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  • Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.
Subject: The BR is not overpowered or overused.

Its overpowered because in most situations if you dont have a BR and someone else against you does they will win the fight because your weapon doesnt have the reach.


This is why I dont like MLG. Its solely based on you being good with 1 weapon.

  • 10.28.2009 9:49 PM PDT
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Posted by: Steelspawn18
Its overpowered because in most situations if you dont have a BR and someone else against you does they will win the fight because your weapon doesnt have the reach.


This is why I dont like MLG. Its solely based on you being good with 1 weapon.


uh...ya...thats a flaw with that other weapon being so utterly useless.

  • 10.28.2009 10:04 PM PDT

Its only useless because everyone uses the BR....the AR is very good, might need a bit more damage but overall its not bad. Unless you are up against someone with the BR.

  • 10.28.2009 10:20 PM PDT
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Posted by: Steelspawn18
Its only useless because everyone uses the BR....the AR is very good, might need a bit more damage but overall its not bad. Unless you are up against someone with the BR.


So you want every weapon in the game to be a close range melee dependent weapon?

I think the game fight night might appeal to you more than halo.

  • 10.28.2009 10:22 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

You've definitely got a point. I think one of the reasons that so few weapons are often used, usually giving way to two or three different weapons for most of the game, is because of their lack of range. Who wants to carry around a spiker rifle when you'll get caught out by anyone with a BR when you step out of cover? Take the power down on most CQC weapons (Leaving one or two, for example the SMG more or less as is) and give them extended range.

Halo 3 certainly had the potential for diversity in it's weapons, but most of it was in CQC. I often see most of the weapons in Halo defined in this manner:

Long-Mid:
Long Range (Sniper/Beam, Laser)
Mid-Range (BR/Carbine)
Pistol (Which is far too ineffective to be very useful)

Close:
Close (AR, Spiker, SMG, Plasma Rifle, Needler)
Deadly Close (Shotgun, Mauler, Sword, Gravity Hammer)
Splash weapons (Rocket, Brute Shot)

Of course, that's not all the weapons, but those are the ones you're most likely to run into in a game of matchmaking.

That's 6 mid-long range weapons and 12 close. Yes, many of the close range weapons have subtle differences which would encourage diversity... If there wasn't so much mid-range gameplay that rendered them rather infrequently used. I would love to see an effective and diverse CQC system in Reach, but only if it could coexist with the same in mid range gameplay. Of course, I'm quite sure that Bungie would already have a lot of the major gameplay plan layed out, if they've already finished the geometry of many SP missions. I wouldn't really care if the BR didn't make an appearance in Reach, but if it meant that they would neglect mid-range combat in general, I wouldn't want it.

  • 10.28.2009 10:56 PM PDT
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Posted by: Seggi31
Long-Mid:
Long Range (Sniper/Beam, Laser)
Mid-Range (BR/Carbine)
Pistol (Which is far too ineffective to be very useful)

Close:
Close (AR, Spiker, SMG, Plasma Rifle, Needler)
Deadly Close (Shotgun, Mauler, Sword, Gravity Hammer)
Splash weapons (Rocket, Brute Shot)


there is no such thing as long range in halo

I don't know why but every thing looks farther away on a TV screen, i think it has to do with the fact that a life sized image is on a smaller box.

the pavement on Sand box is a 150 meters from end to end
the AK-47 effective range is 300m
the MA5 fires a 7.62x51mm and would be effective at 600m
however in game play the bullets disappear at 120m

  • 10.28.2009 11:13 PM PDT

I'm hoping that Bungie pulls the range back out for Halo: Reach. I enjoyed that they did that for Halo 3: ODST. It'd definately help with the mid-range superiority. Plus, it'd help logic uncrumple from its painful contorted mess (future weapons that are less accurate than modern weapons).

  • 10.28.2009 11:25 PM PDT
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Posted by: Ev1l D3m0n
Fact: Almost every player has the BR as most used weapon in Halo 3.

So I'd say it's overused.


Did you even read the OP?

  • 10.28.2009 11:51 PM PDT

Posted by: Baph117
This is an incredible step forward to being able to cure Downss sybndonre mn humans bineg.s

Posted by: Czar_CJ_Elm
Posted by: Seggi31
Long-Mid:
Long Range (Sniper/Beam, Laser)
Mid-Range (BR/Carbine)
Pistol (Which is far too ineffective to be very useful)

Close:
Close (AR, Spiker, SMG, Plasma Rifle, Needler)
Deadly Close (Shotgun, Mauler, Sword, Gravity Hammer)
Splash weapons (Rocket, Brute Shot)


there is no such thing as long range in halo

I don't know why but every thing looks farther away on a TV screen, i think it has to do with the fact that a life sized image is on a smaller box.

the pavement on Sand box is a 150 meters from end to end
the AK-47 effective range is 300m
the MA5 fires a 7.62x51mm and would be effective at 600m
however in game play the bullets disappear at 120m


In a fictional game, range is relative to the game world and the rest of the game. So, relative to the rest of the game, the weapons in it and the gameplay, I would say the Sniper rifles are definitely long range weapons.

  • 10.28.2009 11:54 PM PDT

This will be a never ending cycle
the BR is most widely used because it is the most basic common mid ranged weapon in halo. If it is toss you people will still complain about the mid range category. If there was only the carbine you people will complain about it. It not overpowered or overused. The prob is the cqc weapons. There honestly is no need for the AR spiker and shotgun. There are worthless because of the maps we play on. I'm not blaming map sizes but there a factor. Are you gonna use a AR on a big map or the BR? The funny thing is the smg in odst as turned into a mid range weapon. The point is the midrange category needs variety and the only way cqc will be effective is if bungie makes small arena style maps or like cods shipmet. It will make both BR and AR lovers happy because the map causes balance. Making both categorys effective

ps why is using a weapon that is better then your first to get kills bad? What's so bad about my BR vs their 4 ARs? If they grab a more effective weapon they have a fighting chance

  • 10.29.2009 12:05 AM PDT
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I completely agree. Halo 3's weapon set has forced the BR to be the most used weapon. When there are over 15 weapons that have an effective range of 10 feet or less and you have two mid range weapons that work from 15-40 feet of course the mid range weapons will be used a lot. Its not the BR's fault that Bungie wants everyone to charge each other and mash the melee button.

The AR in halo 3 is a joke. If you compare its range to any military Assault rifle made in the last 50 years it utterly fails. Even sub-machine guns like the MP5 have much longer ranges, similar to a BR. When the majority of the weapons in a game are close range it diminishes team work aspects of gameplay, which in turn diminishes the skill gap. Couple this with a simplistic melee system and of course anyone good will opt for the medium range BR.

There are a few ways to restore the balance. One would be to introduce more mid and mid-long range weapons (a brute BR, BR/AR hybrids, etc.). Another way to give balance back would be to increase the range and damage on a lot of the current weapons (like the AR, SMG, etc.).

  • 10.29.2009 12:08 AM PDT
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Posted by: I UnSe3N I
I completely agree. Halo 3's weapon set has forced the BR to be the most used weapon. When there are over 15 weapons that have an effective range of 10 feet or less and you have two mid range weapons that work from 15-40 feet of course the mid range weapons will be used a lot. Its not the BR's fault that Bungie wants everyone to charge each other and mash the melee button.

The AR in halo 3 is a joke. If you compare its range to any military Assault rifle made in the last 50 years it utterly fails. Even sub-machine guns like the MP5 have much longer ranges, similar to a BR. When the majority of the weapons in a game are close range it diminishes team work aspects of gameplay, which in turn diminishes the skill gap. Couple this with a simplistic melee system and of course anyone good will opt for the medium range BR.

There are a few ways to restore the balance. One would be to introduce more mid and mid-long range weapons (a brute BR, BR/AR hybrids, etc.). Another way to give balance back would be to increase the range and damage on a lot of the current weapons (like the AR, SMG, etc.).


I agree. The only problem becomes if you just make a weapon like the AR have more range and power, the whole skill rewarding part of the game will be extinguished. People that arnt so good will be able to use simplistic spray weapons to great success vs more experienced players.

I just fear that the game would become a mush that doesnt reward good gameplat at all.

  • 10.29.2009 12:36 AM PDT

Thomas

no br please its so anoying. if it is in reach please weaken it.

  • 10.29.2009 3:57 AM PDT

Yes it is. Simple as that.

  • 10.29.2009 4:28 AM PDT

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: A7XEric
I see people are complaining about how other weapons are useless at everything except close range. It's not a problem with the weapons themselves, it's a deeper issue that lies within the game's mechanics, no the individual weapons themselves. Read my last post.

"The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2 (which carried over in H3 and ODST). Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-"

Many guns still have that range, but even in Halo CE, their effective range wasn't much different than Halo 3 or 2. The BR and Carbine dominated on their own, more so in Halo 3 than 2, however (probably from map design differences).


I'd have to say you are dead wrong. EVERY weapon has significantly cut range from what they had in Halo 1, including the sniper rifle. You could have base to base sniper fights on blood gulch if you wanted in Halo 1, though in Halo 2's blood gulch you can't. The weapon just won't shoot that far.

But nevermind that example, seriously, boot up a copy of both games, pick any weapon that is both games and see the furthest you can stand from an enemy while still your reticule turns red. You'll notice in Halo 2, 3, and ODST that you have to be MUCH closer to an enemy for your reticule to turn red and be able to shoot accurately.

Again it's not a problem with any weapon in particular, it's a problem with the game's mechanics. It's EVERY weapon. Bungie needs to just extend the range of how far all of weapons can shoot, or rather how far you can be away from an opponent while still keeping your reticule red and being able to shoot accurately. THAT is the problem, NOT the BR.

  • 10.29.2009 10:01 AM PDT

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Posted by: iRun Bnet
ok well maybe it is overused but thats not its problem and has nothing to do with the BR itself.

There are all kinds of CQC weapons but only 2 mid range weapons, one rarely placed on maps. What do you expect? Of course the BR is going to get used a lot, you dont have any other options in mid range. If there was only 1 CQC weapon it would get overused to.

And the BR is not overpowered. People just stick to mid range because of how flawed CQC is. The melee is way too overpowered and simplistic. Thats a horrible combo to have because it negates any skill gap or dynamic gameplay.

If you want more weapon and gameplay variety dont look at the BR, its fine. You need to add more mid range weapons and fix CQC/melee. That way people will actualy venture into close range and when theyre in mid range theyl have more options than just the BR.


/retarded nerf the BR threads.


Posted by: A7XEric

"The BR problem is actually caused by a problem bungie created in ALL weapons during the switch from Halo 1 to Halo 2 (which carried over in H3 and ODST). Play Halo 1. Most weapons have around 40 or 50% more range than they do in all of the Halo sequels. For some reason bungie cut the range from every single weapon in the game, thus making the game more close range, thus making these midrange weapons like the carbine and BR dominate easier because players don't have a weapon that accurately shoots further than at a distance of 5 to 10 feet away -_-"


I completely agree that cqc is flawed. I might disagree with you on how it is flawed. Personally I like the double beatdown system so at least a person isnt completely screwed if the connection isnt amazing. People that believe this awards people with slower reflexes have no understanding of latency whatsoever (funny thing is these are generally people that constantly complain about shots not counting)

Unfortuanetly against host this "amazing" idea is still flawed because host can still sneak a beatdown in much quicker. I think that beatdown damage should only take half of someone's shield. Because as of right now with most weapons you shoot once and then kill them. This to me would put more emphasis on what weapon you have and how better you can aim than just getting lucky with a couple of shots.

I believe that all weapons should be hitscan. In a certain range for each weapon when the reticle is red when you shoot the gun it immediatly hits the person you are aiming at. That way plasma rifles and spikers are weapons of the like could actually be useful. What you could do put more emphasis on the weapons attributes like how a plasma rifle cuts through shields and how a spiker is sort of the medium of an smg and plasma rifle.

Also to make the plasma pistol more useful give it the same tracking abilities of the h2 plasma pistol but only enough battery for three charged shots.

I 100% agree on your point that other weapons need to be made more useful than just nefing the br.

  • 10.29.2009 10:02 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: iRun Bnet
Posted by: Steelspawn18
Its only useless because everyone uses the BR....the AR is very good, might need a bit more damage but overall its not bad. Unless you are up against someone with the BR.


So you want every weapon in the game to be a close range melee dependent weapon?

I think the game fight night might appeal to you more than halo.

Did we forget everything we debated? The BR is overpowered not becuase the other weapons are melee dependent, but because the melee is overpowered due to lunge and homing. These guns work perfectly fine without melee. Just too many people never use them past the first few weeks/month of play and at that point they just spray+melee. After that they pick up the BR and forget any other weapons exist. Probably because the BR does something no other weapon can (that isn't a power weapon). Kill people before they get in melee distance.

That is specifically the problem, since it can do this from mid-close range even where the gun should be its weakest. This is why I feel the weapon needs a power down, because the only possible way to close distance on a BR when you don't have on is literally to not be seen. It would be the same regardless of the power or range of other guns at the moment. Adding in any more mid-range guns would just be the BR with a different skin and firing animation (a problem COD4 has, a bunch of the same gun with different firing mechanics).

  • 10.29.2009 10:07 AM PDT

Sanity is subjective.

Posted by: Wild Smurf 14
The problem is, is that it is overpowered when compared to the other weapons. You can't have the vast majority of the weapons only good at a close range, while the BR dominates at every range. The only other weapon that can compete with a BR is a Carbine, but at least that has some level of balance to it: single shot with not so good accuracy.


Actually I find that the carbine does have very good accuracy.

  • 10.29.2009 10:09 AM PDT
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Posted by: iRun Bnet
Posted by: I UnSe3N I
I completely agree. Halo 3's weapon set has forced the BR to be the most used weapon. When there are over 15 weapons that have an effective range of 10 feet or less and you have two mid range weapons that work from 15-40 feet of course the mid range weapons will be used a lot. Its not the BR's fault that Bungie wants everyone to charge each other and mash the melee button.

The AR in halo 3 is a joke. If you compare its range to any military Assault rifle made in the last 50 years it utterly fails. Even sub-machine guns like the MP5 have much longer ranges, similar to a BR. When the majority of the weapons in a game are close range it diminishes team work aspects of gameplay, which in turn diminishes the skill gap. Couple this with a simplistic melee system and of course anyone good will opt for the medium range BR.

There are a few ways to restore the balance. One would be to introduce more mid and mid-long range weapons (a brute BR, BR/AR hybrids, etc.). Another way to give balance back would be to increase the range and damage on a lot of the current weapons (like the AR, SMG, etc.).


I agree. The only problem becomes if you just make a weapon like the AR have more range and power, the whole skill rewarding part of the game will be extinguished. People that arnt so good will be able to use simplistic spray weapons to great success vs more experienced players.

I just fear that the game would become a mush that doesnt reward good gameplat at all.


As long as the spray weapons are not head shot capable then more skillful weapons like the BR and scoped pistol should be a bit more effective. If Reach does have a scoped spraying weapon like the SMG in ODST as long as the BR is headshot capable and relatively powerful then the skill gap should be fine.

  • 10.29.2009 10:20 AM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: Chaotic Kid27
Actually I find that the carbine does have very good accuracy.

Yet I can 3-4 shot with the Pistol but the Carbine takes well over its kill shot limit to ever down someone. The Carbine is a joke in Halo 3, unlike its beta and Halo 2 counterpart. But even then, the Carbine shouldn't exist.

Besides, most of the people who enjoy using the BR ONLY use this weapon. I beg you to try playing with the other weapons as often as possible, experimenting with their uses. Every short-range gun in Halo has an ability and purpose.

Human Weapons
AR - Fastest at everything, can burst fire for more accuracy.
SMG - Puts down alot of rounds, tears through Covenant vehicle armor (same in Halo 2).
Magnum - a good backup weapon and ideal when used as one gun. Great for head shots.
BR - An overpowered, hit scan pistol. 3 Round burst for pressure and immense clip size. (144 rounds total gives it a killing potential of 12 kills per full ammunition, or 3 kills per clip).

Covenant Weapons
PP - stops vehicles, removes shields, and has quick melee.
PR - removes shields extremely fast, also quick melee.
Needler - Can home, great for OS and ambushes.


Brute Weaponry
Spiker - Digs through both shields and health, can bounce off walls and around corners.
Brute Shot - was originally a good corner pressure gun, but has since become somewhat of a shotgun which also defends well against vehicles.
Carbine - removes shields a bit faster than the BR, but inconsistency in shot makes it lacking in any skill the semi-auto brings.

  • 10.29.2009 10:24 AM PDT

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: iRun Bnet
Posted by: Steelspawn18
Its only useless because everyone uses the BR....the AR is very good, might need a bit more damage but overall its not bad. Unless you are up against someone with the BR.


So you want every weapon in the game to be a close range melee dependent weapon?

I think the game fight night might appeal to you more than halo.

Did we forget everything we debated? The BR is overpowered not becuase the other weapons are melee dependent, but because the melee is overpowered due to lunge and homing. These guns work perfectly fine without melee. Just too many people never use them past the first few weeks/month of play and at that point they just spray+melee. After that they pick up the BR and forget any other weapons exist. Probably because the BR does something no other weapon can (that isn't a power weapon). Kill people before they get in melee distance.

That is specifically the problem, since it can do this from mid-close range even where the gun should be its weakest. This is why I feel the weapon needs a power down, because the only possible way to close distance on a BR when you don't have on is literally to not be seen. It would be the same regardless of the power or range of other guns at the moment. Adding in any more mid-range guns would just be the BR with a different skin and firing animation (a problem COD4 has, a bunch of the same gun with different firing mechanics).

I actually don't find too much of a problem with the melee power in the game. Players need a good way to defend themselves at close range, especially if they run out of ammo (which is bound to happen because bungie has nerfed the ammo acounts of every weapon in the game since Halo 1). The ridiculous tracking and heatseaking lunges are a different story though. I personally say they should keep the current power of melee attacks but ditch the heatseaking lunges.

But anyways, meleeing wouldn't even be an issue in this equation if all of the weapons in the game weren't nerfed in terms of their range like I talked about in my previous posts. Just think about it. If players weren't FORCED to get in a close range encounter (because no close to mid range weapon, other than the BR and Carbine, shoots at a distance farther than 5 feet) these melee situations wouldn't be as common. If the weapons had more range, a lot more kills would be done at a distance, rather than all of them in these close encounter situations.

  • 10.29.2009 10:27 AM PDT

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Posted by: A7XEric
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: iRun Bnet
Posted by: Steelspawn18
Its only useless because everyone uses the BR....the AR is very good, might need a bit more damage but overall its not bad. Unless you are up against someone with the BR.


So you want every weapon in the game to be a close range melee dependent weapon?

I think the game fight night might appeal to you more than halo.

Did we forget everything we debated? The BR is overpowered not becuase the other weapons are melee dependent, but because the melee is overpowered due to lunge and homing. These guns work perfectly fine without melee. Just too many people never use them past the first few weeks/month of play and at that point they just spray+melee. After that they pick up the BR and forget any other weapons exist. Probably because the BR does something no other weapon can (that isn't a power weapon). Kill people before they get in melee distance.

That is specifically the problem, since it can do this from mid-close range even where the gun should be its weakest. This is why I feel the weapon needs a power down, because the only possible way to close distance on a BR when you don't have on is literally to not be seen. It would be the same regardless of the power or range of other guns at the moment. Adding in any more mid-range guns would just be the BR with a different skin and firing animation (a problem COD4 has, a bunch of the same gun with different firing mechanics).

I actually don't find too much of a problem with the melee power in the game. Players need a good way to defend themselves at close range, especially if they run out of ammo (which is bound to happen because bungie has nerfed the ammo acounts of every weapon in the game since Halo 1). The ridiculous tracking and heatseaking lunges are a different story though. I personally say they should keep the current power of melee attacks but ditch the heatseaking lunges.

But anyways, meleeing wouldn't even be an issue in this equation if all of the weapons in the game weren't nerfed in terms of their range like I talked about in my previous posts. Just think about it. If players weren't FORCED to get in a close range encounter (because no close to mid range weapon, other than the BR and Carbine, shoots at a distance farther than 5 feet) these melee situations wouldn't be as common. If the weapons had more range, a lot more kills would be done at a distance, rather than all of them in these close encounter situations.


I still believe that the melee is too strong. I mean it quite literally is equal to hitting someone with a sniper rifle but ten times easier.

  • 10.29.2009 10:30 AM PDT