- UL7IM4 G33K
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- Senior Legendary Member
"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien
Posted by: Foahda
I'm not sure about that. The melee could've just put the shields on the level where a single BR burst could've killed.
I tried it the other day, it removes your shields.
Posted by: Foahda
I agree that the BR feigns skill. A single shot gun would be much better. The Pistol worked better because of that and the kill speed, which caused mistakes in aim, strafe or placement much more detrimental. The BR's clip is really only 12 bursts, and normally causes it to get 2 or less kills a clip because of it's spread, latency or just poor aim. It's is by no means a long range gun, though. It can't even shoot from Gold 2 to Snipe 2 on Guardian consistently.
You are exaggerating its faults by a long shot. I have been four shot from 1/3 of Valhalla and that is the same distance if not farther than the length of Gaurdian.
Posted by: Foahda
I disagree. The game was a medium paced shooter in Halo CE and to a lesser extent Halo 2. It was nice to not be running around lightning speed like in UT, but still have that sense of combat constantly happening. The BR is by no means a four shot sniper. The sniper dominates the BR at long range easily. The BR's spread causes it to be way to inaccurate to even remotely function like that. 4 shot kills at that range are easily stretched to 5-7 shot kills, if not more depending on how far apart someone is. Maybe in comparison to the close range guns, the BR could be the "sniper", but that is because of limited and general ineffectiveness of the close range guns, not because the BR is some kind of sniper rifle.
The reason the combat was constant was not because of kill speed, but the opposite combined with map design. And the sniper dominates the BR not at long range, but extreme range. The Br can kill effectively at, as I have already said, 1/3 the distance of Valhalla and almost the entire distance of Sandbox (from base to base on the standard map).
Posted by: Foahda
I'm not certain is this signature CQC combat you suggest even could exist in Halo 3. The melee system makes it stupidly easy to battle in close range, and the maps have been bigger and seem more tailored for mid range combat than any previous Halo game. The game shines in it's mid range encounters. I'm not suggesting adding more guns, but taking out the many useless ones, and adding guns that have their own unique purpose. The sandbox has always been designed with too many close range guns, causing most of them to be useless since they function similarly, and are outclassed by the likes of the AR and the shotgun.
The word Halo does not solely consist of Halo 3. Halo CE and Halo 2 were not bogged down by melee spam. Halo CE was pistols, Halo 2 was dual wields and BR. If you look at the halo CE maps and Halo 2 maps, you will notice that every map in Halo 3 is smaller than the original vehicle maps. Coagulation is larger than Valhalla and probably about the size if not larger than Sandtrap. the reason the maps feel bigger in Halo 3 is because the walking speed is slower in Halo 3 than the other two games. This is in turn another reason the BR has become even more dominant in 3 than 2. You might not notice this if all you play is MLG, since MLG playlists actually boost player speed (which I feel helps counter the BR's dominance a bit, but not enough).
Posted by: Foahda
You use the short range guns for the inevitable battles at close range, as well as the fact that they are powerful. The problem with close range guns in this game is that the majority of them are weak and ineffective, not just because of the BR, but because of the AR, the power weapons and the overall map scale. 3 close range guns that are effective is better than 6 or 7 that aren't. The close range guns effective kill distance needs to be greater.
They aren't weak an ineffective. They are quite powerful, actually. The problem is the BR is practically just as powerful and it can ping a player enough times in distance to keep them from ever gaining the upper hand with a CQ weapon. I will agree, however, that the Halo weapon set has been diluted far too much, specifically because of Dual Wielding.
Posted by: Foahda
The multitude of mid range guns is there to provide variety and intergun fighting, that people seem to crave so much. The way to achieve this is to make more guns fit the map scale and game mechanics, rather than make a bunch of weak guns that have a very very limited niche because of limited range or weak stopping power.
It is the BR that is out of place on most maps (and there are tons of them on every map).
Posted by: Foahda
The AR is by no means a utility gun. It is good at moderately close range battles, but lacks the stopping power or utility to be useful anywhere beyond that. Sure, you can shoot in bursts, but it is still stupidly easy to kill someone at a range with rockets, sniper, needler and the rifles. A utility gun should be capable of allowing a player to fight back in any situation, while not giving them a clear cut advantage. The only reason the BR could be argued for not doing this well is because the sniper and rockets have been toned down from previous Halo games, though they still dominate the BR in their ranges. The BR is not the best weapon at killing at any range.
The rockets in Halo 3 are the most difficult of all three games. Specifically because any little shockwave will send them off course (something I personally hate since grenades are so prominent). The AR can kill fairly effectively at mid-range. Perhaps not in comparison to the BR, but it is anything but useless. A utility gun is a tool for many situations, not necessarily the solution. If this were true, then the AR should by default be able to contend at any range with any gun, including the rockets, sniper and shotgun making it, itself a power weapon on that regard. The BR is practically that. Since it can contend with all power weapons and defeat all other weapons, it is in the same category as the Rocket, Sniper and Shotgun.
The BR coupled with your spawn grenades allows you to completely destroy both the Shotgun and the Rocket in the time it takes for them to either close distance or fire a second round. The Rocket can literally only get one round off before a BR can finish them with a grenade+headshot. The Shotgun needs to be point blank, so the same combination is hardly out of the question. The AR on the other hand at least gives you a fighting chance without putting you on equal or even higher ground. And yes, it is the best weapon at killing period. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be so widely used.
Posted by: Foahda
I don't think Halo has ever particularly shined in it's CQC, the mid range fighting has always been an emphasis of the multiplayer, at least as far as I know. I also don't believe the BR is the culprit in making the vast majority of CQC weapons useless, it's the weapons themselves. Even with ARs, people don't use dual wielding guns often because they are simply weak and inefficient. I've always been under the impression the game hasn't been tailored particularly to one type of combat, but it has offered equal amounts of all types of combat, but the combat works best in mid range. Some games offer more close range to mid range battles, like RB6 and some more long range battles, like Ghost Recon, but it's always been to me that Halo offered it all in one, that's why all the maps have areas that allow for close range gameplay, to allow that gameplay to exist along with the other types.
Despite the fact that halo has had a majority of the weapon set be mid-close quarters guns (the Br is mid-long at the least) which is exactly why mid-long range combat is the signature part of Halo. Halo has been around before Rainbow 6, and it defined CQC in an FPS. Most FPS beforehand never let players get closer than the BR's max range, and if they did it was for merely a fraction of a second due to the run speed. The only shooter where this even came close to Halo combat was probably CS or CoD.
Posted by: A7XEric
I see people are complaining about how other weapons are useless at everything except close range. It's not a problem with the weapons themselves, it's a deeper issue that lies within the game's mechanics, no the individual weapons themselves. Read my last post.
"The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2 (which carried over in H3 and ODST). Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-"
Many guns still have that range, but even in Halo CE, their effective range wasn't much different than Halo 3 or 2. The BR and Carbine dominated on their own, more so in Halo 3 than 2, however (probably from map design differences).
[Edited on 10.28.2009 7:47 PM PDT]