Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Sierra259 and Sierra320 need not be Spartans. Clue from the Halo 2 Era
  • Subject: Sierra259 and Sierra320 need not be Spartans. Clue from the Halo 2 Era
  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4
Subject: Sierra259 and Sierra320 need not be Spartans. Clue from the Halo 2 Era

Hm, Halo Wars broken established novel continuity, those three Spartans have no relation in he numbers previously established, so yeah.

As much as we may love the books, they are not solid, and it's Bungie's will to change and alter, they are the God of their universe, not us.

Now then, Joe already confirmed Reach would have Spartans, so we know right there established canon is being retconned, yet again, which is just the way franchises work.

I do believe Sierra-259 is a Spartan, the designation just makes sense. Of course, Sierra is NOT code for only Spartans, it's from the NATO phonetic alphabet, as it assigns codewords for letters, primarily used for radio transmissions so that it can be easily understood and received, without breaking any major intel or compromising objectives.

So, any "S" word would be Sierra, but the addition of the three numbers (259), makes the direct implication that he is a Spartan, and the fact that he says "we're not going anywhere".

Sometimes the simple answer is the right one.

  • 11.09.2009 9:46 AM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

I'm just confused on how you think Joe confirming us playing as spartans means retcon?

  • 11.09.2009 9:56 AM PDT

Well, if we look at general speculation, and make some basic assumptions; that being that Sierra 259 is, in fact, a Spartan, we know right there that's a retcon, and from the numbers given in Fall Of Reach and later novels, any additional Spartans qualify as a Retcon.

The Spartan II program never reached that high of a number, that would have to be a second class, which has been implied never got off the ground, that's a retcon.

Joe confirming Spartans, that's a retcon, as we're either playing as new Spartans, or Spartans mentioned in the books, and this event is a retcon, out of the two options, both are retcons.

So, no matter how you slice it, we've got retcons out the ass. Which I'm fine with. I enjoy the property and I'm no canon zealot, I just know how things work.

How Wars was a retcon, that team of Spartans, by the original numbers, they didn't exist. They were retroactively added into the ranks, but still don't fit in with the established novels that came before, hell, the books themselves ignore each other. Numbers are all over the place on Spartans, but the general, accepted canon is that Spartans didn't get near the 259 number, or above, so, if both of these individuals are Spartans, we've got retcons, per Joe's confirmation, and putting the pieces together.

Still confused?

  • 11.09.2009 1:04 PM PDT

Posted by: InnerDemon117
Well, if we look at general speculation, and make some basic assumptions; that being that Sierra 259 is, in fact, a Spartan, we know right there that's a retcon, and from the numbers given in Fall Of Reach and later novels, any additional Spartans qualify as a Retcon.

The Spartan II program never reached that high of a number, that would have to be a second class, which has been implied never got off the ground, that's a retcon.

Joe confirming Spartans, that's a retcon, as we're either playing as new Spartans, or Spartans mentioned in the books, and this event is a retcon, out of the two options, both are retcons.

So, no matter how you slice it, we've got retcons out the ass. Which I'm fine with. I enjoy the property and I'm no canon zealot, I just know how things work.

How Wars was a retcon, that team of Spartans, by the original numbers, they didn't exist. They were retroactively added into the ranks, but still don't fit in with the established novels that came before, hell, the books themselves ignore each other. Numbers are all over the place on Spartans, but the general, accepted canon is that Spartans didn't get near the 259 number, or above, so, if both of these individuals are Spartans, we've got retcons, per Joe's confirmation, and putting the pieces together.

Still confused?


IMO Halo Wars is not cannon, and the books took many liberties where they shouldn't have.

I wouldn't take Bungie changing history involved in the books as retcon(retrofitting continuity, or some such) in this case. They stepped out of line.

You are right.
Any way you look at it though, there will be conflict somewhere, unless the story is a direct play by play from the book, and I think that would be quite lame and short.

I do not, however, think that Sierra has to stand for "Spartan". Alpha team, bravo company, etc. Who's to say MC wasn't part of a team? In the act of verbal communication you can't say Bravo company 234, 345097, and 2435098702349. He did do an aweful lot of fighting with marines (dying)at his side through the entire Halo 3 campaign.

  • 11.09.2009 1:31 PM PDT
  • gamertag:
  • user homepage:
  • last post: 01.01.0001 12:00 AM PDT

Sierra 259 is a Spartan....

"This is Sierra 259, yout got Spartans on the ground, Sir. We're not going anywhere."

  • 11.09.2009 1:42 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Noble Heroic Member

Posted by: TrueB3liever
Sierra 259 is a Spartan....

"This is Sierra 259, yout got Spartans on the ground, Sir. We're not going anywhere."
What if its just a regular marine who got Spartan reinforcements? Therefore, the marine plus them are not going anywhere. Sierra 259 and 320 could have been pelicans that dropped off spartans that are staying with them to help with the mission.

And if they are spartans who says that these Spartans are a retcon? There are still a few spartans that we do not know about (Numbers, name etc.) These 2 could easily be one of them.

  • 11.09.2009 4:56 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: P3P5I
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: cB4d93
And if they are spartans who says that these Spartans are a retcon? There are still a few spartans that we do not know about (Numbers, name etc.) These 2 could easily be one of them.

The only thing I don't like about this theory is that no known Spartan-II number goes past 150 (the original number of children chosen for the program), so why are these two so special? Why go past the 150 limit?

  • 11.09.2009 5:06 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

It is possible that 259 and 320 are not Spartans, but it would be illogical. Yes, 'Sierra', being of the phonetic alphabet, could refer to many things, but it would be completely nonsensical to defy the blindingly obvious point that Bungie knows that everyone who follows their games knows that 'Sierra' is typically used to refer to a Spartan. To reject this would be a blunt betrayal of sub-conscious normality, one which I severely doubt Bungie would commit to.

  • 11.09.2009 5:11 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Mythic Member
  • gamertag: P3P5I
  • user homepage:

Posted by: Achronos
It isn't our shiznit anymore.

Posted by: Seggi31
It is possible that 259 and 320 are not Spartans, but it would be illogical. Yes, 'Sierra', being of the phonetic alphabet, could refer to many things, but it would be completely nonsensical to defy the blindingly obvious point that Bungie knows that everyone who follows their games knows that 'Sierra' is typically used to refer to a Spartan. To reject this would be a blunt betrayal of sub-conscious normality, one which I severely doubt Bungie would commit to.

So you are saying it is not in Bungie's personality to deceive us?

  • 11.09.2009 5:14 PM PDT

Signatures are for squares.

Posted by: InnerDemon117
Well, if we look at general speculation, and make some basic assumptions; that being that Sierra 259 is, in fact, a Spartan, we know right there that's a retcon, and from the numbers given in Fall Of Reach and later novels, any additional Spartans qualify as a Retcon.

The Spartan II program never reached that high of a number, that would have to be a second class, which has been implied never got off the ground, that's a retcon.

Joe confirming Spartans, that's a retcon, as we're either playing as new Spartans, or Spartans mentioned in the books, and this event is a retcon, out of the two options, both are retcons.

So, no matter how you slice it, we've got retcons out the ass. Which I'm fine with. I enjoy the property and I'm no canon zealot, I just know how things work.

How Wars was a retcon, that team of Spartans, by the original numbers, they didn't exist. They were retroactively added into the ranks, but still don't fit in with the established novels that came before, hell, the books themselves ignore each other. Numbers are all over the place on Spartans, but the general, accepted canon is that Spartans didn't get near the 259 number, or above, so, if both of these individuals are Spartans, we've got retcons, per Joe's confirmation, and putting the pieces together.

Still confused?


Have you seen my thread? It offers a way to create the story/plot with little to no retcons.

  • 11.09.2009 5:19 PM PDT

...Love, love is a blind man's game, you have to look around to know where you are...

Posted by: Pahat Pojat
This is Sierra-259 you got Spartans on the ground, sir. We're not going anywhere


Haha Spartans we're not....

  • 11.09.2009 5:28 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: P3P5I
Posted by: Seggi31
It is possible that 259 and 320 are not Spartans, but it would be illogical. Yes, 'Sierra', being of the phonetic alphabet, could refer to many things, but it would be completely nonsensical to defy the blindingly obvious point that Bungie knows that everyone who follows their games knows that 'Sierra' is typically used to refer to a Spartan. To reject this would be a blunt betrayal of sub-conscious normality, one which I severely doubt Bungie would commit to.

So you are saying it is not in Bungie's personality to deceive us?


In a sense, yes. There is a vast difference between deception on a direct and implied level. When something such as this is said to the point where you should assume, without it being actually stated, for the obvious assumption to be wrong, it is more betraying than if they were to state it, then later retract it.

  • 11.09.2009 5:33 PM PDT

*Silloin kun näyttää siltä että ei ole mitään hätää niin tulee hälytyskellojen soida
*Neuvostoliiton hajoaminen oli vain showta
*Saksa on löytänyt uuden tavan vallata Eurooppa ilman yhtäkään panssarivaunua

I want Sierra-259 and his team story of members, that are encountering the flood on Reach while fighting the Covenant, much rather than saving Dr. Halsey.

  • 11.09.2009 5:33 PM PDT
  • gamertag: Zereta
  • user homepage:

How did this come back all of a sudden? Haha.

DISCUSSION Y'ALL!

  • 11.10.2009 3:40 AM PDT

  • Pages:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • of 4