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  • Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: iRun Bnet
ODST has no MP so its about as relevant as halo wars in this discussion.

Except Halo MP combat was directly related to campaign elements in EVERY game. So it has all the relevance.

Posted by: iRun Bnet
You mean just like HCE was pistol wars and H2 was BR wars, ya thats all the halo games. When all the games are the same way, thats what the game is.

But then Dual Wielding makes Halo 2 and Halo 3 not halo. Which I do personally agree with, but then again there alot of things in Halo that have changed. Unpleasant weapon fests that are monotonous are not things I want "preserved" in a game. Try playing a few Halo CE LAN games with the Pistol excluded. The game doesn't break down in the slightest.



Thats unplayable IMO. Just like a game without the BR in H2 or H3 is unplayable IMO.

I just do not find it fun, at all.

  • 10.28.2009 1:13 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Have you at least tried it?

  • 10.28.2009 1:14 AM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
It isn't about removing it necessarily. It is about balancing it. Most people from the Halo 2 era, especial MLG, loved the BR. But speaking with some of the top-tier players in MLG at the time, many of those high rankers actually HATED it. The only reason they used it was to keep up with the competition. This goes the same for the Halo CE pistol and the Halo 3 BR. The BR is a great gun, but it also isn't really much of a Halo gun. Halo 3 made it far more manageable, but it still dominates.

I personally preferred the Carbine in the Beta. While it was extremely overpowered in the beta, at least I killed what I shot at. The BR is more an exercise in faith, and the carbine has become one as well with its increased randomness in firing pattern. The mid-range weapon shouldn't be about killing quickly but be about aiming. It should be about placing rounds exactly where you want them (the BR is poor at this while the pistol wasn't and the Automag isn't either). This is why I love the automag so much. It is a perfect example of a mid-range weapon that has the potential to pressure an enemy but not overwhelm the rest of the guns.

Now I'm not saying the BR should be replaced by the automag. But I think that the gun proves that a mid-range gun doesn't need to be powerful to be effective.


Saying its not a halo gun or not befitting a halo game is nonsensical when every game has had it.

The game just wouldnt not be fun for a lot of people if the skill required areas where not rewarded with power.

  • 10.28.2009 1:17 AM PDT

There are much bigger problems in the game that need fixing/tweaking IMO.

  • 10.28.2009 1:18 AM PDT
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Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Have you at least tried it?


Of course I have. I played a game of team duels today were I literally was more amused with a thread in my chair than the game.

Everyone running around spraying and meleeing eachother does not appeal to me. Ranged headshot capable weapons with decipherable skill gaps that reward a player for playing well is what I enjoy.

  • 10.28.2009 1:19 AM PDT

I kinda find it funny how people are saying the BR kills to fast when the carbine can be used faster then the BR. I mean your suggested ideas are basicly a human version of the carbine. Why not just use the carbine? If you dont suck at aiming its better then the BR.

...Then again if you do suck with aiming there will be a thread in a week about how the Carbine is overpowered.

  • 10.28.2009 1:20 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

So your saying the only skill you should reward in Halo is aim? Any FPS player can aim fairly well. How often do you catch yourself "thinking" about aiming? So why would you add power onto this? It literally is a reward for reflexive gameplay rather than skillful and tactical solutions to a firefight.

Is it really that hard of a concept for people who do nothing but BR that what they do really isn't that difficult? Sure, there are degrees of skill within it, but honestly getting a four shot just isn't that amazing in Halo and most of the time a BR competition comes down to who got the first hit and/or is closer to cover, not who is better.

  • 10.28.2009 1:20 AM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: iRun Bnet
ODST has no MP so its about as relevant as halo wars in this discussion.

Except Halo MP combat was directly related to campaign elements in EVERY game. So it has all the relevance.

Posted by: iRun Bnet
You mean just like HCE was pistol wars and H2 was BR wars, ya thats all the halo games. When all the games are the same way, thats what the game is.

But then Dual Wielding makes Halo 2 and Halo 3 not halo. Which I do personally agree with, but then again there alot of things in Halo that have changed. Unpleasant weapon fests that are monotonous are not things I want "preserved" in a game. Try playing a few Halo CE LAN games with the Pistol excluded. The game doesn't break down in the slightest.

Posted by: iRun Bnet
The biggest thing im saying is fix melee. Its too powerful and too easy to use. Its 2 hit and near impossible to miss with. This negates any skill gap in that area and forces anyone with half a brain to avoid it at all costs.

Agreed. The lunge in Halo has always been a bad idea. It causes more hitting than shooter. Two hits is fine, just remove or drastically reduce the lunge so that melee is only practical when you are actually in melee distance.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Agreed. Everyone wants to take the skill gap away because they don't do as well as they would like in a game.

No. I think it has to do with the fact that while the BR takes skill, it is brainless. Anyone who plays shooters can aim the BR and strafe properly. That tactic is employed over many shooters (UT, Quake, Tribes, etc). But Halo isn't like other shooters. The game is about how to use the strategic elements you have brought to a fight tactically. Rock/paper/scissors with benefits you could say.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
I want Halo to remain competative. I think its stupid that people say the BR is a spammy headshot weapon. The real spam is the full autos.

Most weapons in Halo are spammy, the skill is to understand there is uses beyond that. Most people don't, which one of the reasons the BR is the weapon of choice.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
And its really rediculous that people are even suggesting giving a full auto weapon like the AR a headshot capability. Yeah real skill in getting head shots is blasting 30 bullets in one second. I am sure no real aim would be required and you would only need to aim it in the general direction

Entirely correct.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
the BR goes and lets say there is carbines on gaurdian for example... people will complain of that to once its used more and will say down with the carbine.

Well, technically the carbine shouldn't even exist IMO. It is the most oddball of all the Covenant weaponry. At the time of Halo 2 it was the only true Covenant weapon that was a projectile. The Beam doesn't even shoot bullets.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
But as I said in previous post lets take out the one weapon that really balances the sniper. Yeah lets transform the entire community into campers because you can't check the sniper from a distance. Lets turn what is a slect group of people, into the whole community and force everyone to play that way because in other peoples eyes it would be balanced

People say the Automag would be good at checking the sniper. Currently there are two problems with this weapon. It virtually does no damage and the rate of fire is as fast as you can pull the trigger ( i smell modded controller)


The sniper isn't so overpowered. This also comes to the idea that a map shouldn't be designed beyond the game's mechanics. So another reason the BR dominates is map design, lending itself to semi-long range fights and alot of range spam. Ever wonder why most of the favorite maps in Halo 3 are maps with alot of things blocking your view of the entire map (Avalanche, Valhalla, Citadel, Heretic, The Pit, etc)? Halo 2 was similar, but the larger maps did that on a more subtle scale which is why they were great maps.

Then again, your comment on the automag being useless becuase it doesn't do enough damage is moot. A sniper-counter shouldn't kill the sniper, just pressure him into cover. The BR does this, and so does the Pistol. The problem lies in the fact that they can kill the sniper before he gets to cover. That transfers over to weapon that can't keep up with the BR's range. The BR can kill almost every other gun before it gets to it, and therefore it is very overpowered. The gun should have a weakness of a slightly longer kill time in favor of range. Especially with its current clip size.


you made some good points but I think its great that BR can kill someone before it gets to power weapons

this makes flag games more involved. The runner cant as easily run away

Getting power weapons on a map will just require the proper team shooting. The BR is a model of that.

I will admit that I am a fan of MLG ( i know a lot hate it and a lot like it) But i value the team shooting. Yes you could team shoot with a weaker weapon and eventually pull the same job off. But the speed of gameplay would change entirley. I like that quick pace. As I like the quick pace that I could SMG someone in CQC.

To adress the automag again. Yes you dont need it to be powerful to check a sniper. But a sniper should feel more pressure and not feel like he can try to no scope you with all 4 bullets before taking cover instead of one or two.

The BR along with acurracy and power give great options vs a sniper. For example on the pit you can try to shoot him your self. Chances are if the persons smart he will take cover. Second option is you coordinate your teamates to try to simultaneously team shoot that person. If the persons teamates arent aware of this then you just effectively took someone out of the power position and pulled off better teamwork for that play. Option 3 is to try to get close to the sniper and pull a close range stunt.

But I like being able to have the 3 options and the speed to do them at. I mean if there is a weapon that can kill in 1-2 hits and has amazing range. Shouldn't i have an option of getting a non powerweapon that can stop the person in 4-6 shots. It seems fair and thats the balance i was refering to. Make the sniper feel presure and work to be effective on you.

I really got better at sniping because I learned how to get better vs people who were BR me. I dont think I would of learned to be as good if everyone was shooting me with ARs and magnums. My snipe skill would have progressed against easy opposition

my point is that the power weapons need to feel that kind of pressure and make people pay if they use them improporly

  • 10.28.2009 1:21 AM PDT

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I'm amused how a Thread that doesn't even belong in this Forum (or in any Forum for that matter), has gotten so big, and not locked yet.

  • 10.28.2009 1:22 AM PDT
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Posted by: xReconAssassinX
I'm amused how a Thread that doesn't even belong in this Forum (or in any Forum for that matter), has gotten so big, and not locked yet.


Probably because its 4 am.

Also BR discussions seem to be allowed in this forum, or maybe it just not as heavily moderated.

Either way youre spamming.

  • 10.28.2009 1:24 AM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Map control combined with team shooting is a concept that many in the community seem to lack.

I use other weapons but I defend the BR because people are overestimating it

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
but honestly getting a four shot just isn't that amazing in Halo and most of the time a BR competition comes down to who got the first hit and/or is closer to cover, not who is better.


Yes and people should pay if they are not in the right position and the other person was smart enough or more aware of the situation to take initiative

Halo to me has always been about map positioning. With a team set up to cover flanks and team shoot.

I dare anyone to tell me what strategy is better and will win you more games. I keep hearing of this suposed strategy that will come up if weapons like the BR will go.

  • 10.28.2009 1:28 AM PDT

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Posted by: iRun Bnet
Probably because its 4 am.

Also BR discussions seem to be allowed in this forum, or maybe it just not as heavily moderated.

Either way youre spamming.

I laughed when you said I was spamming.
You're the one who is spamming, flaming, and being immature, I've seen your posts. Not only that, but you are a hypocrite, seeing as you do all these things, make a Thread in the Forum, and call me a spammer. I'm pretty sure anyone who's mature would agree.

  • 10.28.2009 1:28 AM PDT
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Posted by: xReconAssassinX
Posted by: iRun Bnet
Probably because its 4 am.

Also BR discussions seem to be allowed in this forum, or maybe it just not as heavily moderated.

Either way youre spamming.

I laughed when you said I was spamming.
You're the one who is spamming, flaming, and being immature, I've seen your posts. Not only that, but you are a hypocrite, seeing as you do all these things, make a Thread in the Forum, and call me a spammer. I'm pretty sure anyone who's mature would agree.


stop spamming spammer.

  • 10.28.2009 1:30 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: iRun Bnet
Everyone running around spraying and meleeing eachother does not appeal to me. Ranged headshot capable weapons with decipherable skill gaps that reward a player for playing well is what I enjoy.

I'm talking Halo CE, COMBAT EVOLVED. Melee's in Halo CE are extremely difficult, since there is no lunge and they need to be inches from you to land a hit. Not to mention specific animations hit in certain ways, making it easier to miss. Try it out, it isn't as game breaking as you might think.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
you made some good points but I think its great that BR can kill someone before it gets to power weapons

this makes flag games more involved. The runner cant as easily run away

Getting power weapons on a map will just require the proper team shooting. The BR is a model of that.

I will admit that I am a fan of MLG ( i know a lot hate it and a lot like it) But i value the team shooting. Yes you could team shoot with a weaker weapon and eventually pull the same job off. But the speed of gameplay would change entirley. I like that quick pace. As I like the quick pace that I could SMG someone in CQC.

To adress the automag again. Yes you dont need it to be powerful to check a sniper. But a sniper should feel more pressure and not feel like he can try to no scope you with all 4 bullets before taking cover instead of one or two.

The BR along with acurracy and power give great options vs a sniper. For example on the pit you can try to shoot him your self. Chances are if the persons smart he will take cover. Second option is you coordinate your teamates to try to simultaneously team shoot that person. If the persons teamates arent aware of this then you just effectively took someone out of the power position and pulled off better teamwork for that play. Option 3 is to try to get close to the sniper and pull a close range stunt.

But I like being able to have the 3 options and the speed to do them at. I mean if there is a weapon that can kill in 1-2 hits and has amazing range. Shouldn't i have an option of getting a non powerweapon that can stop the person in 4-6 shots. It seems fair and thats the balance i was refering to. Make the sniper feel presure and work to be effective on you.

I really got better at sniping because I learned how to get better vs people who were BR me. I dont think I would of learned to be as good if everyone was shooting me with ARs and magnums. My snipe skill would have progressed against easy opposition

my point is that the power weapons need to feel that kind of pressure and make people pay if they use them improporly

A 5 shot team kill isn't any more risky than a 4 shot with only 3 team members available. All it means is your coordination will have to be higher, in effect enhancing your favorite quality. And the BR would not lose any of those options listed. a 5-6 shot rifle would be just as effective at scaring your sniper away by yourself, and melee is a non-issue.

There are also many other weapons in the game that can allow you to keep them from gaining access to weapons. The BR isn't the only solution as many people think it is. The PR is my favorite CQC weapon, because it is 3-shot + Melee and they are dead. That or a PP, charge + melee is a kill. On the other hand you have PP + Pistol, or grenade + pistol/melee, etc. That is what Halo is about, those tactical decisions you make based on the weapons available to you. I used to pride myself on being able to kill with any weapon in the Halo arsenal regardless of what my enemy had.

In Halo 2 I could kill snipers with PR, rocket guys with a single SMG, etc. The only guns I really neglected in the game ware the magnum and the PP. That is it. Halo 3 is a bit more diluted so I generally stick to plasma/human with the exception of the Brute Shot. But being able to kill with most anything is something I feel I should know how to do. Unfortunately in both games the BR completely counters those guns almost every time. Unless you have a sniper, shotgun, rocket or another BR, winning against the BR itself is a huge gamble.

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Halo to me has always been about map positioning. With a team set up to cover flanks and team shoot.

I dare anyone to tell me what strategy is better and will win you more games. I keep hearing of this suposed strategy that will come up if weapons like the BR will go.

Yes, if you're playing competitively. I don't play to win, but for the challenge and the experience. The game is a casual, arcade style shooter. It was never even intended to be a competitive game seeing as the MP was a complete accident. That is why I want the competitive scene to understand that Halo's success wasn't necessarily as a competitive shooter originally. That success was a direct result of campaign mechanics. A game based on making it as fun to play as they could. Halo 2 and 3 have strayed far from this mentality. ODST brought it back.

[Edited on 10.28.2009 1:35 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 1:31 AM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: iRun Bnet
Unfortunately in both games the BR completely counters those guns almost every time. Unless you have a sniper, shotgun, rocket or another BR, winning against the BR itself is a huge gamble.


I think i get it now. People want other weapons to be more then what they are. They pick up AR or PR and wish it would be a mid range threat and could stand up to a BR

But its just wanting it to be more then what it is. Those weapons dominate the BR in CQC. The BR dominates them in mid range. I think the true answer is not to get rid of the BR but to add more midrange variety by creating new weapons hopefully something that takes skill to use

Posted by: iRun Bnet
or another BR, winning against the BR itself is a huge gamble.

Thats where skill gap comes in or XBL connections (which factors for every weapon) I don't see a gamble at all. Be a better shot then someone I wouldnt call luck of the gamble

  • 10.28.2009 1:41 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

The spread of the three rounds per shot is the gamble. If it was a single shot gun, I probably wouldn't have so many problems with it. But the fact its "acting" like an accurate gun is what annoys me. The carbine is no different. It spreads all over the place and almost never hits the same spot twice.

And no, I don't want the PR to be a midrange weapon. I want Pr to be able to close the distance and become effective on the BR if the person using the BR isn't careful. Currently if you are any farther than three-and-a-half to four meters from a BR holder, you will die unless you have a power weapon or a BR yourself.

  • 10.28.2009 1:46 AM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
The spread of the three rounds per shot is the gamble. If it was a single shot gun, I probably wouldn't have so many problems with it. But the fact its "acting" like an accurate gun is what annoys me. The carbine is no different. It spreads all over the place and almost never hits the same spot twice.

And no, I don't want the PR to be a midrange weapon. I want Pr to be able to close the distance and become effective on the BR if the person using the BR isn't careful. Currently if you are any farther than three-and-a-half to four meters from a BR holder, you will die unless you have a power weapon or a BR yourself.


Its acurate if you know how to lead your shots but yes a single shot would be fairer.

To help us both they should bring back the CE pistol and the CE PR (minus the freeze effect). The PR sucks unless dual weilded with SMG, Magnum, or in very close quarters

If not the CE pistols 3 shot then a nerfed 4 shot. The headshots would be more skilled and can still kill at a fast enough rate

  • 10.28.2009 1:58 AM PDT

BR = Versatile, fun and requires skill

Do you remember how bad SMG starts were in halo 2? everyone wildly spraying with those bullet hoses till they're close enough to beat you down.

no not again

halo reach will have such poor repetitive gameplay if the BR is taken out period.

My response to people who hate the Br mainly due to the fact they cant aim with the damn thing cos it requires a mild amount of dexterity is that Bungie should taylor the gametypes and maps to have less staring BRs and less BRs on the map.

who wants a sequel/prequel to have less in it?

  • 10.28.2009 2:03 AM PDT

Its a trap!!!

My ultimate game would have BR and CE Pistol (or 4 shot CE pistol) and then people would have 2 great options for mid.

Keep the carbine. We need the covenant equivulant but can be weaker but more accuarte since technically it can kill quicker then the BR. Unless you can live with the in accuary of it. Although the Beam Rifle is a much more sucessful covenant equivulant since it aims more like the Sniper

Maybe bring back the Halo CE PR without the freeze person effect.

Keep the H3 ARs accuracy and bring back the CE ARs clip

[Edited on 10.28.2009 2:13 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 2:11 AM PDT

1.Arkham Asylum, 2.Mass Effect, 3.Halo CE, 4.Mass Effect 2, 5.Halo 2, 6.Splinter Cell Double Agent, 7.Gears of War 2, 8.Medievil, 9.Oblivion, 10.Crash Team Racing

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Its acurate if you know how to lead your shots but yes a single shot would be fairer.

To help us both they should bring back the CE pistol and the CE PR (minus the freeze effect). The PR sucks unless dual weilded with SMG, Magnum, or in very close quarters

If not the CE pistols 3 shot then a nerfed 4 shot. The headshots would be more skilled and can still kill at a fast enough rate


I say the PR should stay dual wieldable but have that freezing effect. It would get some more "tool" ability just like every other dual wield should (PP shuts vehicles and shields, needler pair is devastating) have to make great combos.

But what would Bungie do with BR? Remove it and so only have Carbine as medium range weapon? Eventually Carbine would become the new BR "Remove it cos it's OP". Add the ODST pistol? Carbine and the pistol would have very different uses but you couldn't really say they're equivalent with each other. Making BR single shot has no point when Carbine (and Automag)already is.

I say keep it pretty much the same but make it a rare weapon like Carbine or Sniper. You get less bullets, it isn't on every map and not everyone is using it. People normally spawn with ARs and/or Automags.

  • 10.28.2009 2:19 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

That is another thing. If you look back to Halo CE, the Pistol spawn in 2 places at most, one place usually. Halo 2 and 3 on the other hand have BR's littering the playing field. So everyone gets a BR right off the bat rather than just one or two people per team having the gun. Lowering the number of Br spawns would definitely create more variety in the game but I still feel the gun needs a damage reduction.

And the main reason I want the BR removed specifically for Reach is because that is canon.

[Edited on 10.28.2009 2:24 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 2:23 AM PDT

Its a trap!!!

the prototype exist so canonicaly it can still be in the game. Reach is the planent to do it on it is mankinds major military center. And I am sure by reach the BR prototypes would be almost as good if not the same as the current BRs. There just wasnt as many put into production at the time.

and I always customized slayer in CE for Pistol AR start =)

well there is always gaurdian and blackout that have 1 and 2 brs on the maps default

  • 10.28.2009 2:48 AM PDT

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
So in the end wether BR stays or goes I really value team shooting. This is the most fun i get out of halo team BR from strategical map positions so your team wins the game

I just dont see very much team shooting from full autos. The only teamwork I see out of full autos is a person taking each corner of the room ready for some camping ambush. Utilizing not their map awareness but to rely on that red dot on their radar to tell them when they are close. Or second option everyone charges in the middle for a big AR slaughter fest but that would be the number 1 n00b thing to do

Basically this. The reason I like the battle rifle is because of the faster-paced and teamshot-oriented gameplay it promotes.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
And the main reason I want the BR removed specifically for Reach is because that is canon.

Sorry if I'm mistaken, but I heard that in the Halo novels the very first Covenant kill by the UNSC was by Sgt. Johnson using a battle rifle. Could be wrong...

[Edited on 10.28.2009 3:14 AM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 3:08 AM PDT

Posted by: TN The Colony
Posted by: venix445
Posted by: Wv Hellbilly76
any ideas?

i heard... that its shishkas skull... bungie x-rayed his head and put that in as the oddball, they did so that they can put shishka in every oddball match to keep an eye on us to make sure we dont cheat remember this next time you go into oddball... shishkas watching...


PURE WIN!

Posted by: iRun Bnet
ok well maybe it is overused but thats not its problem and has nothing to do with the BR itself.

There are all kinds of CQC weapons but only 2 mid range weapons, one rarely placed on maps. What do you expect? Of course the BR is going to get used a lot, you dont have any other options in mid range. If there was only 1 CQC weapon it would get overused to.

And the BR is not overpowered. People just stick to mid range because of how flawed CQC is. The melee is way too overpowered and simplistic. Thats a horrible combo to have because it negates any skill gap or dynamic gameplay.

If you want more weapon and gameplay variety dont look at the BR, its fine. You need to add more mid range weapons and fix CQC/melee. That way people will actualy venture into close range and when theyre in mid range theyl have more options than just the BR.


/retarded nerf the BR threads.


i read it and stil disagree the BR ruined halo CQC worked almost fine except for the mellee and people would still take the BR in CQC with a mellee headshot no the BR ruined halo get rid of it

  • 10.28.2009 3:11 AM PDT

Posted by: venix445
i read it and stil disagree the BR ruined halo CQC worked almost fine except for the mellee and people would still take the BR in CQC with a mellee headshot no the BR ruined halo get rid of it

It's more a problem with the melee system than with the BR. If melees didn't take all of your shields down in one hit, then the problem wouldn't be as bad. If melees took you down to half shields or something, the BR would probably loose every melee fight to a CQC weapon.

  • 10.28.2009 3:18 AM PDT