Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Can there be a matchmaking that uses dedicated servers too?
  • Subject: Can there be a matchmaking that uses dedicated servers too?
Subject: Can there be a matchmaking that uses dedicated servers too?

Sorry guys, I didn't know what forum to drop this in so I just put it here.

I definitely didn't have enough characters to work with to get out my entire thought in the title, so let me elaborate :)

Keep in mind this post should not devolve into an argument as to whether or not Halo Reach should support more than 16 players, but is merely a technical proof-of-concept question.

Now I know a game like MAG on PS3, that supports 256 players, can only do so because of the rudimentary graphics engine, lack of physics, and the fact that the games are hosted on Zipper Interactive's dedicated servers, which I'm sure are uber fast.

Also, I know that game's powered by matchmaking like Halo, Gears of War 2, and the upcoming Modern Warfare 2, have a difficult time supporting more than 16 players because the game gets hosted by one of the players, who, chances are, has a crappy residential DSL or Cable Internet connection.

My question is, could a version of matchmaking exist where the server load is shared by both a random host within the game, and a dedicated server at the developer's expense, to allow for more players?

I know Perfect Dark Zero (I know I know, it was godawful) supported something like 50 players, and the console Battlefield games support a decent amount too. Do they do something similar to this?

  • 11.02.2009 10:59 AM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Dedicated servers are expensive and only eliminate host advantage which can also be lessened significantly by appropriate network code which costs nothing to maintain and almost nothing to build.

Let me reiterate: DEDICATED SERVERS WILL NOT MAGICALLY DISPELL THE PHYSICAL PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH ONLINE GAMING

  • 11.02.2009 11:04 AM PDT

Posted by: L3GEND411
and the console Battlefield games support a decent amount too. Do they do something similar to this?

They use EA's servers.

  • 11.02.2009 11:06 AM PDT

Let me reiterate: DEDICATED SERVERS WILL NOT MAGICALLY DISPELL THE PHYSICAL PROBLEMS ASSOCIATED WITH ONLINE GAMING

Sure... maybe not bullet dropping or latency, but player capacity is a "physical problem" associated with matchmaking.

Are you really asserting that dedicated servers can't support more players than player-hosted matchmaking?

Also, you skirted around the question, which was "could the server load be shared between a player host and a dedicated server in a matchmaking environment, to possibly support more players?"

[Edited on 11.02.2009 11:10 AM PST]

  • 11.02.2009 11:08 AM PDT

Wherever you roam
so far from home
you'll be safe from peril
life threatening and terrible
if you avoid David Powel
and keep track of your towel.

Posted by: L3GEND411
Also, you skirted around the question, which was "could the server load be shared between a player host and a dedicated server in a matchmaking environment, to possibly support more players?"


No, the reason for a host (be it a player or server) is to maintain a consistent game world. Clients send input which the host processes and sends back the updated world. Distributing this process defeats the entire purpose of it.

  • 11.02.2009 11:14 AM PDT

To my knowledge, PDZ was still P2P hosting as opposed to Dedicated Servers. I am not sure about that at all, though. Technically, of course it's possible. However, I would imagine Bungie would not take advantage of it for the purpose of increasing the number of players. Bungie had stated in interviews leading up to Halo 3 that they do not like the idea of more than 16 player matches as it is really hard for a player to "be the hero" so to speak of the match if they're on a team with 24 other people. Maybe they'll change their minds, but I find that I agree with them for the most part.

  • 11.02.2009 11:15 AM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

I love how you posted this in the Bunige.net community forum, and it got locked there. And also there was a thread in the Bungie.net community forum explaining how there are little to no mods in this forum, and surely enough, I find this thread here now. :P

I have yet to check other forums, so I don't know if you did the absolutely bad thing and posted it in every forum.

  • 11.02.2009 11:21 AM PDT

My talents include always knowing the wrong thing to say.

Twitter!

How many places did you post this?

  • 11.02.2009 11:22 AM PDT

Posted by: FFMagee
Bungie had stated in interviews leading up to Halo 3 that they do not like the idea of more than 16 player matches as it is really hard for a player to "be the hero" so to speak of the match if they're on a team with 24 other people. Maybe they'll change their minds, but I find that I agree with them for the most part.


Yeah, I hear you. I'm kind of on the fence. On one hand, my favorite aspect of Halo MP is the vehicles and the larger environments, but on the other hand, I really enjoy that you can stand out by pulling off some skillful plays against insurmountable odds, and not just be another bert on the map.

The only other console FPS that I play and am good at is Battlefield 1943. I think its because when I play as the rifleman I feel like the analog sensitivity, and power/performance of the rifleman's single shot 9 round rifle feels a lot like the Halo CE pistol to me, so I just pretend I'm playing 24 player CE (and it always works for me) :)

I think 24 player Halo would be boss, any more would be too much.

  • 11.02.2009 11:24 AM PDT

Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
I love how you posted this in the Bunige.net community forum, and it got locked there. And also there was a thread in the Bungie.net community forum explaining how there are little to no mods in this forum, and surely enough, I find this thread here now. :P

I have yet to check other forums, so I don't know if you did the absolutely bad thing and posted it in every forum.


I only posted it here, because the mod told me to repost it in the Halo 3 forum when he locked it, and I thought Reach would be more appropriate. Why does this concern you so?

[Edited on 11.02.2009 11:27 AM PST]

  • 11.02.2009 11:25 AM PDT

Ugh...

First on a BWU.. yeah, I'm cool.

ODST;MYTHIC Screenshot winner! One of the first to get their hands on the mythic map pack.

It doesn't concern me, I just found it funny.
Posted by: L3GEND411
Posted by: POKEY CLYDE
I love how you posted this in the Bunige.net community forum, and it got locked there. And also there was a thread in the Bungie.net community forum explaining how there are little to no mods in this forum, and surely enough, I find this thread here now. :P

I have yet to check other forums, so I don't know if you did the absolutely bad thing and posted it in every forum.


I only posted it here, because the mod told me to repost it in the Halo 3 forum when he locked it, and I thought Reach would be more appropriate. Why does this concern you so?

  • 11.02.2009 11:35 AM PDT

There are many powers in the world, for good or for evil. Some are greater than I am. Against some I have not yet been measured. But my time is coming.

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I admit that I am acomplete lay person when it comes to the technical side of video games, but I'll chime in. I'm of the belief that 360's, and Xbox Live in its entirety, is designed as a peer to peer gaming network. Do any games use a servers? I'd be surprised.

  • 11.02.2009 2:27 PM PDT

I do not own a ps3, or know that much about the ps network, do they even do peer to peer or dedicated servers? I do know that you do not have to pay for that service, but we have to pay to use live and connect to crappy connections to play halo.

I know bungie worked hard on their network code, or so they claim, but I would like to see dedicated servers for reach during the beta just to see how it goes. If it flops then switch back to peer to peer and re test, that is what a beta is for anyways.

  • 11.02.2009 2:34 PM PDT
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  • Marvelous Bauble

Posted by: Iceberg Halo3
I know bungie worked hard on their network code, or so they claim, but I would like to see dedicated servers for reach during the beta just to see how it goes. If it flops then switch back to peer to peer and re test, that is what a beta is for anyways.


Uh, that's definitely not what the beta is for.

  • 11.02.2009 3:03 PM PDT
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Posted by: urk
Posted by: Iceberg Halo3
I know bungie worked hard on their network code, or so they claim, but I would like to see dedicated servers for reach during the beta just to see how it goes. If it flops then switch back to peer to peer and re test, that is what a beta is for anyways.


Uh, that's definitely not what the beta is for.



I thought that's what the beta was for.

[Edited on 11.02.2009 3:06 PM PST]

  • 11.02.2009 3:05 PM PDT

GT= Frost1691
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Worst idea ever...http://www.bungie.net/Forums/posts.aspx?postID=8664824

Posted by: shoop da whoop
Posted by: urk
Posted by: Iceberg Halo3
I know bungie worked hard on their network code, or so they claim, but I would like to see dedicated servers for reach during the beta just to see how it goes. If it flops then switch back to peer to peer and re test, that is what a beta is for anyways.


Uh, that's definitely not what the beta is for.



I thought that's what the beta was for.
It's to test gameplay mechanics and stuff. It's not for testing a dedicated server system and then deciding to scrap it and start over with matchmaking.

  • 11.02.2009 3:11 PM PDT

i like me...

the beta is for testing MM on a large scale...and for letting the community find all the exploits that bungie missed. we, the community, are A holes and love to use these things to our advantage. im not sure how many exploits i saw get used in the halo 3 beta but there were quite a few. none of them made it into the final game however :)

edit: ZOMG BUNGY RESAWNS IN HALO RECH 4UMS??@? OMG!!!!

haha!

[Edited on 11.02.2009 3:21 PM PST]

  • 11.02.2009 3:14 PM PDT
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  • Exalted Heroic Member

....

I feel so overwhelmed with knowledge. You guys are awesome for knowing so much about the ins and outs of online gameplay mechanics. Damn I need alot to learn.

  • 11.02.2009 3:18 PM PDT

Only thing I know for certian about the last beta we had, they took out the save feature for the last game played by hitting X while in the post game lobby, they nerfed the Mine cause to many idiots walked over it and got betrayed. So really the only thing the beta is for is a huge stress test. I beleive that is what they said about Reach's beta that is coming up, its only for stress test purposes.

  • 11.03.2009 5:51 AM PDT