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Subject: Sierra259 and Sierra320 need not be Spartans. Clue from the Halo 2 Era
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Good stuff you posted there. What makes people believe that they are Spartans (the smart ones, not the ones that believe everything they see or hear) is not what is being said but the way that they say it.

S-259 Says:
"You got SPARTANs on the ground sir,"
"We're not going anywhere"

This leads us to believe that he is a Spartan.

  • 10.25.2009 12:00 PM PDT

Lurking since 2009

This is a very very good theory, and it is a possibility.
But i think i can debunk it.
In halo: reach its not like bungie has to obey the laws of their other games and novels. There could be a second group of spartans, it was always theorized that there could be another group of spartans. The Dr (cant remember the name) was going to make a 2nd group of spartans but couldent due to buget restrictions, and not enough eligibale children. But there were trillions of humans on all of earths colonies. It is possible there was a secret group of spartans that bungie is creating, its not like it would be out of place in halos crazy lore.

I could be right or you could be right. I guess we will have to see.

[Edited on 10.25.2009 12:02 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2009 12:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

I Love Bees is not confirmed to be cannon, while Frankie did state that I Love Bees is cannon, Josepth Staten stated the exact opposite that same year. Also, let me point out that Sierra 259 and Siera 320 could easily be a pelican designation like Echo 419.

[Edited on 10.25.2009 12:03 PM PDT]

  • 10.25.2009 12:02 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Sanjeev
Posted by: Pahat Pojat
This is Sierra-259 you got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere


Think about this. Sierra 259 could be a Marine. Spartan reinforcements have come down. You plus them are not going anywhere.

Possibility.

If not you try explaining to me how Bungie pulled out a Spartan 259 out of their backsides. We'll be back to square 1.


How many times have you had to explain that?

  • 10.25.2009 12:02 PM PDT

Posted by: ElzarTheBam
Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
Halo is a good storyline? LOL

I think you have to read books like 'Michel Strogoff', view films like 'Citizen Kane' and play games like 'BioShock' and then you'll see Halo's screenplay is a huge bull-blam!-.

At the point of the recreation of the Halo universe... Well, I think it could sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better. For example, Metroid Prime. It has much less material to recreate an environment than Halo but Metroid Prime experience is one of the best ever seen in videogames and in art in general. Halo games never goes into the story line in depth. The only game that went into the game atmosphere was Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo 2 and Halo 3 just broke it.

I'm a Halo fan, but not a blind one. The truth is American people overoveroveroveroveroveroveroverestimate Halo games even in concepts where Halo is very bad (storyline, recreation).

Now it's the turn of those fanboys that are going to say me Halo is the best game/universe of the world without giving any reason. I gave my reasons to believe Halo is not that good as lots of people thinks.

But I'm thinking, if you think Halo story is that good, what kind of bull-blam!- do you think is a bad one? Sorry dude, I had to say it.

Im sorry but i disagree, thats your opinion and i respect that, but i believe that a story does not have be a literate masterpiece to be perceived as being good. You bring up the point about citizen kane, a good movie sure, but what is the difference between that movie and star wars? ill tell you what, escapism. A story does not have to be drenched in realism or have to have a solifying story to be considered fun. Now tell me which provides more entertainment? star wars or citizen kane, probably star wars. which has the better story? probably citizen kane, thier's the difference, although both these factors can be interwoven, in video gaming terms they rarely are.

Halo has a tremendous amount of backstory, and if you construe the story to be self contained within the games, then you may have point, although i think odst went some way to add a emotive story. However, as a piece of science fiction, the wealth of story and possibility out there within the halo lore is endless, leaving enough unknowns to spark the fans imagination. Sure its no Asimov, but you know what? its probably more fun and at the end of day, thats what counts.
You say Bioshock has a good story, and i agree its fantastic, but its not what kept me playing, the atmosphere,the music, the gameplay is what kept me playing, something that i think halo edges out bioshock in every department. I think you realize that a story can be told in many various ways, not just the strength of the script.


Well I tried to put an extended answer to your interesting post but there was a net-error so I couldn't post it. So I have to say a couple of things:

1.- I've never said script is more important than fun. Of course, fun is MUCH MORE important.

2.- I believe there are various ways of telling stories. But I also believe Halo has to improve in this field. Maybe a script closer to BioShock's, not to Metroid Prime's.

3.- Halo has a great invented History, such as Zelda, but both series have a problem: no story. It is limited to a too simple story, due to the fact that gameplay is more important. Gameplay or story, why choose? Why don't Bungie just make a great gamplay and a great story? I love good gameplays, but they do a 9 when they could do a 10.

  • 10.25.2009 3:05 PM PDT

OP is full of win.

  • 10.25.2009 3:10 PM PDT
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Posted by: thatguyaknow
This is a very very good theory, and it is a possibility.
But i think i can debunk it.
In halo: reach its not like bungie has to obey the laws of their other games and novels. There could be a second group of spartans, it was always theorized that there could be another group of spartans. The Dr (cant remember the name) was going to make a 2nd group of spartans but couldent due to buget restrictions, and not enough eligibale children. But there were trillions of humans on all of earths colonies. It is possible there was a secret group of spartans that bungie is creating, its not like it would be out of place in halos crazy lore.

I could be right or you could be right. I guess we will have to see.


The Second Class of Spartan 2s have confirmed to never have been trained. It was postponed indefinitely in favor of the Spartan 3s.

My original crazy theory was that these Sierra figures were Spartans who apparently did not survive the augmentation process, they were jettisoned out of the Medical ship they were in. My theory was that it was an ONI Cover-up and that they had indeed survived, had their deaths faked and were now doing Special Forces and black ops missions for ONI.

Its just, that's too huge a story to explain in a story. Most of the people who play Halo probably don't even know that there are more than 1 Spartan.

Posted by: The BS Police
I Love Bees is not confirmed to be cannon, while Frankie did state that I Love Bees is cannon, Josepth Staten stated the exact opposite that same year. Also, let me point out that Sierra 259 and Siera 320 could easily be a pelican designation like Echo 419.


I believe the halo Encyclopedia states it as cannon. I cannot confirm this point though many elements from it have appeared in Canonical Halo projects, as I have mentioned in the OP, such as Halo 3: ODST and the Halo: Graphic Novel.

________________________________________

Oh and did someone say Halo's story was simple?

Hahaha.

  • 10.26.2009 4:31 AM PDT

I wish I was still legendary.

Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
Halo is a good storyline? LOL

I play games like 'BioShock' and then you'll see Halo's screenplay is a huge bull-blam!-.



Bioshock? A good, deep plot? More like hijack a plane because you were told to, go to an underwater city, find out that it's screwed over, help this guy who turns out to be fontaine later on, get saved by this lady becuz she be gewd, kill this guy who is your daddy, find out you're a CLONE, kill Atlas and run away.

it doesn't have a complicated plot, or a decent backstory beyond 'omg we dun liek government so we built a physically impossible city'. I liked the game, but it's not half as deep as you seem to think. You could have at least chosen a world like the elder scrolls as evidence, where every game has like 200 books that add to the lore as well as everything else.

Halo...is deeper than you seem to think. It's a cliched story of good vs. evil, sure, but a lot more can be done with it. Especially given the 100,000 year gap after the Halo event, and the things that must have happened during that, the inevitable unseen species and conflicts...there is a much richer canon to draw on than Bioshock has.

/fanboy rant. Now, onto the sensible post:

Yes, halo has crappy scripts. No, it doesn't have quite as simple a story as you seem to think. When you have over 100K years of in-game history plotted out, it's hard to make a simple story.

I agree that we need better scripts and better, deeper stories for the games though.

I can see sierra being a combat group or pelican, yeah. Personally? 320 sounds a LOT more like a pelican or combat group in a pelican than a spartan squad being dropped in, especially since they didn't identify themselves as something like red team or blue team.

[Edited on 10.26.2009 5:15 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 5:11 AM PDT

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
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Posted by: BustaGeneral
Posted by: BTE

S-259 Says:
"You got SPARTANs on the ground sir,"
"We're not going anywhere"




As again as i was Saying...Sierra-259 could be a Oni officer....Saying as He deployed Spartans saying that they have them on the ground

As for the "We're not going anywhere" part, It could be saying that the Humans on Reach are not leaving without a fight....(No civilians just all military)


The point is, he was just talking about the Spartans at the moment, and that is why some people, me included believe he's a Spartan from Team Beta, since the game is already confirmed to be taking place during the fall of Reach and featuring Spartans.

I already explained Team Beta possibility in page 1.

[Edited on 10.26.2009 5:29 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 5:16 AM PDT
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Weren't there only 150 potential candidates and they all made it to the training phase? I am pretty sure it has come up somewhere. The callsigns would not make sense for Team Beta if that's the case.

Besides, the Halo Encyclopedia released with a full list of all the Spartan 2s and their numbers. And I am pretty sure there were no mentions of a Spartan 259 or 320 in them.

  • 10.26.2009 5:25 AM PDT
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Halo Reach will be about Spartans..not about stupid Marines.

  • 10.26.2009 5:38 AM PDT
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Posted by: halo2jumper
Halo Reach will be about Spartans..not about stupid Marines.


Probably why ODST's Story was much more interesting than the Halo Trilogy, then.

  • 10.26.2009 5:40 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: Sanjeev
Posted by: halo2jumper
Halo Reach will be about Spartans..not about stupid Marines.


Probably why ODST's Story was much more interesting than the Halo Trilogy, then.


Hey, watch it. ODST was better than Halo 3. But I still believe that CE was on the same par with it.

  • 10.26.2009 5:48 AM PDT
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Posted by: privet caboose
Posted by: Sanjeev
Posted by: halo2jumper
Halo Reach will be about Spartans..not about stupid Marines.


Probably why ODST's Story was much more interesting than the Halo Trilogy, then.


Hey, watch it. ODST was better than Halo 3. But I still believe that CE was on the same par with it.


ODST was, simply put, a reminder to the fans that Bungie can still do good simple stories, that carry as much, if not more, impact than complex ones.

Of course, it comes down to opinion at the end of the day.

That is discussion, that belongs to a conversation some other day.

It makes sense for the Spartans in Team Beta to be featured. But I still don't see how they would have numbers like 259 and 320. I am positive that there were only 150 potential candidates in the first place.

  • 10.26.2009 5:54 AM PDT

Posted by: llamalizard
I agree that we need better scripts and better, deeper stories for the games though.


Well, I have to add that the primary objective is gameplay, then the script.

Posted by: llamalizard
I can see sierra being a combat group or pelican, yeah. Personally? 320 sounds a LOT more like a pelican or combat group in a pelican than a spartan squad being dropped in, especially since they didn't identify themselves as something like red team or blue team.


Sierra is a keyword which makes refference to a specific word begining with 'S'. A Pelican? No. A Marine? Neither. A Spartan? 'Possibly' yes.

  • 10.26.2009 8:48 AM PDT

.
The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher regard those who think alike than those who think differently.

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Posted by: Sanjeev
The Second Class of Spartan 2s have confirmed to never have been trained. It was postponed indefinitely in favor of the Spartan 3s.

Wrong. The second class was not postponed in favor of Spartan 3's. It was postponed because Dr. Halsey wanted to wait until the augmentation procedures were refined...and they were. The last class of Spartan 3's, for example, had a 100% success rate during augmentation. Just because the second class of Spartan 2s has not previously been revealed does not mean they do not exist.

The Sierra designation in the Reach trailer could be referring to a herd of antelope for all we know. Still, my money's says they're members of the second class of Spartan 2s.


[Edited on 10.26.2009 9:16 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 9:15 AM PDT

Sierra + three numbers = Spartan II designation. You theory, while sound, seems more like a serial number. If the other sierra was fallowed only by 3 numbers, then you may hold some weight.

/thread.

  • 10.26.2009 9:37 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
Halo is a good storyline? LOL

It does in terms of sci-fi. It may not have the best authors, but the story has some serious roots and hat tips to other science fiction. That is what sci-fi is all about, knowledgeable referencing to other things. There is a reason there are so many typical practices in the genre, because fans enjoy recollection to the movies, books and games that started that fad.

Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
I think you have to read books like 'Michel Strogoff', view films like 'Citizen Kane' and play games like 'BioShock' and then you'll see Halo's screenplay is a huge bull-blam!-.

Bioshock had a good story, but at the same time it wasn't really new. I have a friend just like you who thinks that story means everything in a game and he also constantly references Citizen Kane as being the best movie in existence. What he fails to understand is that there is no "right" way to do things outside of completely forgetting the basic rules and screwing up out of ignorance. Every movie, game, and book has something to offer in terms of positive and negative and until people like you understand this you will always have high standards that destroy the possibility for you to completely enjoy something that isn't a masterpiece (Halo isn't trying to be one).

Another thing I have noticed is that games with brilliant stories aren't replayed nearly as much as games with good mechanics. Personally, a game falls in this order:

Gameplay > Story > Visuals > Easter Eggs/MP Implementation > DLC

But back to what I was saying: unless you have hard roots in the sci-fi film genre, then you have no right to call Halo's story or screenplay crap. Cause it isn't. I recommend you watch these three movies to get the references within Halo: Alien, Starship Troopers, Stargate.

Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
Halo games never goes into the story line in depth. The only game that went into the game atmosphere was Halo: Combat Evolved, Halo 2 and Halo 3 just broke it.

The brilliance in Halo's storyline is that you don't feel disconnected from it like most shooters. HL2 has things happening (events, choices and conversations) without any character participation at times. Of all the shooters I have played, Halo has been the best about keeping the game fluid and engaging (H2 and H3 less so than HCE).

Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
Now it's the turn of those fanboys that are going to say me Halo is the best game/universe of the world without giving any reason. I gave my reasons to believe Halo is not that good as lots of people thinks.

No, I agree that Halo isn't the best game ever. I hold many games above Halo in different areas such as graphics, mechanics, gameplay, story and art style. But Halo is still, in my opinion, a game that has set a standard. A game that successful completed what Goldeneye 007 and Perfect Dark 64 started - bring shooters to the home console. That is an achievement anyone can respect.

Posted by: Dix Ponga 9
But I'm thinking, if you think Halo story is that good, what kind of bull-blam!- do you think is a bad one? Sorry dude, I had to say it.

Watch the movie Dragon Wars or Mano: Hands of Fate. Either of those should successfully clear your palate.

[Edited on 10.26.2009 9:57 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 9:54 AM PDT
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Posted by: BTE
S-259 Says:
"You got SPARTANs on the ground sir,"
"We're not going anywhere"

This leads us to believe that he is a Spartan.


False, In Halo: Ghosts of Onyx every Spartan II has been believed KIA apart from John 117, Kurt 051 who was Stated as MIA to provide secrecy for the Spartan III Program, Fred 104, Linda 058, Kelly 087 and Will 043.

This leads us to believe he is not a Spartan, as all Spartan II's Were deployed to defend Reach apart from Blue Team, Sierra 259 said "You've got Spartans on the Ground Sir, We're not going anywhere."

They were attempting to communicate with Noble 1, Sierra 259 I believe may be apart of Noble 1's Crew, they were saying to Nova 1 that they need him in the fight, meaning he wasn't in the fight already, meaning he is not a Spartan as all Spartans were deployed apart from who I stated and none of those Spartans had the Tag 259, meaning that unless Bungie has another surprise for us, Sierra 259 is not a Spartan.



[Edited on 10.26.2009 10:05 AM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 10:02 AM PDT

I think that 320 is probably a Pelican dropship, due to the fact she says "Prepped for combat insertion." 259, however, I think is a Spartan, the last line in the trailer is just too obviously pointing towards the fact.

  • 10.26.2009 10:12 AM PDT
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....

All I got to say is that the game is about the fall of reach and the battle of reach consists of 2 spartan teams spliting up 2 missions amongst themselves, red team lead by fred goes to the surface to repel the invasion forces on the planet from destroying the Super MAC gun generators, and the master chief along with 2 other (their names escape me at the moment) go on a recovery mission to a UNSC ship named the COMMONWEALTH to recover its data files which reveal the locations of all the other human colonies, and the navy battle that ensues in orbit around the planet with the covies trying to take out the super MAC guns the hard way.

  • 10.26.2009 10:19 AM PDT
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Posted by: BTE
Posted by: Xharpan
it doese'nt look nextgen , looks good but not nextgen
If by next-gen you mean crappy, dark and colorless, I agree. It doesnt look next-gen at all.

Posted by: Morg211
Posted by: BTE
S-259 Says:
"You got SPARTANs on the ground sir,"
"We're not going anywhere"

This leads us to believe that he is a Spartan.


False, In Halo: Ghosts of Onyx every Spartan II has been believed KIA apart from John 117, Kurt 051 who was Stated as MIA to provide secrecy for the Spartan III Program, Fred 104, Linda 058, Kelly 087 and Will 043.

This leads us to believe he is not a Spartan, as all Spartan II's Were deployed to defend Reach apart from Blue Team, Sierra 259 said "You've got Spartans on the Ground Sir, We're not going anywhere."

They were attempting to communicate with Noble 1, Sierra 259 I believe may be apart of Noble 1's Crew, they were saying to Nova 1 that they need him in the fight, meaning he wasn't in the fight already, meaning he is not a Spartan as all Spartans were deployed apart from who I stated and none of those Spartans had the Tag 259, meaning that unless Bungie has another surprise for us, Sierra 259 is not a Spartan.

By the way im not stating that I believe that Sierra 259 and 320 are Spartans, I'm just saying that what makes many people believe that they are Spartans is not the "Sierra" part, its what he said.

As for your Ghost of Onyx theory, it has no substance. John went into Reach because he got the signal from Anton. Anton's team knew that the others were in the Castle Base. If Anton didn't know about Castle Base, the Chief would've probably left Reach with only Anton's team.

If the other Spartans were in Reach and could not communicate with either Fred or John, it doesn't mean that they are dead. It just means that they cant contact anyone so no one knows where they are. Sure you could assume they are dead but that is a halfassed way to look at things especially when we know how resilient Spartans are (they are like cockroaches). Also, you talk about Ghost of Onyx, but that happened around the time of Halo 2. This is pre-Halo:CE so they are still alive.

  • 10.26.2009 11:36 AM PDT

We know we are playing as spartans. It is probable that they are spartans. Who really cares anyways? If they are named something else than Spartan 259 and Spartan 320, we'll change the names appropriately. There are bigger things to argue over.

  • 10.26.2009 11:40 AM PDT

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