -blam!- on the Bnet forums too (Like how CoD fanboys WON'T leave us alone) but that's our problem and we'll hopefully deal with it. I don't want to make out this forum to be an elite utopian society (Ha, no) but the MLG asshats are still a pain in the ass.

I've always liked to play competitive games, but sometimes Zombies and smacking my friends with hammers is a lot more fun. To others that isn't the case but I think we should all be having fun, right? Can't everyone stop whining about X and Y and just get along?

  • 10.24.2009 8:32 PM PDT

Posted by: Ushan
Because Muslims surgically implant organic bombs in their testicles, which in turn will be injected into women during sex, which will grow into BABY BOMBS!

Posted by: b0b43
Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.


And that's exactly the point! Despite your over-generalisation and lack of understanding of truth, this is the exact attitude that needs to stop! I've always found it extremely ironic how MLG is trying to get gaming to become more mainstream and is giving a massive amount of support for the Halo franchise, but the members of Bungie forums bash it completely. And I do find it ironic how many 'MLG' players continue to bash the game they repeatedly play.

The solution is simple: make the game how they have before, cater it to the casual player, etc. But just give the customisability to edit the settings so that MLG can craft the game exactly how they want it. The genius thing is it really doesn't have to be much. A few examples:
-Every weapon on every map
-Consistent damage increases (eg by 5%, not just 100, 110, 125, 150, 200, 300)
-Ability to change spread and range of weapons
-Ability to have fall damage
-Full-scale map editor

I'm sure there is more, but this would NOT hurt the casual player in the slightest. In fact, it would probably ENHANCE the casual player's experience as they have so much more they can do with the game.

So don't just blindly dismiss everything for the sake of being on a side. Consider everyone's viewpoints and make a solution that will suit everyone.


You're misunderstanding what I'm saying. Bungie shouldn't make a game for MLG. MLG should adapt to the game and do what they want in terms of customisation. People keep saying stuff like "Bungie if you don't make the game like this you will lose the
whole of the MLG population and won't get many sales".

I'm totally fine with MLG and I play it every once in a while but a lot of its community(not all) should get used to the fact that they can't have everything.

RabidNutCase's^^^ post is exactly what I'm trying to say.

[Edited on 10.24.2009 8:39 PM PDT]

  • 10.24.2009 8:37 PM PDT

People who report others on the bungie forums are so cool!

TO ALL "CASUAL" PLAYERS:

Being competitive may not be fun to you, but it's fun to others. You prefer infection customs. We prefer MLG FFAs.

  • 10.24.2009 8:44 PM PDT
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To much reading

  • 10.24.2009 8:47 PM PDT

*Bobfather17*

IMO ideas that would add luck or slow down the game too much and couldn't be changed are typically bad ideas to begin with.

  • 10.24.2009 8:54 PM PDT

Roses are red,
Violets are blue,
And Spitfire pony
Is my Waifu <3

Posted by: SpartanMk18
Posted by: Tucker 051
Who cares what MLG players think. A game is made to be fun not hardcore and competitive. A game is made for people to have fun and enjoy themselves, not b1tch about BR spread.


win


Double Win

  • 10.24.2009 9:07 PM PDT

The reason Halo 3 has become as popular as it has is because of its versatility. Players are not restricted to playing game after game of similar gametypes against random players. The custom games option is actually used, unlike other games.

Unless Bungie makes a complete 180 turn on this, players will always be able to change the settings and environment in which they play. I do not see any difference between hardcore and casual, only different game setting. Forgive me if I am wrong, but with the way Halo currently works, there isn't any way I see that Bungie could gear the game towards any one community.

Purely for the purposes of making a good game, Bungie will include automatic guns, burst guns, sniper rifles, energy weapons, explosives, etc. And with the community's response to the customization options, I only see our ability to alter our playstyle increasing.

As an end result, all the tension between hardcore and casual players seems to be purely mental. The obnoxious members of the hardcore community somehow believe that because they are better than you at Halo, that gives them the right to annouce it to the world. The narrow minded casual community that believs that the entirety of the hardcore community is trying to get Bungie to remove options and customizations.

In reality, both communities have good intentions. The hardcore community tries to create environments that produce no excess variability. That way, victory is determined by one's abilities alone. The casual community is trying to create an environment in which all aspects of the game are utilized. This way, one can achieve victory based on their own knowledge and adaptability.

Where others claim to see division between these groups, I believe that there is harmony.

  • 10.24.2009 9:09 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

Posted by: JaketheSnake 76
TO ALL "CASUAL" PLAYERS:

Being competitive may not be fun to you, but it's fun to others. You prefer infection customs. We prefer MLG FFAs.
That's true, but there are still MLG players that ask of Bungie that are trying to eliminate things (Like Elites in SWAT and the AR) that "ruin" their fun. All of this? It's a War over fun.

  • 10.24.2009 9:10 PM PDT