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This topic has moved here: Subject: The BR is Overused not Overpowered, and I have a solution.
  • Subject: The BR is Overused not Overpowered, and I have a solution.
Subject: The BR is Overused not Overpowered, and I have a solution.
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.


Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: space heilcoppte
Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
Or just accept that halo has always been the same and has always been very popular because of it. Completely changing the balance of the game because some people that suck at the game are butthurt makes no sense.

Theres no way I would play this game if it wasnt centered on a ranged headshot capable weapon that encourages teamwork and strafing gameplay with a skill gap.

Spray melee=me playing COD.[/quote]
The most ignorant comment ever and I am really tired of seeing it. It is funny how having your gamertag unlinked can pull out all the morons to start talking crap about how people suck with the BR so they don't want it. I played a game of SWAT last night on Halo 2. I had 20 kills, no one else on my team had over 8. I play Halo 3 and many a time my tool of destruction is the BR. Does this mean I have to like the weapon? Hell -blam!- no.

And your "skill" gap is a joke, since the BR is entirely based on who's lucky enough to have latency grant them with the blessing of having all three shots from all four bursts land. Most BR battles don't come down to who is better, but who has better luck with the BR's nasty spread. Halo 3's slower walking speed already makes the BR a cinch to aim with.

The gun isn't all that "skillful" since it is a crutch for people who don't understand that Halo is not about aiming only. It is good at most everything, so you people won't put it down for anything else. Why? Because the gun has a simple function for you to grasp: Shoot at that guy. Sure, some of you mix it up with grenades and melee, but honestly the BR does nothing more than what shooters have been doing for ages. Strafing and headshots. Any moron who has played an FPS for more than 3 months can understand this concept and probably perform it fairly well. You are fooling yourselves if you think something most FPS players can do in their sleep should be the determining factor of the game.


its skill gap might be small, but its all relative. In comparison to the other guns in this game its skill gap is as big as the grand canyon.

People dont put it down because they have no other options. Its either PWs or CQC spray weapons. Why would you ever want to pick up a weapon that will inevitably place you in random melee battles? Anyone with half a brain will try to stay as far away from H3 melee as possible and hte BR does this.

I loved HCE, why? Because it was fun to get into mid range pistol battles but it was also fun to get into close range plasma rifel melee battles.Because melee actually had a skill gap and was fun and took thought.

I find it hilarious that everyone blames the BR for H3's "variety" problems when in reality the BR is the only gameplay element besides the PWs that provide any kind of dynamic gameplay. Sorry but spray spray auto lock melee is not fun or "variety".

i have had a game when almost no one was using the BR i it was one of the funnest games i had if it was't for a person taking the rocket and the sniper and trying to sporen kill us


Good for you, judging by your literary skills youd be entertained by a flashlight to though.

Just to ask, do like flaming everyone you see?


I dont flame everyone. Did I flame that geek guy?No, because he actually presents points that are well presented and not personally bias. You should try that.

  • 11.01.2009 12:13 PM PDT

Posted by: Meteor78
Posted by: ODST restriction
Good for you, judging by your literary skills youd be entertained by a flashlight to though.

Just to ask, do like flaming everyone you see?

Go look at the Halo 3 forum.

  • 11.01.2009 12:13 PM PDT

Posted by: ODST restriction


I dont flame everyone. Did I flame that geek guy?No, because he actually presents points that are well presented and not personally bias. You should try that.

And you're not?

  • 11.01.2009 12:14 PM PDT

There is also the issue of the BR's random spread.

  • 11.01.2009 12:16 PM PDT

Posted by: urk
Eat raw meat.
Punch a bear in the face.


If you don't know who I am, the feeling is mutual.

Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: space heilcoppte
Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
Or just accept that halo has always been the same and has always been very popular because of it. Completely changing the balance of the game because some people that suck at the game are butthurt makes no sense.

Theres no way I would play this game if it wasnt centered on a ranged headshot capable weapon that encourages teamwork and strafing gameplay with a skill gap.

Spray melee=me playing COD.

The most ignorant comment ever and I am really tired of seeing it. It is funny how having your gamertag unlinked can pull out all the morons to start talking crap about how people suck with the BR so they don't want it. I played a game of SWAT last night on Halo 2. I had 20 kills, no one else on my team had over 8. I play Halo 3 and many a time my tool of destruction is the BR. Does this mean I have to like the weapon? Hell -blam!- no.

And your "skill" gap is a joke, since the BR is entirely based on who's lucky enough to have latency grant them with the blessing of having all three shots from all four bursts land. Most BR battles don't come down to who is better, but who has better luck with the BR's nasty spread. Halo 3's slower walking speed already makes the BR a cinch to aim with.

The gun isn't all that "skillful" since it is a crutch for people who don't understand that Halo is not about aiming only. It is good at most everything, so you people won't put it down for anything else. Why? Because the gun has a simple function for you to grasp: Shoot at that guy. Sure, some of you mix it up with grenades and melee, but honestly the BR does nothing more than what shooters have been doing for ages. Strafing and headshots. Any moron who has played an FPS for more than 3 months can understand this concept and probably perform it fairly well. You are fooling yourselves if you think something most FPS players can do in their sleep should be the determining factor of the game.


its skill gap might be small, but its all relative. In comparison to the other guns in this game its skill gap is as big as the grand canyon.

People dont put it down because they have no other options. Its either PWs or CQC spray weapons. Why would you ever want to pick up a weapon that will inevitably place you in random melee battles? Anyone with half a brain will try to stay as far away from H3 melee as possible and hte BR does this.

I loved HCE, why? Because it was fun to get into mid range pistol battles but it was also fun to get into close range plasma rifel melee battles.Because melee actually had a skill gap and was fun and took thought.

I find it hilarious that everyone blames the BR for H3's "variety" problems when in reality the BR is the only gameplay element besides the PWs that provide any kind of dynamic gameplay. Sorry but spray spray auto lock melee is not fun or "variety".

i have had a game when almost no one was using the BR i it was one of the funnest games i had if it was't for a person taking the rocket and the sniper and trying to sporen kill us


Good for you, judging by your literary skills youd be entertained by a flashlight to though.
Okay, maybe Halo 3 was bad when it came to close-range combat. That doesn't mean that to make up for it all those weapons should be useless compared to one uber weapon (The BR). Mid-range combat was nothing but "Headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot, win!" Unless you miss, whoever fires first wins. I have more fun in games without the BR because the BR is always the center point of a game. Battle Rifle = Win. Games become expectable when you know exactly what gun will win. Some weapons miss, or aren't powerful enough in that instance, or don't have the range, but the BR doesn't have those problems. It fires quickly, powerfully, and accurately. There's no point to having another weapon and that shouldn't be the case.

I'd be a lot happier if there was more than one weapon that'd give me great success in this game. Skill should mean that you can win a fight with any weapon, not that you can strafe and score headshots with the BR at the same time (Which 85% of us can do just fine, even if some are better than others).

[Edited on 11.01.2009 12:17 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 12:16 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: ODST restriction


I dont flame everyone. Did I flame that geek guy?No, because he actually presents points that are well presented and not personally bias. You should try that.

And you're not?


No, im using gameplay points from all 3 games to try and discuss possible balance for reach. What im not doing(and what ever thread here seems to do)is picking out the parts of halo 3 that I suck at and demand bungie to change it for reach.

Just because you cant aim a BR so you charge everyone with your AR and get killed constantly by the BR does not mean the BR should shoot slower or do less damage etc.

  • 11.01.2009 12:20 PM PDT

___.............._______/```````````````:::--.
|.==,-.~;. ____:._______ __’__’__’_ _ _\===
|................--:---:--:--‘---:,, ,,, ,,, ,,,:---: /=
`-.,.__._._,,...---:::"

Here's my fix: lower the amount of Battle Rifles on each map to one or two, like it was in Halo 2

That wont help much, they must do a more long ranch shotgun, like the one from halo:ce

[Edited on 11.01.2009 12:29 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 12:20 PM PDT

Posted by: ODST restriction
What im not doing(and what ever thread here seems to do)is picking out the parts of halo 3 that I suck at and demand bungie to change it for reach.

Self-explanitory.

Posted by: ODST restriction
Just because you cant aim a BR so you charge everyone with your AR and get killed constantly by the BR does not mean the BR should shoot slower or do less damage etc.

I don't suck at it, ODST Ignorance.

  • 11.01.2009 12:22 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.


Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: space heilcoppte
Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
Or just accept that halo has always been the same and has always been very popular because of it. Completely changing the balance of the game because some people that suck at the game are butthurt makes no sense.

Theres no way I would play this game if it wasnt centered on a ranged headshot capable weapon that encourages teamwork and strafing gameplay with a skill gap.

Spray melee=me playing COD.[/quote]
The most ignorant comment ever and I am really tired of seeing it. It is funny how having your gamertag unlinked can pull out all the morons to start talking crap about how people suck with the BR so they don't want it. I played a game of SWAT last night on Halo 2. I had 20 kills, no one else on my team had over 8. I play Halo 3 and many a time my tool of destruction is the BR. Does this mean I have to like the weapon? Hell -blam!- no.

And your "skill" gap is a joke, since the BR is entirely based on who's lucky enough to have latency grant them with the blessing of having all three shots from all four bursts land. Most BR battles don't come down to who is better, but who has better luck with the BR's nasty spread. Halo 3's slower walking speed already makes the BR a cinch to aim with.

The gun isn't all that "skillful" since it is a crutch for people who don't understand that Halo is not about aiming only. It is good at most everything, so you people won't put it down for anything else. Why? Because the gun has a simple function for you to grasp: Shoot at that guy. Sure, some of you mix it up with grenades and melee, but honestly the BR does nothing more than what shooters have been doing for ages. Strafing and headshots. Any moron who has played an FPS for more than 3 months can understand this concept and probably perform it fairly well. You are fooling yourselves if you think something most FPS players can do in their sleep should be the determining factor of the game.


its skill gap might be small, but its all relative. In comparison to the other guns in this game its skill gap is as big as the grand canyon.

People dont put it down because they have no other options. Its either PWs or CQC spray weapons. Why would you ever want to pick up a weapon that will inevitably place you in random melee battles? Anyone with half a brain will try to stay as far away from H3 melee as possible and hte BR does this.

I loved HCE, why? Because it was fun to get into mid range pistol battles but it was also fun to get into close range plasma rifel melee battles.Because melee actually had a skill gap and was fun and took thought.

I find it hilarious that everyone blames the BR for H3's "variety" problems when in reality the BR is the only gameplay element besides the PWs that provide any kind of dynamic gameplay. Sorry but spray spray auto lock melee is not fun or "variety".

i have had a game when almost no one was using the BR i it was one of the funnest games i had if it was't for a person taking the rocket and the sniper and trying to sporen kill us


Good for you, judging by your literary skills youd be entertained by a flashlight to though.
Okay, maybe Halo 3 was bad when it came to close-range combat. That doesn't mean that to make up for it all those weapons should be useless compared to one uber weapon (The BR). Mid-range combat was nothing but "Headshot, headshot, headshot, headshot, win!" Unless you miss, whoever fires first wins. I have more fun in games without the BR because the BR is always the center point of a game. Battle Rifle = Win. Games become expectable when you know exactly what gun will win. Some weapons miss, or aren't powerful enough in that instance, or don't have the range, but the BR doesn't have those problems. It fires quickly, powerfully, and accurately. There's no point to having another weapon and that shouldn't be the case.

I'd be a lot happier if there was more than one weapon that'd give me great success in this game. Skill should mean that you can win a fight with any weapon, not that you can strafe and score headshots with the BR at the same time (Which 85% of us can do just fine, even if some are better than others).


ok...

You guys are all making the same point. What else are people supposed to do? In halo 3 its either BR or nothing. Thats an issue with that nothing not the BR.

When your options are BR or CQC randomness anyone with half a brain will choose BR. Fix CQC randomness and people will have more options, and gametypes like ARs on heretic wont be seen as unplayable by half the community.

  • 11.01.2009 12:24 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: Plasma3150
Posted by: ODST restriction
What im not doing(and what ever thread here seems to do)is picking out the parts of halo 3 that I suck at and demand bungie to change it for reach.

Self-explanitory.

Posted by: ODST restriction
Just because you cant aim a BR so you charge everyone with your AR and get killed constantly by the BR does not mean the BR should shoot slower or do less damage etc.

I don't suck at it, ODST Ignorance.


right....

If you dont like to see me flaming you should stop making flamebait posts.

  • 11.01.2009 12:26 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: ODST restriction
I dont flame everyone. Did I flame that geek guy?No, because he actually presents points that are well presented and not personally bias. You should try that.

You basically flamed anyone in here with an apposing viewpoint by saying anyone in here who doesn't want the BR just sucks with it. So yes, you do flame everyone.

Posted by: ODST restriction
its skill gap might be small, but its all relative. In comparison to the other guns in this game its skill gap is as big as the grand canyon.

Yes, but skill gap isn't the issue here. Experience should win over skill, which is why most people don't understand the functionality of most the other guns. Such as the AR's burst fire feature which increases its accuracy and therefore its kill speed at range. The thing can do quite a bit a damage at mid range, of course that is nothing in the face of the BR.

Posted by: ODST restriction
People dont put it down because they have no other options. Its either PWs or CQC spray weapons. Why would you ever want to pick up a weapon that will inevitably place you in random melee battles? Anyone with half a brain will try to stay as far away from H3 melee as possible and hte BR does this.

Exactly my point. A game should not force you to a specific gun, ever. The prevelance, power, and utility of the BR makes it the best gun in the game in a BAD way. It has become a requirement to play on the same level as others. This is a problem.

Posted by: ODST restriction
I loved HCE, why? Because it was fun to get into mid range pistol battles but it was also fun to get into close range plasma rifel melee battles.Because melee actually had a skill gap and was fun and took thought.

Agreed... And by the way, don't dis others literary skills when you lack the patience to spell check. I've never seen "rifels" before in Halo.

Posted by: ODST restriction
I find it hilarious that everyone blames the BR for H3's "variety" problems when in reality the BR is the only gameplay element besides the PWs that provide any kind of dynamic gameplay. Sorry but spray spray auto lock melee is not fun or "variety".

The BR IS a power weapon. The gun destroys the variety of the game by always being the bets option for every situation regardless. ODST and Halo CE both prove this fact. Sure, some of the other weapons are underpowered but they are still capable of killing. The only gun that I feel needs any real form of power boost is the PP. The PR only needs an accuracy fix.

And judging from your last line... you drop CQC weapons on the spot, don't you?

[Edited on 11.01.2009 12:32 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 12:29 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
I dont flame everyone. Did I flame that geek guy?No, because he actually presents points that are well presented and not personally bias. You should try that.

You basically flamed anyone in here with an apposing viewpoint by saying anyone in here who doesn't want the BR just sucks with it. So yes, you do flame everyone.



No , you took my first post out of context.

  • 11.01.2009 12:34 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Did I? Maybe your first... but what about this one?

Posted by: ODST restriction
No, im using gameplay points from all 3 games to try and discuss possible balance for reach. What im not doing(and what ever thread here seems to do)is picking out the parts of halo 3 that I suck at and demand bungie to change it for reach.

Just because you cant aim a BR so you charge everyone with your AR and get killed constantly by the BR does not mean the BR should shoot slower or do less damage etc.

Then lets take it your way.

I'm asking game elements to be changed to challenge my FPS skill by forcing me to adapt to new situations. The only reason any of these MLG wannabes want the BR in the game is so they can continue doing the same thing over and over again and not have to learn anything new. They just cannot be bothered with change, its just too "skill mitigating".

  • 11.01.2009 12:35 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.


Posted by: ODST restriction
its skill gap might be small, but its all relative. In comparison to the other guns in this game its skill gap is as big as the grand canyon.[/quote]
Yes, but skill gap isn't the issue here. Experience should win over skill, which is why most people don't understand the functionality of most the other guns. Such as the AR's burst fire feature which increases its accuracy and therefore its kill speed at range. The thing can do quite a bit a damage at mid range, of course that is nothing in the face of the BR.



That doesnt even make sense. Natural ability should always trump all. See this is where personal bias enters again. "I have lots of experience with the game so that is what should make people really good".

This is also another common false "logic" that I see. "People that are good with the BR are not good with other weapons." Nothing could be further from the truth. Theres a reason that the people that are the best at the normal plalyists are the same people that get 50s in playlists like living dead.

  • 11.01.2009 12:38 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: ODST restriction
People dont put it down because they have no other options. Its either PWs or CQC spray weapons. Why would you ever want to pick up a weapon that will inevitably place you in random melee battles? Anyone with half a brain will try to stay as far away from H3 melee as possible and hte BR does this.[/quote]
Exactly my point. A game should not force you to a specific gun, ever. The prevelance, power, and utility of the BR makes it the best gun in the game in a BAD way. It has become a requirement to play on the same level as others. This is a problem.



Anyway you want to nerf the BR, people will still flock to mid range if the melee is as random as it is. You can shrink that mid range skill gap as much as you want, it will still be larger than the one CQC presents.

All your "fixes" would not change gameplay balance at all. When the entire system is flawed you cant just change one aspect and think its fixed.

  • 11.01.2009 12:41 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: ODST restriction
I loved HCE, why? Because it was fun to get into mid range pistol battles but it was also fun to get into close range plasma rifel melee battles.Because melee actually had a skill gap and was fun and took thought.[/quote]
Agreed... And by the way, don't dis others literary skills when you lack the patience to spell check. I've never seen "rifels" before in Halo.

Posted by: ODST restriction
I find it hilarious that everyone blames the BR for H3's "variety" problems when in reality the BR is the only gameplay element besides the PWs that provide any kind of dynamic gameplay. Sorry but spray spray auto lock melee is not fun or "variety".

The BR IS a power weapon. The gun destroys the variety of the game by always being the bets option for every situation regardless. ODST and Halo CE both prove this fact. Sure, some of the other weapons are underpowered but they are still capable of killing. The only gun that I feel needs any real form of power boost is the PP. The PR only needs an accuracy fix.

And judging from your last line... you drop CQC weapons on the spot, don't you?


Obvious typos are different than just flat out not being able to even understand the post.

The BR is only a PW because of the futility of the other weapons.

I honestly will never understand how bungie thought having almost every gun in the game being melee dependent could possibly work out. If all you have is a weapon that practically needs a melee to get a kill, how are you superposed to take down any kind of ranged weapon? That is not an issue in any way with that ranged weapon. Also how does HCE prove any of your points?

Why would I not drop CQC weapons? There is no skill gap to exploit there. Im confident that im better at mid range why would I ever go somewhere where its just random?

And please just put all your posts at the bottom, I can follow whats going on and its too hard to respond with everything inside or everything.

[Edited on 11.01.2009 12:48 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 12:47 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: ODST restriction
That doesnt even make sense. Natural ability should always trump all. See this is where personal bias enters again. "I have lots of experience with the game so that is what should make people really good".

Is that natural ability limited to aim? Because right now all the BR does is test your aim skill. Thats it. One ability. Maybe a grenade or a melee, but nothing too interesting. At least weapons like the Shotgun, laser, rocket, sniper, needler, sword, etc all have pros and cons to them that enhance their role. The BR has little to no cons other than the shotgun being able to kill it. Thats it. All it does is reward the player and not take anything away.

Posted by: ODST restriction
This is also another common false "logic" that I see. "People that are good with the BR are not good with other weapons." Nothing could be further from the truth. Theres a reason that the people that are the best at the normal plalyists are the same people that get 50s in playlists like living dead.

True, but that isn't what I was saying. What I said is they are ignorant of the intricacies of those weapons. Such as how to burst fire the AR, or 3 shot + melee with the PR. Or perhaps actually land a noob combo in Halo 3 like I have learned to do quite well. Or maybe how SMG's tear apart vehicles... oh wait. BR users hate vehicles.

But enough with the generalizations. Honestly even you admit the reason you use the BR is because it works right? But, then again, it just works better than every other weapon so why not? The gun is even handed to us every five feet on every map so its obviously not a problem to rely on such a foolproof gun that takes the brainpower of a hummingbird to understand.

  • 11.01.2009 12:47 PM PDT

Here’s what Luke had to say about the differences in treatment between the Spartans and Elites in Reach:

“Instead of piece-by-piece customization like the Spartans, Elite customization is a full model swap with models selected from the various Elite classes appearing throughout the Campaign. There are all kinds of reasons for this, not the least of which is our continued emphasis on the Spartan as your identity in Reach.”

Posted by: ODST restriction
The BR is only a PW because of the futility of the other weapons.

  • 11.01.2009 12:48 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Did I? Maybe your first... but what about this one?

Posted by: ODST restriction
No, im using gameplay points from all 3 games to try and discuss possible balance for reach. What im not doing(and what ever thread here seems to do)is picking out the parts of halo 3 that I suck at and demand bungie to change it for reach.

Just because you cant aim a BR so you charge everyone with your AR and get killed constantly by the BR does not mean the BR should shoot slower or do less damage etc.

Then lets take it your way.

I'm asking game elements to be changed to challenge my FPS skill by forcing me to adapt to new situations. The only reason any of these MLG wannabes want the BR in the game is so they can continue doing the same thing over and over again and not have to learn anything new. They just cannot be bothered with change, its just too "skill mitigating".


No MLG just wants consistent results. It is a competition, they want the best team to win as often as possible. Everything they do is about consistency, im sure if bungie gave them all kinds of balanced non random game elements they would be included in MLG setting. Unfortunately most of bungie's default settings produce random inconsistent results and MLG was forced to remove them.

Im pretty sure MLG settings for HCE were unchanged from default except for the spawn weapon.

  • 11.01.2009 12:52 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: C05ta WiNs93
I'd like everyone to go back and look at the opening post. Seriously, I leave for 30 minutes and I have no idea what my own thread is talking about.


I agree with you, but even if your points became reality people would just complain that all of those weapons are overpowered. The real issue is CQC but theyl just whine about the mid range weapons.

  • 11.01.2009 12:55 PM PDT