Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Weapons, Campaign, and how exactly they all come together in H: R
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If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: lucas rincon
i liked the changesbut i dont think that the flood will be on this game.

I'm not speculating that. Just IF they're in the game. We've been duped before into fighting more Flood, and ironnically stepped into the Covenant's shoes.

Posted by: PandaJerk007
I like a lot of your ideas, but I'm not so sure about the plasma weapons burning out... I want the Covenant weapons to be used almost as much as the UNSC ones, which could actually happen with the ways you changed the plasma weapons to be powerful and unique in their own ways. However with the burn out I really don't see that happening, unless they have relatively short respawn times.
In Halo 1 the energy sword and fuel rod gun had a "burn out", which I won't entirely mind seeing in Reach as long as it is only like that in campaign. I think it would be cool if when you are playing campaign on easy, normal, or heroic the Energy Sword burns out, but on legendary it wouldn't. This would make the energy sword a more special weapon, and keep legendary hard but still fun.

Also I don't think the Flood should have a secondary weapon if they are in the game...

I'm not sure if you realized, they don't all burn-out. If the unit has the opposite weapon equipped (will probably be done if you're standing back picking targets off). Have you ever stopped to see just how many weapons are left over after a battle these days? Most of them disappear after you move 6 feet from the battle to improve processing power. What's going to happen if you suddenly have this many weapons left over capable of competing in strength with a sniper? You'd never want to let go of them. You would regularly charge into battle duel-wielding as many as you can (with another set of two in reserve). There HAS to be some sort of control over this madness.

Also yeah, you're probably right about the Flood.

Posted by: YahwehFreak4evr
Not bad, still reading it but felt compelled to post before this goes back into oblivion. Good for you for experimenting with creativity!

I always seem to do this when I don't even have an Xbox anymore. My latest dropped the E74 bomb about 5 weeks ago. And I have no idea why, but I'm put in a much better mood once I finally get this off my chest despite the response I may get. Then it's back to studying, pop-quizes, and Math problems. Speaking of which.

Posted by: xReconAssassinX
Very creative, but some of it is very un-realistic, such as duel wielding and suffering no accuracy lose or damage lose, I'm prett sure if you were duel wielding a weapon and tried to shoot it your one hand could not hold it straight, nor hit the target.

And it would be completely useless to duel wield a sword, because it's instant kill anyways, there is no point in it.

Realism. You sure you want to go down that well paved road? Anyways, I just have this image for duel-wielding that's never been fully realized in Halo. The ol' western gun slinger picking a gun for each target alternating back and forth taking down 4 people with the blink of an eye. While that particular example would be pretty rediculous, it's more of a persona to live up to.

Posted by: TubbierPainter
i just went to china,
no wall. =(

I went to Texas.

And it snowed.

[Edited on 10.27.2009 6:30 PM PDT]

  • 10.27.2009 5:18 PM PDT

I like most of your Ideas Banshee, The only Complaint I have about any of them is the magnum, while I'd love having the ol Halo M6D back(basically what your suggesting without a scope) I kinda think the ODST pistol is the most balanced of all of them. Fast firing rate but weak bullets. Two Human pistols would be awesome. I'd actually like to see the ODST pistol and a Desert Eagle like gun that whoops ass.

Also, The Dual Wielded swords could be used to mow through a large conglomerate of enemies. Say on construct, you jump up the Yellow lift, Got Five enemy bad guys staring you in the face, no prob, you have Dual Energy swords. I think the lunge should be there when dual weilding. Kinda like the Arbiter in Halo Wars. Just make the Swords only spawn once on the map and have you wait to get the second.

  • 10.27.2009 8:50 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: lol a palooza64
I like most of your Ideas Banshee, The only Complaint I have about any of them is the magnum, while I'd love having the ol Halo M6D back(basically what your suggesting without a scope) I kinda think the ODST pistol is the most balanced of all of them. Fast firing rate but weak bullets. Two Human pistols would be awesome. I'd actually like to see the ODST pistol and a Desert Eagle like gun that whoops ass.

Also, The Dual Wielded swords could be used to mow through a large conglomerate of enemies. Say on construct, you jump up the Yellow lift, Got Five enemy bad guys staring you in the face, no prob, you have Dual Energy swords. I think the lunge should be there when dual weilding. Kinda like the Arbiter in Halo Wars. Just make the Swords only spawn once on the map and have you wait to get the second.

I've yet to play ODST. No Xbox, no money =(. It sounds like it'd be even more powerful then the M6D from what I've heard.

The concept I'm sticking with for Duel-Swords is the middle ground from the critique I've gotten over the years. One extreme says the entire idea is humbug while the other thinks there should be no delay animation and both can be used to lunge. I can't agree with either side, but this is an idea I can live without. It's more for coolness and added convenience then it is a strategy changer.



Keep the critique coming guys. A thread this massive has major momentum, usually falling back to page 6 before you have a chance to blink.

  • 10.28.2009 12:04 AM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: bansheeownz
Keep the critique coming guys. A thread this massive has major momentum, usually falling back to page 6 before you have a chance to blink.

Woop spoke too soon. A couple days passed and me thread fells to the 1one page. I want to try and beat my record on the public forum of 4 pages. I know... fail. I could probably do it if I just made a single post per idea at a time and just hope something catches on. Seeing as it's such a popular debate (even though you jerks aren't interested in debating), I should just do one about the Plasma Pistol.

But you see, all my ideas relate and support each other, especially when talking about Campaign. Take the new Jackal, for instance. It always carries a Carbine for long range (rarely equipping a Beam Rifle) and a Plasma Pistol with a Hand Shield. Suddenly an enemy carrying this arsenal is a legitimate threat to you for if your shields are down, you are at risk of losing your head, or getting blasted by a charge shot. And in combination with resistance to stun animations (like the one where the Jackal exposes himself from his hand shield), they will be both tough to kill, and have the ability to... actually kill you!

That's why I need a single thread. I just need people to listen to what I have to say. So far the track record is not interested and even though they disagree with me, they don't even TRY to present a counter argument. It bothers me. Yeah sure, I'm responding to flamers, but really, its the only response I've gotten so far. It's the reason I post on a public forum and not continue to hide among private groups. I want the PUBLIC's attention.

  • 10.29.2009 9:55 PM PDT

The ODST pistol is kinda rapid fire weak gun thats a head shot maniac. If you increase the head shot kill to two bullets to the head it might be plausible in multiplayer. The other gun would have to have only 5-6 bullets in it to be balanced and a slow firing rate to make up for it being as powerful as a BR.

Just a note for anyone who might come through this and say, OMG Wall of text I'm to lazy to read it!, or "Those ideas suck, this thread sucks, you suck." Tell us WHY YOU THINK THEY ARE BAD AND WHAT YOU WOULD DO TO IMPROVE HIS IDEA.

As for the "overpowered plasma Pistol" Think of it in terms of "How often do you use the damn thing anyway?" It only has three shots, it has no tracking, its short range, its a fckin shotgun if you have two of em, it doesn't make the old Charge punch any more effective, and it may get people to actually use it for once. Thats the point of Banshees Idea's, to make EVERY weapon useful, so that not one has a huge advantage over the other. So there can be more than just people who can use a BR and people who can't. For Example, take a look at my stats and see how many BR kills I have. Its the most out of all of the others right? then look how LITTLE USED the other weapons are in comparason(disregarding the melee and AR). Theres no variety whatsoever! This allows for people who are terrible with a BR to get some kills for once, adding variety.

If you need me to justify any other weapon I'll gladly do it.

  • 10.30.2009 5:57 PM PDT

Fear my Pink Mist...

Posted by: Zipp117
You really expect someone to read all this?


I did.

  • 10.30.2009 6:26 PM PDT

To Further prove my point that this is a good Idea, I have more kills with CONES than I do with the Plasma pistol.

  • 10.30.2009 6:29 PM PDT

Fear my Pink Mist...

No you dont, stop exadurating.

[Edited on 10.30.2009 6:31 PM PDT]

  • 10.30.2009 6:30 PM PDT
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I haz cookies.

Cool

  • 10.30.2009 6:32 PM PDT

Yes I do, I have two with cones and one with the pistol.

Another good Idea might be to choose your secondary weapon. If the Plasma pistol were a choice as a secondary weapon and it had these powers it might be very useful. Implement it with the two other pistols I suggested and you'd have some tough choices on pistols.

EDIT: Stats Fail, I was looking at my deaths, but regardless, I've been killed MORE TIMES WITH A CONE than I have with a plasma pistol.

[Edited on 10.30.2009 6:36 PM PDT]

  • 10.30.2009 6:34 PM PDT

*Bobfather17*

I might get to more later, but here are my comments on the Duals section:

Dual Wield- Those are the staple things that balance the fact that you are holding two weapons and things that make dualing different from using one gun. The problem with duals in Halo 3 was that the weapons were nerfed because they were duals. Dualing should be a feature of a weapon rather than weapons be based around dualability. If that's unavoidable, then maybe there shouldn't be dualing. As a final note, D-pad L/R are terrible buttons to incorporate in the very middle of gameplay.

Burn Out- Why? This doesn't make much sense gamewise or balancewise.

New Health System- I like being able to see your health and recharging, but 30 seconds is very long and varying health will cause a sort of randomness to what should be fair battles. Health packs bring on their own set of issues, especially if they're able to be used at any time.

Plasma Rifle- This isn't really the type of gun that would have homing. I think that the bullets should be a bit bigger and faster to put it into the medium range game.

Pistol- 1 shot would kill an unshielded opponent, it's a headshot weapon. But yes, I do like the idea of a CE-like pistol. I think it could make a good replacement for the BR as the standard weapon, with the BR not really appearing or becoming very specialized.

Plasma Pistol- Why ruin such an awesome weapon? It's a support weapon and you're making it into a generic weapon that tries to win the game by itself. It can give you an advantage over other BRs if you have one, overcharge + beatdown kills, it stalls vehicles, it is useful. Adding headshots wouldnt make sense and it goes against the support weapon idea. The small shots can even be used to keep someones shields down (although they could use more damage, especially in campaign). Headshots would make it less of a support weapon and wouldn't make any sense.

Spiker- Full auto weapons shouldn't get headshots, the decision of life or death is left in the hands of the random spread. The spiker just needs to hurt more.

Sword- You can throw aside your dual and lunge at any time, not a good idea. Dual swords might be cool to see in campaign though.

Overall, your ideas seem to want to change the purpose of some things entirely, and Ignore the fact that changes should make sense to the fans and the halo universe.

  • 10.30.2009 8:42 PM PDT

You've Been SHWEGALED!!!

My friend, what you've written is pure gold. I love it! you have some fantastic ideas, and I think It really like to play your version of the game.

But Halo games are platinum.

Why?

It's not just a bunch of awesome ideas thrown together and worked out in your head. Its thousands of man-hours spent coding and weeks upon weeks of play testing.

Keep in mind that I'm not bashing you in the least!

Its just that I'm hard pressed to believe that Bungie hasn't thought of a good deal of that stuff. And I'm sure if you wrote a book about all the reasons that they abandoned those ideas and settings, you would have needed several more posts to tell us all about it.

Your dead right on the realistic-factor. Master Chief is one baddass half-ton walking beast of a super soldier. And we are suppose to be playing a realistic game. But who are we to criticize them? where is your imagination? Nobody criticizes the flood, or slipspace, or the forerunners, or any of that. Why? because its part of a story, not real life. If I wanted real life, I'd go outside and airsoft or paintball, which I frequently do. But I play Halo because it's not real. Its a fantastic adventure, one I could never predict.

And those vehicles, those weapons, those creatures and controls even, are all a part of that.

So, you try getting up in the morning and having anything and everything you want. I'll bet it'd be cool at first. but then, It'd get awful boring.

Seeing as Bungie has churned out 4 great games before, I trust another one will soon follow, and weather or not they take your advice, (which would be pretty epic), I'm still going to buy the game, plop down on my poofy couch one late Saturday night, and have the time of my life.


Hats off to your outstanding creativity and jaw-dropping amounts of rich content. You never bored me once... (Best WOT ever...)

[Edited on 10.30.2009 9:30 PM PDT]

  • 10.30.2009 9:28 PM PDT
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wow, i disagree with alot of these things. i do agree that the pp should be able to kill better with no shields, but not with carrrying health packs and dual wield weapons. meeleing with two guns would be cool though.

  • 10.30.2009 9:35 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: lol a palooza64
To Further prove my point that this is a good Idea, I have more kills with CONES than I do with the Plasma pistol.

That's right. What I'm hoping to balance is usefulness vs. power. This is what is necessary to compete with the most useful weapons in the game and even then, it's safe to assume the BR will STILL be a more popular weapon in the game, and I'm not trying to change that.

Posted by: lol a palooza64
Another good Idea might be to choose your secondary weapon. If the Plasma pistol were a choice as a secondary weapon and it had these powers it might be very useful. Implement it with the two other pistols I suggested and you'd have some tough choices on pistols.

You're onto something. Default AR and PP (instead of the current Magnum) may become common in certain Matchmaking games if testing approves. Definitely not all of them obviously, especially ones with a BR start.

Posted by: Bobfather7
I might get to more later.

I'm counting on it.

Dual Wield- Those are the staple things that balance the fact that you are holding two weapons and things that make dualing different from using one gun. The problem with duals in Halo 3 was that the weapons were nerfed because they were duals. Dualing should be a feature of a weapon rather than weapons be based around dualability. If that's unavoidable, then maybe there shouldn't be dualing. As a final note, D-pad L/R are terrible buttons to incorporate in the very middle of gameplay.
I get the feeling the reason duels are the way that they are now is because of compromise. There is likely debate IN Bungie where there are people for duels and think they should be in unnerfed like this and those that believe it'd be plain too powerful and the entire idea of it should be simply removed altogether. I say, either implement it with full intention of keeping weapons as powerful as possible, or forget it entirely.

Dammit new idea! What say it WERE implemented with these features? Surely, many people would be appalled by the changes, but why? Isn't Halo supposed to be a customized experience? Ahh, and there you have it. There is no custom option to keep people from duel-wielding. And if there were, testing by developers and players will sort out all the extra complaints that people might have. It helps whenever the flexibility is capable of accommodating and Forge has done tenfold over H2 because of it providing both new standards to play, and mutations by our sick minds (making race tracks and obstacle courses).

Burn Out- Why? This doesn't make much sense gamewise or balancewise.
You know, I've a change of heart. It is really meant to cut down on the number of Plasma Pistols always readily available in Campaign due to the endless hordes of Grunts you inevitably pick off but now that I think about it, variety will not be an issue due to the fact that every enemy carries a secondary weapon as well as a primary weapon. After a battle, you'll always have plenty of Plasma Pistols, Needlers, Carbines, and Plasma Rifles at your fingertips (that's assuming Elites are the primary enemy again), and that's just the Covenant arsenal alone. What worried me was that people might be tempted to play through the entire game using only the Plasma Pistol. Sounds no better then H3 and the BR lol. Remember range, though. Range is the main reason rifles are so preferred and that's not changing. What is changing is greater accommodation for an even wider range of play styles.

New Health System- I like being able to see your health and recharging, but 30 seconds is very long and varying health will cause a sort of randomness to what should be fair battles. Health packs bring on their own set of issues, especially if they're able to be used at any time.
Notice the underline. That's the idea. Your health doesn't charge all of a sudden after 30 seconds. It is constantly regenerating at a rate of 1/30 per second when your shields are up. What this means is that you will are encouraged NOT to rely on it at all if you've taken a beating but sometimes it's just not possible to run and get a health pack, like if you're the flag defender or the designated sniper holding position. There are advantages to both H1's system and our current system. This is a cool compromise as well as being able to carry health packs with you. Also further clarification, you can only carry one health pack but you don't spawn with them. You have to pick them up from spawn points OR, from dead players. They can be picked up as easily and seamlessly as equipment.

WAIT A SECOND! What if a Health Pack WAS equipment?!

Plasma Rifle- This isn't really the type of gun that would have homing. I think that the bullets should be a bit bigger and faster to put it into the medium range game.
Would that work? Would it really be that much more useful? Allow me to present exhibit B; the Brute Shot. Its projectiles are large but it's rarely used past AR range even though it's great for that range. No, this is the only way to create a weapon with slow moving (RELATIVELY) projectiles that is useful past AR range and that his homing. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

Pistol- 1 shot would kill an unshielded opponent, it's a headshot weapon. But yes, I do like the idea of a CE-like pistol. I think it could make a good replacement for the BR as the standard weapon, with the BR not really appearing or becoming very specialized.
What I meant by 2 unshielded is 2 body shots. A headshot is a headshot. And I'm not trying to replace the BR. This weapon does not have the range of a BR.

Plasma Pistol- Why ruin such an awesome weapon? It's a support weapon and you're making it into a generic weapon that tries to win the game by itself. It can give you an advantage over other BRs if you have one, overcharge + beatdown kills, it stalls vehicles, it is useful. Adding headshots wouldnt make sense and it goes against the support weapon idea. The small shots can even be used to keep someones shields down (although they could use more damage, especially in campaign). Headshots would make it less of a support weapon and wouldn't make any sense.
All of those things you mentioned are not changing. Wouldn't these changes be making it MORE of a support weapon? Just a few things to keep in mind, this weapon will be VERY unique. Nothing generic about it. Why, because of projectile speed and SCARCE all-purpose charges. It can disable vehicles, overcharge shields and completely eliminate unshielded targets.

Headshots would make it MORE of a support weapon.

It will act as a way to conserve your charge shots for when they are needed. That way you won't have to rely on another weapon to justify holding onto this. You could carry this and say... a Needler for instance and not feel naked not holding onto anything that doesn't give headshots. It doesn't REPLACE headshot specialized weapons.

Spiker- Full auto weapons shouldn't get headshots, the decision of life or death is left in the hands of the random spread. The spiker just needs to hurt more.
Doesn't seem so random to me when most combat with duel weapons is point blank.

Sword- You can throw aside your dual and lunge at any time, not a good idea. Dual swords might be cool to see in campaign though.
Fair enough. Guess I didn't formulate much of an argument here so I get what I deserve. I still stand by it though. Dueling swords WOULD be used, just not in a wide a range as non-dueling swords.

Overall, your ideas seem to want to change the purpose of some things entirely, and Ignore the fact that changes should make sense to the fans and the halo universe.

And what ever gave you that idea. It's not like I want the magnum to suddenly launch explosive charges that destroy vehicles as fast as they kill players (even though that'd be epic) or make a Rocket Launcher as weak as a Brute Shot (that would suck) or turn the shotgun into a mid-range weapon.

Anyways ran out of space. I'll save a bump/post for when my thread inevitably falls back to page 5 again for the rest of you guys.

And yeah, I'm counting on you coming back, Bobfather7. Can't wait to hear what you think about the PRIMARY purpose of this thread, lol.

  • 10.31.2009 5:37 AM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Anyways ran out of space. I'll save a bump/post for when my thread inevitably falls back to page 5 again for the rest of you guys.
Well here's page 4. Guess I'll continue replies since I have time.

Posted by: acidRain burns
My friend, what you've written is pure gold. I love it! you have some fantastic ideas, and I think It really like to play your version of the game.

But Halo games are platinum.

Why?

It's not just a bunch of awesome ideas thrown together and worked out in your head. Its thousands of man-hours spent coding and weeks upon weeks of play testing.

I'm sorry if I made it seem like they were thrown together but the more I elaborate on why things should be the way they are... the longer and more torturous the end product is going to be. And also ideas like these are no doubt the product of debate within Bungie's own studio. I can't deny the endless hours spent making sure everything works properly (remember when H3 was made, out of the rubble that was H2. Obviously they're trying to avoid glitches like sword cancels and super jumps) but as for actual balance and purpose, not nearly as much time has been spent experimenting from what I've seen. It caused certain aspects and possible strategies to be overlooked. It's possible they're afraid of altering from the very strict settings after H2, but why H2? H1 did it so much morer awesomer er. Shouldn't that be a primary focus? The "30 seconds of fun."

Dammit, now I lost my train of thought. Maybe more of your response will get me back on track.

Keep in mind that I'm not bashing you in the least!

Its just that I'm hard pressed to believe that Bungie hasn't thought of a good deal of that stuff. And I'm sure if you wrote a book about all the reasons that they abandoned those ideas and settings, you would have needed several more posts to tell us all about it.

Trust me. They have. There's no way they hadn't. I'm not trying to say the entire studio is retarded. They've done a great deal to please the fans and me particularly with things like Forge ensuring the PERFECT balanced map based on the systems current weapon scheme becomes ever closer, but I believe that will make possible making everything as potentially useful as it can possibly be.

Your dead right on the realistic-factor. Master Chief is one baddass half-ton walking beast of a super soldier. And we are suppose to be playing a realistic game. But who are we to criticize them? where is your imagination? Nobody criticizes the flood, or slipspace, or the forerunners, or any of that. Why? because its part of a story, not real life. If I wanted real life, I'd go outside and airsoft or paintball, which I frequently do. But I play Halo because it's not real. Its a fantastic adventure, one I could never predict.
Okay... what? I'm not trying to address realism at all here, man. Where the heck did you get that idea. I'm trying to make a game... a game! The game it was always meant to be. I suppose if these settings make the game SEEM more realistic, I guess that's a plus.

And those vehicles, those weapons, those creatures and controls even, are all a part of that.
Okay, now I get it...

You didn't read past the first paragraph, did you?

So, you try getting up in the morning and having anything and everything you want. I'll bet it'd be cool at first. but then, It'd get awful boring.
Or better yet, is this entire post a mistake? Did you have two tabs open and posted in the wrong one?

Seeing as Bungie has churned out 4 great games before, I trust another one will soon follow, and weather or not they take your advice, (which would be pretty epic), I'm still going to buy the game, plop down on my poofy couch one late Saturday night, and have the time of my life.
Umm... yeah... I'll do that *speaking sarcastically but so as not to attract attention*

Hats off to your outstanding creativity and jaw-dropping amounts of rich content. You never bored me once... (Best WOT ever...)
Hooray for ideas and people not even reading them!

Posted by: masterchef1
wow, i disagree with alot of these things. i do agree that the pp should be able to kill better with no shields, but not with carrrying health packs and dual wield weapons. meeleing with two guns would be cool though.

Rather odd choice of favors and disfavors. Guess that proves I shouldn't drop people under certain demographics for liking or disliking certain ideas.

*sigh* I'm trying so damn hard to get your guys' attention but I'm not giving up. Over time, this thread will become something, but I just need to be patient.

  • 10.31.2009 2:49 PM PDT

*Bobfather17*

I get the feeling the reason duels are the way that they are now is because of compromise. There is likely debate IN Bungie where there are people for duels and think they should be in unnerfed like this and those that believe it'd be plain too powerful and the entire idea of it should be simply removed altogether. I say, either implement it with full intention of keeping weapons as powerful as possible, or forget it entirely.

Dammit new idea! What say it WERE implemented with these features? Surely, many people would be appalled by the changes, but why? Isn't Halo supposed to be a customized experience? Ahh, and there you have it. There is no custom option to keep people from duel-wielding. And if there were, testing by developers and players will sort out all the extra complaints that people might have. It helps whenever the flexibility is capable of accommodating and Forge has done tenfold over H2 because of it providing both new standards to play, and mutations by our sick minds (making race tracks and obstacle courses).


So you're suggesting that weapons be made to work alone and have duals as an option? If so, then I agree. Although I think that when dualing is on, it should have the restrictions of the classic way with less power when dualed and drop on weapon switch, melee, etc.


You know, I've a change of heart. It is really meant to cut down on the number of Plasma Pistols always readily available in Campaign due to the endless hordes of Grunts you inevitably pick off but now that I think about it, variety will not be an issue due to the fact that every enemy carries a secondary weapon as well as a primary weapon. After a battle, you'll always have plenty of Plasma Pistols, Needlers, Carbines, and Plasma Rifles at your fingertips (that's assuming Elites are the primary enemy again), and that's just the Covenant arsenal alone. What worried me was that people might be tempted to play through the entire game using only the Plasma Pistol. Sounds no better then H3 and the BR lol. Remember range, though. Range is the main reason rifles are so preferred and that's not changing. What is changing is greater accommodation for an even wider range of play styles.

It may be a good idea for the sword though. I think there was an explanation for disappearing in CE, so they could throw in sword enemies without giving you a power weapon. They don't have to disappear in MP, but if they did, it would make it more different from the hammer and shotgun.

Notice the underline. That's the idea. Your health doesn't charge all of a sudden after 30 seconds. It is constantly regenerating at a rate of 1/30 per second when your shields are up. What this means is that you will are encouraged NOT to rely on it at all if you've taken a beating but sometimes it's just not possible to run and get a health pack, like if you're the flag defender or the designated sniper holding position. There are advantages to both H1's system and our current system. This is a cool compromise as well as being able to carry health packs with you. Also further clarification, you can only carry one health pack but you don't spawn with them. You have to pick them up from spawn points OR, from dead players. They can be picked up as easily and seamlessly as equipment.

WAIT A SECOND! What if a Health Pack WAS equipment?!


My problem with it is that it's invisible to other players. Especially if you use a health pack in mid battle it may feel like you got out-gunned for no reason, especially with health pack equipment. Halo 3's has the idea of being a bit more careful for a bit if you just lost health, just it doesn't take that long.

Would that work? Would it really be that much more useful? Allow me to present exhibit B; the Brute Shot. Its projectiles are large but it's rarely used past AR range even though it's great for that range. No, this is the only way to create a weapon with slow moving (RELATIVELY) projectiles that is useful past AR range and that his homing. Feel free to prove me wrong though.

The brute shot doesn't nearly have as fast of a rate of fire. Even in close quarters, hitting walls around your enemies is perferred to trying to hit them directly. The PR has a stream of bullets instead. Making that stream thicker and faster would make it much harder to avoid.

What I meant by 2 unshielded is 2 body shots. A headshot is a headshot. And I'm not trying to replace the BR. This weapon does not have the range of a BR.

The only problem with a powerful pistol is that it would be really similar to a BR. I think it should be accurate and the bullet should travel at the speed it did in CE.

All of those things you mentioned are not changing. Wouldn't these changes be making it MORE of a support weapon? Just a few things to keep in mind, this weapon will be VERY unique. Nothing generic about it. Why, because of projectile speed and SCARCE all-purpose charges. It can disable vehicles, overcharge shields and completely eliminate unshielded targets.

Headshots would make it MORE of a support weapon.

It will act as a way to conserve your charge shots for when they are needed. That way you won't have to rely on another weapon to justify holding onto this. You could carry this and say... a Needler for instance and not feel naked not holding onto anything that doesn't give headshots. It doesn't REPLACE headshot specialized weapons.


Killing power isn't a support weapon role. A support weapon should need another weapon to justify holding on to. The whole idea of the plasma pistol is that despite being weak, it is very useful.

The biggest problem with this is that it doesn't make any sense gamewise. The PP is well established as being a weapon that is very ineffective against health, having a very weak rapid fire, and being common in the covenant arsenal. What you're making is basically an entirely different weapon altogether.

Doesn't seem so random to me when most combat with duel weapons is point blank.

The spiker can still shoot pretty far (just not at a fast pace). Spray weapons just shouldn't get headshots. It's just very unfitting to the skill vs reward. And what would make it stop at spikers? What makes spikers get headshots and not SMGs, ARs, etc.

Fair enough. Guess I didn't formulate much of an argument here so I get what I deserve. I still stand by it though. Dueling swords WOULD be used, just not in a wide a range as non-dueling swords.

The problem is that dualing swords would be used. You can have a weapon out and at the same time have a sword just as ready to be used as if you didn't have a sword. Also, you never really explained what dualing two swords would do.

And what ever gave you that idea. It's not like I want the magnum to suddenly launch explosive charges that destroy vehicles as fast as they kill players (even though that'd be epic) or make a Rocket Launcher as weak as a Brute Shot (that would suck) or turn the shotgun into a mid-range weapon.

Anyways ran out of space. I'll save a bump/post for when my thread inevitably falls back to page 5 again for the rest of you guys.

And yeah, I'm counting on you coming back, Bobfather7. Can't wait to hear what you think about the PRIMARY purpose of this thread, lol.


lol, the pistol and shotgun comments sound like halo 1. The reason I say that is that instead of changing up and tweaking how current features work, you suggest entirely new things (such as PP getting headshots). This doesn't remotely follow how things have worked for the past four games (where, for instance, only precision weapons get headshots).

Sorry I didn't get to any new things, maybe next time.

  • 10.31.2009 4:24 PM PDT

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I think the plasma pistol will run out of ammo too quickly in multiplayer. With the plasma pistol having 50% less ammo and a charged shot using up 40% of the total ammo, you would pick it up and before you know it you would be out of ammo and having to look for a new weapon. In campaign that wouldn't be a problem because of all the grunts. I suggest that you make it so that maintaining the overcharge for the plasma pistol doesn't waste any of the ammo, like in halo 1 and 2.

I also think that either the spartan laser should have a much more visible red targeting line, or that it shouldn't have a scope. As it is it makes driving in vehicles a death trap. Out of no where you will be lasered from across the map. Not having a scope would make the spartan laser a lot more skillful at far range. A more visible targeting laser could alert observant drivers that they need to get to cover and that if they don't they will probably be killed.

  • 10.31.2009 5:06 PM PDT

Nice work, u got some awesome creative ideas.
I agree partly with the hammer one: it would be cool if once swung the hammer, a bigger shock-wave sent players back like half a meter or a few feet and could (sometimes, not always) deflect grenades and rockets.
I dont agree with some though, like the sword idea seems kinda pointless. No one would choose it except for screenshots and stuff, but in campaing and matchmaking, no one would dual weild it, since it doesnt have any advantage.

  • 10.31.2009 5:10 PM PDT
Subject: Weapons and related Campaign ideas: Awaiting Criticism and Ideas

"You have a lot of questions. I'm going to assume that they're all hypothetical." - Urk

Standard

Plasma Pistol: Reduced range but Halo 2's homing.

Why: The homing would make the plasma pistol actually useful while the reduced range would keep it from overbalancing

Assault Rifle: Larger clip size

Why: Simply put the AR has just enough bullets to kill a target without reloading.

Brute Shot: Larger clip size (maybe increased to 6-7 shots), less damage but larger explosion radius

Why: The brute shot is too... well its basically only got one use (close range combat) and in that area its too effective. If you give it a larger explosion radius it'll be able to be used in different ways such as bombarding enemies from mid range while team mates take them down with the BR

Close Range

Shotgun: More damage and slightly increased effectiveness range

Why: Halo 3's shotgun is too weak in comparison with the mauler (meaning there isnt enough of a difference), the mauler is faster firing longer ranged and does exactly what the Shotgun does (Shotgun melee). Has anyone else noticed that the shotgun is far worse at bulltruing then it used to? Adding more damage and increased range would make the shotgun more than the mauler is currently.

Gravity Hammer: Larger radius of smash

Why: Making the smash more useful as opposed to just the normal lunge.

Special

Spartan Laser: Reduce ammo capacity on medium sized maps like Last Resort but increase it on larger more vehicular maps. (Meaning allow an ability in forge to change the amount of ammo in the Splaser)

Why: This would make the Spartan laser less oppressively fearsome on medium sized maps.

Sentinel Beam: Obviously make it MUCH weaker, allow it in multiplayer

Why: Its a cool weapon, very accurate but too powerful and not used in multiplayer.

  • 10.31.2009 5:41 PM PDT
Subject: Weapons, Campaign, and how exactly they all come together in H: R

I am Field Master Avu Med 'Telcam, Servant of the Abiding Truth, and I have many brothers.

A god who creates tools is still a god. It is not for us to impose qualifications upon the divine or presume to guess its intentions.

I skimmed through most of it and they all seem like good ideas. nice work but shorten it up next time.

  • 10.31.2009 6:18 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: Bobfather7
So you're suggesting that weapons be made to work alone and have duals as an option? If so, then I agree. Although I think that when dualing is on, it should have the restrictions of the classic way with less power when dualed and drop on weapon switch, melee, etc.

I disagree but that's just me. Maybe the idea should be expanded even more to choose between "classic restrictions".

It may be a good idea for the sword though. I think there was an explanation for disappearing in CE, so they could throw in sword enemies without giving you a power weapon. They don't have to disappear in MP, but if they did, it would make it more different from the hammer and shotgun.
Yeah umm, I scratched the idea altogether. It's unpopular and has no reason to even be there. Just thought it'd be something cool. Although your explanation given for why they're there in the first place is exactly why I suggested it in the first place.

My problem with it is that it's invisible to other players. Especially if you use a health pack in mid battle it may feel like you got out-gunned for no reason, especially with health pack equipment. Halo 3's has the idea of being a bit more careful for a bit if you just lost health, just it doesn't take that long.
Well that's an easy fix and a great suggestion. So you're saying it should be visible and there is some sort of easy to read animation or aura for when health packs are used, and how to know if a player has one. That's great. I'll add it at once. Speaking of which, they should do that for ALL equipment (being able to see what equipment someone has rather then having it magically come out of someone's ass.

The brute shot doesn't nearly have as fast of a rate of fire. Even in close quarters, hitting walls around your enemies is perferred to trying to hit them directly. The PR has a stream of bullets instead. Making that stream thicker and faster would make it much harder to avoid.
Ahh, now I remember. The original was like that too (without the rate of fire thing). And it was much more efficient because of it. I'm torn between the two ideas but I'm actually more inclined to accept your idea because I know it works.

The only problem with a powerful pistol is that it would be really similar to a BR. I think it should be accurate and the bullet should travel at the speed it did in CE.
Your suggestions will only make that worse. If it's more accurate, that defeats the purpose. It will pretty much trump the BR and with that, every other weapon for that matter.

Killing power isn't a support weapon role. A support weapon should need another weapon to justify holding on to. The whole idea of the plasma pistol is that despite being weak, it is very useful.

The biggest problem with this is that it doesn't make any sense gamewise. The PP is well established as being a weapon that is very ineffective against health, having a very weak rapid fire, and being common in the covenant arsenal. What you're making is basically an entirely different weapon altogether.

Look man. The games library has expanded so tremendously over the years. It doesn't make sense to me to be forced to rely on other weapons anymore; especially if you run into a power weapon like a Sniper. Suddenly, holding onto a Plasma Pistol doesn't make sense. The whole idea that a weapon should be forced to rely on other weapons is ridiculous. Try to look at it from the grunts perspective (which is what I plan to do in my next article. It should be obvious why). They are inferior for ass-backwards reasons that don't make any sense. They don't have energy shields (and I'm not suggesting they do), and they don't carry a weapon that can actually kill things. Why does everything have to be justified from the perspective of Spartans? I'm telling you now, I still won't use the new Plasma Pistol most of the time and I know I won't despite these perfect advantages. It useless at range and its ammo won't last, but I would consider using them if nothing else is readily available. In our current system, it doesn't even cross my mind sinking low enough to actually pick them up.

The spiker can still shoot pretty far (just not at a fast pace). Spray weapons just shouldn't get headshots. It's just very unfitting to the skill vs reward. And what would make it stop at spikers? What makes spikers get headshots and not SMGs, ARs, etc.
Why not? Is there some sort of unspoken rule to auto-weapons not giving headshots? Plenty of other games do it and it works out great. Their projectiles don't even have a noticeable speed you can track and even dodge. Why is it that when I suggest improvements, people take it as it will now have a primary purpose of actually doing those things? What does that say about the current weapons we have now? Says a lot if you ask me.

I just think things should be flexible and that is what my suggestions set out to do. If they are not flexible, they should specialize in either short lived power, or a particular area of combat.

The problem is that dualing swords would be used. You can have a weapon out and at the same time have a sword just as ready to be used as if you didn't have a sword. Also, you never really explained what dualing two swords would do.
It doesn't do anything, lol. Just provide further... you guessed it... flexibility to the player. What say they're carrying a Rocket Launcher for worst case scenario, and a sword? Besides grenades, they just won't have any way to combat in areas of mid range combat (unless they have a clear shot). If they were able to duel-wield a Sword, they can at least equip SOMETHING to defend themselves with (like an SMG or Pistol).

lol, the pistol and shotgun comments sound like halo 1. The reason I say that is that instead of changing up and tweaking how current features work, you suggest entirely new things (such as PP getting headshots). This doesn't remotely follow how things have worked for the past four games (where, for instance, only precision weapons get headshots).

Sorry I didn't get to any new things, maybe next time.

They are both suggestions I've made before that people have EXTREME prejudice against. If you like them, well that's cool I guess.

Anyways, wow! I guess advertising actually does work. Sorry I didn't get to you guys sooner but I DO have a life (I know! Really!). I ran out of space and I probably could have gotten to everyone if I wasn't doing all that quoting but, quoting is important. I've learned the hard way why. Them mods be trigger happy.

  • 11.01.2009 3:31 PM PDT
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I believe that the Jakals shield should become a pick up.

Like if you pick it up you can use it to mele and also dual weild a gun with it but this idea probably would have been beter with ODST to increase there life span

Also the hunters cannon should be a usable weapon aswell because the fuelrod cannon is just plain useless

also make it so that more of the covenant become playable eg you can play as a brute or a hunter etc

  • 11.01.2009 3:38 PM PDT

If you want to see the MC die, play Legendary. If you want to see MC finish the fight, play Halo 3. If you want to see MC finish the fight by dieing, why did you waste six years when you could have done it yourself right now?

☼►Popular Fusion - Doing anything, everything, and then some.◄☼

Posted by: PandaJerk007
I think the plasma pistol will run out of ammo too quickly in multiplayer. With the plasma pistol having 50% less ammo and a charged shot using up 40% of the total ammo, you would pick it up and before you know it you would be out of ammo and having to look for a new weapon. In campaign that wouldn't be a problem because of all the grunts. I suggest that you make it so that maintaining the overcharge for the plasma pistol doesn't waste any of the ammo, like in halo 1 and 2.

I also think that either the spartan laser should have a much more visible red targeting line, or that it shouldn't have a scope. As it is it makes driving in vehicles a death trap. Out of no where you will be lasered from across the map. Not having a scope would make the spartan laser a lot more skillful at far range. A more visible targeting laser could alert observant drivers that they need to get to cover and that if they don't they will probably be killed.

I think being able to maintain charges doesn't make sense in the first place. It attempted to encourage people to stop doing it but people do it anyway (for long periods of time which really confuses me). The changes you're suggesting would only further encourage people to leave their weapons overcharged.

As for the Laser, that's a pretty good idea. Half the time, the laser is invisible due to connection and detection issues. Whenever I do notice it though, it helps to warn me when the detection doesn't come a split second too late (but that could also be the user pointing away while it charged)

Posted by: Fedecooldude
Nice work, u got some awesome creative ideas.
I agree partly with the hammer one: it would be cool if once swung the hammer, a bigger shock-wave sent players back like half a meter or a few feet and could (sometimes, not always) deflect grenades and rockets.
I dont agree with some though, like the sword idea seems kinda pointless. No one would choose it except for screenshots and stuff, but in campaing and matchmaking, no one would dual weild it, since it doesnt have any advantage.

It does have an advantage when you take into account a players entire arsenal. They carry a primary and secondary but they can also duel-wield. Think of it this way. Instead of being able to throw grenades, they also have the option to use another weapon instead.

Posted by: X Recon A
Standard

Plasma Pistol: Reduced range but Halo 2's homing.

Why: The homing would make the plasma pistol actually useful while the reduced range would keep it from overbalancing

Not too sure how to respond to this one. Back when I first started doing this, the H2 Plasma Pistol was the antagonist to what my first few articles were for. Could you elaborate on what you mean by reduced range? Do you mean homing only works in close quarters?

Assault Rifle: Larger clip size

Why: Simply put the AR has just enough bullets to kill a target without reloading.

It does. It has plenty. It all depends on how far away you are though.

Brute Shot: Larger clip size (maybe increased to 6-7 shots), less damage but larger explosion radius

Why: The brute shot is too... well its basically only got one use (close range combat) and in that area its too effective. If you give it a larger explosion radius it'll be able to be used in different ways such as bombarding enemies from mid range while team mates take them down with the BR

It already has 6 grenades. Where did you learn to count, lol. It does its job and has great repercussions for balance. A long reload time and a short blast radius. It's fine the way it is.

Close Range

Shotgun: More damage and slightly increased effectiveness range

Why: Halo 3's shotgun is too weak in comparison with the mauler (meaning there isnt enough of a difference), the mauler is faster firing longer ranged and does exactly what the Shotgun does (Shotgun melee). Has anyone else noticed that the shotgun is far worse at bulltruing then it used to? Adding more damage and increased range would make the shotgun more than the mauler is currently.

The shotgun has a very light difference though. It has extra range and damage but only a little. In my experience the Shotty is far MORE effective than the Mauler too. And I can't be the only one that thinks that. In fact, I know I'm not.

Gravity Hammer: Larger radius of smash

Why: Making the smash more useful as opposed to just the normal lunge.

I said that already but the feature could have been overshadowed by the ability to counter grenades.

Special

Spartan Laser: Reduce ammo capacity on medium sized maps like Last Resort but increase it on larger more vehicular maps. (Meaning allow an ability in forge to change the amount of ammo in the Splaser)

Why: This would make the Spartan laser less oppressively fearsome on medium sized maps.

It has 5 charges! How many less do you think it should have? I think the issue is in how often lasers can spawn and not an issue with the weapon itself.

Sentinel Beam: Obviously make it MUCH weaker, allow it in multiplayer

Why: Its a cool weapon, very accurate but too powerful and not used in multiplayer.

As I stated earlier, since all in all, things are getting more effective, the idea is that other weapons are merely catching up in effectiveness with the Sentinel Beam. Although I have a feeling it will still need slight adjustments to be more common in multiplayer first.

Posted by: matman25402
I skimmed through most of it and they all seem like good ideas. nice work but shorten it up next time.

This IS the shortened version. I've found that the more simplified the article becomes, the quicker people are to jump to conclusions or even miss the point of why the ideas were there in the first place.

Posted by: Halo Phoenix 13
I believe that the Jakals shield should become a pick up.

Like if you pick it up you can use it to mele and also dual weild a gun with it but this idea probably would have been beter with ODST to increase there life span

Also the hunters cannon should be a usable weapon aswell because the fuelrod cannon is just plain useless

also make it so that more of the covenant become playable eg you can play as a brute or a hunter etc

I agree about the shield and cannon but I just didn't get to that yet. In fact, I didn't cover new weapons at all in this article. First off, the cannon should be much more powerful. That as well as the Scarab gun (seriously, why the heck did they make those things so dang weak). About your last sentence, I plan to have an entire article elaborating on playing as the Covenant and why it would be there. I was actually going to put it in here but after 3 posts total, I think readers have enough on their hands with what they've got already.

  • 11.01.2009 4:12 PM PDT
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I liked a lot of the ideas.

  • 11.02.2009 7:29 AM PDT

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