Halo: Reach Forum
This topic has moved here: Subject: Graphics Engine for Reach
  • Subject: Graphics Engine for Reach
Subject: Graphics Engine for Reach

While I enjoyed most of the graphics for Halo 3 the new game, Reach, has to excel in this department.

Look at some of the flagship titles now such as Modern Warfare 2, Batman, Forza and even games like Shadow Complex and Mirrors Edge have serious graphical flair and gameplay benefits from this.

Reach has to leverage some gameplay experience aspects from its graphics engine. By this I mean more destruction from gunfire, grenades, rockets etc. Especially when I am behind cover, a rocket hits, the cover remains unscathed yet I die.

This simply should not happen in Reach, acceptable in Halo 3 but not in Reach. How about slowly reducing cover or bases from scorpian shells, wraiths, rockets, grenades etc.

Realistic characters, look at the characters in Batman and Mirrors Edge. They are easily a level or two above Halo 3. Granted the games are in a couple of development cycles down the track and have had more time for getting used to the 360 coding etc.

While I agree for multiplayer the red and blue plus easy to distinguish colour palette aid gameplay and player identification of in game elements it does not need to be so drastic.

I would like to see a darker version of Halo with Reach. I am not talking about making things more violent or dismemberment etc. I just don't want to see catering to the younger audience and players new to the game once again.

Textures should also be a much higher resolution. Procedural textures like the multiplayer spartan models are excellent close up but map object textures leave a bit to be desired. Again check MW2 or Batman for reference of how far the texture detail and polygon count can be pushed on the 360.

Let us move into a more realistic Halo, such as MW2 and Batman. The level of fluidity and detail in those games should be the standards bar for Reach on the 360.

I expect Bungie to exceed expectations as they so often do but I want to be WOW'd this time around.

Discuss as you will.

[Edited on 11.04.2009 5:20 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2009 3:58 PM PDT

Bring Forth; the Banhammer

Where's my Mythic Member Status Bungie, eh?

I don't think you know what a flagship title is.

  • 11.04.2009 3:59 PM PDT

Please elaborate.

If you mean Halo 3 was a flaghip title to sell 360s initially then I understand how hard it is to pack everything in for a new console development. They did an outstanding job, I credit them that.

However Reach has all the time and development experience for the now pretty old 360 and should literally be the 'flagship title' for all 360 games. Reach should literally be in the top 3-5 games in every department of a game.

1. Graphics should be 9.5/10.

2. Sound should be 9.5/10.

3. Textures should be 9/10.

4. Realism and destructive enviroments should be at least 8/10.

5. Netcode should be 9/10.

6. Anti-cheating should be 9/10.

7. Enjoyment 9.5/10.

8. Replayability 9/10.

I could keep going but you get the point.

Posted by: Maverick gw
I don't think you know what a flagship title is.

  • 11.04.2009 4:05 PM PDT

ya ive played batman b4 for the 360 awesome graphics i would lov to see that in reach....i bet they will ..most likely

  • 11.04.2009 4:09 PM PDT

Bring Forth; the Banhammer

Where's my Mythic Member Status Bungie, eh?

A Flagship title is a title that is seen as the systems "big game" and is there is always only one. There can be good games sure, but they all have their "main game".

[Edited on 11.04.2009 4:12 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2009 4:10 PM PDT

(;3=

Posted by: Da Mr Evil
ya ive played batman b4 for the 360 awesome graphics i would lov to see that in reach....i bet they will ..most likely


batman was fun and the graphics were amazing (unreal engine)

  • 11.04.2009 4:13 PM PDT

but couldt they mak some thin lik batman graphics maybe better?

  • 11.04.2009 4:21 PM PDT

I agree, Bungie will have something special up their sleeves I'm sure.

Hell I've loved all their games so far.

Posted by: Da Mr Evil
ya ive played batman b4 for the 360 awesome graphics i would lov to see that in reach....i bet they will ..most likely

  • 11.04.2009 4:22 PM PDT

The character models are insane and the in game cut-scenes are just jaw dropping.

They still have awesome lighting, frame rate, number of characters on screen, physics, hit detection, projectiles etc.

I see no reasons that Reach cannot equal or surpass game quality like Batman or MW2.

I'd love to see the realism level of MW2 in Reach, less Alien missions/maps and more Alien's invade a real world style game.

Posted by: Josephson
batman was fun and the graphics were amazing (unreal engine)

  • 11.04.2009 4:25 PM PDT

Keep it Clean.

Bungie talked about racing games like Forza 3. They look pretty, but in reality, it's just a repeated surface. In games like Halo, they have hundreds of different textures throughout. But I'm sure the graphics, although not a very important factor for me, will be fantastic.

  • 11.04.2009 4:25 PM PDT

I'm not a graphics fanatic but I just want a very 'real feel' to Reach.

Playing the old COD4 or the new MW2 or new Batman produces that type of immersion to gameplay.

Halo has that immmersion level through pure gameplay, just imagine how sweet it would be to bring a higher level of realism to things.

Even take the flood cut-scene from Halo 1, that type of realism and immersion has not been present in Halo 3 too much.

Posted by: ArbiterThatPWNsU
Bungie talked about racing games like Forza 3. They look pretty, but in reality, it's just a repeated surface. In games like Halo, they have hundreds of different textures throughout. But I'm sure the graphics, although not a very important factor for me, will be fantastic.

  • 11.04.2009 4:31 PM PDT
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Selective destruction for certain surfaces and objects is entirely do-able. Deformable terrain is also possible, as it metal deformation on vehicles. Full destruction for buildings and other objects is quite a stretch though.

If you mean darker as in muting the color palette, I don't see why the colors should be muted; rather, they should be expanded to suit the moods of the darker portions of the game.

Oh, and about texture detail: I think Halo 3 suffered not from having poor textures, but a lack of anisotropic filtering which makes some of the really high resolution textures seem like a waste.

  • 11.04.2009 4:37 PM PDT

Keep it Clean.

Posted by: Oddley765
I'm not a graphics fanatic but I just want a very 'real feel' to Reach.

Playing the old COD4 or the new MW2 or new Batman produces that type of immersion to gameplay.

Halo has that immmersion level through pure gameplay, just imagine how sweet it would be to bring a higher level of realism to things.

Even take the flood cut-scene from Halo 1, that type of realism and immersion has not been present in Halo 3 too much.

Posted by: ArbiterThatPWNsU
Bungie talked about racing games like Forza 3. They look pretty, but in reality, it's just a repeated surface. In games like Halo, they have hundreds of different textures throughout. But I'm sure the graphics, although not a very important factor for me, will be fantastic.


Well I know you're not a fanatic, considering the graphics engine wasn't the only thing you brought up. And to pose an argument about the realism effect to Halo 3, take a close look at the scene in the middle of the final level of ODST. The movement is great. But there's also the downsides as you say. Like how dead bodies react to explosions and other abrupt movements.

  • 11.04.2009 4:43 PM PDT
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Herp-A-Derp

Halo Reach is using an AAA engine, so the graphics will be incredible.

[Edited on 11.04.2009 4:50 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2009 4:49 PM PDT

I'm not too fussed about taking down an entire building but the destructive environment and gameplay could use some updating, Halo 3 was a tad behind the times in this respect.

I'd also like to see the environment and splash damage detection updated to be more accurately reflected during gameplay. Such not being able to rocket underneath the bridge on high ground to kill the turret guy etc.

As for darker I do not mean to the extent of washed out colour like GOW2. Just not so 'toy like' that halo 3 went to. I want a more real metal look than a plastic look that Spartan & Brute models seem to have.

The textures are huge in number for Halo 3 but I think some of the objects could be higher resultion or procedural in source or in game rendering. As you point out.

Posted by: Anonymous101
Selective destruction for certain surfaces and objects is entirely do-able. Deformable terrain is also possible, as it metal deformation on vehicles. Full destruction for buildings and other objects is quite a stretch though.

If you mean darker as in muting the color palette, I don't see why the colors should be muted; rather, they should be expanded to suit the moods of the darker portions of the game.

Oh, and about texture detail: I think Halo 3 suffered not from having poor textures, but a lack of anisotropic filtering which makes some of the really high resolution textures seem like a waste.


[Edited on 11.04.2009 4:55 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2009 4:54 PM PDT

I agree ODST brings a more human and real feel to things. It was definitely a solid step fowrard in the direction I am proposing.

The Reach engine will hopefully deliver a more real graphical environment than the Halo3/ODST engine.

Posted by: ArbiterThatPWNsU
And to pose an argument about the realism effect to Halo 3, take a close look at the scene in the middle of the final level of ODST. The movement is great. But there's also the downsides as you say. Like how dead bodies react to explosions and other abrupt movements.

  • 11.04.2009 4:57 PM PDT

Sounds like a plan, I love it when a plan comes together.

Posted by: THE CABOOSINATOR
Halo Reach is using an AAA engine, so the graphics will be incredible.

  • 11.04.2009 4:58 PM PDT

Online ID: GriffGraff15

You mentioned the red and blue in multiplayer, what about having different team colors for different maps. or randomizing the team colors between 3 or 4 colors. just to mix it up, after 2 games Red vs Blue games are kind of boring

  • 11.04.2009 5:02 PM PDT

"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do."
-Benjamin Franklin

Posted by: THE CABOOSINATOR
Halo Reach is using an AAA engine, so the graphics will be incredible.
Almost nothing is known as of now what the capabilities of the "AAA engine" are so we can't be certain about that. I don't doubt Bungies ability to produce a respectable game engine though.

Also I would like to see more distructable enviroments.
Maybe not as much as Battlefield: Bad Company, even though I thought it worked very well for that game.

  • 11.04.2009 5:05 PM PDT

The A.I. probably has more to do with limited console resources than anything else. A.I. is fairly calculation intensive and often has quite limited resoures compared to other game engine elements such as graphics or sound or hit detection etc.

That said the A.I. could have some updating, but I'm sure they're doing all they can in that department.

I'd like to see less enemies with more graphics details and more A.I. with less bullet sponging on higher difficulty levels. It is annoying to have to use entire clips to kill one enemy then they use the same weapon and you die in like two shots.

Upgrading the A.I. on higher difficulty levels would help alleviate that.

Posted by: SinPkr
hell i would be happy if the A.I not even metion the graphics were improved. its terrible!

  • 11.04.2009 5:09 PM PDT
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LIGHTALY'S CHANNEL
"What is, is what is"

~LIGHTALY

Posted by: TruPayne75
Posted by: THE CABOOSINATOR
Halo Reach is using an AAA engine, so the graphics will be incredible.
Almost nothing is known as of now what the capabilities of the "AAA engine" are so we can't be certain about that. I don't doubt Bungies ability to produce a respectable game engine though.

Also I would like to see more distructable enviroments.
Maybe not as much as Battlefield: Bad Company, even though I thought it worked very well for that game.


That acctually by cool, and we need more GORE11111

  • 11.04.2009 5:09 PM PDT

They use the red and blue to easily distinguish team one from the other.

For example in COD you often have to take time to identify your ally or enemy. Halo sticks to just pure colour identification for that and it works very well.

I just don't think this has to be so obvious that you stick out like a sore thumb.

Some colour variation would work well in social but not for ranked I think.

Posted by: westpointusma15
You mentioned the red and blue in multiplayer, what about having different team colors for different maps. or randomizing the team colors between 3 or 4 colors. just to mix it up, after 2 games Red vs Blue games are kind of boring


[Edited on 11.04.2009 5:17 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2009 5:11 PM PDT

I agree Bungie have the talent and dedication to their craft to produce an amazing game engine.

I hope they can jam pack everything into the existing 360 limitations. Often Bungie choose game engine elements different to say the Unreal Engine which results in less 'real graphics'. However, the gameplay really delivers from Bungie.

I agree with more destructive environments that enhance gameplay, not just look pretty for the sake of it.

Posted by: TruPayne75
Almost nothing is known as of now what the capabilities of the "AAA engine" are so we can't be certain about that. I don't doubt Bungies ability to produce a respectable game engine though.

Also I would like to see more distructable enviroments.
Maybe not as much as Battlefield: Bad Company, even though I thought it worked very well for that game.


[Edited on 11.04.2009 5:16 PM PST]

  • 11.04.2009 5:14 PM PDT