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This topic has moved here: Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
  • Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.

I see where you're coming from for sure, but if there were more mid range encounters (which can be done by restoring weapon firing ranges back to what they were in Halo 1) rather than everyone just rushing at an opponent and meleeing them once their AR clip runs out, these occurrences would be less frequent and wouldn't be as big of an issue.

  • 10.29.2009 10:37 AM PDT
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Posted by: A7XEric
I see where you're coming from for sure, but if there were more mid range encounters (which can be done by restoring weapon firing ranges back to what they were in Halo 1) rather than everyone just rushing at an opponent and meleeing them once their AR clip runs out, these occurrences would be less frequent and wouldn't be as big of an issue.


I agree. I also think that the melee system in Halo 3 is too simple. What I mean by that is, if they are on your screen and you press the melee button at the appropriate range you will hit them no matter what. In halo 2 you actually had to have your reticule on them in order to land a successful melee. This allowed players to doge and duck under melee attacks, which widened the skill gap.

  • 10.29.2009 11:27 AM PDT

BEFORE ME YOU TREMBLE

perhaps things would be more fun if they dropped a BR in a map like the drop a sniper in a map.

  • 10.29.2009 12:01 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.

  • 10.29.2009 12:28 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: The BS Police
With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.


While this may help the previously dual weildable weapons be rebalanced to function as singles, this will not remove the utility of the BR, which is the biggest issue with it. Personally I think the mindset that the weapons all need to function well at mid-range is a foolish notion, Halo is and always has been played all over the place. If anything the BR needs to be changed to ONLY function well at the mid range.

Personally I feel the entire weapon set needs an overhaul, but everything needs to be balanced as a set. Currently the BR sticks out like a sore thumb because it is too useful. The very fact that it is highly used, and the weapon of choice for the self-branded competitive gamer shows it's utility.

  • 10.29.2009 12:40 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: A7XEric
I'd have to say you are dead wrong. EVERY weapon has significantly cut range from what they had in Halo 1, including the sniper rifle. You could have base to base sniper fights on blood gulch if you wanted in Halo 1, though in Halo 2's blood gulch you can't. The weapon just won't shoot that far.

But nevermind that example, seriously, boot up a copy of both games, pick any weapon that is both games and see the furthest you can stand from an enemy while still your reticule turns red. You'll notice in Halo 2, 3, and ODST that you have to be MUCH closer to an enemy for your reticule to turn red and be able to shoot accurately.

Again it's not a problem with any weapon in particular, it's a problem with the game's mechanics. It's EVERY weapon. Bungie needs to just extend the range of how far all of weapons can shoot, or rather how far you can be away from an opponent while still keeping your reticule red and being able to shoot accurately. THAT is the problem, NOT the BR.


Why is that a problem? If every gun's range is shorter than even if you upped all the guns ranges simultaneously nothing would change. You would merely have the same problem at slightly longer distances. The BR does too much damage, period. It is too easy to kill with compared to other guns and therefore it needs to be nerfed slightly. Especially its headshot capability. Perhaps all three bullets should have to land in the head for a headshot to count? This would be far more effective if the gun was semi-auto with a five shot kill and a range extension while using the scope (at the moment the BR's range doesn't change depending on scope use).

There are many ways to subtely balance the BR without modifying the entire weapon set which means tons and tons of inter-balancing mechanics and issues that need to be worked out rather than just rebalncing a single weapon.

Posted by: A7XEric
I actually don't find too much of a problem with the melee power in the game. Players need a good way to defend themselves at close range, especially if they run out of ammo (which is bound to happen because bungie has nerfed the ammo acounts of every weapon in the game since Halo 1). The ridiculous tracking and heatseaking lunges are a different story though. I personally say they should keep the current power of melee attacks but ditch the heatseaking lunges.

But anyways, meleeing wouldn't even be an issue in this equation if all of the weapons in the game weren't nerfed in terms of their range like I talked about in my previous posts. Just think about it. If players weren't FORCED to get in a close range encounter (because no close to mid range weapon, other than the BR and Carbine, shoots at a distance farther than 5 feet) these melee situations wouldn't be as common. If the weapons had more range, a lot more kills would be done at a distance, rather than all of them in these close encounter situations.

I'm not talking about the power either, the lunge is the problem. The main reason why Halo CE was about shooting your enemy, not punching him, was because melee's were almost as difficult as a no-scope at point blank. You had to be directly on top of your enemy, and the animation had to actually make contact with them. It was riskier than most maneuvers in the game.

Players aren't "forced" towards the melee, the melee at the moment is just a better option than shooting the whole time. Upping the power and range of weapons would mean upping the running speeds to make strafing easier due to the range increase as well as upping map size which in turn would leave us at the exact same place as before. The only option is to modify the BR in one of its aspects or several of them subtly. These aspects being map presence, spawn rate, damage, rate of fire, clip size, recoil and range.

I think we can all agree that the rate of fire and range are perfectly fine. The variables that need work are the damage, spawn rate, map presence, recoil and clip size. These variables will change or not depending on what else on the weapon changes. So say the damage is reduced to to a 5-6 burst kill, the ROF should probably stay the same as well as the clip size. Perhaps the burst is changed to full semi-auto, and a 5-6 shot kill is also added. The ROF would become variable with a max speed of 2/3's that of the current BR, but a higher recoil and a smaller clip making those shots count.

The gun doesn't have to kill so quickly to be effective and balanced. It still has the head shot. The problem is the gun lacks any other negatives besides a slow melee. It is spray, which means head shots aren't so hard to get and it has a kill capacity of 3 per clip without the help of grenades. With the help of grenades (assuming you pick up enough for one per enemy) it has a kill potential of 12 per clip. That is ludicrous. Especially with the prevalence of the gun on maps and their quick respawn rate.

The weapon has many factors that contribute to it dominating. And while the other weapons are a factor, they aren't one of the key problems.

  • 10.29.2009 12:44 PM PDT

Posted by: Duardo
I'd love to be a 10 year old and tell my mom I'm going on an adventure out into the world catching Pokemon, with her full support. Never mind the fact that there are rapists, criminals, and murders out there, or the fact that I may get killed by a Pokemon.

Luckily I have Pikachu.

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: The BS Police
With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.


While this may help the previously dual weildable weapons be rebalanced to function as singles, this will not remove the utility of the BR, which is the biggest issue with it. Personally I think the mindset that the weapons all need to function well at mid-range is a foolish notion, Halo is and always has been played all over the place. If anything the BR needs to be changed to ONLY function well at the mid range.

Personally I feel the entire weapon set needs an overhaul, but everything needs to be balanced as a set. Currently the BR sticks out like a sore thumb because it is too useful. The very fact that it is highly used, and the weapon of choice for the self-branded competitive gamer shows it's utility.
The BR isn't all that usefull outside of medium range. It's random spread brings out inconsistent results at both medium and longe range. It's also outmatched at close range due to the AR.

The only reason why it seems overpowered is due to the fact that Dual Weilding makes every weapon less usefull, from the Plasma Pistol to Grenades, eveything is effected by Dual Weilding.

The Halo 3 Needler proved that concept, Halo 3: ODST proved it aswell. The BR is only overpowered because everything else bellow it's range is underpowered.

[Edited on 10.29.2009 12:52 PM PDT]

  • 10.29.2009 12:51 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

The BR can outperform the AR easily due to the ease of headshot. The burst is a double edged sword, making headshots extremely simple to grab but causing many inconsistencies making the BR a horrible rifle. But despite the gun being inconsistent, it is consistent enough and powerful enough to outperform all other weapons. I agree that the weapons are weak due to DW, but they aren't weak until you DW them in Halo 3. Thy perform rather well when not DW'ed.

I hardly ever DW unless I am SMG'ing a covenant vehicle. The main reason being I switched to boxer to kill that habit. The Pistol isn't all that bad. Sure it is a bit too difficult to aim properly not having a scope, but it can kill rather well. The same can be said for the PR (although most plasma weapons require melee, which is somewhat strange). I prefer the plasma mechanic from Halo 1, minus the freeze. I still feel this problem would be understood by changing the melee mechanics back to no lunge or a minuscule amount of homing with no lunge. This would force weapons dependent on melees for kills to be upped in power (not range necessarily).

But even if you do this, the BR will still dominate. The gun is just too useful in too many situations.

  • 10.29.2009 12:57 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: The BS Police
With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.


While this may help the previously dual weildable weapons be rebalanced to function as singles, this will not remove the utility of the BR, which is the biggest issue with it. Personally I think the mindset that the weapons all need to function well at mid-range is a foolish notion, Halo is and always has been played all over the place. If anything the BR needs to be changed to ONLY function well at the mid range.

Personally I feel the entire weapon set needs an overhaul, but everything needs to be balanced as a set. Currently the BR sticks out like a sore thumb because it is too useful. The very fact that it is highly used, and the weapon of choice for the self-branded competitive gamer shows it's utility.
The BR isn't all that usefull outside of medium range. It's random spread brings out inconsistent results at both medium and longe range. It's also outmatched at close range due to the AR.

The only reason why it seems overpowered is due to the fact that Dual Weilding makes every weapon less usefull, from the Plasma Pistol to Grenades, eveything is effected by Dual Weilding.

The Halo 3 Needler proved that concept, Halo 3: ODST proved it aswell. The BR is only overpowered because everything else bellow it's range is underpowered.


I'm not sure who your watching play, but I've seen the BR tear AR users a new one at closer ranges. The only time i've seen a BR suffer at short range is pointblank against either a shotty or sword. BR's can play hell with snipers because a single bullet of the spread will knock the scope off.

I've seen the BR used to such great effect that there is no way I could state that it's popularity is due only to the shortcommings of the other weapons. Once again, I feel the whole system should be redone for Reach, with a fresh start that actually focuses on balance, not only ease of use.

  • 10.29.2009 1:12 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: The BS Police
With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.


While this may help the previously dual weildable weapons be rebalanced to function as singles, this will not remove the utility of the BR, which is the biggest issue with it. Personally I think the mindset that the weapons all need to function well at mid-range is a foolish notion, Halo is and always has been played all over the place. If anything the BR needs to be changed to ONLY function well at the mid range.

Personally I feel the entire weapon set needs an overhaul, but everything needs to be balanced as a set. Currently the BR sticks out like a sore thumb because it is too useful. The very fact that it is highly used, and the weapon of choice for the self-branded competitive gamer shows it's utility.
The BR isn't all that usefull outside of medium range. It's random spread brings out inconsistent results at both medium and longe range. It's also outmatched at close range due to the AR.

The only reason why it seems overpowered is due to the fact that Dual Weilding makes every weapon less usefull, from the Plasma Pistol to Grenades, eveything is effected by Dual Weilding.

The Halo 3 Needler proved that concept, Halo 3: ODST proved it aswell. The BR is only overpowered because everything else bellow it's range is underpowered.


exactly

  • 10.29.2009 2:05 PM PDT

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
The BR can outperform the AR easily due to the ease of headshot. The burst is a double edged sword, making headshots extremely simple to grab but causing many inconsistencies making the BR a horrible rifle. But despite the gun being inconsistent, it is consistent enough and powerful enough to outperform all other weapons. I agree that the weapons are weak due to DW, but they aren't weak until you DW them in Halo 3. Thy perform rather well when not DW'ed.

I hardly ever DW unless I am SMG'ing a covenant vehicle. The main reason being I switched to boxer to kill that habit. The Pistol isn't all that bad. Sure it is a bit too difficult to aim properly not having a scope, but it can kill rather well. The same can be said for the PR (although most plasma weapons require melee, which is somewhat strange). I prefer the plasma mechanic from Halo 1, minus the freeze. I still feel this problem would be understood by changing the melee mechanics back to no lunge or a minuscule amount of homing with no lunge. This would force weapons dependent on melees for kills to be upped in power (not range necessarily).

But even if you do this, the BR will still dominate. The gun is just too useful in too many situations.


actually your wrong, the headshot capability doesnt effect anything unless your playing Halo 2 or SWAT. With the spread in halo 3 and the regristration system you'll have only 1 to 2 bullet land. Now the best place to shoot with every weapon is actually the chest, bigger target and same damage if you were shooting the head. Now the only way the BR actually out performs the AR in close range is if your running straight at the person or you get a 2 shot burst and melee which will result in tradeing kills.

  • 10.30.2009 7:03 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

My point is that you can spray for head shots because of the burst. So not only is making a head shot incredibly easy, but the gun can do this easy task from practically any range. The BR can easily defeat AR's at close range with the combination of a grenade, something the AR does not have an advantage with despite being a weapon that should. The BR was not the original utility gun, it was the AR. Watch an of the Halo 3 vidocs about MP and weapon design and a guy specifically talks about the AR's design and how it is meant to enhance the Halo trinity of grenades, melee and shooting.

The Br is never really refered to in any of those vidocs, specifically because the gun wasn't supposed to be a symbolic gun in Halo 3. It is the fact that it is overpowered and, for the lack of a better word, BETTER than the AR at this task. This doesn't make the gun a "good" gun, but an overpowered gun that is easy to use and rely on.

Has anyone in here ever considered the BR a hard gun to use? And don't just say yes for the sake of discussion like I know most people will. Honestly look at the gun and tell me it isn't a clone of every other gun you have touched in any other shooter. It is so simple and stale that anyone who has played an FPS can pick it up and automatically know how to use it. It isn't all its cracked up to be.

  • 10.31.2009 1:36 AM PDT
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Rexxxxxx

It won't be in Halo Reach because Bungie can't fine tune a multiplayer game. They make a great game engine then crap all over it by putting in AR starts, Equipment and CQB weapons all over the map.

  • 10.31.2009 3:20 AM PDT

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
My point is that you can spray for head shots because of the burst. So not only is making a head shot incredibly easy, but the gun can do this easy task from practically any range. The BR can easily defeat AR's at close range with the combination of a grenade, something the AR does not have an advantage with despite being a weapon that should. The BR was not the original utility gun, it was the AR. Watch an of the Halo 3 vidocs about MP and weapon design and a guy specifically talks about the AR's design and how it is meant to enhance the Halo trinity of grenades, melee and shooting.

The Br is never really refered to in any of those vidocs, specifically because the gun wasn't supposed to be a symbolic gun in Halo 3. It is the fact that it is overpowered and, for the lack of a better word, BETTER than the AR at this task. This doesn't make the gun a "good" gun, but an overpowered gun that is easy to use and rely on.

Has anyone in here ever considered the BR a hard gun to use? And don't just say yes for the sake of discussion like I know most people will. Honestly look at the gun and tell me it isn't a clone of every other gun you have touched in any other shooter. It is so simple and stale that anyone who has played an FPS can pick it up and automatically know how to use it. It isn't all its cracked up to be.


if it is easy to use why is everyone complaining it's overpowered? If it was so easy for the majority of the Halo community we would be all agreeing on just how it's overused. The combination with the grenade has nothing to do with BR v AR at close range. I can do the same thing with the pistol, carbine, or melee? That's more player choice of killing then the use of a specific weapon.

I agree with you about how the BR turn into the iconic weapon of halo. It was never meant to be, but was turned into it because it the players weapon of choice. You have more close range weapons then ranged weapons. Honestly whoever is playing when they play a fps they are going to pick of the weapon gives them a good chance of slaying.

I respect your points and arugements but the main probelm is it not overpowered but it is overused because it was made like that.

Halo has 2 mid range 2 longe range ( not counting Spartan laser)
and 10 or more CQC weapons. Then add large maps
what do you think the player will use?

  • 11.01.2009 9:44 PM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX

I'm not sure who your watching play, but I've seen the BR tear AR users a new one at closer ranges. The only time i've seen a BR suffer at short range is pointblank against either a shotty or sword. BR's can play hell with snipers because a single bullet of the spread will knock the scope off.

I've seen the BR used to such great effect that there is no way I could state that it's popularity is due only to the shortcommings of the other weapons. Once again, I feel the whole system should be redone for Reach, with a fresh start that actually focuses on balance, not only ease of use.


The carbine can do exactly what the BR does, just one shot at a time. It can knock a snipers scope off with one hit, then again so can every other weapon, you can hit a sniper scope off with a pistol from long range, all you need is good aim.

But I can almost guarntee that if we started with covenant weapons, and instead of getting BR we would get carbine, people would be calling the carbine unfair.

  • 11.01.2009 9:50 PM PDT
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Logic: It's the thing that I use to disprove your argument.

Get your facts straight before you argue with me, I don't like people -blam!-ing at me over something entirely unfounded.

Now regardless of how typical my opinion will probably sound. I do believe the BR needs to be nerfed, even if just a bit. My ranked kill percentage is around 20% BR (my top), because not only is the BR the norm; it is the single weapon that can damn near outclass any other. The BR is OP, and definitely overused.(BR Starts in Obj/Slayer much?); as well as being useful enough in close range with proper strafing and getting the first shot off, or even lucky encounters with people that have depleted shielding, that allows an easy kill on the enemy. I'm not one of the people who think that "Oh if you can't learn to BR you shouldn't use it or put it into Reach" along with similar ideas, but I do recognize it is OP.

  • 11.01.2009 10:36 PM PDT

i like me...

winning an encounter should not come down to who can "Out BR" who....

i recently played a local system link game with a couple of buddies of mine. now granted im a lot better then any of them so I attempted to not use a BR the entire time and tried to use other weapons such as carbine, pistol, brute shot, and others. Let me say, that was the most fun ive had playing halo in a long time!

if i did pick up a BR...its was just too easy to kill them...and got a lot less fun so id put it back down. people like the BR so much because it gives them easy kills with out having to get close. i'd rather use strategy and tactics to out maneuver my enemies to win over relying on a single weapon for easy kills because thats MORE FUN

  • 11.01.2009 10:38 PM PDT
  •  | 
  • Intrepid Legendary Member

blarg.

Reduce the clip size

  • 11.01.2009 10:40 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: The BS Police
With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.


While this may help the previously dual weildable weapons be rebalanced to function as singles, this will not remove the utility of the BR, which is the biggest issue with it. Personally I think the mindset that the weapons all need to function well at mid-range is a foolish notion, Halo is and always has been played all over the place. If anything the BR needs to be changed to ONLY function well at the mid range.

Personally I feel the entire weapon set needs an overhaul, but everything needs to be balanced as a set. Currently the BR sticks out like a sore thumb because it is too useful. The very fact that it is highly used, and the weapon of choice for the self-branded competitive gamer shows it's utility.
The BR isn't all that usefull outside of medium range. It's random spread brings out inconsistent results at both medium and longe range. It's also outmatched at close range due to the AR.

The only reason why it seems overpowered is due to the fact that Dual Weilding makes every weapon less usefull, from the Plasma Pistol to Grenades, eveything is effected by Dual Weilding.

The Halo 3 Needler proved that concept, Halo 3: ODST proved it aswell. The BR is only overpowered because everything else bellow it's range is underpowered.
You can change how Dual Wielding affects weapon effectiveness without removing it entirely.

I also want the Halo 1 strength back, but we can have both.

Just increase the penalty for dual wielding.

  • 11.01.2009 10:47 PM PDT

How to spell "space"?

S-P-ACE! SPACE!

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: The BS Police
With simple logic you can come to the conclusion that Dual Weilding is all that needs to be removed.


While this may help the previously dual weildable weapons be rebalanced to function as singles, this will not remove the utility of the BR, which is the biggest issue with it. Personally I think the mindset that the weapons all need to function well at mid-range is a foolish notion, Halo is and always has been played all over the place. If anything the BR needs to be changed to ONLY function well at the mid range.

Personally I feel the entire weapon set needs an overhaul, but everything needs to be balanced as a set. Currently the BR sticks out like a sore thumb because it is too useful. The very fact that it is highly used, and the weapon of choice for the self-branded competitive gamer shows it's utility.
The BR isn't all that usefull outside of medium range. It's random spread brings out inconsistent results at both medium and longe range. It's also outmatched at close range due to the AR.

The only reason why it seems overpowered is due to the fact that Dual Weilding makes every weapon less usefull, from the Plasma Pistol to Grenades, eveything is effected by Dual Weilding.

The Halo 3 Needler proved that concept, Halo 3: ODST proved it aswell. The BR is only overpowered because everything else bellow it's range is underpowered.


I'm not sure who your watching play, but I've seen the BR tear AR users a new one at closer ranges. The only time i've seen a BR suffer at short range is pointblank against either a shotty or sword. BR's can play hell with snipers because a single bullet of the spread will knock the scope off.

I've seen the BR used to such great effect that there is no way I could state that it's popularity is due only to the shortcommings of the other weapons. Once again, I feel the whole system should be redone for Reach, with a fresh start that actually focuses on balance, not only ease of use.

That exactly. No matter what the opposing argument says, the occurrences with the BR will always disprove it.

I have used the AR at close range, and ended up like a zombie, with a bullet in my head. The only time this doesn't happen is if I have the Sword, with a lunge.

Yes, balance would help, but imbalance could help as well.

Balance helps: Making weapons useful at other ranges
Imbalance helps: Weapons fill their niche better, if you bring a Shotgun to a long range fight, you shouldn't be able to kill, and vice versa.

The largest problem with making all weapons useful at all ranges is that we would have shotguns with a range of a modern ICBM, and a Sniper Rifle that... well, look at H3's Sniper. Useful at all ranges, like the BR.

  • 11.01.2009 10:52 PM PDT

Take off the skirt and put on some MAN PANTS!

wtf is the problem here?

People who can br play mlg

if u cant then go play something and spray 'n' pray

k bai

  • 11.02.2009 5:23 PM PDT

Allways on the move...

Posted by: Blitzboy289
Technically, all of the guns should be mid-ranged like the BR since they are guns and it is 500 years in the future. If they had a scope on the AR, or other rapid fire weapons, the overpowering use of the BR would dramatically decrease.


This has already happend..just not in multiplayer -ODST SMG

The BR and the carbine balance halo for all play types. The short range of the other weapons almost require a "run and gun" stratagy, that ends with a beat down because of the lack of firepower.
With a BR, a player has a choice to engange in more strategic gameplay by shooting, taking cover and shooting from a different position keeping the opponent confused and not just staring strait at you waiting to know who did the damage faster. (im not talking about camping, more keep moving while using cover)

  • 11.02.2009 6:20 PM PDT