Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: The BR is Overused not Overpowered, and I have a solution.
  • Subject: The BR is Overused not Overpowered, and I have a solution.
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.


Posted by: ODST restriction
This is also another common false "logic" that I see. "People that are good with the BR are not good with other weapons." Nothing could be further from the truth. Theres a reason that the people that are the best at the normal plalyists are the same people that get 50s in playlists like living dead.[/quote]
True, but that isn't what I was saying. What I said is they are ignorant of the intricacies of those weapons. Such as how to burst fire the AR, or 3 shot + melee with the PR. Or perhaps actually land a noob combo in Halo 3 like I have learned to do quite well. Or maybe how SMG's tear apart vehicles... oh wait. BR users hate vehicles.

But enough with the generalizations. Honestly even you admit the reason you use the BR is because it works right? But, then again, it just works better than every other weapon so why not? The gun is even handed to us every five feet on every map so its obviously not a problem to rely on such a foolproof gun that takes the brainpower of a hummingbird to understand.


Please, using faulty generalizations only makes you look bias.

I use it because it is not random. Or its less random compared to the other ones.

Agian, im given no choice because I feel completely disenfranchised when using other weapons in this game. They are completely random and randomness to me defeats the entire point of interactive entertainment.

  • 11.01.2009 1:00 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: ODST restriction
Anyway you want to nerf the BR, people will still flock to mid range if the melee is as random as it is. You can shrink that mid range skill gap as much as you want, it will still be larger than the one CQC presents.

All your "fixes" would not change gameplay balance at all. When the entire system is flawed you cant just change one aspect and think its fixed.

Only a BR user would say that short range is nothing but melee spam. "There are ways to win this. Hidden all around you, " as Saw would say. Just because everyone and their mother charges and melee's doesn't make it the best option, just the most obvious one. There are even ways to make melee battles interesting. Specifically with the control set of Boxer.

And if the entire system is flawed, why play the game? If this is true than even the BR is devoid of perfection and is a broken gun, so I guess the game just isn't worth playing.

Posted by: ODST restriction
Obvious typos are different than just flat out not being able to even understand the post.

You do it constantly though. You cannot even get proper punctuation. I personally understood his post fine.

Posted by: ODST restriction
The BR is only a PW because of the futility of the other weapons.

This is a misconception. I will agree the weapons are bit too underpowered, but they are anything but futile. These weapons may need a bit of help but the BR in Halo 3 still needs to be toned down in some aspect. Most obviously map prevalence and clip size.

Posted by: ODST restriction
I honestly will never understand how bungie thought having almost every gun in the game being melee dependent could possibly work out. If all you have is a weapon that practically needs a melee to get a kill, how are you superposed to take down any kind of ranged weapon? That is not an issue in any way with that ranged weapon. Also how does HCE prove any of your points?

Every gun is not melee dependant. Most of the plasma weapons are, but all the others are perfectly capabale of killing on their own. Another ignorant satement at the hands of someone who never even tries to use these guns beyond spawn. These weapons can take down ranged guns through tactical use. AKA - teamwork, distraction, baiting, grenades, etc.

Posted by: ODST restriction
Why would I not drop CQC weapons? There is no skill gap to exploit there. Im confident that im better at mid range why would I ever go somewhere where its just random?

So you can actually say you have tried to use them and then give credibility to your statement that they are useless. Every statement you make about close combat just proves your ignorance of the weapons used within it.

Posted by: ODST restriction
And please just put all your posts at the bottom, I can follow whats going on and its too hard to respond with everything inside or everything.

Why? At least all my responses to every one of your multiple posts is in the same place.

Posted by: ODST restriction
No MLG just wants consistent results. It is a competition, they want the best team to win as often as possible. Everything they do is about consistency, im sure if bungie gave them all kinds of balanced non random game elements they would be included in MLG setting. Unfortunately most of bungie's default settings produce random inconsistent results and MLG was forced to remove them.

Im pretty sure MLG settings for HCE were unchanged from default except for the spawn weapon.

Did I say anything about MLG? No. I was talking about the MLG wannabes online who have bought into the BR propoganda. It is a skillful weapon, but for years now if you didn't have a BR in your top kills you were considered a moronic melee spammer by all those people. MLG also has no control over Halo itself. They have to deal with whatever the game brings and if there is no BR they are not going to be able to change that.

And its funny you think MLG used default weapon starts, becuase if I recall they used Slayer Pro, which is not default. Default is PP starts. Slayer Pro is AR/Pistol starts. Even so, the Pistol was far more balanced than the BR, which is also realized by MLG which is why they upped player speed to enable more strafing ability. Even MLG can tell the BR is too easy to use by default.

[Edited on 11.01.2009 1:03 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 1:02 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
That doesnt even make sense. Natural ability should always trump all. See this is where personal bias enters again. "I have lots of experience with the game so that is what should make people really good".

Is that natural ability limited to aim? Because right now all the BR does is test your aim skill. Thats it. One ability.



That is ridiculous and borderline, no it is, laughable.

  • 11.01.2009 1:03 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
That doesnt even make sense. Natural ability should always trump all. See this is where personal bias enters again. "I have lots of experience with the game so that is what should make people really good".

Is that natural ability limited to aim? Because right now all the BR does is test your aim skill. Thats it. One ability.


That is ridiculous and borderline, no it is, laughable.

Why?

[Edited on 11.01.2009 1:04 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 1:04 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: ODST restriction
No MLG just wants consistent results. It is a competition, they want the best team to win as often as possible. Everything they do is about consistency, im sure if bungie gave them all kinds of balanced non random game elements they would be included in MLG setting. Unfortunately most of bungie's default settings produce random inconsistent results and MLG was forced to remove them.

Im pretty sure MLG settings for HCE were unchanged from default except for the spawn weapon.[/quote]
Did I say anything about MLG? No. I was talking about the MLG wannabes online who have bought into the BR propoganda. It is a skillful weapon, but for years now if you didn't have a BR in your top kills you were considered a moronic melee spammer by all those people. MLG also has no control over Halo itself. They have to deal with whatever the game brings and if there is no BR they are not going to be able to change that.

And its funny you think MLG used default weapon starts, becuase if I recall they used Slayer Pro, which is not default. Default is PP starts. Slayer Pro is AR/Pistol starts. Even so, the Pistol was far more balanced than the BR, which is also realized by MLG which is why they upped player speed to enable more strafing ability. Even MLG can tell the BR is too easy to use by default.


From now one, until you put all your points at the bottom I will address one point. If you want responses on the others you know what to do. They are called paragraphs, they work wonderfully.

Your first paragraph just seems like butthurt ranting. Im not even going to go there.

Actually im pretty sure I said this Im pretty sure MLG settings for HCE were unchanged from default except for the spawn weapon.. And again youre trying to argue HCE over H3, which is no argument at all because I agree.HCE is halo MP perfected, H3 is totally messed up in just about every way.

  • 11.01.2009 1:09 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
That doesnt even make sense. Natural ability should always trump all. See this is where personal bias enters again. "I have lots of experience with the game so that is what should make people really good".

Is that natural ability limited to aim? Because right now all the BR does is test your aim skill. Thats it. One ability.


That is ridiculous and borderline, no it is, laughable.

Why?


If you think all that is involved in being good with a BR is aiming, well , then I guess I understand where youre coming from now.

  • 11.01.2009 1:11 PM PDT

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind." - Albert Einstien

The point of my argument is to show the difference, not prove that the Halo CE pistol was better. The BR is a gun that fakes skill, especially in Halo 3. Once you understand the nuances of the weapon you end up just fighting latency and spread. On top of it, a head shot with the gun is laughably easy, specifically because of the three shot burst. This is why I am tired of people saying the BR is a skillful gun when it isn't really much different than any of the other guns in Halo 3.

People don't use it because it has a good skill gap. If that was the case they'd be eying the pistol or carbine. They use it merely because it works. The same justification that these players had to use the button glitches and super jumps in Halo 2.

I do understand that the BR is not necessarily just aiming, but a majority of it is. Leading is barely even a requirement with the gun in Halo 3. ODST proved that a mid-ranged weapon doesn't have to function that way. All a midranged gun needs to do, mechanic wise, is pressure from most ranges. This means descoping snipers and headshots, not full fledged kills. A 5 shot BR would still play into teamwork, since a 4 player team would only need to fire twice on one guy to kill him. It isn't as detrimental to the gun as you think.

Then again, that feigns the skill of the individual a bit more, so the real solution isn't necessarily powering it down only, more like making the gun harder to find and less able to kill the entire team three times over by itself without grabbing ammunition.

[Edited on 11.01.2009 1:18 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 1:14 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
The point of my argument is to show the difference, not prove that the Halo CE pistol was better. The BR is a gun that fakes skill, especially in Halo 3. Once you understand the nuances of the weapon you end up just fighting latency and spread. On top of it, a head shot with the gun is laughably easy, specifically because of the three shot burst. This is why I am tired of people saying the BR is a skillful gun when it isn't really much different than any of the other guns in Halo 3.

People don't use it because it has a good skill gap. If that was the case they'd be eying the pistol or carbine. They use it merely because it works. The same justification that these players had to use the button glitches and super jumps in Halo 2.


Again, the BR is seen as skillful because its only seen in relation to the complete randomness that is the rest of the Halo 3 arsenal. Its no rail gun, but compared to the AR it takes a master gamer to operate.

No they use it because it has a skill gap over OTHER weapons aswell as itself. the pistol is just not effective, the carbine is prettymuch the same as a BR. If youre good with a BR you can kil an AR wielder, exploiting the BRs skill gap. At lower levels people just stick to the AR because for them it is more effective than the BR. If they rush a BR weilder with an AR theyl probably get the kill because the BR is so bad with it.

  • 11.01.2009 1:20 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.


Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
Posted by: UL7IM4 G33K
Posted by: ODST restriction
That doesnt even make sense. Natural ability should always trump all. See this is where personal bias enters again. "I have lots of experience with the game so that is what should make people really good".[/quote]
Is that natural ability limited to aim? Because right now all the BR does is test your aim skill. Thats it. One ability.


That is ridiculous and borderline, no it is, laughable.

Why?


If you think all that is involved in being good with a BR is aiming, well , then I guess I understand where youre coming from now.

so what els dose it take to be good with a BR?


Communication and teamwork skills. Knowledge of player, spawn and overall game flow. Movement skills such as strafing jumping and general map movement. Nade placement.

You can be good with a BR without being good at 1v1 BR battles.

  • 11.01.2009 1:24 PM PDT
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When I spawn under a base with an AR and theres a guy top mid and pink 3 with BRs im like so happy because it gives me a chance to adapt and play for fun.

If you made the BR 5 shots. All you would do is slowdown gameplay as people would just get more time to think and more time to make decisions. Youd also just see people running away all the time.

it decrease the skill gap and overall thought required to play the game because youre not quickly punished by mistakes. people will just run out in the open. What are you going to do? The guy could have a smoke before you get enough shots on him to get the kill.

All that would happen is bungie would make even bigger maps which would make the reach CQC weapons just as futile as H3's.

your fixes fix nothing.

[Edited on 11.01.2009 1:30 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 1:29 PM PDT

hola!

heres an idea.. stop charging with the AR. flank people, work together with your team. goodness me. dont charge up to someone who is holding a BR when equiped ur with the AR, youll just die. watch your corners and WAIT for someone to come in close range.

easy. the AR is better then the BR at close range. use the advantage.

  • 11.01.2009 2:14 PM PDT

Bro its a little thing called switching it to semi-automatic. Now if bungie can finally insist on making the gun that was on the halo 2 testing, then that would make the whole halo world a better place to live on, then the BR-55 would be like a Big Boy version of the AutoMag.

  • 11.01.2009 2:51 PM PDT

Some people never see the light till It shines though bullet holes.

Vote for the most underated weapon

group to talk about halo reach with no spam

I truly could care less if they got rid of the BR. But as long as we had a skillful mid range gun that is effective. Hopefully takes more skill than the current battle rifle and for the love of God hitscan.

  • 11.01.2009 2:57 PM PDT

i like me...

winning an encounter should not come down to who can "Out BR" who....

i recently played a local system link game with a couple of buddies of mine. now granted im a lot better then any of them so I attempted to not use a BR the entire time and tried to use other weapons such as carbine, pistol, brute shot, and others. Let me say, that was the most fun ive had playing halo in a long time!

if i did pick up a BR...its was just too easy to kill them...and got a lot less fun so id put it back down. people like the BR so much because it gives them easy kills with out having to get close. i'd rather use strategy and tactics to out maneuver my enemies to win over relying on a single weapon for easy kills because thats MORE FUN!

[Edited on 11.01.2009 3:57 PM PST]

  • 11.01.2009 3:55 PM PDT