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Subject: Reach needs realistic physics!

There are two things on this forum that piss me off;
Idiots and group invites.
What's even worse, is that I can never seem to get away from either of them ¬_¬
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"I would have been your daddy, but the dog beat me over the fence."

I'm sure many of you here have played Halo 3. I'm sure you all know how it works, both in gameplay and looks. This thread is about looks and the general lack of sensible physics found in Halo 3. I have two main concerns and will list them individually.


Bodies
You don't have to be a Halo 3 veteran to see a body fly. All sorts of explosions will send bodies flying through the sky and landing in a bloody mess on the other side. So what's the problem here? Well, it's really quite simple. Flailing.

That's right. When any body, be it a Spartan, a Marine, even an Elite, goes flying, they flail. It doesn't matter how long they've been dead. It doesn't matter how long they've been in the air for. They will flail until they hit the ground. And this is completely unrealistic.

It was funny the first time, alright the second time, but now, it's just ridiculous. Now, it may be a simple problem, but to be honest, it's stupid and ruins a good screenshot when every body in sight is waving their hands in the air like they're dancing.

But then, not all bodies flail...

No. If a body isn't flailing through the air like a lunatic, it stays as hard as a rock. Completely still, totally unmoving and utterly unrealistic, yet again.

When a body falls through the air, it doesn't flail, unless the body is still alive and chooses to flail his arms. Neither does it stay completely still. It will move according to the direction it was thrown and the force applied to it. Hopefully in Halo: Reach, we will see bodies falling through the air in a realistic fashion.


Collision Detection
No, this isn't about the little hole in the Elites head that everyone seems to be able to hit so perfectly. This is about the way bodies, weapons, objects ETC interact with each other. Unlike in Halo 3, in which they don't.

Again, you don't have to have been playing Halo long to notice this massive flaw in the physics of the game. When ever a body, or weapon collides with a box, you would expect it to hit the box and fall to the floor. However, Halo 3 likes to be different and let the body keep going as if the box wasn't there. Is it just me, or is that a tad unrealistic?

Here is a little example. You can even try this out yourself.
A player stands upon a crate. He is shot and killed. His body and equipment will fall through the box, as if it wasn't their. So even though he was able to interact with it while he was alive, in death, his body appears to lose it corporeal form.

It may not seem like much, but think about other instances. This doesn't just apply to bodies. Weapons and equipment cannot be placed on top of objects, or even vehicles. And anyway, doesn't it annoy you when you kill the driver of a Warthog and he just falls through the car?


Now these problems are almost purely aesthetic. As such, some of you might not care. However, would you still want to play a game if the graphics where removed, if every environment was as grey as the last? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't. So come on, let's have some realism. Let us hope that in Halo: Reach, Bungie remember that objects can't simply fall through one another and that dead bodies are incapable of flailing.

Thankyou for your time, I expect this topic to be buried in somewhat under five minutes, which is about the same amount of time it took for me to write it.

[Edited on 10.25.2009 6:40 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2009 6:33 AM PDT

I just hope the vehicles in this game have a little weight to them. I don't get how a Warthog can hit the tiniest bump at 20mph and completely start a wheelie or flip over. Can they please weigh more than 2 pounds in this game?

[Edited on 10.25.2009 7:18 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2009 7:17 AM PDT
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  • Senior Mythic Member

Proud frenchie, elite fan, anthro artist not hellbent on yiff convention/pics/whatever, mature and intelligent forum guy, 4chaner, halo 2 lover and halo 3 hater.

you know what, I made a thread about your "bodies" problem... I personally call them swimming bodies. which is really ridiculous. this death animation have been in every halo games to date... and it's stupid.
is the spartan alive to flail his arms? does he dies by hitting the ground, not because of the tank shell that exploded on his helmet? is the ground made of anti spartan dirt? :/ dunno, but in any case, it's really ridiculous and I hope they remove it.

and I agree with the rest of your points. ragdolls ftw.

  • 10.25.2009 7:25 AM PDT

There are two things on this forum that piss me off;
Idiots and group invites.
What's even worse, is that I can never seem to get away from either of them ¬_¬
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"I would have been your daddy, but the dog beat me over the fence."

Posted by: Kaiyuss
I just hope the vehicles in this game have a little weight to them. I don't get how a Warthog can hit the tiniest bump at 20mph and completely start a wheelie or flip over. Can they please weigh more than 2 pounds in this game?


True, I find that most of the vehicles in the game are a bit light. They go flying far too easily...

  • 10.25.2009 8:14 AM PDT

MechanicalHorizn:
You must lay a sacrifice on the almighty altar of FRAG. It demands you get 4 kills with 1 laser shot.
Only then will the gods be appeased.

Me: Im going to hell...

I disagree with the OP. I love Halo's physics! The physics in Halo are what sets it apart from most other game. You get all these OMGWTF moments and it brings amusement.

  • 10.25.2009 8:29 AM PDT

I wish they would allow signatures at the end of someones post... Would be fun.

Why cant we all just agree that Halo is perfect as it is. Bungie never lets us down. If it affects the realism, then go play CoD. Its 2000 in the future, there are aliens, and more. C'mon.

  • 10.25.2009 8:37 AM PDT

Killionaire

i agree... especially considering that MJOLNIR armor weighs more than the man inside the suit. it doesnt make sense that you fly that far when a rocket hits the ground and you jump just in time for it to hit, and that extra momentum sends you screaming to the other side of the map.


ehem...

1000 pounds of armor, and a wee little rocket made that spartan just fly across the map. WTF?!

what im trying to say is, if you die, you should CLUNK to the floor, because your dead weight. im not saying dont put any animation into the death, but these guys are heavy. they shouldnt take off like a cruise missle when they get blown up.

[Edited on 10.25.2009 8:41 AM PDT]

  • 10.25.2009 8:38 AM PDT
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"You must be mistaken, Reclaimer. I've met your makers, and they don't even know your name..."

I'd like to derail a portion of the OP's post with this cop-out:

The SPARTANS and Elites have an auto-reactive gel layer built into their armor that locks when they've suffered trauma, to keep them from injuring themselves further. This is why they don't flail about when they die. However, for Marines I can agree on this.

I'd like some better physics, but not too much better. I like Halo's slightly cartoony vibe.

  • 10.25.2009 8:38 AM PDT

There are two things on this forum that piss me off;
Idiots and group invites.
What's even worse, is that I can never seem to get away from either of them ¬_¬
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I would have been your daddy, but the dog beat me over the fence."

Posted by: Panzeereapa
I'd like to derail a portion of the OP's post with this cop-out:

The SPARTANS and Elites have an auto-reactive gel layer built into their armor that locks when they've suffered trauma, to keep them from injuring themselves further. This is why they don't flail about when they die. However, for Marines I can agree on this.

I'd like some better physics, but not too much better. I like Halo's slightly cartoony vibe.


They shouldn't, that would actually cause them more trauma. Ever tried jumping and landing with your legs straight?

And I'm not asking for this game to OMG UBER REALISTIK! I just don't think it's right when a body falls straight through a crate. That isn't funny, it's just stupid...

  • 10.25.2009 8:40 AM PDT
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"You must be mistaken, Reclaimer. I've met your makers, and they don't even know your name..."

They're wearing a ton of armor. I don't think it would hurt them too bad :)

And I agree on that point. I'd like to see the collisions be better, at least to the point where bodies bounce off crates (or given the weight of the SPARTANS and Elites, crates bounce off bodies)

  • 10.25.2009 8:42 AM PDT

There are two things on this forum that piss me off;
Idiots and group invites.
What's even worse, is that I can never seem to get away from either of them ¬_¬
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I would have been your daddy, but the dog beat me over the fence."

Posted by: ChasePin
Why cant we all just agree that Halo is perfect as it is. Bungie never lets us down. If it affects the realism, then go play CoD. Its 2000 in the future, there are aliens, and more. C'mon.


Because it isn't? Why can't people understand what game realism is? Just because it's years in the future and includes aliens doesn't mean it should have screwed up physics and corpses that come to live every time they get thrown around.

  • 10.25.2009 8:43 AM PDT

There are two things on this forum that piss me off;
Idiots and group invites.
What's even worse, is that I can never seem to get away from either of them ¬_¬
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"I would have been your daddy, but the dog beat me over the fence."

Posted by: Panzeereapa
They're wearing a ton of armor. I don't think it would hurt them too bad :)

And I agree on that point. I'd like to see the collisions be better, at least to the point where bodies bounce off crates (or given the weight of the SPARTANS and Elites, crates bounce off bodies)


Yes, but to be honest, it wouldn't do them any good either.

And thanks for understanding my point :)

  • 10.25.2009 8:47 AM PDT

Posted by: Kaiyuss
I just hope the vehicles in this game have a little weight to them.
This is my general issue with the physics engine. There is a weighting to things, but it's a simple and innaccurate scale. I also hope that, on a broader level, they make all weights appropriate.

I also hope they develop a physics effect for things being melted by plasma. If you die by Wraith mortar, you should be sizzled to vapour. Or maybe just half of you. Use that Mature rating, Bungie.

  • 10.25.2009 8:57 AM PDT

Dude, too freakn' true about the bodies flailing their arms everywhere. They're dead but somehow manage to swim through the air. I just don't know where Bungie got the idea of that. That could work if you were hit by an explosive but didn't die and flailed your arms as you were flying through the air, and once you've hit the ground you push yourself up. But if a corpse is able to flail it's arms around like a maniac then that just isn't very good realism.

  • 10.25.2009 9:05 AM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

I think realistic physics is acceptable as long as there's a chance for catastrophically overpowered physics impulses to occur.

Basically, people shouldn't flip when you BR them, but say you rocket a vehicle, then you can go all-out with the excuse that "this is the future, we use a pea-size amount of C10 in our rockets..."

Thus making ridiculous events less frequent but all the more spectacular.

  • 10.25.2009 9:07 AM PDT

It's not that they wouldn't add it in, it's that they probably won't. Having every object capable of interacting with another object via collision detection would add quite a truckload more of physics processing to the Xbox 360's load. Bungie would then have to cut something out to make room for the improved physics.

This is why older games had virtually no physics at all, and if they did, they were very simple.

The other possible reason is having objects capable of interacting with eachother would add to network traffic during multiplayer games.

  • 10.25.2009 9:19 AM PDT

*Bobfather17*

I <3 the ridiculous physics. Getting hit with a gravity hammer while in a mongoose and splattering someone so they fly 500ft into the air is why I play halo. Falling through crates I would assume is just to make the game run easier, and if they have spare runtime they should go ahead and change that.

  • 10.25.2009 9:24 AM PDT

God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea; Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof.” – Psalms 46:1-3

Sorry, But no.

Reach does not need realistic physics, Neither does any other game for that matter, they would ruin the experience a game is not supposed to be realistic.


Everything should be -50 or +50 of the norm.


In other words falling extremely slow, breaking into way more pieces than usual, and more gore than ever possible in real life or less than should be seen.


These are the things that make a game not realism.

  • 10.25.2009 9:48 AM PDT

_______
-...you are a gigantic female genitalia sanitizing apparatus.

Posted by: angry0lbgrampa
Sorry, But no.

Reach does not need realistic physics, Neither does any other game for that matter, they would ruin the experience a game is not supposed to be realistic.


Everything should be -50 or +50 of the norm.


In other words falling extremely slow, breaking into way more pieces than usual, and more gore than ever possible in real life or less than should be seen.


These are the things that make a game not realism.


I think somebody doesn't understand the meaning of atmospheric experience.

  • 10.26.2009 5:07 PM PDT

I just read your firs thing about flailing bodies. They did that in halo 1 man, I havn't seen a body flail in halo for a long tim. Only when I play halo 1.

  • 10.26.2009 5:10 PM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

You know, I don't believe that I've ever seen a game in which moveable objects interact with corpses. Perhaps this is an issue with Havok physics rather than any developer.

Concerning the "arm waving" it would perhaps be best if bodies ragdolled instantly unless their death was triggered by falling below a death barrier.

  • 10.26.2009 5:13 PM PDT

they really should fix the flailing bodies thing.

it should be that if a body is thrown into the air, it is just a ragdoll

they should also fix the delay when you explode one fusion coil, then one next to flies away, then the first one explodes like 5 secs later

[Edited on 10.26.2009 5:18 PM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 5:17 PM PDT

Mattman jr

the bodies not moving isn't a bug or glitch. its like chief at the beginning of H3. he was frozen in one position because of the fall he had taken. When ever the armor of a spartan is pushed to its limit (you may notice the body staying in one position during splatters more then anything.) the armor locks up to try and keep the user from breaking bones. thats why chief can fall a few kilometers and be fine.

  • 10.26.2009 5:28 PM PDT

ISU Cyclones!

I'd have to agree with the flailing dead body thing but I like the bodies that fly around and the vehicles that go flying from a Grav Hammer or a sticky to the passenger seat.

Bodies morphing into crates or laying sideways on thin air I assume aren't supposed to happen all the time. But when the big semi truck decides to respawn and there's a spartan in his way I find it hilarious and awesome that it'll sometimes just freak out on spawn and splatter the spartan that was in its spot.

  • 10.26.2009 5:53 PM PDT
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  • Elder Legendary Member

Posted by: BurntBiscuits
I'm sure many of you here have played Halo 3. I'm sure you all know how it works, both in gameplay and looks. This thread is about looks and the general lack of sensible physics found in Halo 3. I have two main concerns and will list them individually.


Bodies
You don't have to be a Halo 3 veteran to see a body fly. All sorts of explosions will send bodies flying through the sky and landing in a bloody mess on the other side. So what's the problem here? Well, it's really quite simple. Flailing.

That's right. When any body, be it a Spartan, a Marine, even an Elite, goes flying, they flail. It doesn't matter how long they've been dead. It doesn't matter how long they've been in the air for. They will flail until they hit the ground. And this is completely unrealistic.

It was funny the first time, alright the second time, but now, it's just ridiculous. Now, it may be a simple problem, but to be honest, it's stupid and ruins a good screenshot when every body in sight is waving their hands in the air like they're dancing.

But then, not all bodies flail...

No. If a body isn't flailing through the air like a lunatic, it stays as hard as a rock. Completely still, totally unmoving and utterly unrealistic, yet again.

When a body falls through the air, it doesn't flail, unless the body is still alive and chooses to flail his arms. Neither does it stay completely still. It will move according to the direction it was thrown and the force applied to it. Hopefully in Halo: Reach, we will see bodies falling through the air in a realistic fashion.


Collision Detection
No, this isn't about the little hole in the Elites head that everyone seems to be able to hit so perfectly. This is about the way bodies, weapons, objects ETC interact with each other. Unlike in Halo 3, in which they don't.

Again, you don't have to have been playing Halo long to notice this massive flaw in the physics of the game. When ever a body, or weapon collides with a box, you would expect it to hit the box and fall to the floor. However, Halo 3 likes to be different and let the body keep going as if the box wasn't there. Is it just me, or is that a tad unrealistic?

Here is a little example. You can even try this out yourself.
A player stands upon a crate. He is shot and killed. His body and equipment will fall through the box, as if it wasn't THERE . So even though he was able to interact with it while he was alive, in death, his body appears to lose it 's corporeal form.

It may not seem like much, but think about other instances. This doesn't just apply to bodies. Weapons and equipment cannot be placed on top of objects, or even vehicles. And anyway, doesn't it annoy you when you kill the driver of a Warthog and he just falls through the car?




Good post, just get the grammar right.

Anyway, time to play the part of the troll.


ITZ A GAM GET OVR IT LOL.

Seriously though, does it hurt you? Does it impact your gaming experience? If it does, it needs to be fixed. If it doesn't then it doesn't need to be fixed.

[Edited on 10.26.2009 6:16 PM PDT]

  • 10.26.2009 6:15 PM PDT

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