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This topic has moved here: Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
  • Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.

I think that this thread helps solve some problems.

Posted by: The BS Police
Posted by: xReconAssassinX
There's actually a lot of Bungie Employees that hate the BR, they admitted that the BR shouldn't have been in Halo 3.
One employee only said that actually. He also said he hated Dual Weilding.

  • 10.28.2009 4:16 PM PDT

Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: x MibZ x
There is no problem with the BR, the BR could be made to have a 7x zoom and a single shot with a 21 round magazine if Bungie wanted to.

The problem is that the entire balance is off. The Assault Rifle, which should be useful from close to medium range is only useful at extreme close range, because of the excessively powerful melee. [Really, we should have a campaign balance and a multiplayer balance. Balancing things for multiplayer made the campaign less fun. For example - the Automag didn't need to be balanced for multiplayer, and as such is much more fun to use than say the Halo 3 magnum. [Which is still good, as my ToD list shows, but people suck with it because of its slow firing rate and yadda yadda yadda]]

It is effective at every range except for long range. It even works at medium long range! OH NOES!!!


So you feel that the rest of the weapons should be balance to work with the BR, instead of the BR being balanced to work with everything else?

Actually they should be made to be balanced with each other.

If weapons are made to be balanced with the BR, then the entire game will be long/medium range.

If the BR is made to be balanced with all the other guns, then the whole game will be CQC.

  • 10.28.2009 4:18 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: x MibZ x
There is no problem with the BR, the BR could be made to have a 7x zoom and a single shot with a 21 round magazine if Bungie wanted to.

The problem is that the entire balance is off. The Assault Rifle, which should be useful from close to medium range is only useful at extreme close range, because of the excessively powerful melee. [Really, we should have a campaign balance and a multiplayer balance. Balancing things for multiplayer made the campaign less fun. For example - the Automag didn't need to be balanced for multiplayer, and as such is much more fun to use than say the Halo 3 magnum. [Which is still good, as my ToD list shows, but people suck with it because of its slow firing rate and yadda yadda yadda]]

It is effective at every range except for long range. It even works at medium long range! OH NOES!!!


So you feel that the rest of the weapons should be balance to work with the BR, instead of the BR being balanced to work with everything else?


actually yes; the BR, Carbine, and Snipers are the Only weapons that actually have a half decent range.

the ARs bullets disappear at 120m and AK-47 has an effective range of 300m

  • 10.28.2009 4:19 PM PDT

"Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
—Avery J. Johnson
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Posted by: TW InKoGnIto
I think that this thread helps solve some problems.

I only see one problem in that, What about Pistols? They should remain as acurate because they are relativly light and can be easily manipulated wiht one hand, many people do in reality.
EDIT: Only reload time increases.

[Edited on 10.28.2009 4:21 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 4:20 PM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: Dustinw1
Posted by: iRun Bnet
Bungie would be fools to change the basic structure of the gameplay.

They already have(H:CE-H2 referance) and they can most certainly do it again without any regrets. If you don't like it, make a game of your own. Also, stop with the rank referances, they degrade you already unnoteworthy argument.
EDIT: Also it is possible to have fun in H3 without the Battle Rifle(yes I said it) and it works. I know, i have made many maps without Battle Rifles and they work just fine, untill the BRNOOBs show up........Also, if you want a weapon that takes skill to kill with, take a Magnum into a Battle Rifle fight. I win at those almost all the time, with a MAGNUM. Look at my kills with the Magnum compaired to my kills with the Battle Rifle. My Gamertag is Dustinw1. Im a leutenant grade 3, with years of Halo under my belt. Im still one of the few people who call Halo: Combat Evolved H:CE, not H1.


Not to make the rank references that you pointed out.. but I couldn't help it with comment you made. I can take a Magnum and kill people at a significantly lower level like leutenants (sorry not meant to be an insult)that are weilding BRs. Alls it means is that some people have terrible aim. Play a higher level person who is skilled with the BR and tell me where the magnum will get you

usually when I magnum someone my level that has a BR I usually need to get a nade or get at least 2 shots into them first. So in other words, only when i get the drop on them. Even then I try to avoid those battles because the BR is better.

Posted by: Dustinw1
Im still one of the few people who call Halo: Combat Evolved H:CE, not H1.



what the? How is that a proud proclomation. I played Halo CE since it came out. You don't get special brownie points for not making abreviations. Thats as dumb as saying...

Im, still one of the only people who calls my state New Jersey not NJ

[Edited on 10.28.2009 4:28 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 4:26 PM PDT

"Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
—Avery J. Johnson
click it you know you want to

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Im, still one of the only people who call my state New Jersey not NJ

I call it NJ while typing, call my home state the way its meant to be in reality. The reference to being one of the few that still call it H:CE or Halo: Combat Evolved was really just me trying to feel al lonly, but now i have been enlightend, i am not alone as i have once thought.

[Edited on 10.28.2009 4:30 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 4:27 PM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: Dustinw1
Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Im, still one of the only people who call my state New Jersey not NJ

I call it NJ while typing, call my home state the way its meant to be in reality.


the point I am making is CE is an abreviation. It makes you no better to type out Cobat Evolved or say it in real life

better example then

I am one of the only people who still call the game Knights of the Old Republic not KOTOR

[Edited on 10.28.2009 4:30 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 4:30 PM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: Dustinw1
Posted by: Madara Umezawa
Im, still one of the only people who call my state New Jersey not NJ

I call it NJ while typing, call my home state the way its meant to be in reality. The reference to being one of the few that still call it H:CE or Halo: Combat Evolved was really just me trying to feel al lonly, but now i have been enlightend, i am not alone as i have once thought.


I agree one of the best games ever CE was. The pistol does take more skill then a BR even though it was more powerful

  • 10.28.2009 4:31 PM PDT
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We cant stop here....... This is bat country

i gotta disagree......wayyyyy overpowered...............wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overused and its a dumb weapon and i agree with bungie on this THE BR SUX

  • 10.28.2009 4:31 PM PDT

"Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
—Avery J. Johnson
click it you know you want to

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
I am one of the only people who still call the game Knights of the Old Republic not KOTOR

Same here, and i still play it. Damn game keeps frezzing up on tatooine and i can't find a way to win the jury over on.....damn, i forgot the name of the planet.*sigh*

  • 10.28.2009 4:31 PM PDT

The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2. Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-

  • 10.28.2009 4:36 PM PDT

Its a trap!!!

Posted by: dethsentinel666
i gotta disagree......wayyyyy overpowered...............wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overused and its a dumb weapon and i agree with bungie on this THE BR SUX


Intelligent post as always. Seriously don't waste this forums time with post like that. How about giving us a reason as to why you think that its overpowered. Then perhaps your argument would gain some weight.


Posted by: Dustinw1
Posted by: Madara Umezawa
I am one of the only people who still call the game Knights of the Old Republic not KOTOR

Same here, and i still play it. Damn game keeps frezzing up on tatooine and i can't find a way to win the jury over on.....damn, i forgot the name of the planet.*sigh*


I had a problem with the second game freezing up. You might need an earlier save thats not corrupted.

But back on the BR

if they brought back the CE pistol even as a 4 shot weapon I would use it over the BR any day

  • 10.28.2009 4:37 PM PDT

"Dear Humanity; we regret being alien bastards. We regret coming to Earth. And we most definitely regret that the Corps just blew up our raggedy-ass fleet!"
—Avery J. Johnson
click it you know you want to

Posted by: Madara Umezawa
I had a problem with the second game freezing up. You might need an earlier save thats not corrupted.

But back on the BR

if they brought back the CE pistol even as a 4 shot weapon I would use it over the BR any day

Thanks for the advice, and i would too use the pistol over the Battle rifle any day. As i do today, i call it my sniper.

  • 10.28.2009 4:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: dethsentinel666
i gotta disagree......wayyyyy overpowered...............wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overused and its a dumb weapon and i agree with bungie on this THE BR SUX


Not overpowered, not overused, and Bungie never said they hated the Br.

  • 10.28.2009 5:22 PM PDT

No, I don't want to join your group/clan/team/community.

pffffft look at all these retards bungie should make the br in Reach they7 should also keep the AR because they are both good but....DOWN WITH THE ROCKET LAUNCHER and SPARTAN LAZOR

  • 10.28.2009 5:25 PM PDT

Posted by: damarbiter
im just gonna say that the BR is a good weapon that people underestimate and should be a main part of the halo arsinel

It may be a good weapon nut it's too good. Who are the people who underestimate it? Everyone uses it.

  • 10.28.2009 5:42 PM PDT

Posted by: ZeroDefiance
Posted by: dethsentinel666
i gotta disagree......wayyyyy overpowered...............wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overused and its a dumb weapon and i agree with bungie on this THE BR SUX


Not overpowered, not overused, and Bungie never said they hated the Br.

Not overused? pretty much everybodie's most used weapon is the Br so you're wrong.

I prefer the MA5K

  • 10.28.2009 5:45 PM PDT

Doc: "i'm a pacifist"
Caboose: "your a thing that babies suck on?"
Tucker: "no dude, that's a pedephile"
Church: "tucker, i think he means a pacifier"

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
Posted by: SweetTRIX
Posted by: x MibZ x
There is no problem with the BR, the BR could be made to have a 7x zoom and a single shot with a 21 round magazine if Bungie wanted to.

The problem is that the entire balance is off. The Assault Rifle, which should be useful from close to medium range is only useful at extreme close range, because of the excessively powerful melee. [Really, we should have a campaign balance and a multiplayer balance. Balancing things for multiplayer made the campaign less fun. For example - the Automag didn't need to be balanced for multiplayer, and as such is much more fun to use than say the Halo 3 magnum. [Which is still good, as my ToD list shows, but people suck with it because of its slow firing rate and yadda yadda yadda]]

It is effective at every range except for long range. It even works at medium long range! OH NOES!!!


So you feel that the rest of the weapons should be balance to work with the BR, instead of the BR being balanced to work with everything else?


actually yes; the BR, Carbine, and Snipers are the Only weapons that actually have a half decent range.

the ARs bullets disappear at 120m and AK-47 has an effective range of 300m


What does range have to do with balance? The game isn't supposed to be played at any one range, it's supposed to be played at several, hence the ability to move, and the availability of different weapons. Range has nothing to do with balance, weapons that serve a distinct purpose and are complemented by the other weapons is balance.

The game isn't meant to be played at mid-range any more than it is meant to be played at short range. The issue is that the BR nullifies many of the other options because it is simply too functional. While I agree that all weapons should balance with eachother, the BR is the only one that sticks out as a utility weapon.

So again, does it make sense to change everything, simply because one weapon doesn't fit into the existing set, or does it make more sense to correct the one weapon?

  • 10.28.2009 6:21 PM PDT
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Posted by: SweetTRIX
[/quote]

What does range have to do with balance? The game isn't supposed to be played at any one range, it's supposed to be played at several, hence the ability to move, and the availability of different weapons. Range has nothing to do with balance, weapons that serve a distinct purpose and are complemented by the other weapons is balance.

The game isn't meant to be played at mid-range any more than it is meant to be played at short range. The issue is that the BR nullifies many of the other options because it is simply too functional. While I agree that all weapons should balance with eachother, the BR is the only one that sticks out as a utility weapon.

So again, does it make sense to change everything, simply because one weapon doesn't fit into the existing set, or does it make more sense to correct the one weapon?


well I agree that halo should remain a small scale game but why not make an MA5 that works as a versatile weapon'

Like I said the ARs bullets disappear at 120m most maps are not that big but the Aim assist only works at 15-20m and has a comparatively lower mussel velocity than the Halo CE AR or a real gun, so hitting a moving target to max range is unlikely.

  • 10.28.2009 6:34 PM PDT

I see people are complaining about how other weapons are useless at everything except close range. It's not a problem with the weapons themselves, it's a deeper issue that lies within the game's mechanics, no the individual weapons themselves. Read my last post.

"The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2 (which carried over in H3 and ODST). Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-"

  • 10.28.2009 6:34 PM PDT

Posted by: Skibur
People are too serious about being serious to appreciate the joke.

I love you. There is nothing wrong with the BR. The rest of the game is broken.

  • 10.28.2009 7:00 PM PDT

Looking to hook up with some competent players! Please PM me if you want a decent team mate, looking to learn from good players and impart what I know to the team too. Im sick of going 'randy' and getting betrayed for the sniper etc.. and having to put up with BK team mates

I know plenty of people who don't use the BR because they lack the skill to use it effectively. So they resort to using other weapons, and are generally good at using those weapons effectively. Im so boring I love my BR and sniper and don't really use much else unless I have the necessity for a more CQB type weapon such as the shotgun or mauler.

  • 10.28.2009 7:27 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Foahda
I'm not sure about that. The melee could've just put the shields on the level where a single BR burst could've killed.

I tried it the other day, it removes your shields.

Posted by: Foahda
I agree that the BR feigns skill. A single shot gun would be much better. The Pistol worked better because of that and the kill speed, which caused mistakes in aim, strafe or placement much more detrimental. The BR's clip is really only 12 bursts, and normally causes it to get 2 or less kills a clip because of it's spread, latency or just poor aim. It's is by no means a long range gun, though. It can't even shoot from Gold 2 to Snipe 2 on Guardian consistently.

You are exaggerating its faults by a long shot. I have been four shot from 1/3 of Valhalla and that is the same distance if not farther than the length of Gaurdian.

Posted by: Foahda
I disagree. The game was a medium paced shooter in Halo CE and to a lesser extent Halo 2. It was nice to not be running around lightning speed like in UT, but still have that sense of combat constantly happening. The BR is by no means a four shot sniper. The sniper dominates the BR at long range easily. The BR's spread causes it to be way to inaccurate to even remotely function like that. 4 shot kills at that range are easily stretched to 5-7 shot kills, if not more depending on how far apart someone is. Maybe in comparison to the close range guns, the BR could be the "sniper", but that is because of limited and general ineffectiveness of the close range guns, not because the BR is some kind of sniper rifle.

The reason the combat was constant was not because of kill speed, but the opposite combined with map design. And the sniper dominates the BR not at long range, but extreme range. The Br can kill effectively at, as I have already said, 1/3 the distance of Valhalla and almost the entire distance of Sandbox (from base to base on the standard map).

Posted by: Foahda
I'm not certain is this signature CQC combat you suggest even could exist in Halo 3. The melee system makes it stupidly easy to battle in close range, and the maps have been bigger and seem more tailored for mid range combat than any previous Halo game. The game shines in it's mid range encounters. I'm not suggesting adding more guns, but taking out the many useless ones, and adding guns that have their own unique purpose. The sandbox has always been designed with too many close range guns, causing most of them to be useless since they function similarly, and are outclassed by the likes of the AR and the shotgun.

The word Halo does not solely consist of Halo 3. Halo CE and Halo 2 were not bogged down by melee spam. Halo CE was pistols, Halo 2 was dual wields and BR. If you look at the halo CE maps and Halo 2 maps, you will notice that every map in Halo 3 is smaller than the original vehicle maps. Coagulation is larger than Valhalla and probably about the size if not larger than Sandtrap. the reason the maps feel bigger in Halo 3 is because the walking speed is slower in Halo 3 than the other two games. This is in turn another reason the BR has become even more dominant in 3 than 2. You might not notice this if all you play is MLG, since MLG playlists actually boost player speed (which I feel helps counter the BR's dominance a bit, but not enough).

Posted by: Foahda
You use the short range guns for the inevitable battles at close range, as well as the fact that they are powerful. The problem with close range guns in this game is that the majority of them are weak and ineffective, not just because of the BR, but because of the AR, the power weapons and the overall map scale. 3 close range guns that are effective is better than 6 or 7 that aren't. The close range guns effective kill distance needs to be greater.

They aren't weak an ineffective. They are quite powerful, actually. The problem is the BR is practically just as powerful and it can ping a player enough times in distance to keep them from ever gaining the upper hand with a CQ weapon. I will agree, however, that the Halo weapon set has been diluted far too much, specifically because of Dual Wielding.

Posted by: Foahda
The multitude of mid range guns is there to provide variety and intergun fighting, that people seem to crave so much. The way to achieve this is to make more guns fit the map scale and game mechanics, rather than make a bunch of weak guns that have a very very limited niche because of limited range or weak stopping power.

It is the BR that is out of place on most maps (and there are tons of them on every map).

Posted by: Foahda
The AR is by no means a utility gun. It is good at moderately close range battles, but lacks the stopping power or utility to be useful anywhere beyond that. Sure, you can shoot in bursts, but it is still stupidly easy to kill someone at a range with rockets, sniper, needler and the rifles. A utility gun should be capable of allowing a player to fight back in any situation, while not giving them a clear cut advantage. The only reason the BR could be argued for not doing this well is because the sniper and rockets have been toned down from previous Halo games, though they still dominate the BR in their ranges. The BR is not the best weapon at killing at any range.

The rockets in Halo 3 are the most difficult of all three games. Specifically because any little shockwave will send them off course (something I personally hate since grenades are so prominent). The AR can kill fairly effectively at mid-range. Perhaps not in comparison to the BR, but it is anything but useless. A utility gun is a tool for many situations, not necessarily the solution. If this were true, then the AR should by default be able to contend at any range with any gun, including the rockets, sniper and shotgun making it, itself a power weapon on that regard. The BR is practically that. Since it can contend with all power weapons and defeat all other weapons, it is in the same category as the Rocket, Sniper and Shotgun.

The BR coupled with your spawn grenades allows you to completely destroy both the Shotgun and the Rocket in the time it takes for them to either close distance or fire a second round. The Rocket can literally only get one round off before a BR can finish them with a grenade+headshot. The Shotgun needs to be point blank, so the same combination is hardly out of the question. The AR on the other hand at least gives you a fighting chance without putting you on equal or even higher ground. And yes, it is the best weapon at killing period. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be so widely used.

Posted by: Foahda
I don't think Halo has ever particularly shined in it's CQC, the mid range fighting has always been an emphasis of the multiplayer, at least as far as I know. I also don't believe the BR is the culprit in making the vast majority of CQC weapons useless, it's the weapons themselves. Even with ARs, people don't use dual wielding guns often because they are simply weak and inefficient. I've always been under the impression the game hasn't been tailored particularly to one type of combat, but it has offered equal amounts of all types of combat, but the combat works best in mid range. Some games offer more close range to mid range battles, like RB6 and some more long range battles, like Ghost Recon, but it's always been to me that Halo offered it all in one, that's why all the maps have areas that allow for close range gameplay, to allow that gameplay to exist along with the other types.

Despite the fact that halo has had a majority of the weapon set be mid-close quarters guns (the Br is mid-long at the least) which is exactly why mid-long range combat is the signature part of Halo. Halo has been around before Rainbow 6, and it defined CQC in an FPS. Most FPS beforehand never let players get closer than the BR's max range, and if they did it was for merely a fraction of a second due to the run speed. The only shooter where this even came close to Halo combat was probably CS or CoD.

Posted by: A7XEric
I see people are complaining about how other weapons are useless at everything except close range. It's not a problem with the weapons themselves, it's a deeper issue that lies within the game's mechanics, no the individual weapons themselves. Read my last post.

"The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2 (which carried over in H3 and ODST). Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-"

Many guns still have that range, but even in Halo CE, their effective range wasn't much different than Halo 3 or 2. The BR and Carbine dominated on their own, more so in Halo 3 than 2, however (probably from map design differences).

[Edited on 10.28.2009 7:47 PM PDT]

  • 10.28.2009 7:38 PM PDT
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Posted by: Longsword049
Here is the problem with the BR.

People spawn with ARs..some one picks up BR and kills them from long range..and then spawn kills them from long range because the AR's cannot fight back.....not at long range at least.

this usely happens on maps like valhalla..big maps need BR spawns small Maps need AR spawns..for instence the Map heritic is a load of fun with AR's..but when it is BR's there efectiveness in CQB is limited.


Fun for you, ARs on heretic is probably my least favourite gametype in halo 3.

  • 10.28.2009 9:45 PM PDT
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Posted by: A7XEric
I see people are complaining about how other weapons are useless at everything except close range. It's not a problem with the weapons themselves, it's a deeper issue that lies within the game's mechanics, no the individual weapons themselves. Read my last post.

"The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2 (which carried over in H3 and ODST). Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-"


Exactly.

Im going to put this in the OP.

  • 10.28.2009 9:47 PM PDT